View Full Version : Tanking Why is my guild failing??
12-22-2009, 11:46 PM
A couple of real life friends and I just started our own guild on Maelstrom and we've been trying to raid for a few days now, mostly Ony, Maly, and Ulduar, as well as heroic spam. We constantly fail at PvE. We did an Onyxia tonight that we spent two hours wiping on. (we had 2 warrior tanks, 3 druids, 3 palys, a rogue, and a lock.) We spent all last night failing on Malygos, and we usually don't get through a night of heroic spam without wiping at least once. The problem is that everyone in the guild has a 2k+ gear score and has successfully done all of the content that we failed on, on multiple occasions. I could just use some advice and will answer any questions that will help me get the advice I need. Thanks.
12-22-2009, 11:51 PM
Perhaps a little more information would help.
An armory link to the guild would be nice, as well as a few hints as to what roles people were doing.
(Where do you get the gear score, by the way? I used to have a silly addon for that, but for that 2k means freshly dinged 80.)
12-23-2009, 02:27 AM
i have the same issue with my guild. alot of us are around 2500 wow heroes score well gemmed enchanted etc and have all done the content before
i think it takes time to gel and work as a team so the main thing is for everyone to keep coming back and trying again rather than giving up.
also are you using vent?
a discussion before a fight to make sure everyone knows exactly what there job is and someone shouting when whelps appear etc can make things run a lot more smoothly
Synergy. a funny word for a real problem. People may be good players, but meshing together and covering for one another failings is what often makes a group work. be willing to admit your mistakes and actively pursue how to correct them. this is the key to making a raid team work.
12-23-2009, 04:00 AM
justa quick question, are the druids in cat form, heals or caster dps? I can imagine with only 1 caster on Onyxia it can take quite a while to get into phase 3. Same thing goes for Malygos, it will take you a lot longer to get into phase 3.
12-23-2009, 09:23 AM
I was going to ask that as well Ryoku. Aside from learning to play together, you need to have a solid understanding of what your group requires and what the fights require.
Who is leading the raids? Is he/she a good leader, does he/she know all the classes strengths? Does he/she know the fights inside and out? Is he/she directing people or just hoping everyone else knows what to do?
It's tough to be the Raid leader, there is a lot more to it than just inviting people to group and passing out loot. ;)
12-23-2009, 10:24 AM
Would love to have a wow-heroes link to your guild to look at their gear.
Couple things I've found that help:
- We do a post-raid thread in our guild forums to talk about what we think went well / wrong, how to solve issues, etc etc - Works well in getting everyone talking about stuff
- Are people having fun chatting in vent? I know my guild does a lot better on raid night if we keep it light and the jokes aplenty.
- Are there some who are hurrying the attempts? Our guild does NOTICABLY worse when someone is rushing everyone 'GO GO GO PULL TRASH HURRY OMG LETS GO GUYS!'. Mute that bastard, and watch the bosses drop! hehe
- Also your raid make up is pretty linear. You should mix the classes up a bit more. A mage would help. Shammy for heroism/lust. Spriest for great mana regen. Holy priest for awesome AoE heals.
12-23-2009, 10:53 AM
80% of your raid is only 3 classes. This drastically increases any particular weakness you may have since you do not have a well balanced class mix to cover for any one classes short-comings.
Your AE ability is fairly lacking. This is magnified on fights like Onyixa where you have 2 Tanks, which typically have to work harder on AE aggro, handling the whelps. I scrolled through your guild, and in terms of AE you at most have a Warlock, a Rogue and maybe a Druid (If that druid raids as Balance). Assuming you get all the Whelps down, you then have both tanks and all your melee DPS standing around unable to hit Ony until the next lair guard spawns, while the Lock and maybe a Druid are the only things that can really hurt Ony while she's air-born. Because of this there is a good chance that 'something' will go wrong during the extended time she spends in the air.
On fights like Malygos, You may have issues with the Sparks, and in particular in taking advantage of the Sparks if you kill them before they reach Maly. This will require your tank attempting to move Malygos closer to the sparks in some cases because otherwise your melee heavy guild can't benefit from the bonus.
None of your healers can provide you with Inspiration or Anscestiral Fortitude. Your Ret Pallies are basically the best chance at any magic debuff being removed, but they have to actually acknowledge and handle that. You have no 'burst' AE healing like Chain Heal or Circle of Healing / Prayer of Healing. For Maly's Vortex's you are relying on Wild Growth, as an example.
You also run into issues on loot where 30% of your raid is rolling on plate DPS, and 30% is rolling on any spellpower leather. Meanwhile, any melee leather automatically goes to the rogue, and any cloth at all goes to the Warlock.
Dispite having a melee centric raid makeup, you likely lack the offensive buffs to really maximize it. You do not have Windfury, Heroism, Strength of Earth, Horn of Winter, Trueshot Aura and so forth.
In general, the lack of class diversification really hampers what your raid is capable of. If you where doing 25 mans, it'd be easier because you'd have a chance to bring in other classes for those other 15 slots and get a better buff / debuff / skill mix going. As it stands now however, certain events are really going to punish you simply due to your raid makeup.
12-23-2009, 11:12 AM
Hunter has a huge bag of tricks as well.
12-23-2009, 11:38 AM
Also, you need to objectively look at exactly what's causing the failures. DPS issues? Tank deaths? People dying to stupid stuff? People not knowing fight mechanics? These are all typical causes of wipes and are all preventable. A key to successful raiding is being able to identify problems and gameplan ways to fix those issues.