View Full Version : Tanking Tank trinkets - Juggernaut's Vitality x2..
12-13-2009, 09:11 AM
I've noticed a lot of tanks stacking stamina to the max nowadays. Some tanks use 2x Juggernaut's Vitality just because it gives them a higher health pool, even though the use effect of the two trinkets have a shared cooldown.
Imo it's a big waste to use the 192 stamina one over Heart of Iron.. basically you're choosing between "Use: Increases dodge rating by 432 for 20 sec. (2 Min Cooldown)" and "+30 stamina"..
Tanks who do use Jugg x2, care to shed some light about your choice?
I personally think that for the majority of encounters the best options are Satrina's and the Glyph of Indomitability. For maximum efficiency though you have to switch for encounters, for example if there is predictable burst that can be avoided with a little bit of magic damage a Satrina Glyph combo shines. For just pure physical damage like Marrowgar I would use a Satrina, Black Heart combo for maximum EH.
With around 45% magic damage and higher in what will kill you I could see a double Satrina combo coming in handy. And finally for avoidance favoring bosses like Saurfang or the gunship captain double avoidance trinkets come in handy.
Well what you're lookin at is the fact that right now, Maximum HP is partially indicative of "how good a tank you are" to everyone besides very few people whom know what they're talking about.
What the main idea right now is that if you have more HP, you can soak more hits, and thus give your healers more time to heal you. Right? That's why people do it. Is it true? To a point. Two hits in ICC is still probably going to kill you without some sort of heal or cooldown.
I run about 47k(ish) buffed hp at the moment. Though I am not running any stam trinkets. If I had a Juggernaut I would probably sub it in for my Glyph of Indominability, but I would keep my Corpse Tongue Coin(new dodge/<35% +armor effect) just to have more of a balance.
Though, with my current trinket setup, I am easily the "least damage taken" tank out of all of our 4 main tanks. Two warriors, one druid, one paladin. That is directly due to both my glyph/talent choices(max cooldown usage), and my gearing choices. I take usually 5% less damage overall tanking the same things than my similarly "max hp" tanks.
12-13-2009, 10:23 AM
Here's the thing about magical damage.
There are two kinds of magical damage as far as tanking goes.
Magical damage that can hit raid members and magical damage that only hits the tank.
The first kind of magical damage you can basically ignore. With the exception of very specific fights, the damage is irrelevant. Not only do tanks have damage reduction against it, they have about twice the health that your other raid members have.
The second kind of magical damage needs to be countered. Either through the use of cooldowns, dispels or interrupts. If these counters are not present, you are toast.
So gearing for the first type of magical damage is pointless, gearing for the other type of magical damage is pointless as well.
I wouldn't say gearing for magic is pointless, even though most of the time it is only going to be small percentage of what kills you. I would say for the most part you should take unmitigated damage into the consideration when you are gearing for a boss.
For example Gormok's bleed, when gearing for Gormok you have to consider that around 15-18% of the burst damage in unmitigated, you have to take into consideration that Stamina will become slightly more valuable in that situation.
12-13-2009, 02:28 PM
I run 2x Jug's because... well... it's better. The EHP gain from the second 192 trinket outweighs anything else imo. I already have high armor (29.1k unbuffed in my EHP gear) and heart of iron would be more EHP than glyph of indom for me. Further more, I just don't think the dodge on use is worth always having about 30 more stam. Fights for the most part require EHP and avoidance is too RNG to matter, at the point in time the 245 Jug's will give me more EHP than anything else, I'm gonna use it. Now sure on fights where avoidance might be better like Saurfang or Gunship I'll switch trinkets around per fight, but if I'm in my EHP gear I'm using dual Jug's Vits.
What about the Black Heart Aggathon, its proc is has an uptime at around 15% of the time and in pure EH the armor from it is worth an extra 96 stamina. I don't think the Satrina on use is worth an extra 27 stamina.
12-13-2009, 04:54 PM
b/c of the low uptime you the armor on the black heart might as well be just as RNG as avoidance. What you want is stuff that wil be guaranteed to be around when you get hit hard for the abilities that will kill you (at least when you're sitting in your EH set). At the point in time when I have 70 extra stam all the time, I'll take that over a 15% chance to have more armor.
12-13-2009, 05:48 PM
2x Jug's is a viable option in certain situations. However, as a warrior the Glyph is still overall better for a majority of the fights. On Lady, yes 2x Jug would be a stronger selection mainly because a majority of the incoming damage is from magic damage. Including phase 1 and 2, death and decays, random shadow bolt casts from the adds, frost bolt in phase 2, random MC class abilities, etc... the list goes on. However for the other fights (released so far) is a different case. From a pure EH standpoint, yes 2x jug's with raid buffs is better. I figured I would get that out of the way before I started saying anything else.
For a majority of the fights ICC and ToC included, there is a lot of physical damage and some of which is unavoidable (impales). Having a trinket on incoming melee/physical that grants as much damage reduction as glyph does is far better than the extra health would in that situation. I am a big fan of EH as well. However, the glyph is better over jug for many of the fights because it also has the on use to grant you ~6.8% dodge.
On every fight except lady I see glyph being a stronger choice. Once more fights are released and more gear becomes accessable that will change. It honesly won't matter once next wing comes out because the trinket from 10 man ICC will be the best trinket anyways. So this thread won't really matter in a few weeks.
12-13-2009, 11:07 PM
I use double jug's on my armory, and when standing in dalaran, cause it makes pugs eyes pop out to see my health levels. But double stam trinkets are nice in any fight with heavy magic damage, so far that would be lady deathwhisper as everyone is saying.
In reality I usually swap to glyph of indomitablity in many raids. And usually in heroics I take one stam trink off for lavanthor's talisman.
I plan to replace at one of those trinkets with Unidentifiable Organ as soon as one drops for me. Probably replace glyph with Organ. Then replace Jug's with one of the several ICC stamina trinkets.
Always remember, what you see on an armory page or in dalaran might not be the tanks real raid gear. The armory is a single snapshot, and can be easily deceptive.
12-14-2009, 12:12 AM
I will admit there are places that glyph is better, but for raw EHP fights Jug's vitality is a LOT more EHP for me than glyph, and I personally think that the extra gap it gives me is worth the on use.
12-14-2009, 12:39 AM
I use both Jugg trinkets only because the trinket I had before was the brewfest.
I would switch out the 245 version for the Heart of Iron on certain fights, but Ignis has NEVER dropped it, sad. Double Jugg isn't a bad path to take though, the EHP is really nice. I stand at 52k buffed.
12-14-2009, 12:44 AM
Jug never dropped for me, so I'm still using the heart of iron. Combined with the glyph.
I'm running around with almost 70% buffed physical damage reduction, and I love it. My goal is to hit the armor cap so I can write an angry letter to blizzard for being unable to use armor pots.