View Full Version : Tanking Prioritizing What To Get First (ICC): A Rough Guide

12-24-2009, 04:38 PM
So I am writing this to kind of break down what to get first, and what is better than what in terms of plate tank gear. There are alot of options, and it looks to be that some are better than others. I wrote a few formulas to help calculate item values so as to help prioritize them better. If you are just interested in my summary skip to the bottom, if you want to check how I came to the conclusions...well the math is below, and so are the formulas I concocted. EHP stands for Effective Health Points and DR stands for Damage Reduction. I base most of my priorities on EH, damage come second to me, as that involves avoidance and generally makes a tank spikier to heal, however on certain encounters avoidance is favourable (Saurfang). When I refer to tier10 gear I am referring to the warrior gear, if you are a different class then you need to look at the stats on your tier and plug them into my formulas.

Disclaimer: I am not a math genius, so if my formulas look wrong, tell me so I can fix them. I didn't come up with all of the formulas (obviously), but the one for Total Avoidance etc I put together to simplify it (or try) for me. Also, I am a 10 man strict guild tank, so if you raid 25s your options are wider.

Also, the TA values seem off, there is something wrong with it, but they should give an okay outline at any rate.

I also assume that players are prioritizing gems as such to maximize EH:
1) If the socket bonus is +9 or +12 stam, gem for it:
-Yellow Sockets Def/Stam
-Red Sockets Dodge/Stam
-Blue Sockets Stam
2) If the socket bonus isn't +9 or +12 stam, skip it and gem full stam.
3) If you are under 20% dodge, gem for parry instead, as it will benefit you more in reds than dodge (ICC debuff), but this only applies if you are meeting a set bonus as stated above.

*socket bonus unknown, gemming will vary
**EHP values are for warriors only; subtract 21.85 for paladins and add
38.38 for druids.
***DR for warriors only; add 4.31 for paladins and subtract 7.31 for druids


Block Value Formula: BV_from_Gear + STR/2 - 10 = BV

+1 def = 0.04% to Dodge, Parry and Miss

Dodge Rating Conversion Dr/45.25 = D%

Parry Rating Conversion Pr/48.25 = P%

Total Avoidance Formula: 3(Def*0.0004) + Dr/45.25 + Pr/45.28 = TA
where Def is Defense Rating, Dr is Dodge Rating, Pr is Parry rating and TA is Total Avoidance


Veincrusher Gauntlets:
+1579 AC
+76 Str
136+(30+30) = +196 Stam*
+71 Def
+55 Dodge
+62 Exp
(76/2) - 10 = +28 BV
3(71*0.0004) + (55/45.25) = 0.0852 + 1.22 = 1.31TA
----Total EHP: 2418.56**
----Total DR: 18.88***

Gauntlets of the Kraken (Badge):
+2308 AC
+120 Str
157+(15+15+9) = 196 Stam
+63+(10) = +73 Def
+63 Parry
(120/2) - 10 = +50 BV
3(73*0.004) + (63/45.28) = 0.876 + 1.39 = 2.27TA
----Total EHP: 2543.19**
----Total DR: 22.76***

Tier10 Gloves:
+1579 AC
+81 Str
148+(30) = +178 Stam
+71 Def
+63 Dodge
+54 Hit
(81/2) - 10 = +30.5 BV
3(71*0.004) + (63/45.25) = 0.852 + 1.39 = 2.24TA
----Total EHP: 2202.61**
----Total DR: 19.64***


Ironrope Belt of Ymirjar:
+1421 AC
+81 Str
136+(30+30+9) = +205 Stam
+76 Def
+46 Parry
+54 Hit
(81/2) - 10 = +30.5BV
3(76*0.004) + (46/45.28) = 0.304 + 1.02 = 1.32TA
----Total EHP: 2509.13**
----Total DR: 18.18***

Verdigris Chain Belt(Badge):
+2143 AC
157+(15+30+9) = +211 Stam
+120 Str
+63 Parry
+63 Def
(120/2) - 10 = +50BV
3(63*0.004) + (63/45.28) = 0.756 + 1.39 =2.15TA
----Total EHP: 2709.18**
----Total DR: 21.99***


Deathforged Legplates:
+2210 AC
179+(15+30+15+12) = +251 Stam
+109 Str
96+(10) = +106 Def
96+(10) = +106 Dodge
+49 Exp
(109/2) - 10 = +44.5BV
3(106*0.004) + (106/45.25) = 1.27 + 2.34 = 3.61TA
----Total EHP: 3215.41**
----Total DR: 23.42***

Tier10 Pants:
+2210 AC
191+(15+30+9) = +245 Stam
+109 Str
80+(10) = +90 Def
+96 Dodge
+73 Exp
(109/2) - 10 = +44.5BV
3(90*0.004) + (96/45.25) = 1.08 + 2.12 = 3.2TA
----Total EHP: 3139.89**
----Total DR: 23.10***


Ghoul Commander's Cuirass:
+2526 AC
179(+30+30+30) = +269 Stam
+144 Str
+81 Def
+42 Dodge
+76 Parry
(144/2) - 10 = +62BV
3(81*0.004) + (42/45.25) + (76/45.28) = 0.972 + 0.93 + 1.78 = 3.68TA
----Total EHP: 3522.10**
----Total DR: 24.74***

Cataclysmic Chestguard(Badges):
+3817 AC
207(+15+30+15+12) = +279 Stam
+123 Str
108+(10) = +118 Def
+(10) Dodge
+82 Exp
(123/2) - 10 = +51.5BV
3(118*0.004) + (10/45.25) = 1.42 + 0.22 = 1.62TA
----Total EHP: 3881.67**
----Total DR: 27.98***

Tier10 Chest:
+2526 AC
191+(15+30+9) = +245 Stam
+144 Str
+76 Def
68+(10) = +78 Dodge
+68 Parry
(144/2) - 10 = +62BV
3(76*0.004) + (78/45.25) + (68/45.28) = 0.912 + 1.72 + 1.50 = 4.13TA
----Total EHP: 3214.94**
----Total DR: 25.09***


Cloak of Many Skins:
+169 AC
+72 Str
108+(30) = +138 Stam
+45 Def
37+(4) = +41 Dodge
+42 Parry
(72/2) - 10 = +26BV
3(45*0.004) + (41/45.25) + (42/45.28) = 0.54 + 0.91 + 0.93 = 2.38TA
----Total EHP:1578.09**
----Total DR: 13.03***

Sentinel's Winter Cloak:
+737 AC
124(+30) = +154 Stam
+90 Str
+48 Def
+48 Dodge
(90/2) - 10 = +35BV
3(48*0.004) + (48/45.25) = 0.19 + 1.06 = 1.25TA
----Total EHP: 1827.53**
----Total DR: 14.90***


Spaulders of the Blood Princess:
+1894 AC
136+(30+30) = +196 Stam*
+74 Str
+77 Def
+45 Parry
+66 Hit
(74/2) - 10 = +27BV
3(77*0.004) + (45/45.28) = 0.92 + 0.99 = 1.91TA
----Total EHP: 2459.15**
----Total DR: 20.74***

Tier10 Shoulders:
+1894 AC
149(+30) = +179 Stam
+107 Str
+56 Def
+48 Dodge
+56 Parry
(107/2) - 10 = +43.5BV
3(56*0.004) + (48/45.25) + (56/45.28) = 0.67 + 1.06 + 1.24 = 2.97TA
----Total EHP: 2269.17**
----Total DR: 21.60***


Badge Gloves
Badge Belt
Tier 10 Pants (expertise)
Badge Chest (leaps and bounds)

The way I would prioritize buying for maximum efficiency is as follows.

I would first, get the trinket from badges, it is far better than anything else you will find in 10 man, and most 25 mans as well. After that, I would say get the tier 10 helm.This is because, there is no helm from either badges or out of ICC, so this works towards your 2 piece set bonus as well as providing you with an upgrade you won't get elsewhere. Next I would recommend the cloak, it costs 50 badges, and will probably be your next best stat upgrade vs. cost. Especially for me, as I am using a shitty Uld cloak. After that, really I would just get what costs the least; so the order would go something like Badge Belt, Badge Gloves, Tier10 Legs(2 piece bonus), Badge Chest. This way, items might drop out of ICC that you can use until you get enough badges to buy them, since there are comparable item drops!

I choose to skip the set bonuses for so long (for warriors) because, maximizing threat won't be as big of a problem until hardmodes, and as such, the two piece won't really be worth it until later, meaning you should go for the larger upgrades in terms of EHP. Getting the legs second last nets you lots of threat,
as well as time for other pieces to drop that you can use in the mean time.\

Hope this helps some :O

12-24-2009, 05:42 PM
Cool breakdown, you might want to add Pillars of Might though. They are BiS for EHP.

Also, you don't really provide a reason for getting the trinket and you neglect these two items:
Unidentifiable Organ - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50341)
and the heroic version: Unidentifiable Organ - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50344)
And the second item:Sindragosa's Flawless Fang - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50361) and heroic version Sindragosa's Flawless Fang - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50364)

The unidentifiable organ is leaps and bounds better at full stacks, which will probably have a very high uptime, and will be better than the badge trinket at just 1 or 2 stacks (the non-heroic version). The heroic version is on par with the skeleton key with no stacks.

The Sindragosa's Flawless Fang is also a very exceptional trinket that will probably find many uses, and is arguably better than the badge trinket for most scenarios.

I also believe that the 258 Jug's Vit is superior to the skeleton key because of the on use. I think overall if you're using glyph of indom or dual Jug's, the stat upgrade from the skeleton key is small enough that it doesn't warrant acquisition until there is nothing else you can spend your badges on.

As far as the helm goes, you also neglected Broken Ram Skull Helm - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=49986), which is on par with the T10 helm.

Other than that, very good guide. I really like the breakdown of both EHP and total DR.

You also might add the stipulation that it depends on your current gear. For example, since I have the 258 LJ cloak, the badge cloak is a smaller upgrade for me than the gloves, chest, and belt.

12-24-2009, 06:17 PM
Yah, I more or less just did it for myself, and realized that it could actually be useful for others. I don't mention the other trinkets because I would use the Organ along with the Key. In my disclaimer I mention that this is aimed generally at a 10 man strict guild, as thats what I currently tank for. However, it wouldn't be too hard to add more items for 25 if there was enough interest. I neglected to add crafted stuff so far as well, because all that calculating hurt my head.

And yeh, of course it depends on current gear. That priority is close to what I would use, but not necessarily others, although it shows the actual worth of the tier compared to other gear, which is what I really needed to see.

I also want to add that cumulatively with no buying, the Primordial Saronite will cost 184 badges alone to make the Pillars, that may deter some more casual players or people who are not wanting to wait. Personally I will go with the Saurfang legs until I get the Pillars, and get my 2 piece elsewhere (gloves perhaps, or something with expertise).

12-24-2009, 08:10 PM
Oh, I assumed 25 man gear was free game since you listed the 25 man T10 gear stats.

12-24-2009, 08:13 PM
I listed the ilevel 251 tier gear. That is the first one you can get, 10 or 25 man.

12-24-2009, 08:18 PM
oh, whoops, okay. my b

12-24-2009, 08:19 PM
Hehe, no worries. Any other nitpicks Agg? I'd love to improve this and make it more useable if possible to people.

12-24-2009, 08:23 PM
nope not really, if it's a 10M focus then it looks pretty dang solid (I accidentally skimmed over that line the first time I read it =/ )

12-24-2009, 08:24 PM
It is 10m focus currently, I would expand it if more people wanted a solid list. Took a good chunk out of my afternoon working out how to do it most efficiently with the formulas, so far it worked out well.

12-24-2009, 09:11 PM
Other thoughts for ya:

At what level of HP scaling will the proc from the 4 piece outweigh the stat losses from offset gear. Because obviously as your health increase, the amount that Bloodrage would absorb would also increase, meaning it would not just be one hit absorbed, but possible 2 or 3.

12-24-2009, 10:18 PM
the scaling won't be good enough to account for more than 2 hits since the 4pc is only 20%. At 50k HP you absorb 10k dmg, at 60k hp you absorb 12k damage. Really I think it'll end up being that you just absorb more of a single hit.

Really it comes down to "is another [kind of weak] cooldown needed?"

Imo, the answer is no, but time will tell, so therefore I'm going offset first, then T10 4pc after everyone else has what they want and I have free frost emblems.

12-25-2009, 12:20 AM
I wanted to bring up something else to consider amongst all the other variables; gemming red slots for expertise/stam instead of dodge/stam as an alternate. At this Tier level the stats are more spread out so gemming will be needed to complete minimums and meet soft caps. Still won't recommend hit gemming, cause Taunt DR isn't the issue anymore but expertise might become one.

For example, look at the leg slot. The only T10 set piece with expertise are the legs. If you go the 4 piece minus legs to get the crafted high armor ones you have no expertise. The comparative Deathbringer legs have much lower expertise than the common dropped Feverish types from last Tier. The Marrowgar dropped ones have hit.

I know there is still more gear to be discovered so lets hope for some more options like rings to give us more flexibility. Nice start on the list so far.

12-25-2009, 01:41 AM
agi/stam is just as acceptable for warriors as it is for paladins imo, too.

12-25-2009, 08:57 AM
To anyone that is good at math, is my Total Avoidance Formula acceptable? I wasn't sure if it should be 0.0004 or 0.04%, generally you convert the percent to a decimal but since we are dealing with a percent answer I am unsure. Regardless it won't make too much of a difference in comparing the items, but the actual value of DR would be skewed.

12-25-2009, 09:01 AM
Warriors get less out of agility than paladins, that's why you see very few warriors using agility gems.

12-25-2009, 09:05 AM
I would rather just gem avoidance for reds, or expertise, the agility isn't near as worth it in my honest opinion, it is useful, but straight dodge gives more back to stats. Threat really isn't a problem, so the extra crit from Agi, and whatever else is hardly going to make up for the avoidance loss. But regardless, gemming is up to the person generally, but they will have to tweak the list....gear is always relative to the encounter.

My gem assumption list is basing gems off of best survivability possible. If you are aiming for a threat set, this list is really not for you, but as this is a new raid, survivability is best for progression tanking and that is what I made this list for.

12-25-2009, 11:41 AM
Agi also gives armor though. Yes, it's not as much dodge, but it is extra mitigation. I still think for warriors Agi is worth it, even if it's not as good as it is for pallies.

01-01-2010, 08:10 PM
I also assume that players are prioritizing gems as such to maximize EH:
1) If the socket bonus is +9 or +12 stam, gem for it:
-Yellow Sockets Def/Stam
-Red Sockets Dodge/Stam
-Blue Sockets Stam
2) If the socket bonus isn't +9 or +12 stam, skip it and gem full stam.

Your gemming rule has a flaw. What you gem does not only depend on the bonus, but also on the number of non-blue sockets required to get it. Example: it is better to to take a +6 stamina bonus for a single red socket than taking a +9 stamina bonus for a red and a yellow socket like the one on Gauntlets of the Kraken. In the end you are always trading x stamina for y avoidance, just add it up and compare.

01-02-2010, 02:41 AM
I'm pretty sure he means for single 1 hybrid gem bonuses.

01-02-2010, 06:34 AM
I'm pretty sure he means for single 1 hybrid gem bonuses.

Just check the item calculations then.

01-02-2010, 10:33 AM
I may have screwed the calcs up. The way it should be is:

If an item has a +9 or +12 stam bonus and 2 sockets, gem for the bonus. If an item has all different colored slots, and a +9 or +12 bonus, gem full stam. If an item has 2 same color slots and 1 off color, gem for the +9 or +12 stam bonus.

If the bonus isn't +9 or +12 stam, gem full stam, ignore the bonus.

Thanks for pointing that out, I missed that. Agg's assumption was correct, but I had made a mistake.

01-04-2010, 08:05 AM
The unidentifiable organ is leaps and bounds better at full stacks, which will probably have a very high uptime, and will be better than the badge trinket at just 1 or 2 stacks (the non-heroic version). The heroic version is on par with the skeleton key with no stacks.

Not going to delve into the whole gem matching argument... ;) However...

While that trinket is going to be on the 'BiS' lists of almost every tank, I wouldn't be too optimistic about the proc uptime. Due to the 60% trigger rate and the fact that avoidance will likely not trigger it (we will find out soon, I guess!) the average stack size is actually quite on the lower side of things.

For the average boss in ICC, I have been seeing the probabilistic uptime math on this returning in the range of 3-4 stacks, on average. However, this will vary heavily based on your avoidance rate and the swing speed of the boss. With the current duration and chances to proc, it is actually very easy for the buff to fall off unless it procs from avoided attacks as well.

It is still probably one of the best trinkets out there for both EH and survival time, however it only slightly beats the static 228 trinkets in terms of raw EH.

Personally, I intend on using Heroic Satrina's + Unidentifiable Organ until the heroic trinkets as I feel that use effect on Satrina's is much stronger than that of the ICC Stamina trinkets.

(I would also personally never gem Agility for a Warrior, although Agility would be a very nice splash stat to have on gear if Blizzard gave it to us. It's not worth thinking in terms of EH for matching reds--you match reds primarily, even in the case of Agility, to gain avoidance/survival time. 10 Dodge Rating is generaly about 30-40% more effective than 10 Agility in terms of extending survival time, which is the main purpose of avoidance gemmings. If you want EH, just toss in the Solid, the Armor from Agility is just too minor to make a big difference.

For Paladins, however, things aren't quite so clear. 10 Agility actually provides a slightly higher survival/burst time than 10 Dodge Rating, in addition to the slight amounts of EH bias. Thus, I would actually be fairly inclined to use Agility/Stamina gems in applicable sockets for Paladins.)