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View Full Version : Warrior 3.3 Arms vs Fury & Improving



Novekk
12-14-2009, 03:55 AM
Hey guys, I'm really needing advice! Armory will probably show my tanking gear since I'm usually tanking but to see my gear, go to;

WoW Heroes - World of Warcraft PvE character info & ratings (http://wow-heroes.com/)

US | Mannoroth | Novekk

After you click search you can click on Arms and it'll take you to my Arms gear/spec.

I was wondering if Fury still beats Arms and if so, by how much? Atm I can pull a little over 5k (About 5.1 - 5.2) in 25 mans with flask/food buff and that just doesn't sound right.

I'm gemming for ArP but now I think it's time for me to start gemming Strenght because I'm working on getting Needle-Encrusted Scorpion from the last boss in Heroic FoS to replace my Coren's Chromium Coaster (84 crit with chance to proc 1k AP on crit).

Is Needle-Encrusted Scorpion superior to GT or MJR? If not, which of these two are better (GT or MJR)?

Also, am I doing the right thing to gem ArP? I don't have Landsoul's Spreadsheet and if someone would check for me I'd be eternally grateful!

I'm pretty sure my spec is great, so surely it's not arms is it? I pull -around- 4k in heroics, sometimes more sometimes less (minimum 3.9k, max 4.7k I believe).

I know I have a really shitty cape and Relentless gloves but I'm working on improving them and not enchanting them/gemming them to my best until I get better. I'm working on getting the badges to buy T9 gloves (ilevel 232), leggings (ilevel 232), and the triumph badge ring (ilevel 245) ALL at the same time so they actually form an upgrade without gimping me (like atm if I just got the ring, I'd lose too much expertise).

Thoughts? Suggestions? Appreciate it!

Destruyen
12-14-2009, 05:42 AM
Is Needle-Encrusted Scorpion superior to GT or MJR? If not, which of these two are better (GT or MJR)?
runestone is still the better trinket when it comes to arp proccing trinkets. yes scorpion has slightly more crit and arp on proc, but the big difference is the chance on hit for runestone and chance on crit for scorpion. at higher gear levels in a raid buffed setting it's not that big of a deal. but for pvp, 5 mans, and lower gear levels where crit is lower, then runestone is better.


Also, am I doing the right thing to gem ArP?
yes


I'm pretty sure my spec is great, so surely it's not arms is it?
spec looks fine, however you need to replace your glyphs with rending and execution while keeping your ms one. also, you have the rotation down right? your dps can be thrown off alot if you aren't utilizing every gcd and following the proper priority list.


I'm working on getting the badges to buy T9 gloves (ilevel 232), leggings (ilevel 232), and the triumph badge ring (ilevel 245) ALL at the same time so they actually form an upgrade without gimping me (like atm if I just got the ring, I'd lose too much expertise).
dont get the legs, yours are better. get the tier shoulders, helm, gloves, and chest for the 4 piece. plus you should get enough hit off the helm and gloves to upgrade other pieces like your neck to the agi one out of trial 10, or at the least the conquest badge agi neck.

Novekk
12-14-2009, 06:39 AM
Thanks a ton for the quick reply!

I have a few more questions though;


runestone is still the better trinket when it comes to arp proccing trinkets. yes scorpion has slightly more crit and arp on proc, but the big difference is the chance on hit for runestone and chance on crit for scorpion. at higher gear levels in a raid buffed setting it's not that big of a deal. but for pvp, 5 mans, and lower gear levels where crit is lower, then runestone is better.

That's good to know, however I'm sitting at a little over 30% crit unbuffed and in 25s I'm at 40.05% - would this make NES superior since I'm no longer at low levels of crit?


spec looks fine, however you need to replace your glyphs with rending and execution while keeping your ms one. also, you have the rotation down right? your dps can be thrown off alot if you aren't utilizing every gcd and following the proper priority list.

Yeah, my priority rotation is pretty solid I think.

Charge > Rend > MS > Overpower to start out, then priority goes to;

Rend (Let it tick off first, to get that last OP) > OP (ONLY if the 6 second tick isn't about to happen > MS > Execute > OP (If the 6 second tick isn't about to happen > Slam with Heroic Strike as my rage dump on single targets unless there's 2 or more mobs in which I then Cleave instead.

I use Bladestorm when there's two or more mobs, or if it's single target I'll try to fit it in IMMEDIATELY after an Overpower and if possible while MS is still on CD.


dont get the legs, yours are better. get the tier shoulders, helm, gloves, and chest for the 4 piece. plus you should get enough hit off the helm and gloves to upgrade other pieces like your neck to the agi one out of trial 10, or at the least the conquest badge agi neck.

Alright, thanks. Question though, when you say get tier shoulders, you mean the ToC 25 trophy ones right? My current shoulders are ilevel 245 badge and the same thing with my helm. It's ilevel 245 badge, and my chest is ilevel 245 ToC crafted. I'll definitely be getting the gloves though.

-----------------------------

Last question; is Arms pulling as much DPS as Fury or is Fury beating Arms? If so, is it beating Arms by over 500 DPS?

TomHuxley
12-14-2009, 12:19 PM
I have to say I'm also curious if Fury is significantly ahead of Arms now. I only maintain one dps set (and normally have two tank specs) but I've been switching to an Arms offspec on non-raid nights and it's a lot of fun, but I'm wondering if I'm gimping it by going Arms over Fury.

Novekk
12-14-2009, 05:19 PM
Hm, could anyone share some insight on this?

BWarner
12-14-2009, 05:36 PM
Both are competitive. Really. It comes down to experience, preference, and significant mechanic discrepancies in certain fights. For example, I prefer Arms, so I play that in most situations. However, the specific mechanics of Anub'arak on 25HM lean too heavily in Fury's favor to ignore, due to the high number of adds that put Whirlwind to good use, and making liberal use of constant rage-dumping through 3-target Cleaving.

Novekk
12-14-2009, 06:16 PM
Great, that's good to know. Now, I do have one last question.


That's good to know, however I'm sitting at a little over 30% crit unbuffed and in 25s I'm at 40.05% - would this make NES superior since I'm no longer at low levels of crit?What about this? When does NES become superior to both MJR and GT? I'm guessing it's always superior to GT but is MJR better than NES? What's the proc rate on NES, if anyone knows? I'm trying to decide which one I want, although MJR will probably be a little more difficult to get.

If MJR is better, then will it always be better or does NES surpass it at a certain point, like so much crit, ect.

Oh, and I'm pulling between 5 - 5.5k in 25 mans with full raid buffs, flasks, food. Is this good for my gear, especially considering I'm using a blue cape and Relentless gloves, as well as Coren's Chromium Coaster?

squats
12-14-2009, 06:20 PM
mjolnir procs from hits, needle encrusted scorpion procs from crits and the proc chance on needle encrusted scorpion is slightly less then mjolnir's

Dragaan
12-14-2009, 07:29 PM
Fury is still ahead of arms on most fights. Arms MIGHT be able to pull (very slightly) ahead on a tank and spank fight where there is no movement involved (saurfang, for example), but those fights are rare and almost any fight with more than 1 mob makes fury the ideal spec. The only reason for staying fulltime as arms would be if your guild's rogues have all switched to mutilate spec over combat.

wired
12-15-2009, 04:40 AM
Guys I need help with ARMS also......any advise?
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Aegwynn&n=Margerek)

Kinetix
12-15-2009, 07:14 AM
Guys I need help with ARMS also......any advise?
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Aegwynn&n=Margerek)


You need the 2pc T9 bonus badly. Get Broach of the Wailing Night (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=45820). Then pick up the T9 helm. Change your meta to Relentless Earthsiege Diamond (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=41398). 1 Nightmare tear is all you need to fulfill the meta requirement. Get a weapon in one of the new heroics, they're 232 level. You have 17 expertise AND weapon mastery. You can get rid of weapon mastery. Pick Unrelenting Assault up. The hit you'll gain from the T9 helm will probably be enough so you can drop your belt. Try to get Girdle of the Impaler (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47614).

On that note. I feel like I have to keep my rotation tight and use consumables to keep up with my fury counterparts.

Kazeyonoma
12-15-2009, 09:49 AM
@OP, wrong forum, moving to HALP forum.

@ wired, make your own thread in the HALP forum please.

Chaosjet
12-15-2009, 10:28 AM
Based off my gear only and assuming the correct rotation. What should my dps be on a boss such as Saurfang?
Link The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Lightning%27s+Blade&n=Chaosjet)

wired
12-17-2009, 05:20 AM
thanks for helping....on my server warriors don't get alot of love and getting into raids can be really hard but I'm working on it. it is sad tho when a dk with trash gear can beat your dps so easy.

redrocket855
01-11-2010, 01:06 PM
I currently raid as Arm's, use Grim Toll and more or less stack str, with the exception of recently changing my jewelers gems to ArP. I pull between 6-7k dmg...usually around 7k and around 7.3k on Marrowgar/Saurfang/Festergut..even when stacking pure str. So I dunno if ArP is the ultimate way to go...

remu00
01-17-2010, 12:23 PM
I currently raid as Arm's, use Grim Toll and more or less stack str, with the exception of recently changing my jewelers gems to ArP. I pull between 6-7k dmg...usually around 7k and around 7.3k on Marrowgar/Saurfang/Festergut..even when stacking pure str. So I dunno if ArP is the ultimate way to go...

Ya there is alot of debate between arp Vs Strength. I wish there was one declared winner so i could know whats the one to use. I am Fully gemed strength for a while now and i wanted to know if Arp is the way to go for both fury and arms.

My armory link.
The World of Warcraft Armory - Gaothaire @ Proudmoore - Profile (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Proudmoore&cn=Gaothaire)

Dekar
01-17-2010, 12:42 PM
Ya there is alot of debate between arp Vs Strength. I wish there was one declared winner so i could know whats the one to use. I am Fully gemed strength for a while now and i wanted to know if Arp is the way to go for both fury and arms.

My armory link.
The World of Warcraft Armory - Gaothaire @ Proudmoore - Profile (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Proudmoore&cn=Gaothaire)


Generally rule of thumb for either spec is, if you can hit 100% by using a trinket proc (needle, GT or mjolnir) and gemming ArP, then do it.

Or if you're able to hit ~90%+ passive ArP (not factoring a trinket proc), then do it as ArP gets better the more you have. This is usually a lot easier as Arms than it is as fury because you don't get the added 10% from battle stance as fury (or 16% with t9 2p).

Personally, my offspec is fury (prot ms) and I use needle (only because we've had 2 mjolnir's drop total since uld came out, and ones rotting on my kitty) and I only need about 2-3 +20 ArP gems to hit the softcap when needle is proc'd, and I stack +20 strength in the rest. It may take more gems than that depending on how much ArP you have on gear but most of mine is toc/icc 10/25 gear i've gotten on offspec rolls so it'd riddled with ArP.

I've tried both specs (including gemming for passive ArP of 94% as arms) and I personally can pull more dps as fury. That's not to say fury is better, it's just what I happen to be better at and more comfortable with. Both specs do competitive dps equally geared, Fury only stands out as better if there's more than 1 mob being attacked (togc 10/25 anub, twin valks, etc)

remu00
01-17-2010, 02:00 PM
So whats the % or Arp i should go for? so should i gem everything 20arp or what gems should i focus on to get what stats.

Breadfast
01-17-2010, 05:56 PM
I just re-spec'd to Fury from Arms and at my gear level (mostly 245~) it's cleanly beating Arms on almost all fights. I'm sure there are some situations where arms can pull ahead...

Arms is better than fury at lower gear levels, as well.

Antioch
01-17-2010, 08:32 PM
I know this is off-topic, but really, how did this thread with 18 replies get over 6 THOUSAND views???

gravelayer
01-18-2010, 11:11 AM
I know this is off-topic, but really, how did this thread with 18 replies get over 6 THOUSAND views???
I typed into google "3.3 arms spec". This is one of the top results.
I am a RAID tank but like to dabble in Arms. I don't keep up with the latest and greatest so I just want to find the "best" spec and the "best" rotation.
Amazing how hard it is just to find this basic information.

lfern
01-18-2010, 01:08 PM
hi I need help too :confused: i have been arms for a while but I was fury for leveling and for a while into 80 I got marrowstrike in ToC and they told me I should go arms I now have much better gear than that and was wondering if I should be going BACK into fury, and if I should get some epic ArP gems. I get really frustated when a noob caster or crappy deathknight come into a group and beat my dps even though my gear is much better than that.

Here is my armory link: The World of Warcraft Armory - Devistate @ Shandris - Profile (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Shandris&cn=Devistate)

plz help any general advice would be good as well

lfern
01-30-2010, 06:36 PM
bump

Kugarth
03-06-2010, 05:12 PM
i read somewhere that 'people don't talk about sword spec' but the best weapon available to me right now is the citadel enforcers claymore, should a sword specced arms warrior be avoided?

Destruyen
03-06-2010, 05:53 PM
ramalandi's blade of culling is only 2 bosses away from claymore, 1 really cause gunship is a joke.

but, if that's really all you can get, and you can't get a dual-blade butcher from toc25 regular, then sword spec is your only option.

drummerbummer
03-07-2010, 09:36 AM
Ive been playing both specs, and you have no idea how many times i respeced, regemmed and tested both specs. First off over the arp and strength debate, arp is now the way to go if you plan on doing harcore raids including icc10/25 and togc10/25. Warriors should stick with 50-55% soft cap arp w/ a proc trinket until they know they can hit 100% arp passive when they get the right type of gear in the future. But do not take advantage it over your other stats including hit and exp. Now for the specs, they both have the same gemming technique, but arms is much easier to hard cap arp in battlestance. A lil more difficult for fury unless they can get extra arp from their offhand weap. Now between the performance between arms and fury. I'll be straight forward about it and I would DEFININTLEY go with arms. Now a lot ppl who respec over from arms to fury who think they're doing better dps is because of many reasons. They prob test it through running heroics raping mobs and its a much easier spec to play. Fury usually do more dps than arms or actually in any other class spec in heroics/mobs is because of their instant dps increase from aoe whirlwind. As for the rotation, it couldn't get any easier, its like rolling a pally class. Now the reason why i choose arms is because it's more of a single target boss spec taen an aoe spec like fury. Its rotation if you will takes a lil more time to get use especially when you gotta watch your sudden death/overpower procs. I do a solid 8k dps on boss fights, while i do 6-6.5k on fury. Fury is basically an aoe spec, its rapes in mobs but what it's more important, the mobs or the actual boss fight? In saurfang in icc, fury almost becomes useless when the mobs spawn. Whirlwind is one of the main abilities, and it always has to be delayed when mobs appear, decreasing dps. Arms take a lil more skill, fury requires very little performance so give arms some time. I'm currently an arms warrior and i pull top3 in dps in my guild, competing with a warlock and mage.

Destruyen
03-07-2010, 10:24 AM
Warriors should stick with 50-55% soft cap arp w/ a proc trinket until they know they can hit 100% arp passive
once you can hit 80%+ you should drop the arp trinket and go passive. the arp trinkets have at best 22% uptime which means you will only be doing the best possible dps for your gear a few times out of a fight.


Now between the performance between arms and fury. I'll be straight forward about it and I would DEFININTLEY go with arms.
give 2 warriors best in slot gear and given the same skill level fury will even beat arms in single target dps. arms out-performs fury at lower gear levels.


In saurfang in icc, fury almost becomes useless when the mobs spawn. Whirlwind is one of the main abilities, and it always has to be delayed when mobs appear, decreasing dps.
negative, the blood beasts have something like a 90% resistance to aoe dmg (just like the faction champs fight in trail). you should not be holding back whirlwind for them at all. why are you holding off on whirlwind when mobs appear? this gives fury even more of a boost over arms since all arms has is sweeping strikes every 30 seconds and 1 minute 15 second bladestorm. tell your rogues and hunters to misdirect more/better when adds spawn.


I do a solid 8k dps on boss fights, while i do 6-6.5k on fury.
i increased my dps by around 500 on average just switching from arms to fury (mostly due to my low frame rates). it's not a 2k+ dps difference unless you cannot manage your rage effectively. i pulled ~9.5k on saurfang and ~11k on festergut this past week as fury, two fights that lets melee test out how well they perform their rotations in a raid environment.


Arms take a lil more skill, fury requires very little performance so give arms some time.
i will agree with this point. switching from arms to fury and being used to utilizing every global actually messed me up with fury for the first week or so. but starting out, fury is easier than arms, with some minor adjustments when going from arms to fury.

Cryptox
03-20-2010, 09:08 PM
Hey all, my first post here.

So, Im gearing up my warrior for fury. Here he is:http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Burning+Steppes&cn=Cryptox
(I know the enchants/gems aren't the best, fury is currently my off specc).

So basically what im wondering about is:

- What caps are important to reach , and what are most important? Hit, Expertise, ArP?
- Once I reach those caps, what should be my primary stat to gem for?
- What glyphs should a fury warrior have?
- What spesific enchants should I have (like MH/OH comb.)
- I think I know my basic rotation, but I would really like to hear it from somebody who knows their business.

Every advice you think would be helpful (and every advice probably would), just say it.
All replies are greatly appriciated.

Destruyen
03-20-2010, 09:18 PM
please read: http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?57781-Wotlk-Fury-Warrior-Guide

Cryptox
03-21-2010, 02:07 PM
Thanks for the link, was really helpful :)

Im still wondering abit about gear though.

Should I go for the 4 set bonus of t9? Both my Hands and Head seem like they're better than t9.
And is the 50 Badge of Triumph trinket worth it? Will get abit much hit if I buy it.

Also having trouble finding a good cape.

Destruyen
03-21-2010, 02:25 PM
4pc t9 is nice until you can get 2pc t10. get shoulders and helm for the 4pc.. the triumph badge trinket is pretty bad, you shouldn't need that much hit outside of your other pieces and the on use with a 2 minute cd is pretty blah. ap gemming is bad for warriors with all the +str modifiers in our specs (strength of arms for arms and imp. berserker stance for fury). dump most all of your hit gear, you only need 164 hit. there's an agi cloak in one of the new icc 5 mans that's pretty decent.

Cryptox
03-21-2010, 11:48 PM
Yeah my gems are bad, I know.

Will try to lose some of my hit, and gain some ArP I guess, going after the guide.

Ty again for the advice.

Pepyto
03-24-2010, 10:41 PM
Fury > Arms if you have the gear. Arms is more weapon damaged based VS Fury that is more gear based. If your gear is lacking and you can get a hold of a good weapon, you will defenetly do more damage as Arms. If you have better gear then your weapon, you will do more damage as Fury. If your gear is the same, depending how good it is you will be better off arms or fury. Arms would be for lower gear levels and fury would be for higher gear levels. I do 10kdps on single target fights in 25 man ICC, was doing 13k on 10 man Lich King attempts earlier today. I have played both specs and although arms is far more complex then fury, I would have to say that arms is easier to play because your rage is easier to manage. Complex does not make something hard, it just makes it harder to learn. Once you have the rotation down, it's cake. With the t10 4 set bonus, your rage jumps up and down at such a high rate, that I have to be looking at my rage bar about once every 2-3 seconds VS arms I only need to take a look here and there when OP, MS and Execute are on CD. By the way, when your main abilities are on CD, you should be spamming slam and using heroic strike if you are still generating to much rage while spamming slam. Rage should never be over 70 in arms spec and should try to be kept around 50. Rage generation is much more spiky in Fury. You have to be constantly spamming heroic strike above 20% of targets health, while you make sure that you dont go OOR (Out Of Rage) by over spamming it after you miss with 2-3 white hits. When the targets hits 20% hp, you get a rotation that makes fury become more like Arms.

To sum it up, I believe that Fury > Arms, because when geared the same, at high level gear you get more dps out of Fury. Furthermore, Fury is much more versatile, making it easier to move without losing any damage and switching from AOE (Cleave) to single target (Heroic Strike) within a fraction of a second.

P.S. Armor Penetration is a beast, so stack it to 1400 (100%). If your gear isnt to good, try to get a trinket that procs some and get 1400 - proc ArP. Then stack some items that have a lot of armor penetration in your bank. When you can reach about 80% ArP, you can put all your gear on.

Hope this helps

|Pepyto| There is only 1 Pepyto.

Gulkash
04-10-2010, 05:14 PM
First and foremost, I wish to thank these forums for being an INVALUABLE resource. As more or less the only DPS warrior in my guild, good advice is hard to come by.

On that note, few things I didn't see mentioned that I am going to add in.

Fury seems to scale differently with raid buffs than arms. (numbers are from the landsoul sheet) I have about a net 400 DPS swing between arms and fury depending on if I am lucky enough to get WF or Icy Talons. With, fury comes out 200 DPS higher. Without, arms comes up 200 DPS higher.

Also, about the weapon dependency. Keep in mind that fury will require 2 two-hand weapons (in current permutation), and that Byntroll is not a great offhand. I am using it presently, mostly because of what I have in my main hand. I, like so many others here, am contemplating about my 9000th respec, back to arms because I have one fantastic weapon, and one meh weapon. any recommendations?

Arikak
04-10-2010, 05:30 PM
Also, about the weapon dependency. Keep in mind that fury will require 2 two-hand weapons (in current permutation), and that Byntroll is not a great offhand. I am using it presently, mostly because of what I have in my main hand. I, like so many others here, am contemplating about my 9000th respec, back to arms because I have one fantastic weapon, and one meh weapon. any recommendations?

Bryntroll should be your MH, especially if your other weapon is "Meh." You're killing your DPS. Only time Bryntroll should be an OH option is if you have one of the few weapons that are better than it. And even then you can sometimes be better off not using it at all.

Gulkash
04-10-2010, 05:38 PM
Byntroll is my "Meh" weapon, my MH is Shadows Edge.

Destruyen
04-10-2010, 05:51 PM
bryntoll shouldn't even be an offhand option.

Gulkash
04-10-2010, 06:55 PM
Agreed. But it's the only 25 man ICC 2h weapon available to me at present. And it is this fact that is making me want to swap back to arms. But substantial gear re-arrangement would be required. I'm just lookin for a 2nd opinion on this mostly.

Gulkash
04-13-2010, 09:56 PM
just a small update, problem solved, landed cryptmaker

Shazlonium
05-24-2010, 04:11 AM
hey guys,

some nice info here

been arms for a while, tried fury a few times, but i never felt the "fun" of it...

not much to ask for except an opinion on my gear, i seem to be doing well in 10 mans, even better in 25, ranked 5th place in ICC rep run last night with about 9k dps (thanks to the slackers :P).
anywho, here's my armory (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?cn=Expac&r=Quel%27Thalas&ST=EU-1716121-uCbQvachUfiiiyZ1G0RRafMtOFQySohDIBm), would appreciate any feedback

thanks.