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View Full Version : Tanking Ashen Verdict tank ring proc



Regill
12-17-2009, 12:15 PM
So a friend of mine got himself the exalted ashen verdict ring (by spending far too much time farming rep). We've been looking over the proc rate and uptime of this:

Equip: When struck in combat has a chance of increasing your armor by 2400 for 10 sec.

I'm curious what other tanks are seeing with this ring. Because what I'm seeing is pretty bad... From kills in ICC, ToGC, and ToC, the ring appears to have between a 2% and 10% uptime (pulled directly from our WoL parses). Only 1 or 2 procs for entire encounters basically.

I'm reasonably certain the log site isn't bugged, my friend has confirmed that the ring procs very rarely, from watching for procs directly in game.

If this is normal for the ring, and he's not just highly unlucky, I have to question if the ring is bugged. A single proc for a 5 minute encounter is very nearly useless and I don't see why blizz would make it slow low intentionally. By comparison the similar Hyjal rep ring proc'd plenty often, easily once a minute, if not more.

What do you all think?

Bodasafa
12-17-2009, 12:42 PM
There's probably not a large data pool for this ring yet due to the amount of rep needed. Hopefully as we move further along there will be more data to compare. However the initial findings you present do raise concern.

Regill
12-17-2009, 12:49 PM
There's probably not a large data pool for this ring yet due to the amount of rep needed. Hopefully as we move further along there will be more data to compare. However the initial findings you present do raise concern.

Yeah I was hoping that asking here will find some more tanks who have the ring. The revered version has the proc too, and at least it appears to have a similar proc rate (not at all confirmed).

Eravian
12-17-2009, 01:06 PM
They may raise concern, but I wouldn't be too worried about it. The ring is still a very solid piece, even without the proc. Even if it procs rarely, the proc is just icing on the cake.

Surmaaja
12-17-2009, 01:55 PM
I got revered version of that ring and todays raids show 3-11% uptime for that, but there isnt any fight in icc that where you would be getting constantly hit so its hard to figure the real proc rate just yet.

steadymobn
12-17-2009, 05:37 PM
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis (http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/yvmom1b8h2b8ht41/)


22minutes 26 seconds of autoattacking thrym in zuldrak, with a few judgement of lights thrown in to stay alive



ring procced FOUR times,,, something seems really really broken to me


4 procs in 22minutes

gnumme
12-17-2009, 07:29 PM
Cleared 4 bosses tonight, 1,9% uptime.

I start thinking even exalted version of the ring is piece of shit: proc is awful, other stats aren't bad, but we can find almost equal stats in 264lvl rings from trash and normal mode bosses.

Aggathon
12-17-2009, 08:29 PM
They may raise concern, but I wouldn't be too worried about it. The ring is still a very solid piece, even without the proc. Even if it procs rarely, the proc is just icing on the cake.

I have to disagree, if the proc rate is low, this ring becomes very undesirable compared to what we can get. Compare the ilevel 245 Band of the Twin Valk'yr...

Band of the Twin Val'kyr - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=48027)

Only 10 less stamina, but has 532 STATIC armor, no hit, and slightly lower avoidance values. I would use this over the iLevel 277 (exalted) ring and definitely over the revered.

Devium's Eternally Cold Ring - Items - Sigrie (http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/50185/deviums-eternally-cold-ring/) is even better imo, I'd use that or the heroic version (or both) if I could.

Xenix
12-17-2009, 08:52 PM
55 minutes of getting hit ~7x per second in Stockades in this log (http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/1jm7nllu49va1dr6/log/). Note that this was getting hit 7x per second. I was getting attacked a bit more, but they missed a lot.

Results show a clear 60-second ICD and an abysmally low proc rate. With ~7 hits incoming per second the average time between ICD and proc was over 4 seconds, meaning the 3% listed on Wowhead is probably accurate and maybe even a bit high.

In short, the ring is nice if you want hit but the proc is absolutely terrible. If it had the low proc rate with no ICD or the ICD with a high proc rate, it would be good, but combining the two makes for an uptime of 5% or less for a standard boss with a 2-second swing timer and a tank with ~40% avoidance (like in ICC).

Hopefully Blizzard ups the proc rate or removes the ICD to make the proc actually useful.

Bowen
12-17-2009, 09:48 PM
I have been working myself into positions to farm more rep aside from normal planned raid gains, but the proc rate is very low, as you have pointed out the twins mier 10man hardmode ring is a more stable option which in my eyes compared with a 277 item is abit of a let down. And not to forget the damned hit rating on nearly every dam tanking piece.

swelt
12-18-2009, 05:17 AM
Given that this is a ring you can get without killing a single boss (if you have the patience) and certainly without doing any hard modes, just what were you expecting? Best in slot?

The stats are not bad, and the ring will serve as a useful piece in a balanced or threat set. Probably not in your Max EH set. I think the proc is just supposed to be icing on the cake, some 'cool factor', not the core feature of the ring. If you end up never using the ring for tanking, you can convert it into a DPS one for offspec.

Aggathon
12-18-2009, 06:48 AM
Given that this is a ring you can get without killing a single boss (if you have the patience) and certainly without doing any hard modes, just what were you expecting? Best in slot?


Yes b/c for the most part the Hyjal one was.

Eravian
12-18-2009, 07:29 AM
Hmm... forgot that this ring doesn't have any armor on it. That does make it less desirable, although it's still a good ring to have on hand while you wait for others to drop... especially since RNG can be rough sometimes.

Xianth
12-18-2009, 07:46 AM
I'm wondering if the ICD is an error, as a lot of items with procs that don't have an ICD usually have a ~2% proc rate.

Bodasafa
12-18-2009, 09:45 AM
Before ICC I used
Band of the Twin Val'kyr - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=48027#dropped-by)
Clutch of Fortification - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47731) (Since we have yet to kill anub hero 25) - Currently replaced the Clutch with the new rep ring.

However I am wondering if the armor on the Clutch would make it a better EH item than the anub hero ring and more relevant to this discussion better than the Rep Ring (due to the static armor).

Suicyco
12-18-2009, 09:50 AM
Just a question in regards to the proc, is it stackable with black heart procs giving essentially a 10K armor boost on a double proc? Or is the ICD so absurdly low that it wouldn't even be worth hoping for the rng luck?

Bowen
12-18-2009, 10:09 AM
I think you would have to be dam lucky to get it proc'ing at the same time.

Grymauch
12-18-2009, 10:28 AM
However I am wondering if the armor on the Clutch would make it a better EH item than the anub hero ring and more relevant to this discussion better than the Rep Ring (due to the static armor).

Clutch is definitely better than the Friendly ring for EH. Looks to me like its even better than the Revered ring. Only the socket in Exalted finally pushes it over Clutch for EH (though this is from eye-balling it, not number crunching).

craggan
12-19-2009, 05:23 AM
Don't forget the trash mobs ring with its 124 Stam + yellow socket and 60 Def/60 Dodge/38 Hit.

IMO, it is way better than the Ashen one.

It dropped yesterday as we were farming trash-mobs before the 1st boss... in ICC 10 ... Woot... I guess it's a bug that ilvl 264 item drops from Trash in ICC 10 ...

http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/50447

Alimea
12-20-2009, 04:06 AM
I've been told by my huntard friend that the dps rings proc is reliable and constant with what might seem like a 45sec ICD... I dont have access to that ring so I can't confirm those numbers.

It does seem little bit off that ~1.5% damage reduction from the gained armour would have been so unreliable.

And I do agree with the insane amount of hit on every other tanking piece the 264trash tank ring seems like a better choice (less hit), over the rep one.

If the rep ring is a filler, that you get after two weeks (a nice 251 if you dont have 10ToGC or 25Toc cleared) and then replace?... It would take hours (17+ maybe much more) of farming and weeks if not months of regular raiding to get to exalted and the proc and socket combo... if the proc is not "awesome" ... well I do agree it should be BiS and if not, at least a second best... I miss my Hyjal ring (I will be sad if this ring will be a Kara type ring)

Suicyco
12-20-2009, 12:05 PM
It dropped yesterday as we were farming trash-mobs before the 1st boss... in ICC 10 ... Woot... I guess it's a bug that ilvl 264 item drops from Trash in ICC 10 ...

Harbinger's Bone Band - Items - Sigrie (http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/50447)

Wow grats, we got item lvl 200 BOE caster shield drop off of 25 man trash on our way to Marrowgar. I can only guess it was a world drop as I gave it to our guild auctioneer without really giving a good look at it seeing caster stats on it.

creedprljm
01-12-2010, 06:02 PM
I notice a lot of people are attempting to track uptime in different heroics, however the highest uptime for the ring along with the new trinket "Unidentifiable Organ (http://ptr.wowhead.com/?item=50344)" should be in ICC with the 20% reduction to dodge. Since both are based on actually being struck by an attack, i would imagine the uptime on both to much higher in ICC then out of it.

Bodasafa
01-18-2010, 02:39 PM
Im wondering if the proc on this ring will change for better or worse with the announced PPM changes?


Changes to PPM procs
We changed the way PPM procs work to make sure many of the weapons and trinkets did their expected performance in Icecrown instead of proc'ing too much for some specs or classes or forcing players into unusual behavior to try and fish for the procs. This change also affected some older mechanics in the game too such as the Berserking enchant. For the most part the intent is that these systems all proc off of attacks and they are balanced with that assumption.

At this time we're happy with the damage that characters are now doing after these changes, though we'll continue to monitor and adjust damage overall and that includes the proc-based items.

Source (http://blue.mmo-champion.com/28/22418707360-ppm-behavior-nerf.html)

Thoughts?

Bashal
01-18-2010, 02:46 PM
They specifically mention weapons and trinkets. The ring is... well, it's a ring. Unless the statement is poorly worded, it doesn't sound to me like they are modifying the proc rate on the rings.

Airowird
01-18-2010, 02:58 PM
The PPM change does not affect the ring proc at all, simply because the ring is not based on PPM. Not to mention it has an ICD, which makes the proc 'immune' to the latest PPM change.

The PPM change is there to fix/nerf/balance (pick what you like) the differences between classes using procs and abilities other than the direct-control ones to gain a higher uptime than was originally intended. A Mutilate Rogue with Deadly Brews technicly had 3 extra chances to proc weapon procs when applying Deadly with his/her weapon (Deadly, Instant & Crippling applications). Or so the major outcry from Rogues on the forums seem to indicate, as I do not play one actively myself. (seriously though, how would you not see that getting tweaked?)

If anything, this only changes the value for Mongoose/Blade Ward, as those are tanking procs without ICD that happen when we attack, not the other way around.

Bodasafa
01-18-2010, 04:38 PM
Doh I completely missed that rings were not included. Wishful thinking I guess :D

Magnatitus
01-22-2010, 12:19 PM
I'm hoping Blizzard will fix this ring and make this ring like the Hyjal one back in the day.

Last night we did the Blood Prince Council fight and thought I would check the uptime on it. I was tanking Valanar so I (a prot warrior) was getting hit constantly throughout the entire fight - physical damage.

Uptime. 7.7%.

Fight time 6:30
From WoL's
Frostforged Defender (http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/od0pdzxfpmp2ln8f/spell/72414/?s=14811&e=15202) 3 30.0 7.7 % # (http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/od0pdzxfpmp2ln8f/details/1/?s=14811&e=15202#)

Crommi
01-24-2010, 11:02 AM
Seems very unpredictable, but Blood Princes fight is good place to check uptimes since you're being hit non-stop through the fight. Checked out logs from our 10man kill and ring did not proc at all.

deltagarrett
01-24-2010, 01:43 PM
From 7% to 11% here.

You can see our logs here: http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/detail/306664021#buffer

Not bad tbh. :)

Martie
01-24-2010, 02:06 PM
From 7% to 11% here.

You can see our logs here: http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/detail/306664021#buffer

Not bad tbh. :)

A 7% to 11% change in a single log doesn't mean they changed it - both are possible with the same proc chance.

Repartee
01-24-2010, 04:05 PM
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-byykr6k2bny21a8g/details/4/?s=5735&e=5915

Above link is to my 10 man Blood Princes kill. 3 minute fight with me tanking both Valanar and Taldaram.

It procced once. This only illuminates the absurdity of the low proc chance, since there is no way a tank would tank 2 bosses in the 25 man version.

They need to change the uptime on this --- would be fine if they did and lowered the armor proc.

Martie
01-24-2010, 04:26 PM
It'd be great if they turned it into an on-use ability, though they'd probably have to reduce it's potency or give it a once-per-fight cooldown.

I wouldn't say that a single tank can't tank both melee princes, though - even in 25man it doesn't seem undoable.

Davion
01-26-2010, 06:00 AM
Our Blood Prince kill log from 24.01.10 showed a 6.1% uptime (3 procs) over a 8m 14s fight with me tanking Taldaram the entire time.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/kfoq3o8rihjnci6c/details/22/?s=10205&e=10700

Gellor
01-26-2010, 09:41 AM
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-byykr6k2bny21a8g/details/4/?s=5735&e=5915

It procced once. This only illuminates the absurdity of the low proc chance, since there is no way a tank would tank 2 bosses in the 25 man version.



I did :D 6.6% uptime on armour proc.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-senmhahy3xn1p65z/sum/damageTaken/?s=5277&e=5585

Repartee
01-26-2010, 11:22 AM
I stand corrected! Sheesh Gellor, were you spiking at all? I spiked a couple times in 10 man tanking both --- not enough to proc Ardent Defender though.
Noticed you got one guardian spirit cast on you.

Seriously going to try to convince my raid to tank both tonight. Thanks. :-P

Proletaria
01-26-2010, 02:16 PM
5% uptime on queen kill in 10man, 7% uptime on our queen attempts in 25man last week.

Definitely banking this until it gets "looked at" a bit harder by the devs. I certainly don't need the hit. Then again, the str version of the dps ring comes out soon. Might as well swap versions of the ring and buff ye old offset, getting some use out of it in the mean-time.

Gellor
01-27-2010, 10:20 AM
Surprisingly it wasn't too bad. I got hte GS when one of my pally healers had to run from an empowered fire orb. Did the fight again last night, a one shot parse linked below. Surprisingly didn't take significantly more damage than the equally geared pally tanking Keleseth. I was taking 6584dps and the pally took 4749dps. According to WoL I spiked at 12484dps for max damage taken, and as little as 1kdps. reviewing the log it appears I didn't use Shield Wall, although I could of sworn I did. Don't recall coming close to death at all on the kill either.

PS: 3.6% uptime on ring this fight :(

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-so2ijbl5lugr7go2/sum/damageTaken/?s=6709&e=6988

Bashal
01-27-2010, 10:29 AM
Ok, so:

We have established the ring proc is terribad.

Next?

Airowird
01-28-2010, 07:10 AM
Ok, so:

We have established the ring proc is terribad.

Next?Is it [--|THIS|------------------] terribad or |THIS|--[--------------------------] bad?

Kazeyonoma
01-28-2010, 10:59 AM
It's still a pretty hefty Stam ring, along with nice defensive stats and some thrown in hit, it's probably not as good as armor rings on fights like Festergut or phase 3 Putricide, but it's definitely a swappable piece in and out on fights where you can spare some armor. Maybe...

Ragesane
01-29-2010, 05:26 PM
I exchanged it long ago for the dps version for my off spec fury set, that's what I think of this ring in it's current state :P.

Shakari
01-29-2010, 05:32 PM
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis (http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/yvmom1b8h2b8ht41/)


22minutes 26 seconds of autoattacking thrym in zuldrak, with a few judgement of lights thrown in to stay alive



ring procced FOUR times,,, something seems really really broken to me


4 procs in 22minutes

problem is you need to get hit for the chance of a proc so fighting something not lvl 83 ie boss lvl is going to make it even harder for you to be hit.

Still it does seem a very weak proc :/