View Full Version : Death Knight Bryntroll, the Bone Arbiter

12-17-2009, 03:53 PM
So I have been looking into this weapon with using it as a dk tank in mind, the following is other peoples reports and testing:

By Tryptomine (http://www.wowhead.com/?user=Tryptomine)-

1. The proc is Shadow damage. As such it can benefit from shadow enhancements, especially Ebon Plague. My average drain came to about 2.9k as an Unholy DK.

2. There is NO internal CD on the proc. Or if so, it is less then 2.7 seconds, since I watched it go off on two consecutive melee swings.

3. It is about a 15% proc rate. This number determined by just standing and auto attacking a dummy for a solid half hour.

4. It DOES proc off of skills When going all out, the proc occurred roughly twice as often for me (procing roughly the same number of times as BCB, which is 30% chance on melee swing with a small internal CD), going so high as 45 procs within 100 melee swings. It seems to be quite random as the numbers tend to vary wildly though. While I haven't tested enough to prove it, I highly suspect it can only proc off of physical hits (it only makes sense).

5. The proc CANNOT crit. Not once did it ever crit for me in my extensive testing.

6. The proc CAN miss. It appears to be regarded the same as any other spell and can miss depending on your spell hit or be partially resisted.

7. Spell power does not increase the proc's damage. Can't be as sure with this one, since the only spell power I could get was a 46 spell power food, but I found absolutely no noticeable increase in the proc's damage after eating.

By axhawk (http://www.wowhead.com/?user=axhawk)-

The theorycrafting on this potent weapon is still rather sparse, so I spent several hours testing the limits of the proc and it's dps contribution. First off, the basics:

The 264 version proc has an average damage of 2250, while the 277 version has an average of 2538.
The damage does not scale with any character stats (though the dps does, more on that below).
The damage does scale with any percentage damage increases that affect spell damage, such as Avenging Wrath, Curse of Elements, Blood Presence, etc.
The drain can proc off of any weapon attack, as well as some odd events such as applying or refreshing effects such as deathknight diseases or the paladin talent Righteous Vengeance. These odd events do have some requirements though. The drain can proc off of the refreshing of some DoTs or debuffs so long as the character is within melee range of and facing the target for the drain. Specific to the deathknight class, the drain can proc off of the disease application of Icy Touch (assuming you are in melee range), can double-proc off Plague Strike (the strike and the disease application), and on each target that is in melee range and in front of you from Pestilence.
The drain has a base proc rate of 2 procs-per-minute, or 11.3333% chance per swing, and has no internal cooldown.
The drain can proc multiple times per attack, provided there's are more than one weapon event for the attack. For example, the drain can multi-proc off the following:
- On any or all of the multiple targets of Cleave, Whirlwind, Divine Storm, Heart Strike, or Sweeping Strikes.
- From a melee (or special) and it's subsequent seal proc, Blood-Caked Blade proc, or Windfury proc.
- From both the physical and shadow portions of Scourge Strike.
The drain can not proc from any spells, excluding the odd events mentioned above.
The drain is incapable of critting and functions on the spell hit table. However, it doesn't seem to be resistible.

Now, with a 2 PPM baseline, the weapon will deal 2 procs a minute before any waste or special attacks or talents are factored in, giving it a minimum dps of 75. In practice, the proc will usually provide between 200 and 400 dps, depending on the character's haste rating, spec and rotation (and therefore number of procable attacks per second), spell hit chance, and +damage buffs present. A good estimate is that it will provide approximately 4-8% of a character's dps. For many classes, this means the proc is worth the equivalent of between 400 and 800 additional attack power, though it's place on the best-in-slot list is strongly dependent class, spec, haste rating, and rotation. In general is can be assumed to be near the top of the list, however, as the proc itself provides a fairly respectable amount of dps while also making it easier for the healers to keep you alive through miscellaneous raid damage.
now what im wondering is how good is this weapon for a blood dk tank. does the proc give threat? is it effected by vamp blood? i did find a WoL report froma blood dk tank on EJ that may help: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis (http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rz3cpicsgdbeb67n/details/74/?s=6553&e=6872)

sorry if there is already a discussion on this here, i could not find it if there is.

12-18-2009, 06:30 AM
I can tell you the heal will be subject to increase by Vamp Blood. Vamp Blood affects incoming healing regardless of source (it doesn't filter by source, by design).

The healing may or may not give threat, that's not universal. Since it does damage on the "drain" that will certainly do threat, but I don't know that we'll double-dip. In fact, I'd expect that the effect will be designed not to get both damage and healing threat.

Beyond that I can't help you until I get that bad boy for myself. I would not turn it down, that is for sure.

12-18-2009, 06:43 AM
The proc does give threat however it does not proc often and most likely not save your life with tanking. I would suggest using a normal weapon as even the base stam on this weapon is less then that of a normal 2H axe of the same ILvL

But, it is a great dps weapon. The proc normally makes up 4-8% of a classes dps, ret pally's and DK's tend to benefit from it more then that also.

12-18-2009, 06:46 AM
The proc represents 4-8% of their dps?!?!

That's pretty huge!

12-18-2009, 06:49 AM
The proc represents 4-8% of their dps?!?!

That's pretty huge!

and thats me as a fury warrior. Ret pallys can expect to see 7-10% of their damage coming from the proc.

also. its affected by % damage increases like on twins, the proc can hit for almost 9k.

it can be reflected on lady deathwhisper adds also.

12-18-2009, 06:54 AM
Ouchie. Hmmm, that seems like a gigantic value for a proc to add, as the weapon damage will certainly not drop that much in loss of stat values, not remotely.

12-18-2009, 12:50 PM
from the info you have given i would say its better for dps and the polearm would be better suited as BiS for tanking before shadowmourne?

12-18-2009, 01:14 PM
This wep is Bis pre-shadows edge at which point shadows edge + bryntroll is going to be a sick combo

12-18-2009, 02:10 PM
This wep is Bis pre-shadows edge at which point shadows edge + bryntroll is going to be a sick combo

do you mean for tanking? i thought the amour and stats of bloodfall would be bete then this before shadows edge

12-18-2009, 02:14 PM
This wep is Bis pre-shadows edge at which point shadows edge + bryntroll is going to be a sick combo

Bryntroll in your offhand period provides less dps then justice bringer/duel bladed butcher.

when shadows edge is available the best combo will be shadows edge/duel bladed butcher, it just doesnt proc enough to be in your off hand

12-19-2009, 02:49 AM
Yeah I can confirm it's about 4% of total dmg so is pretty good, I guess it would be a decent tanking weapon with a couple of stam gems in it.
The funny thing is I was draining life from myself heartstriking reflecting adds on Deathwhisper :)

12-19-2009, 02:54 AM
Thanks vlad, I was just posting on the dk forums about this and your post helped me find the thread quickly :D

12-19-2009, 04:21 PM
Bryntroll is probably the worst overall tanking weapon in the zone. It is outclassed by Fleshrender and Grievance already, and those are 258 loot. Not sure where this "BiS" business is coming from... that honor would have to go to Cryptmaker.
Bloodfall isn't even that great either, again already outclasses by Fleshrender for overall tanking value and stats.

12-20-2009, 02:12 AM
Byntroll was @ 8.4% of my DPS done in a 25 ToGC, right below my melee damage at 8.6% acccording to my guilds world of logs parse. It was a pretty heafty increase in my TPS due to that and its actually a pretty big melee increase over my non-heroic dual blade butcher.

12-20-2009, 11:25 AM
I'm currently using Bryn'troll and very happy with it so far. On the average boss fight the proc will account for roughly 5-6% of my total damage on average. I have seen absolutely no decrease in threat generation, if anything its gone up, right along with my leet tank DPS.

Definitely a weapon worth getting for any DK tank.

12-20-2009, 11:28 AM
Thanks Kanzer! We've had one dorp so far and it went to a fury warrior who is also VERY happy about it. Love this weapon and I'm hoping I can grab it on our alt-25man this upcoming xmas week!

12-20-2009, 11:38 AM
The only thing I'd be careful of for fury warriors in line for Shadowmourne... According to the fury warrior in my guild, once you get Shadow's Edge Bryntroll will pretty much become worthless to you, as it doesn't proc nearly enough in the off-hand to be worth it and Shadow's Edge definitely trumps it for the main hand.

12-20-2009, 11:43 AM
I will definitely forward this insight. At the moment our leading candidate for Shadowmourne is a DK who has about 95% attendance, is constantly our top DPS, and is rocking the S7 axe.

Thank you again.

12-23-2009, 04:41 PM
The only thing I'd be careful of for fury warriors in line for Shadowmourne... According to the fury warrior in my guild, once you get Shadow's Edge Bryntroll will pretty much become worthless to you, as it doesn't proc nearly enough in the off-hand to be worth it and Shadow's Edge definitely trumps it for the main hand.

What he says is true. it sucks in your offhand. But the DPS gain is very hard to put into a spread sheet. For some fights bryntroll would come out on top.

Fights where there is a % damage increase (twins, thad, ect) the bryntroll proc will be very very high (iv seen up to 9k on twins) and so it might be better to use then a weapon with just static stats on it.

12-24-2009, 03:43 AM
Bryntroll maybe good for tank but be aware that's it's a BiS weapon (exept for shadow's edge) for some classes (at least DK dps, both blood and unholy, and Pal vindic). So I would think about it before taking it from your DPS buddies. If you replace it a month later, be prepared for some rage ^^

12-28-2009, 01:08 AM
I have seen unholy dps do some pretty silly good self-healing with this thing. I'm itching to get my hands on one while i test unholy tanking. It would certainly make for quite a bit of giggles if i could self-heal (randomly, and certainly often overheal, but still self-healing) via this and weaving in death-strikes as threat allows. Assuming the proc rate wasn't abyssmal (and it doesn't seem so) this could be a great weapon choice for a lot of current and upcoming content.

12-28-2009, 02:26 PM
Our only other DK besides me is an Unholy DPS DK and he picked this up last week. Its accounting for anywhere around 5%-8% of his total damage.

Since nobody else wanted it, I'm going to be giving up my 10m Saurfang Axe and try this one out, to see if I notice a difference in threat, survivability, and so on, next time it drops.

01-07-2010, 03:14 PM
Disclaimer: I am a blood death knight tank wielding Bryntroll, The Bone Arbiter. I did two Target Dummy tests on the friendly neighborhood Highlord's Nemesis Trainer, both five minutes long.

The first trial, I just went through my rotation, full disease uptime, with no cooldowns such as Vampiric Blood or Hysteria. I did this behind the target, as to not be hindered by parries.

My top damage attacks were:
Ability # %of damage
1. Melee (85) 24.0%
2. Heart Strike (66) 23.8%
3. Death Strike (37) 15.6%
4. Death Coil (47) 10.9%
5. Drain Life (27) 10.3%
6. Blood Plague DoT (91) 5.2%
7. Frost Fever DoT (93) 5.1%
8. Plague Strike (17) 3.0%
9. Icy Touch (17) 2.0%

My Death Strikes heal for 6802. Overall, Death Strike healed for 251672.
My Drain Life ability hit for 26/27 times, the average being 2355 and the maximum being 2565. The complete damage for the Drain Life over the course of the fight was 61240 health stolen. This health stolen is approximately 24% of the total health generated with Death Strike.
Sorry this trial was crappy, since Drain Life didn't have a minimum due to missing.

My second trial I used my regular rotation, with full disease uptime, but including Vampiric Blood. I reapplied both it as soon as it came off cooldown each time.

My top damage attacks were:
Ability # %of damage
1. Melee (85) 24.5%
2. Heart Strike (54) 21.8%
3. Death Strike (39) 18.2%
4. Death Coil (40) 10.1%
5. Drain Life (16) 7.1%
6. Blood Plague DoT (93) 6.0%
7. Frost Fever DoT (91) 6.0%
8. Plague Strike (18) 3.7%
9. Icy Touch (19) 2.6%

My Death Strikes did a minimum of 6802, an average of 7989, and a maximum of 10560. Overall, Death Strike healed for 303569
My Drain Life ability hit for 16/16 times, the minimum being 1928, the average being 2306, and the maximum being 2572. The complete life stolen for the Drain Life was 36889. This is approximately 12% of the total health gained with Death Strike.
Although I did not have time for more trials, I may conduct more. The proc seems so random that testing with Vampiric blood is tricky. I will try it out again later. From what I can see, however, is that, if Vampiric Blood did affect it, it wasn't substantial. I will say that I have noticed an increase in threat with Bryntroll. The survivability issue is more difficult to observe though. I'll keep an eye on it.

01-09-2010, 04:01 PM
my main interest is how it effects your tps. You report a threat increase, what kind of numbers?

Is it more of a threat gain then say shadows edge?

01-10-2010, 08:57 PM
Alrighty. So I honestly haven't tanked very much with Bryntroll, having just gotten it last week. However, on a straight up tank and spank fight (10 Man Rotface), I did a consistent 9-11k TPS. I don't have Shadow's Edge to compare it to though. Using Bryntroll, I saw threat spikes while the proc would happen. Seems pretty darn interesting to tank with, to say the least.

01-20-2010, 12:41 PM
I have now tanked some ICC10 with bryntroll with blood spec, here is the log (http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-5486tfvsntzwyovk/details/3/).

as you can see, 50% of the healing was overhealed, I would not take this over saurfangs axe which has much better tanking stats.

01-20-2010, 01:05 PM
Well, the healing proc serves more for a threat boost than actual self-healing since it is random. That being said, i'd almost always take a stat weapon since the best EH gear tends to lack hit/expertise.