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Ciderhelm
12-09-2009, 08:11 AM
You can find a guide to the heroic version of this encounter here (http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?63982-Icecrown-Lady-Deathwhisper-Hard)!

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Hi, I'm Lore from Tankspot, and welcome to the 25-Man Normal video guide for the Lady Deathwhisper encounter.

Lady Deathwhisper is fought in two phases, of which the first is by far the most complex. She'll shield herself with a mana barrier that causes any damage she takes to drain her mana instead. In order to get to phase 2, you'll need to empty out her entire mana pool. Deathwhisper herself has no aggro table during this phase, and will stand still chaincasting Shadow Bolts at random raid members, along with a handful of other abilities I'll cover shortly. Meanwhile, waves of adds will be spawning from the edges of the room -- 3 from each side, and 1 from the stairs at the entrance.

Two types of adds can spawn: Cult Fanatics and Cult Adherents. Cult Fanatics are fairly straightforward melee attackers, although they do have a very powerful cleave that will need to be avoided by melee DPS. Adherents are casters who will spend most of their time casting some fairly inconsequential DPS abilities. However, they do have a very dangerous Curse called Curse of Torpor that increases ability cooldowns by 15 seconds. This should be dispelled immediately.

The key to this phase is putting just enough DPS on the adds to kill them before another wave spawns, and letting the rest of your DPS focus on killing the boss. Ideally, you should have melee DPS split between the two sides, with one tank for each group, and a third tank picking up the single add that spawns from the entryway. Although the type of add that spawns from the entrance appears to be random, the two side groups are always the same. As you're facing the boss, the group on the left will always be two Fanatics and one Adherent, and the group on the right will always be two Adherents and one Fanatic. The Adherents should be quickly burned down by melee DPS while the tank focuses on picking up the Fanatics. Once all three adds on a side have been killed, melee should run over to kill the entryway add.

Meanwhile, your ranged and caster DPS will be focusing on the boss while also dealing with the rest of Deathwhisper's abilities. She'll be dropping large green Death and Decays on the ground from time to time -- move out of them. She'll also occasionally mind control a single raid member, who will need to be crowd controlled quickly.

The final tricks up Deathwhisper's sleeves, at least for phase 1, come in the form of spells she casts on her Cultist minions. Deathwhisper can empower a cultist, granting it a couple extra abilities. Empowered Adherents can cast a magic shield and a dangerous AOE, while empowered Fanatics will deal increased damage and heal for 300% of the damage they deal. These are somewhat dangerous, but it appears that they can be purged or possibly even spellstolen. She can also resurrect fallen cultists as Skeletal Adherents or Skeletal Fanatics. Skeletal Adherents have a 99% reduction to magical damage taken, and should simply be picked up and killed by the melee DPS. Skeletal Fanatics, however, have a 99% reduction to physical damage, so the casters will need to swap off of the boss temporarily and burn these down when they appear.

Phase 1 can take a while to get through, but if you can keep everything under control, it's fairly simple. Melee kills the adds, ranged kills the boss. Healers will need to be on their toes as damage has a tendency to come fairly quickly without warning on random raid members. Crowd control will need to be fast as well.

Once Deathwhisper's mana has finally been depleted, her mana shield is destroyed and phase 2 begins. Adds will no longer spawn, so it's best to try to time this to happen just after a wave has been killed. At the very least, make sure a tank is available to pick her up once the shield drops.

Deathwhisper gains a few abilities during Phase 2. The first is a single target Frostbolt that she casts on the tank. This hits for around 50k and cannot be resisted, so you'll need to set up an interrupt rotation to make sure none get through. She also casts an AOE Frostbolt Volley that appears to be unavoidable and simply needs to be healed through. Probably the most dangerous ability gained in Phase 2 however is her Vengeful Spirits. She'll spawn a large number of these around the room, which will move to nearby raid members and explode for a very large amount of damage. These are unfortunately very small and somewhat hard to see, especially in the melee, so be watching carefully for them. Of course, she'll still be casting Death and Decay and mind controlling raid members during this phase, so be sure to keep moving out of green circles and crowd controlling.

Her last ability is called Touch of Insignificance. It's a debuff that reduces threat caused by 20% per stack, with up to 5 stacks. She casts this on the tank, so your tanks will need to taunt off of each other every so often to keep from having threat issues.

Ultimately, the key to Lady Deathwhisper is getting Phase 1 under control and getting through it cleanly for the transition into Phase 2. Once you've got that down, the hardest part is just keeping an eye out for the tiny blue ghosts that are coming to kill you. After all, you don't want to be the guy who dies at 12% and then uploads the video to YouTube.

If you'd like more information on this or any other encounter, check the Project Marmot forums at TankSpot.com. If you're watching this on YouTube, just follow the link in the movie details. Thanks for watching, and good luck!


Hello and welcome to the TankSpot Icecrown Citadel Raid Guide! My name is Aliena and in this video I'll cover everything you need to know about the normal mode 10-man version of the Lady Deathwhisper encounter.

This is a 2-phase encounter slightly reminiscent of the Kel'Thuzad fight in Naxxramas. In the first phase, Lady Deathwhisper is surrounded by a Mana Shield that prevents her from taking any damage whatsoever until her mana reaches 0, at which point phase 2 is triggered. In the 10 man version, Deathwhisper has 3.3 million mana, which means you need to deal the equivalent of 3.3 million damage to her to break her shield. Two tanks are recommended for this encounter and 2-3 healers as well as a mix of ranged and melee DPS.

In this phase, she will attack the raid with shadowbolts that deal about 8000 damage and will also cast green clouds of Death and Decay that deal 4500 shadow damage per second and last for 10. What makes this phase challenging however are the waves of adds she spawns. There are two types of adds, Cult Adherents and Cult Fanatics. Adherents are a caster type that deal shadowfrost damage, have a magic shield and randomly cast an ability called Curse of Torpor that increases the target's ability cooldowns by 15 seconds and hence should preferably be handled by melee. Fanatics are a melee type that deal physical damage and cleave.

Both add types have an ability called Dark Transformation which make them deal 100% more damage, and both can also be empowered by Lady Deathwhisper, granting them new abilities, most notably turning their damaging abilities into AoE abilities and preventing them from being interrupted. This appears to be dispel- and purgeable and should be handled quickly.

Every once in a while, Deathwhisper will revive a fallen add and turn them into reanimated adherents or fanatics. Reanimated adherents are 99% immune to magical damage and reanimated fanatics are 99% immune to physical damage, so they need to be handled by melee and ranged dps as appropriate. Reanimated fanatics have a self-buff called Vampiric Might that increases their damage dealt by 25% and also heals them for 300% of the damage they deal, so they should preferably be kited.

To handle this phase, have your tank and melee DPS take care of the adds. They will alternately spawn on the left and right side in sets of three, so make sure your tank is always ready to pick up a new set. The left side will always spawn two fanatics and one adherent and the right side will always spawn two adherents and one fanatic. Should a reanimated adherent pop up, have your casters handle it. Most times however caster DPS should be available to damage Deathwhisper herself to deplete her mana shield. Making sure you keep up with adds while continuously draining Deathwhisper's mana is the whole trick to phase 1.

In her 10-man version, she does not mind control players like she does in the 25-man, so the only real dangers you face is Deathwhisper's Empowerment ability and not being able to keep up with add spawns. Once you figure out a good distribution of DPS though, you shouldn't have any trouble of depleting Deathwhisper's mana and triggering phase 2.

Lady Deathwhisper will break free and actively attack your raid. Similar to Kel'thuzad, her main attacks are Frost Spells - a single target Frostbolt that, unresisted, hits for around 40000 damage but can and should be interrupted and an AoE Frostbolt Volley that hits your entire raid for about 10000 damage. She also gains an ability called Touch of Insignificance which is cast on the main threat target and reduces its threat gain by 20% per application. This stacks up to 5 times and, without an off-tank, will result in your tank's absolute loss of threat generation. Kinda like what you see happening in this video. Waiting until your offtank reconnects from his internet failure is definitely recommended.

She will also frequently summon Vengeful Shades in this phase that act much like the ghosts in Sethekk Halls in that they will follow a player, except when they reach said player they will die in a 15-yard AoE explosion that deals around 18000 damage. Make sure to watch out for them and move away from them if you're anywhere near one. They disappear by themselves after a few seconds but are highly dangerous when they reach a raid member before then.

Deathwhisper will still cast Death and Decay, so make sure not to stand in bad stuff on the ground. Groundbreaking thought, I know. Other than that, phase 2 is much like KT's phase two if you exchange void zones with death and decay and large beetles with small blue ghosts that everybody has to look out for.

This covers the 10-man Deathwhisper encounter! Thank you for watching this movie. As always, feel free to ask questions or add suggestions either on YouTube or in the strategy thread on TankSpot.com. Also, TankSpot Donors can download all of these movies in High Definition directly from our servers -- so if you'd like to learn more about that, just click the second link in the movie information box!

Ciderhelm
12-09-2009, 09:29 AM
Movie is up! About 30 minutes before donor download is available.

Mr.Winkle
12-09-2009, 09:43 AM
Is there an HD version available? Quite hard to make out what's going on in standard def.

Lol @ ghost death.....very nice Lore.

Ion
12-09-2009, 09:45 AM
Tiny blue ghosts...bah. I saw no tiny blue ghost. But I did die to SOMETHING after the boss was dead...MAYBE it was some explosion of some sort...MAYBE there might have been a ghost of some sort...but I doubt it.

:|

Kazeyonoma
12-09-2009, 09:45 AM
Lore, you left out the Mutated or Transformed (forgot the spelling) adds. These things need to be kited and burned because they hit for 90k on leather (from our observations last night) and will still hit a plate tank for well over 90% of their HP.

Every once in a while, one of the adds will begin to Mutate/Transform and respawn as a large deformed add that moves slowly but hits incredibly hard. As long as the tank or kiter maintains aggro and runs from it, it will die just as fast as any other spawn, just don't get hit.

Chamenas
12-09-2009, 09:50 AM
Are there plans for 10 man videos, or should we infer from the 25 man mechanics?

Brainwreck
12-09-2009, 11:12 AM
Lore, you left out the Mutated or Transformed (forgot the spelling) adds. These things need to be kited and burned because they hit for 90k on leather (from our observations last night) and will still hit a plate tank for well over 90% of their HP.

Every once in a while, one of the adds will begin to Mutate/Transform and respawn as a large deformed add that moves slowly but hits incredibly hard. As long as the tank or kiter maintains aggro and runs from it, it will die just as fast as any other spawn, just don't get hit.

Found this out the hard way as well, hit me for 47k in nearly full i245.

Coldbear
12-09-2009, 11:29 AM
Make sure everyone has Projected Textures enabled in the Video: Effects game menu. Makes Death & Decay trivial to deal with and enables melee to continue to dps the boss very easily.

If nothing else precludes it, wouldn't you want specs with long ramp-up time on the boss in p1 and people with burst/on-demand dps on the adds? Thinking ferals, shadows and affliction?

We had lots of OT deaths due to Empowered Fanatics.

gabbu
12-09-2009, 11:45 AM
...

Genova
12-09-2009, 12:01 PM
On 10 man an Empowered Mutated Fanatic hit me for 27k, if they are not Empowered while mutated, it is not so bad.

So I would agree kiting is a necessity.

Vaelia
12-09-2009, 12:08 PM
Are there plans for 10 man videos, or should we infer from the 25 man mechanics?

In 10-man adds only spawn from one side at a time, alternating between the left and right, there are no mind controls, and the frost bolt cast on the tank is not quite as dangerous (though it should still be interrupted as much as possible).

Xuthal
12-09-2009, 01:45 PM
Thanks Vaelia. Any other advice for 10-man guilds?

Xu

Unknowhero
12-09-2009, 01:52 PM
In 10-man adds only spawn from one side at a time, alternating between the left and right, there are no mind controls, and the frost bolt cast on the tank is not quite as dangerous (though it should still be interrupted as much as possible).the hitted me 33K so stil dangerous i thought :D but first try and bos was down only a wipe at trash like i got with so much trash >.<

Blasterion
12-09-2009, 01:59 PM
Question Viper Sting Drain mana etc. is it effective?

Turelliax
12-09-2009, 02:15 PM
Nice vid, Did this on 10 man last night. Looking forward to this version tonight.

Kazeyonoma
12-09-2009, 02:30 PM
Question Viper Sting Drain mana etc. is it effective?

same effect as dps, as long as viper sting does more mana drain/sec than any other dps skill then I can't see how this isn't effective, but if it's < than a normal sting for damage, then it doesn't hold up, mana drain vs. damage against a manashield = same effect, pick the higher yield.

PBJsamich
12-09-2009, 05:37 PM
The mobs that have the magic or melee 99% reduction are Reanimated Adherents or Reanimated fanatics, incase ur making macros to target them for your peoples.

Lilithium
12-10-2009, 01:29 AM
Just wanted to add, a modified shadow spec for s.priests with a shorter mana burn while keeping up dots has worked out well for us. With a rapid-fire spell doing roughly 11k effective damage per cast, this helps bring the shield down nice and quick.

Just a thought.

Mr.Winkle
12-10-2009, 02:29 AM
Some comments on 10man:

The adds only spawn from one side at a time and you never have one spawn on the stairs, hence you could get by with just 1 tank but it is nice to have an OT kite the mutated add.

Raid make up is important since the reanimated adds are shieled to either melee or magic damage. We only had 1 caster dps in our 10man yesterday and this was slightly problematic.

An alternative strategy to splitting DPS between adds and the boss is to just have all DPS ont he adds, burn them down quickly (= last chance for a mutation) and then all nuke boss.

Make the adds your top pritoity, the 10min enrage times is quite fogiven considering the boss only had a total of 6.6mil HP+Mana. I would imagine any competent 10man could burn through P2 in 2 minutes. However if the adds start to stacck up beacuse you're neglecting them at the start you will wipe.

There's no MC in 10man as far as i can see.

Muffin Man
12-10-2009, 04:43 AM
While tanking this today, I thought to myself. "I'm sure glad my moves still do +threat"

Specifically I thought this while desperately trying to keep the physical immune skeletons from munching on our casters.

BTW, can anyone confirm if mana drains/burns work on her? It would give our healing priests something to do when things are light and our lock something to do when he starts getting low on mana.

Edit: somehow I missed Lithium's post, I'll take that as a yes.

Vaelia
12-10-2009, 06:05 AM
Mana burns, viper stings, drain mana, etc. are all capped by a percentage of the caster's mana. I cannot confirm whether or not they work on this boss, but in general it will usually be a dps loss of employ mana draining effects in place of standard damaging attacks.

As for 10-man, the first three fights in general really shouldn't be that bad for a strictly 10-man guild. Saurfang will probably be the first to give anyone major issues. This fight is theoretically solo-tankable, but I would recommend bringing two because of the threat reduction debuff, especially for a 10-man geared group.

Takethecake
12-10-2009, 06:46 AM
We actually had more trouble with Lady Deathwhisper than any other boss in 10 man last night. First boss was fairly straight forward, but having all the dps figure out what adds do what on Deathwhisper took a few attempts.

Gunship battle was a blast, but super easy to finish. And we one shot Saurfang, killing him just after he landed his first mark.

Holyprincess
12-10-2009, 06:48 AM
Awesome job again ill be sending all my dps to view this video for tonight, thanks for all the great work Tankspot.

For the Horde of Eredar !!

Tahriel
12-10-2009, 07:03 AM
We actually had more trouble with Lady Deathwhisper than any other boss in 10 man last night. First boss was fairly straight forward, but having all the dps figure out what adds do what on Deathwhisper took a few attempts.

Gunship battle was a blast, but super easy to finish. And we one shot Saurfang, killing him just after he landed his first mark.


My guild shot through the 10 man things last night, with us being a 10 man guild.

We wiped once on Deathwhisper and then beat her really easily. First time we wiped, we left some adds alive too long, after spliting the group up in to two seperate groups. We were expecting adds coming from both sides at once ;-) So we ended up having half the group trying to kill the adds while the other group stood waiting for adds to spawn lol.

Tanks - Druid and Paladin
Healers - Priest(Me as Disc) and Druid
DPS - 1 Deathknight, 2 Rogues, 2 Hunters, 1 Fury Warrior

We didn't put much effort into deciding which add to kill first, we just burnt them down really quickly, but we are all in 245's after farming ToC 10 Hard.

We put the 2 Hunters on Deathwhisper, and had all the Melee on the adds. after every add spawn phase we had around 20-30seconds? to have them help on the boss.

Our Melee dps really burnt down the adds really quickly which overall made the fight very dull for us.

We had the most wipes on the Gunship due to us having a laugh with the rocket packs lol.

/Tahriel

Deepelf
12-10-2009, 10:08 AM
It's a percentage drain,, and unless something is broken here, does seem to work out to about a 4% drain of mana per 15second interval. I don't recall what her total mana was, but if it's in the 1M range, then you're effectively draining ~2670 mana per second with each sting, for an otherwise only recovery shot for the hunter, which isn't bad. - this may or may not be capped by my mana recovery (8% of ~16k with raid buffs means 1280 "mana damage" / recovery per sec). In either case, I believe this to be better than the normal dps that my serpent brings to table, even with 2 piece tier 9.2 bonuses.


In 10 man, two dps on deathwhisper while the rest of the group was addressing adds, we took her shield down to 10% mana remaining in just over 4 minutes. I had viper sting up roughly 90% of the time. This was second attempt at her and last for night due to various reasons. I'm thinking since I believe viper now stacks in 3.3 and it may be possible to confirm if we bring a second hunter in for the fight, and the mana shield drops dramatically sooner.

Just to note, I wasn't only doing viper sting, I was obviously hitting my otherwise normal Survival shot rotation (swapping out viper sting for serpent sting)

Please feel free to correct me where I've gone astray.

Vaelia
12-10-2009, 10:34 AM
Viper Sting is capped at 8% of your maximum mana, meaning over 8 seconds you'll do ~1280 damage. Ignoring the fact that VS has a 15 second cooldown, we can say that VS is roughly 430 "damage" to the boss every 3 seconds. On the flipside, a fully raid buffed hunter with moderate gear will be doing upwards of 700 "damage" every SS tick, more depending on T9 bonuses and spec. Overall, trying to drain the mana of the boss is going to be inferior to standard dps considering all mana drain techniques are limited by the mana of the caster.

Deepelf
12-10-2009, 11:48 AM
thanks Vaelia -

Just a side note/question, is there a recount stat for mana drained or any way that I can go back to my stats from last night (since I haven't yet reset) in order to determine what the actual numbers for the fight were?

Reev
12-10-2009, 12:02 PM
Now I want to try this on 10 man, since everyone makes it sound so easy on 10 man. On 25, it seemed to be much more of a challenge than what people are talking about. We're a guild that does ToGC 10 up to Anub, and we have some nice dps, yet even with all of our dps killing adds and not worrying about Deathwhisper, we were unable to consistently take out all 7 adds per wave plus ressurections before more spawned. It was nasty.

Vaelia
12-10-2009, 12:53 PM
thanks Vaelia -

Just a side note/question, is there a recount stat for mana drained or any way that I can go back to my stats from last night (since I haven't yet reset) in order to determine what the actual numbers for the fight were?

I don't BELIEVE so. Never really thought to check, but it's so uncommon a tactic I'd assume not. Although you can probably go and check your stats for Mana Gained and see how much Viper Sting gave you. See how much an individual tick grants you, divide it by three, and that's how much mana you're draining from the boss.

Note: I'm note sure if recount will accurately tell you how much mana was gained if you were already at 100%.

Skyborn
12-10-2009, 02:54 PM
In this video you mention looking out for the ghosts in phase 2 that do a lot of damage. Are these supposed to be killed before they reach their target, avoided till they go away on their own, or will they target someone and detonate no matter what you do?

My guild hasn't made it into phase 2 yet but I'd just like some clarification on what to do about the ghosts.

Kazeyonoma
12-10-2009, 03:07 PM
just dodged, they despawn after a set amount of tiem i believe, just pull them away, they deal 15k or so damage so it's not total death, but you want it at least to detonate away from others.

manicus
12-10-2009, 11:02 PM
We did this last night, and actually had more difficulty with the two deathspeaker high priests just before the boss.

What we eventually came up with for those was: "Bunch up on tank, full burn, run out if you get the drain debuff". Priests holy nova healed.

As for the lady herself, we had our mage and paladin on the boss.

Balance druid was on fanatics, and our two deathknights was on the adherents.

When facing the boss, the right side of the room was always 1 caster add, 2 melee adds, and the other side was 2 casters, 1 melee.

We had no real trouble with the adds, as long we kept steady dps on them and focused on the deformed/empowered adds.

When the shield was down, we cleared the remaining adds, interrupted her frostbolt and tanks taunted off eachother when the threat reduction reached 3 stacks.

All in all it was an enjoyable fight.

Our raid setup was:
Warrior Tank, Paladin Tank
2x DK dps, Ret pally
Balance druid, Arcane mage
Holy pally, Disc priest, Holy priest.

Chasey
12-11-2009, 06:24 AM
Did it on 10 man and put a very heavy dps hunter on boss the whole time. and split dps between both side. Its pretty incredible how hard the boss hits. I wasn't expecting that. And me and the other tank found out the hard way about the mutated guys. Kiting is a must.

Mr.Winkle
12-11-2009, 07:03 AM
Did it on 10 man and put a very heavy dps hunter on boss the whole time. and split dps between both side. Its pretty incredible how hard the boss hits. I wasn't expecting that. And me and the other tank found out the hard way about the mutated guys. Kiting is a must.


The frost bolt is meant to be interrupted, i don't think you're emant to soak it, assuming you're talking about this ability.

Horacio
12-11-2009, 07:43 AM
The big, enraged/mutant adds was our downfall last night. Its definitely a challenging tanking assignment but our biggest problem came when the empowered mobs would stack up on one side (usually the side opposite where I was) and start taking people out.

As a warrior, the hardest thing for me was gathering the three adds as they spawn. It worked really well having a DPS DK drop D&D on the third spawn point while I stradled the other two and picking them all up there, peeling the 3rd off the DK. From that point, shockwave is your friend. Spell reflect is helpful too. I'm considering going back to imp but with all those mobs and trying to hold aggro, threat is at a premium.

We never made it to phase 2 but we got some reps in on it.

The High priest trash as was mentioned above wiped us the first time. We figured out the gimmick and then annihilated them from then on. Just have the person with the debuff run away from the raid.

Mell
12-12-2009, 06:34 AM
As a warrior tank I found it easiest to just gather up the 2 melee and have the dps just burn down the caster first, at least on the side with the 2 fanatics. The key to phase 1 for our guild at least was communication, letting the caster/melee know about the skeletal adds so they could be burned down asap.

Chamenas
12-12-2009, 07:33 PM
My guild shot through the 10 man things last night, with us being a 10 man guild.

We wiped once on Deathwhisper and then beat her really easily. First time we wiped, we left some adds alive too long, after spliting the group up in to two seperate groups. We were expecting adds coming from both sides at once ;-) So we ended up having half the group trying to kill the adds while the other group stood waiting for adds to spawn lol.

Tanks - Druid and Paladin
Healers - Priest(Me as Disc) and Druid
DPS - 1 Deathknight, 2 Rogues, 2 Hunters, 1 Fury Warrior

We didn't put much effort into deciding which add to kill first, we just burnt them down really quickly, but we are all in 245's after farming ToC 10 Hard.

We put the 2 Hunters on Deathwhisper, and had all the Melee on the adds. after every add spawn phase we had around 20-30seconds? to have them help on the boss.

Our Melee dps really burnt down the adds really quickly which overall made the fight very dull for us.

We had the most wipes on the Gunship due to us having a laugh with the rocket packs lol.

/Tahriel

How did you kill fanatics without a spellcaster?

Also, how much hp do the adds have on 10 man?

Muffin Man
12-12-2009, 08:37 PM
Inexplicably rogue poisons count as magic damage not physical. Although I guess they'd be nature damage.

Hunters I believe have nature and fire damage spells too, but it will be really slow burning down the physical resistant skellies without actual caster dps.

The adds from what I remember had around 100k on 10 man. I believe they heal to full when she empowers them as well and risen skellies might also keep their aggro table (but I'm really fuzzy on this).

Pesko
12-13-2009, 07:09 AM
Like your humor Lore, at "12%" :D
anyhow, GJ on yet a great guide :)

Chamenas
12-13-2009, 07:14 AM
Inexplicably rogue poisons count as magic damage not physical. Although I guess they'd be nature damage.

Hunters I believe have nature and fire damage spells too, but it will be really slow burning down the physical resistant skellies without actual caster dps.

The adds from what I remember had around 100k on 10 man. I believe they heal to full when she empowers them as well and risen skellies might also keep their aggro table (but I'm really fuzzy on this).

I'll keep this in mind, but our current group setup failed miserably on the adds our first time around. We had... a Paladin, Warrior, Feral Druid, Mage and Hunter. The Mage is neither geared nor skilled enough as a player to solo the adds. Perhaps my disease are considered Magic Damage though. They should be anyways.

Quenchiest
12-13-2009, 10:24 AM
As a warrior, the hardest thing for me was gathering the three adds as they spawn. It worked really well having a DPS DK drop D&D on the third spawn point while I stradled the other two and picking them all up there, peeling the 3rd off the DK. From that point, shockwave is your friend. Spell reflect is helpful too. I'm considering going back to imp but with all those mobs and trying to hold aggro, threat is at a premium.


Trying it last night we never got to phase 2 either on 25man, and would always get overwhelmed once her shield was around 25%. The first few attempts I would try to gather all adds, but eventually I just stopped trying to tank the adherants and had the DPS burn them first instead. They die incredibly fast, and healing any bolts they managed to get out wasn't an issue.

The problem we ran into was just plain not having the DPS to keep the fight going smoothly, while at the same time keeping enough DPS on the boss to actually get through the first phase in a reasonable amount of time. Might be going in for another attempt tonight, but after one shotting Marrowgar it's a little discouraging.

My group is mostly in 245 gear. I think we just need to better coordinate to get through this encounter.

Baervar
12-13-2009, 04:47 PM
The big, enraged/mutant adds was our downfall last night. Its definitely a challenging tanking assignment but our biggest problem came when the empowered mobs would stack up on one side (usually the side opposite where I was) and start taking people out.

As a warrior, the hardest thing for me was gathering the three adds as they spawn. It worked really well having a DPS DK drop D&D on the third spawn point while I stradled the other two and picking them all up there, peeling the 3rd off the DK. From that point, shockwave is your friend. Spell reflect is helpful too. I'm considering going back to imp but with all those mobs and trying to hold aggro, threat is at a premium.

We never made it to phase 2 but we got some reps in on it.


Don't bother tanking one caster, just have dps focus him first while preferably having someone who can interrupt there. Meanwhile focus on charging the other caster and taunting the melee to you or just tanking 2 melees depending on the case. That's how we did it at least.

Our big issue was when she empowered diformed "what's their name", like you mentioned, and dispels didn't go off on time - those things can go through tanks like a knife through butter (i've felt it on my skin while tanking the 10man). As a small addendum here - i did actually kite 1 or 2 diformed adds in 10 man as tank while i called out dps to bring it down; it's got a slow movespeed and it generally was brought down before hitting me more than once. This, of course, if you can afford to kite him at the moment.

Anyway this really was an awesomely designed encountered, enjoyed every second of it from the whipes to the kill :)

zortax4484
12-13-2009, 07:46 PM
I glanced through the comments and didn't see it asked, so I figured I'd throw it out there.

In regards to the Frostbolt in phase 2, can a warrior tank Spell Reflect it?

Becken
12-13-2009, 08:35 PM
I dont know if ne one already have posted this addition to the strat but... Last thuesday while we were wiping on Deathwisper and I had the idea... put the 1st group of mele on the boss when we had done with adds and the 2nd group at the back to kill the extra add. So we had alot more dps on Deathwisper and less mele fooling arround and wasting time on running. witch is werry helpfull when your ranged dont dps enought to drop her shild down before she enrage and wipe us all...

Celwindia
12-13-2009, 11:41 PM
For what it's worth I figured I'd point out a few things that helped us finally overcome this encounter in 25-man, when it was such a breeze on 10-man.

The fanatics, at least, can be hex'd and poly'd. It appears that they can also be disarmed in the normal version. We would hex one of the Fanatics from the left side so it's easier for melee to dodge only 1 cleave.

We found that an Adherent could effectively be stun-locked from 51% on, so they didn't get a chance to put up spell reflect. As we were a very caster-heavy makeup tonight, this was a huge help for us as well.

If the mob in the rear was a Fanatic, the tank would bring it up the middle a little bit, and the ranged that were assigned to the boss would turn and burn it, and then return to the boss. If it was a caster, she would call out for the melee on the left to come burn after their adherent was dead.

As a Resto Druid, I would pop into bear and taunt Deformed Fanatics away from the tank to avoid them being one-shot. Their slow movement speed allowed time for ranged to burn it while it traveled to me, and if needed, back to the original tank.

Hope this helps you guys. 10-man was pretty much a breeze, we only kept 1 DPS on the boss, while the rest burned adds and then spent the next 20 seconds on Deathwhisper.

manicus
12-14-2009, 01:15 AM
I glanced through the comments and didn't see it asked, so I figured I'd throw it out there.

In regards to the Frostbolt in phase 2, can a warrior tank Spell Reflect it?

I didn't dare to try. :-)

I think i might have been very unpopular if had spell reflected and died. I'll try next lockout.

Quinafoi
12-14-2009, 07:48 AM
A little out of the box thinking for you.

My 25 man is a very ranged heavy raid and the basic strategy seems to rely a decent mix of melee dps and ranged dps. To compensate for this we are experimenting with a very different strategy than what is the standard.

We actually have ranged dps and healers on the far back wall behind the boss spread out between the two pillars on the back wall (not the pillars in front of the boss but on the wall itself). Frost traps are left on the sides of elevator slowing any incoming adds from instantly charging in and killing a healer. Healers all get agro at the start and effectively pull all the mobs over to the boss. Adherants since they are casters will typically stop at the bottom of the stairs to cast at the healers. We have a death knight death grip the one from the left side (the side with 2 fanatics and 1 adherant into a decent spot right next to the boss). The adherants on the right side are burned down by the melee DPS at the bottom of the stairs. The three actual tanks focus solely on picking up the Fanatics and getting them on top of the boss. These adds do not suffer from AoE damage reduction. This is where our odd raid make up actually comes out ahead. Our heavy ranged DPS AoEs the trash right on top of the boss. The waves die before the next one spawns. And we have significantly higher damage being done to the mana shield. Our raid hasn't fully perfected the technique yet, but because of the added AoE damage on the boss phase one will take about 25-33% the time. I should add that not all of the ranged DPS simply AoEs. It is important to still have a few specifically dedicated to single target burning of Fanatics, especially reanimated or deformed. Also because of the frost traps near the elevator, deformed fanatics are simply ping ponged around by tanks taunting and ranged DPS pulling agro until they are dead.

This technique makes it a bit harder to pick up the adds since tanks aren't picking them up immediately, but rather when they get to the stairs so it does require a bit of practice. My raid hasn't killed her yet in 25 man but I suspect this is the technique which will work for us.

*edit* Should also note, spell reflect has no impact on AoE. Because of this even if Adherants are in the AoE our casters don't have to worry about them. It's actually better if they are cause they will die faster.

Quinafoi
12-14-2009, 08:16 AM
I should add that if you wanted to use a variation on this technique even with a balanced group of melee and ranged dps, or a melee heavy group, the basic point of the technique is to bring all the adds closer together. This also serves melee DPS as well since they have less running around to do.

Daimon
12-14-2009, 09:01 AM
The fight is very easy in 10m, we had 2 melee full time on the boss, healers in stairs in front of the boss and the rest in the room area, 1 tank in each side.
In 10 man there are not many choices, but the fight is pretty easy, the 2 adds before the boss wiped like 3 times and we 1 shoot her lol.

But how about is in 25m? You must split dps on boss and adds depending how much HP they have, any good idea? Similar like thorim, half and half, or melee on boss, range on adds?

Rhastah
12-14-2009, 10:15 AM
A little out of the box thinking for you.

We actually have ranged dps and healers on the far back wall behind the boss spread out between the two pillars on the back wall (not the pillars in front of the boss but on the wall itself). Frost traps are left on the sides of elevator slowing any incoming adds from instantly charging in and killing a healer. Healers all get agro at the start and effectively pull all the mobs over to the boss.

does anyone have a video of this strategy? i'm interested in trying it with my guild and wanna know how it works. Seems to me you could CC two of the casters and maybe 1 melee, then have your melee focus down casters one by one, casters focus down melee as they're coming to you, and keep dps'ing the boss the whole time.

also curious if the pillars can be used to los the casters and bring them in closer, or if you have to use a dk to ice grip them. mainly just wanna see a vid of this technique if anyone knows of one please link.

Quinafoi
12-14-2009, 11:14 AM
does anyone have a video of this strategy? i'm interested in trying it with my guild and wanna know how it works. Seems to me you could CC two of the casters and maybe 1 melee, then have your melee focus down casters one by one, casters focus down melee as they're coming to you, and keep dps'ing the boss the whole time.

also curious if the pillars can be used to los the casters and bring them in closer, or if you have to use a dk to ice grip them. mainly just wanna see a vid of this technique if anyone knows of one please link.

Sadly I haven't found any strategy posts or videos similar to the method adapted in my raid. A lot of people are using the conventional strategy documented in the Tank Spot video, bosskillers, and other such strategy forums.

One additional change we were considering though doesn't really seem necessary is we were considering having two paladin healers with Righteous Fury healing from behind the pillars in front of the boss to cause a similar luring effect. Though since the net result is similar to having all the healers and ranged stand against the back wall I didn't see much point. The Adherants have to get into range of the back which is near the bottom of the stairs and about the same position as they would be by baiting them with people standing behind the pillars.

CC can be used, though I'd advise against it in general. If you have cooldowns to spend on CC, you could be killing the mob faster. The only real CC needed should be snare effects like Frost Trap and Earthbind.

My raid generally has 9-10 ranged and only 5-6 melee. We have all the melee DPS on the side with the two adherants kill them at the bottom of the stairs with one exception being the death knight in the raid responsible for picking up the Adherant on the other side. Instead of the melee needing to run like 30 yards to get to the boss or get to the next add, they only have to move like 10 yards which makes their job a little easier as well.

We haven't killed Lady Deathwhisper yet, for a while we were trying to use the standard Strategy and weren't making much progress due to the low number of melee DPS. We adapted the strategy to better suit our raid comp and as a result were getting her mana shield to lowered significantly faster as well as still managing to clean up the adds before the next wave. Our best attempt so far I believe we had her around 1 million mana left on the mana shield before things just fell apart. We also ran out of time in raid to work on the technique further but were doing quite well with it. Trying to do the standard strategy we were only getting the mana shield to like 60% before being overrun by adds generally.

*edit* Also an annoyance for the death knight is sometimes the single Adherant on the left side (the side he has to death grip) sometimes has their spell reflect up as it gets into position. Not the end of the world but does delay it sometimes in getting that particular mob into position. A raid with more DKs could potentally deathgrip all the adherants and thus have all the mobs in the AoE, my raid only has one DK and the strategy accounts for that.

Craxs
12-14-2009, 01:06 PM
First, this is *much* easier on 10-man. Burn the three adds, then the shield. Rinse. Repeat. The only thing to be cautious of is dropping the shield when there are no adds up.

25-man is another story, at least for us so far. Since we haven't downed here, I won't bore you with our strat ideas / attempts. However, I do have a few observations:

1. Empowering appears to be a 2-step process. When she empowers fanatics once, they get the damage buff / self heal. If she empowers them while they have this, they transform. When she empowers adherents, they get the shield. If she empowers them while they have the shield, they start AoEing their Shadowfrost bolt. The first empower does not change the add's name; the second does.

2. Deathgrip does not work on shielded adherents. In fact, it will pull the DK *to* the Adherent (which could actually be useful...). Corollary: taunt does not work when the adherents are shielded. This one I'm not 100% certain on as I usually had pretty good aggro on adherents, but I believe it to be the case.

3. If an add martyrs themselves, they come back with any empowering buffs they had at the time. I've seen adherents pop up with the shield on. I do not believe the transformed fanatics can martyr.

The standard strat has not yet worked for us (we've tried a few variants as well). This could be low raid DPS or it could be our odd mixture of range/melee (4-6 melee, 10-12 ranged - typically 1 hunter).

Fluxx
12-14-2009, 01:10 PM
Our guild could not get him down the first 2 trys because the zombies hit hard on 1 tank so our first 1 tank tanking 1 side and the other tanking the other side did not work out. We had 2 tanks at 1 side at a time so 1 could pickup the zombie and the other the normal adds. (note this was on 10m) after this tack it was just a matter of finetuning we got him on the second try on the new tack

Skraeps
12-14-2009, 01:22 PM
Aye, what exactly happened at 3:33-3:34?

Daimon
12-14-2009, 08:07 PM
What about if you burn her mana nuking with every dps? tonight we assigned 8 dps from 16 just to deal with the boss, ending the 1st wave she was at 66% mana, with all the DPS we'd be able to get her at 30%~ just w the 1st wave up, so tanks must hold 14~ mobs by themselves before she get depleted.

Would that work? then DPS the adds and then boss, looks simple right?

Helistar
12-15-2009, 01:16 AM
The final tricks up Deathwhisper's sleeves, at least for phase 1, come in the form of spells she casts on her Cultist minions. Deathwhisper can empower a cultist, granting it a couple extra abilities. Empowered Adherents can cast a magic shield and a dangerous AOE, while empowered Fanatics will deal increased damage and heal for 300% of the damage they deal. These are somewhat dangerous, but it appears that they can be purged or possibly even spellstolen.

Any confirmation of this? Since it sounded dangerous we had one mage try to spellsteal, with no effect, but it could be that she was not targeting the mob I had in mind (there's a bit of chaos when the adds arrive/are buffed/resurrect, too many mob types...).
In the end we ignored almost anything (it was 10-man) except for the "immune" ones which required focusing from the appropriate DPS. The mutated things hit for around 25k, but they die fast, so I think I ended up tanking them (I was just close by...). I get the idea that this kind of approach may not cut it in 25-man.

Jones
12-15-2009, 08:35 AM
A couple notes from my guild's attempts (and eventual success) on our first night in 25 man:

- As someone above said, don't worry about tanking Adherents. If your tank can get them, great, but it's not priority #1. Just have them focused down first while the tank picks up the other mobs on each side. If there's more than one on your side, might not be a bad idea to split off a dps or two for interrupts.

- We had our third tank actually pull the mob from the stairs over to one of the groups, using LoS or having a free DK Death Grip it over. That way, cleave/AoE damage hits it too, and there's no "clean up" after the waves from the side are down.

- We also assigned someone on each side to mark a focus target, and we had ALL dps burn down one or the other, then go to Deathwhisper. We found this helped us keep the add waves under control AND get the shield down much easier. Basically, just split your dps into left side and right side, and follow the focus targets. This also made switching easier for when adds became immune to one type of damage or the other - we split dps evenly, and anyone who couldn't do good damage to the current target either switched to a different one or got on Deathwhisper while the effective dps burned the buffed add - since everyone is focused on the adds to start, there's less reaction time involved in looking for the correct target.

- To help facilitate this, we had our tanks on each side gather the mobs on the nearest set of steps to Deathwhisper. If they had to kite due to one being empowered/mutated, they'd kite the add to Deathwhisper, and any remaining adds on that side would be finished off by the boss, so that melee had a shorter run. You could potentially drag them to her as the Adherents are being killed, but we didn't want to run into LoS problems with the pillars and felt control was more important.

Using this strat instead of splitting dps between adds and boss, we were able to get her down with a lot of breathing room on the enrage timer. Depending on your raid and raid strengths, it's definitely a feasible alternative.

Olat
12-15-2009, 09:11 AM
A few tips my guild saw from our Eventual Downing of her on 25m.

1. Warrior / Druid Tanking for the Right side of the room to deal with the double Adherent's. DK Tanks and Pally tanks use mostly magical attacks to get threat and thereby have a hard time getting any aggro. Even then like someone before me posted. Don't try to actually tank them just taunt them as best as you can and let your melee destroy them.

2. DK Tank for the Left side (My-Self) was quite useful, dropping DnD between 2 spawns on the left and having the healers in the middle FORCED 2 of the adds to walk through DnD and then Deathgrip one mob into it.

3. Due to the mob pathing issues (The mobs always walking through the tank and hitting him from behind if he tries to back up) I would always grab the fanatic's and back my self up against one of the walls that jutted out from an alcove.

4. DK DPS is better spent on the Boss due to 50% or more of all three current specs is Magical Dmg. Even Blood DPS DK's would benefit due to the ability to put the diseases on the target. Increasing the DMG output with HS on Lady Deathwhisper. Rather then having them spam HS and DS on an non-diseased Adherent due to the reflect shield.

*5. Deformed Fanatics. An EXCELLENT way to deal with them is to have one of the hunters (Who is dedicated to the side's due to Physical (Autoshot+ more) and Magical (Special Shots) for the adds) Distracting shot and then kite the Deformed, as all Caster DPS stops on Lady Deathwhisper and burns it down.

Olat
12-15-2009, 09:13 AM
What about if you burn her mana nuking with every dps? tonight we assigned 8 dps from 16 just to deal with the boss, ending the 1st wave she was at 66% mana, with all the DPS we'd be able to get her at 30%~ just w the 1st wave up, so tanks must hold 14~ mobs by themselves before she get depleted.

Would that work? then DPS the adds and then boss, looks simple right?

My guild gave this Burn Method a shot. We got her shield down to like 20% but this was at the expense of the Tanks getting Overwhelmed on the sides.

Each Fanatic cleaves for 14k + and a tank having 3+ Fanatics is getting beat on pretty bad. So unless you can burn her down in under 2 waves. You might see your tanks dropping like flies. Not including the Scourge Strike that absorbs the good chunk of healing. So having that get reapplied constantly, makes healing your tanks an impossibility.

Predakhan
12-15-2009, 01:04 PM
Any confirmation of this? Since it sounded dangerous we had one mage try to spellsteal, with no effect, but it could be that she was not targeting the mob I had in mind (there's a bit of chaos when the adds arrive/are buffed/resurrect, too many mob types...).
In the end we ignored almost anything (it was 10-man) except for the "immune" ones which required focusing from the appropriate DPS. The mutated things hit for around 25k, but they die fast, so I think I ended up tanking them (I was just close by...). I get the idea that this kind of approach may not cut it in 25-man.

We downed her last night but our mages and shammies said they couldn't spell steal or purge anything from the adds. Would love confirmation as well.

Tygorl
12-15-2009, 07:36 PM
Sadly I haven't found any strategy posts or videos similar to the method adapted in my raid. A lot of people are using the conventional strategy documented in the Tank Spot video, bosskillers, and other such strategy forums.

Our resident priest & TS friend Holyjebus suggested we do this 'alternate' strat 3 nights ago, after I'd already pulled the boss & I thought it'd be a great idea. While it didn't work well for us the first time with an 'on the fly' change of tactics, our next couple of attempts were a vast improvement on the conventional tactic once everyone got used to the new positioning. We're still on the comeback from a month off raiding, so the guild's not quite at our former strength yet, however we will have a DrJubali HD video of this on our forums when we kill her (hopefully tonight's raid - Aussie time) since we ran out of raid time 3 nights ago.

edit: here's the kill video link Ordnance Videos - Ordnance Home (http://www.ordnance-guild.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=56)

Tygorl
12-16-2009, 04:39 AM
Yup, we managed to get the kill on her tonight using our alternate strat of stacking up near the boss. Video will be up tomorrow - (today afternoon for u americans). Ordnance Videos - Ordnance Home (http://www.ordnance-guild.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=56) is where it will appear. It was horribly messy right at the end when we hit the enrage, but we were happy to down her since we're rebuilding after a break & have some inexperience in our raid currently so our dps isn't at it's usual standard. Other than that I was happy with our overall control.

Olat
12-16-2009, 04:47 AM
We downed her last night but our mages and shammies said they couldn't spell steal or purge anything from the adds. Would love confirmation as well.

You can purge Dark Empowerment, if I recall correctly.

Cardnialsyn
12-16-2009, 04:50 AM
Had trouble with the High Priest trash mobs first off. Dragged one deep into an alcove where the boss encounter adds spawn, strafed around so the tanks back was out of the alcove. This way only the tank was getting hit by the AoE which is similar to Baron Riverdale's aura from Stratholm in Vanilla. While you can burn the mob toe to toe with the raid, why bother, this way is much less stress on the healers.

For the Boss encounter we had both tanks on adds... Burn the casters, then burn then melee. Priority to the misshapen or empowereds... When there is only one melee add left melee switches to boss and a few seconds later all the ranged joins them. New adds in aprox 15-20 seconds... Bloodlust after first wave of adds is down... Rinse and repeat till shield drops. Boss is very squishy...her spell is quick and difficult to time interrupts on... Burn her fast, tanks taunt at 2-3 stacks of the debuff.

Fun fight! Just make sure you mark kill targets during Phase one and call out for melee to switch to boss etc.

Quinafoi
12-16-2009, 07:18 AM
Yup, we managed to get the kill on her tonight using our alternate strat of stacking up near the boss. Video will be up tomorrow - (today afternoon for u americans).

Glad to hear my crazy ideas are of use to someone. My raid doesn't run again until the weekend but should be able to take care of business this week.

Treston
12-16-2009, 08:19 AM
This fight seems to be one where 'who does what' specifically is determined quite a bit by your actual raid comp. The strat we've used twice now to get the job done called for 2 melee to sit on the boss while the ranged (plus one more melee one night) took out the adds with the tank.

I presume that this worked out for us mainly because we had both a solid magic based dps (warlock then mage) and solid physical dps (2 hunters, plus a warrior the first night) taking care of the adds.

Without that configuration I suspect things would have been very different. Say if all our ranged were casters with no hunter to back it up, we'd have to pull one of the melee off the boss to take care of the magic immunes.

On the plus side, having all or most of the melee on the boss means that the empowered adherents get a lot less deadly. They're being focused down by the range, true, but there's also less people in close proximity getting hit by their aoe deathchill blasts.

Perhaps next week we'll get to see what it looks like to down her with no one dying, but on both kills so far one or both of our melee weren't paying attention or listening to vent and dropped the shield while adds were still being cleared.

Quinafoi
12-16-2009, 09:36 AM
This fight seems to be one where 'who does what' specifically is determined quite a bit by your actual raid comp. The strat we've used twice now to get the job done called for 2 melee to sit on the boss while the ranged (plus one more melee one night) took out the adds with the tank.

I presume that this worked out for us mainly because we had both a solid magic based dps (warlock then mage) and solid physical dps (2 hunters, plus a warrior the first night) taking care of the adds.

Without that configuration I suspect things would have been very different. Say if all our ranged were casters with no hunter to back it up, we'd have to pull one of the melee off the boss to take care of the magic immunes.

On the plus side, having all or most of the melee on the boss means that the empowered adherents get a lot less deadly. They're being focused down by the range, true, but there's also less people in close proximity getting hit by their aoe deathchill blasts.

Perhaps next week we'll get to see what it looks like to down her with no one dying, but on both kills so far one or both of our melee weren't paying attention or listening to vent and dropped the shield while adds were still being cleared.

I'm assuming this is talking about 10 man and not 25 man. It isn't really feasible to have ranged only on adds in 25 man simply because the spell reflect will make half of them useless. In 10 man the entire fight is trivialized, just watch your boss mod timers. When adds are spawning, everyone just gank them as fast as possible and get back on the boss.

Tygorl
12-16-2009, 05:09 PM
Glad to hear my crazy ideas are of use to someone. My raid doesn't run again until the weekend but should be able to take care of business this week.

Definitely. Holyjebus actually came up with it during last week's raid & it seemed to work really well for us once everyone got control over their adds. We didn't even know if it was a viable or even thought up strat at the time, but it definitely helped us with the mana shield on the boss being taken down by aoe on the melee mobs when we tanked them next to the boss.

It may suit some guilds if they're carrying folks with lower dps or less raid experience than the guild is used to having, which is our current situation. Our raid makeup is probably about 30% new faces due to some folks being on holidays/computer issues etc so we've had some casuals stepping up into slots & accepted a couple of recruits who are less experienced & a smidge under our gear level to get numbers.

edit: HD version is up. Ordnance Videos (http://www.ordnance-guild.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=56)

Zendyth
12-16-2009, 05:57 PM
i wish ppl would stop going on about how easy 10 man is. theres barely any comments about 25man.
I'm interested in this tactic. Have you tried tanking the adds until 2nd phase and just nuking the boss quickly so no more adds spawn and then killing the adds while in phase 2 (in 25 man). I know there would be a problem with a tank taking the boss but i thought someone might have tried this?

Wars
12-16-2009, 06:06 PM
From what I have seen in the two weeks we have killed her in 25man, we have not had even the closest ability to just "nuke her down." And then kill adds in 25man.

Here is the log of our kill:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis (http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-oo021tct34jj6k6r/sum/damageDone/?s=7818&e=8375)

Basically that was with all ranged dps(magic) on the Reanimated Fanatics(need spell damage) and then them also switching onto Deformed X as well. They were on boss about 80% of the time.

I highly doubt you could nuke her down without getting completely overrun with adds, on 25man at least.

The fight isn't overly difficult as it is. Unless you are going for the achievement, no reason to hold the adds. The deformed fanatics would have to be kited full-time anyway if/when you are going to do this(unless that is the one type of add you are going to kill).

Mr.Winkle
12-17-2009, 05:34 AM
i wish ppl would stop going on about how easy 10 man is. theres barely any comments about 25man.
I'm interested in this tactic. Have you tried tanking the adds until 2nd phase and just nuking the boss quickly so no more adds spawn and then killing the adds while in phase 2 (in 25 man). I know there would be a problem with a tank taking the boss but i thought someone might have tried this?

Why not just give it some thought yourself.

The bosses Mana shield has 14m HP.
A good 25man raid will have something like 125k DPS
It would take apporximately 112 seconds too destroy the barrier leaving you with between 21 and 28 adds to kill.

However i'd imagine 28 adds may well be to many for the tanks to tank, plus factor in that you'll have some mutated adds and it doesn't look to feasable to me.

If you're looking for the easiest option just split the raid dps half left/half right and gank each add in turn before dpsing the boss for a bit.

plitschplatsch
12-17-2009, 03:04 PM
We tried the standard strategy last reset (2 dps teams, one on each side) and the alternative today.
It was the impression of everyone that the alternative works much smoother.
We will probably stick with it.
A few things:

+ you can walk to the back if you hug the wall without aggroing the boss
+ the dps was much higher. Melee doesn't have to run that much, AOE on the melee adds is higher than single targeting them down

- mind controlled raiders, especially melee, can easily die from AOE. We decided to stop AOE when mind control is coming up
- melee easily die from cleaves. picking up the melee and bunching them up is very chaotic. we ceased to put melee on the bunched up adds at all, they were on casters that stood away

Suicyco
12-18-2009, 05:08 PM
Sorry I didn't have time to parse this entire thread or go through my logs completely so I apologize if I repeat something already said but I just thought I'd mention a few things we've noticed in last night's 10 man. I think Pali's can cleanse touch of insignificance during phase 2, my debuff killer popped up while tanking her and I hit cleanse and actually solo tanked her the whole stage (off tank died from bad luck, a frostbolt, 2 skeleton adds and a big ugly with busy healers - crazy mage agro from bubble steal at the wrong time) I never lost agro during phase 2 even though I was at the ninth application of touch, I just kept hitting cleanse every time it lit up. This may be intentional or it may not <shrug> I'll try it again tonight on 25 man.
Also mages can spell steal one of the adds bubbles gaining a HUGE increase to dps for a short period of time. Mage went from 6.5K dps to about 10K right after saying hey I just spell stole his bubble... on a side note his threat went from a steady 5K tps to about an instant 8k tps on the add our off tank was on <chuckle> but he had a great time stealing the bubble from the add every time it was available after he contributed to our ot's death. Initially we were going to wipe it but the mana shield was at about 5% so we kept going. Any insight as to if Touch is intentionally removable and strats around mages spell stealing bubbles for huge burst dps would be nice to read through.

Suicyco
12-18-2009, 05:25 PM
We downed her last night but our mages and shammies said they couldn't spell steal or purge anything from the adds. Would love confirmation as well.

No, mages can definitely steal one of the add's bubbles I believe it's one that grants AOE and uninterpretable giving your mage a really sweet burst of dps. Just watch out for the insta threat they can get. I dont know yet if it works in 25 man. Once our mage figured out he could spell steal he did so every opportunity he had which really helped with bubbled adds. It's only one of the bubbles though the other he couldn't touch. It seemed I could cleanse Touch <confirmation would be awesome>, I had 9 applications / stacks solo mt'ing her and never lost threat and was cleansing every time my bar lit up. It may have been coincidence that it lit up every time she applied touch ?? but cleanse would cast and my threat stayed relatively steady the entire fight.

Sorry for reposting what I basically said in the previous post

Quinafoi
12-18-2009, 11:25 PM
Got back in there tonight and one shot her in 25 man using the AoE strategy and standing behind the boss we came up with last week.

Wars
12-18-2009, 11:30 PM
I tried the behind the boss strat, and we failed miserably. I don't understand how it is quicker to kill them behind the boss when they take longer to get there! We could literally burn all the adds in 20 seconds max when we're already in the alcoves waiting for the spawn.

luv2tank
12-19-2009, 12:08 AM
We 5 heal-2 to 3 tank this. 4 dps on right and left side. Not just average dps, solid heavy hitters. We stack the double fanatic side up w/ 2 mages + hunter + melee druid. We stack the double adherent side up w/ 2 rogues + hunter + Spriest. We have healers on the back wall. The middle tank is kind of free lance-meaning if he gets a fanatic he brings it to the pally tank side and the paladin takes it from him. If he gets an adherent he has 2 melee dps w/ him he can call on for dps. Everyone else we leave on the boss to burn down. Usually, takes about 2 waves to bring her down 50 % or so pending there are no reanimated adds. We call for help from the ppl staying on the boss exclusively if we need and we require a lot of raid response time for help. Other than that just rinse and repeat-phase 2 the tanks just taunt at 3 stacks of the debuff-everyone is on interrupts-kite the adds and bloodlust. Makes for about a 1-2 min burn phase.

Bnol
12-19-2009, 01:48 AM
I tried the behind the boss strat, and we failed miserably. I don't understand how it is quicker to kill them behind the boss when they take longer to get there! We could literally burn all the adds in 20 seconds max when we're already in the alcoves waiting for the spawn.

You don't kill the adds quicker, but you increase dps going out because the melee dps can stay on the boss longer, has a shorter distance to run between the mobs and/or Deathwhisper, and the ranged can stack aoes on one group of melee mobs and the aoe is hitting Deathwhisper as well. I wouldn't change if the traditional strat is working but for people who can't burn the adds quick enough could try this strat because there is less dps downtime and more ability to AOE.

Quinafoi
12-19-2009, 11:38 AM
You don't kill the adds quicker, but you increase dps going out because the melee dps can stay on the boss longer, has a shorter distance to run between the mobs and/or Deathwhisper, and the ranged can stack aoes on one group of melee mobs and the aoe is hitting Deathwhisper as well. I wouldn't change if the traditional strat is working but for people who can't burn the adds quick enough could try this strat because there is less dps downtime and more ability to AOE.

That's the basic purpose of the strategy. For raids who were doing Trial of the Grand Crusader and running around with 5 people doing 10k DPS on Anub'arak the fight is going to be easy regardless. Even if your DPS doesn't have high activity because they have to run around more, because they are so much higher on DPS raid DPS still exceeds the necessary quotas for the encounter.

The point to the strategy of taking everything to the back of the room is to get things closer together so there is always something for your DPS to DPS, if nothing else, they can beat on the boss. So while your individuals may not be pulling off significantly high numbers, your raid can still meet the necessary quotas by instead of just saying "DPS quit sucking and do more" to instead increase the active time of the DPS. 6,000 DPS at 100% activity nets the same damage as 10,000 DPS at 60% activity.

If your raid has less total DPS, you need to increase their activity to compensate.

Radius
12-21-2009, 12:39 PM
Are all of the Deformed/Empowered/Reanimated Adherant/Fanitics immune to their opposite damage type? With all the strats lumping them together and people screwing up their names in strats and posts, I just wanted to ask.

Seems to me that all the Reanimated (skeletons) are immune. The empowered adherants have a shield that must be burned down by melee. And the Deformed Fanatics must be kited because they hit like trucks and heal that ammountx3.

Reev
12-21-2009, 12:40 PM
The easy thing for me has just been to tell melee/physical dealers to kill all kinds of adherents, and tell magical damage dealers to kill all kinds of fanatics. You can tell them that there are 3 types of each if you like, but to keep it simple, Fanatics = Kill with Magic Damage. Adherents = Kill with Physical.

Quinafoi
12-21-2009, 12:52 PM
The easy thing for me has just been to tell melee/physical dealers to kill all kinds of adherents, and tell magical damage dealers to kill all kinds of fanatics. You can tell them that there are 3 types of each if you like, but to keep it simple, Fanatics = Kill with Magic Damage. Adherents = Kill with Physical.

The AoE strategy as a few aspects to it.

1. The melee still has to kill the Adherants, usually by the bottom of the stairs. Sometimes you can deathgrip them into the AoE provided the spell reflect isn't up. AoE can't be reflected regardless.

2. Some of the casters aren't AoEing. Most are, but you still need some assigned to single target focus fire on Fanatics, in particular any Deformed of Reanimated ones. Because you have some people who are doing single target DPS instead of AoE DPS, generally don't stick your raid dunce in this role who will cast on an Adherant and kill themselves. Also generally you'd have your main DPS assist be one of the two to three ranged set in the non-AoE role.

Zendyth
12-21-2009, 06:27 PM
My guild were sturggling with 25 man last week, wiped so man times. I'm an MM hunter. But today we 2nd shotted it. Everything just came together.

1. 2 grps on left and right and 1 tank on stairs at back.

2. 5 dps on boss. We used 2 hunters, 1 shadow Priest, 1 ret Pala, 1 Boomkin. they must be good dps! all doing over 5k.

3. Grp on the left (if your facing the boss) had 1 tank 3 magic dps and 3 phsical dps. Grp on the right had 1 tank, 2 magic and 4 physical dps. 1 tank tanking add at the back. 6 healers in total, 1 on each tank and 3 on raid.

4. We nuked adds with about 10-15 secs remaining and so could get in about 1 rotation on boss before being on adds again. I think we had about 6 rotations of adds.

NOTES : my grp on left had the mage in our grp sheep the fanatic closest the door every time new adds spawned while the tank tanked the adherent from the middle and fanatic closest boss. We nuked the fanatic first then caster then the sheep. then we all helped kill add at the back quickly. Other side were doing similar thing.

Whenever Deformed add spawned EVERYONE including boss dps nuked it as it cannot be tanked. The boss dps (all being physical) also helped on reanimated adherents sometimes too.

The reanimated and demormed adds are your priority.

Make sure you have a sharp witted mage or 2 always ready to sheep mind controlled player.

And 2 nd phase is a bit of a walk really, just interupt forstbolt and run from ghosts. Think tanks swapped occasionally too.

Hope this was of use to some ppl. Last week for us it looked unbeatable, but don't give up!!! this encounter is just about good communication (everyone in vent) and awareness because of the many different add scenarios possible at any time.

Good luck

=)

p.s. i should mention now we 1 shotted Gunship battle after that (EASY!) but are now wiping on Saurfang. We only gave him 2 tries and got to under 30% but then he just heals back up to almost 50%. Defo gonna be some wipes on him.

Jimmyzee
12-22-2009, 11:56 AM
Our big question is can Shroud of the Occult be spellstolen/purged??

Our 10 man keeps getting hooped because of the shields. Could this be not enough focused dps on 1 at a time or should we be ae'ing everything??

thanks for any tips.

Quinafoi
12-22-2009, 12:10 PM
Our big question is can Shroud of the Occult be spellstolen/purged??

Our 10 man keeps getting hooped because of the shields. Could this be not enough focused dps on 1 at a time or should we be ae'ing everything??

thanks for any tips.

In 10 man you should never use AoE on this encounter. The AoE strategy only applies to 25 man because AoE has a minimum number of targets to be viable. Only someone speced into improved AoE would be viable against something as low as 3 targets. The AoE strategy for 25 man is based off there being at least 3 fanatics which are melee that can be brought to the boss for sure to have 4 targets to AoE (which is break even point for most classes with AoE).

Your melee DPS needs to burn the adherants down first, focus fire one at a time. Since Adherants are casters, and also the boss is casting spells randomly as well, it doesn't really need a conventional tank since a conventional tank would only have a small magic damage reduction beyond what anyone would take. You only have 3 adds total in 10 man and worst case you only have 2 adherants (right side of the room facing the boss). Meanwhile your tanks and caster DPS would focus on the fanatics. If you're having trouble killing the adds quickly enough in 10 man it is possible you are simply undergeared or underperforming for the content.

homet
12-22-2009, 04:49 PM
I know this is beside the point, but I love the nameplate (like aloft, etc.) mod that Lore uses and I have not been able to identify it by sight on add-on web sites. If there is anyone out there who knows the name of this add-on,please let me know. Thank you.

Tygorl
12-22-2009, 05:47 PM
I know this is beside the point, but I love the nameplate (like aloft, etc.) mod that Lore uses and I have not been able to identify it by sight on add-on web sites. If there is anyone out there who knows the name of this add-on,please let me know. Thank you.

you'll likely find it here http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f211/45772-lores-ui.html

Ereren
12-23-2009, 06:07 PM
Our guild found it is a good idea to if you bring a class that can crowd control well (particularly a mage) into the group, to allocate one side for the that person to crowd control one of the adds, so there is less damage going out and tanks dont have to worry so much. Also, it could also be a good idea to put a class like a rogue or warrior up on Deathwhisper during Phase 1 to burn down her mana shield because they do consist damage and do not have to worry about going OOM.
:)

Panzerr
12-23-2009, 06:27 PM
In today's raid there was someone who said, that the adherents get shielded, when there is magical damage done to them. Is that true? Because that would make a warrior-tank almost a must for this encounter.

Quinafoi
12-23-2009, 08:04 PM
Our guild found it is a good idea to if you bring a class that can crowd control well (particularly a mage) into the group, to allocate one side for the that person to crowd control one of the adds, so there is less damage going out and tanks dont have to worry so much. Also, it could also be a good idea to put a class like a rogue or warrior up on Deathwhisper during Phase 1 to burn down her mana shield because they do consist damage and do not have to worry about going OOM.
:)

If you're casters dps is going OOM, they probably shouldn't be DPSing in Icecrown Citadel. However much DPS they do is only as valuable as their active time DPSing. If they are running out of mana that's a very serious problem. When melee DPS is beating on a boss, do you ever stop? Gee, my daggers are getting worn out, I should stop DPSing for a little while so I don't have to repair them. Of course not.

DPS is always looking for something to kill, and if they aren't they aren't doing their job.

The reason melee DPS would be on the boss is completely different. They would be on the boss because you either have too much melee in the raid and instead of having spare ranged, you have spare melee. Or because everything else is dead and they are doing their job, finding something else to kill.

Quinafoi
12-23-2009, 08:11 PM
In today's raid there was someone who said, that the adherents get shielded, when there is magical damage done to them. Is that true? Because that would make a warrior-tank almost a must for this encounter.

Adherants are casters and don't require a conventional tank, they are burned down by physical DPS. Only benefit a protection warrior would have over a rogue is the passive damage reduction of defensive stance. Magic damage is not mitigated by dodge, parry, block, or armor. Most raids won't even tell the tank to pick up adherants, they will ignore them and focus on picking up the Fanatics, the ones that actually do require a tank.

Panzerr
12-23-2009, 10:10 PM
Adherants are casters and don't require a conventional tank, they are burned down by physical DPS. Only benefit a protection warrior would have over a rogue is the passive damage reduction of defensive stance. Magic damage is not mitigated by dodge, parry, block, or armor. Most raids won't even tell the tank to pick up adherants, they will ignore them and focus on picking up the Fanatics, the ones that actually do require a tank.

Hm... we had about 5 wipes until we killed her tonight (10-Man). Most of the time we got overwhelmed by adherent adds.

We did it like that: One tank (me) picks up the Adherents (dps by 1 rogue and 1 hunter), and the other tank picks up the Fanatics (dps by casters, focus them down and then go back to Lady Deathwhisper). I'm not quite happy with this strategy, amongst other things because it involves switching targets a lot for all dps. So I'm trying to find one that fits for our raid-group.

But I found that there is a lot of conflicting information about this encounter. I hope you guys can help me here:

a) Can the Adherent-Shield (Shroud of the Occult (http://www.wowwiki.com/Lady_Deathwhisper)) be purged/stolen/whatever?

b) One wipe, our tree claimed he was silenced for a while. The only thing I can imagine this could come from would be Dominate Mind (http://www.wowwiki.com/Lady_Deathwhisper). Did they insert this into the 10-man encounter with 3.3a?

c) The 10-Man video suggests that all casters dps on the shield, while melee/hunters take care of the adds - unless they mutate (get empowered, transformed, resurrected and what not). So melee and tanks do the Adherents first and then the Fanatics (tanked)? I'm wondering because this differs from everything i read/saw so far.

d) Is it possible to drain the mana-shield of Lady Deathwhisper with Viper Sting / Manaburn e.a.?

EDIT: e) The video says that both Adh. and Fanatics can be Empowered / Transformed. »This (http://www.wowwiki.com/Lady_Deathwhisper) article however, says otherwise :(

Sorry for my english, I'm not a native speaker and it's 7am where I live :)

Thanks and merry xmas!

tuffmuffin
12-24-2009, 01:31 AM
a) Can the Adherent-Shield (Shroud of the Occult (http://www.wowwiki.com/Lady_Deathwhisper)) be purged/stolen/whatever?

b) One wipe, our tree claimed he was silenced for a while. The only thing I can imagine this could come from would be Dominate Mind (http://www.wowwiki.com/Lady_Deathwhisper). Did they insert this into the 10-man encounter with 3.3a?

c) The 10-Man video suggests that all casters dps on the shield, while melee/hunters take care of the adds - unless they mutate (get empowered, transformed, resurrected and what not). So melee and tanks do the Adherents first and then the Fanatics (tanked)? I'm wondering because this differs from everything i read/saw so far.

d) Is it possible to drain the mana-shield of Lady Deathwhisper with Viper Sting / Manaburn e.a.?

EDIT: e) The video says that both Adh. and Fanatics can be Empowered / Transformed. »This (http://www.wowwiki.com/Lady_Deathwhisper) article however, says otherwise :(
A) No. The shield deflects all such spells as the description implies, and must be burned through by physical DPS. Goes down quite fast from single target, and also note you can stun-lock Adherents to prevent more.

B) The only real "silence" from this fight is the Curse of Torpor that Adherents cast. It adds an additional 15 seconds to all ability cooldowns (Instant casts become 15 sec cooldowns, if the ability had a 6 sec cooldown it becomes 21, etc.) and must be decursed ASAP. There is no MC in 10-man.

C) There are numerous ways to do the fight. One of which is to have melee zerg the adds while ranged (throw Hunters around with either) DPS her. Find whatever works for your guild and stick with it.

D) Yes, but keep in mind that said abilities are capped at a percentage of the caster's mana pool. It's more effective to do a normal DPS rotation.

E) While Adherents and Fanatics will both be called "Reanimated" when Deathwhisper ressurects them, Empowerment and Transformation are very specific. Cult Adherents will ALWAYS be the recipient of Dark Empowerment and become an "Empowered Adherent". Cult Fanatics will ALWAYS be the recipient of Dark Transformation and become a "Deformed Fanatic". It can misleading depending on how it is written and the way you interpret it, but this is what they mean by it. Regardless, the result is the same; the mobs become more deadly so you want them dead ASAP.

Pots
12-24-2009, 03:24 AM
I apologize if someone has already mentioned this, but in this section from the first entry for 10 mans:
"To handle this phase, have your tank and melee DPS take care of the adds. They will alternately spawn on the left and right side in sets of three, so make sure your tank is always ready to pick up a new set. The left side will always spawn two fanatics and one adherent and the right side will always spawn two adherents and one fanatic. Should a reanimated adherent pop up, have your casters handle it. Most times however caster DPS should be available to damage Deathwhisper herself to deplete her mana shield. Making sure you keep up with adds while continuously draining Deathwhisper's mana is the whole trick to phase 1. "

Casters should DPS the reanimated fanatics, not the adherents. Its probably just a typo, but i would hate to see people confused.

Quinafoi
12-24-2009, 06:30 PM
a) Can the Adherent-Shield (Shroud of the Occult (http://www.wowwiki.com/Lady_Deathwhisper)) be purged/stolen/whatever?

A) No. The shield deflects all such spells as the description implies, and must be burned through by physical DPS. Goes down quite fast from single target, and also note you can stun-lock Adherents to prevent more.
I also believe Mass Dispell has no effect even though it is not a direct targeted spell, you could try it but DPS should be able to burn through the shield anyway provided you have a decent balance of physical and magic DPS. Spell reflect mechanics only work on directed spell effects, you can't reflect an AoE.


b) One wipe, our tree claimed he was silenced for a while. The only thing I can imagine this could come from would be Dominate Mind (http://www.wowwiki.com/Lady_Deathwhisper). Did they insert this into the 10-man encounter with 3.3a?

B) The only real "silence" from this fight is the Curse of Torpor that Adherents cast. It adds an additional 15 seconds to all ability cooldowns (Instant casts become 15 sec cooldowns, if the ability had a 6 sec cooldown it becomes 21, etc.) and must be decursed ASAP. There is no MC in 10-man.
Also note, DRUIDS CAN DECURSE. This should be their number one priority during phase 1. They likely need to invest in an addon like Decursive and learn to use it because there really is no excuse for a class that can decurse to not decurse themselves. This is a serious case of a player only performing part of their required raid function. I hate to say it but they either need to learn to play their role or be replaced. A raid has no chance of success if people can't perform the required duties.


c) The 10-Man video suggests that all casters dps on the shield, while melee/hunters take care of the adds - unless they mutate (get empowered, transformed, resurrected and what not). So melee and tanks do the Adherents first and then the Fanatics (tanked)? I'm wondering because this differs from everything i read/saw so far.

C) There are numerous ways to do the fight. One of which is to have melee zerg the adds while ranged (throw Hunters around with either) DPS her. Find whatever works for your guild and stick with it.
Physical DPS has to be used on adherants because there is a chance at anytime for a spell reflect shield to show up that could easily kill a caster in combination with other damage done by the boss. Adherants are caster mobs which do not require a conventional tank. Just stun lock and burn it down with melee DPS. An actual tank only gets a minor mitigation bonus to spell damage (so instead of the spell hitting for 8k, it hits for 7k, not a huge difference). When adherants are reanimated they become 90% immune to magic damage. Fanatics are melee mobs that have to be tanked, they actually hit hard so tanking stats (armor, dodge, parry, block) all come into play. These adds can be killed by physical DPS after they have killed all the Adherants, though magic dps can be used on them as well. When Fanatics are Reanimated, they are 90% immune to physical damage and MUST be killed by magic damage. WHen Fanatics are Deformed, they must be killed by magic DPS and kited (they hit much harder when deformed and heal significantly). If you are having problems dealing with the adds, you likely should have ALL your DPS switch to them when they spawn, kill them fast, and then all switch to the boss waiting for the next wave to spawn.


d) Is it possible to drain the mana-shield of Lady Deathwhisper with Viper Sting / Manaburn e.a.?

D) Yes, but keep in mind that said abilities are capped at a percentage of the caster's mana pool. It's more effective to do a normal DPS rotation.
Statically it is never worth while for a DPS to do this. A discipline priest running with like 30,000 mana and speced into Improved Mana burn would be doing the equivalent of 4500 DPS to the boss. You need a very large mana pool and have to be speced into Improved Mana Burn for it to be even considered. Generally though your DPS will be higher than the effect of Mana Burn, so a Shadow Priest would never consider it.

Panzerr
12-25-2009, 06:02 AM
Thx guys, helped me a lot :).

Merry xmas! :D

Swords
12-27-2009, 08:22 PM
While messing around in ICC one day, I came up with the simple idea of tanking melee adds on top of lady deathwisper (done in ten man). This set up was extreamly simple and helped to get through this boss VERY fast. I suggest anyone attempting this in ten man version to give it a shot. I did this because of...
1. When melee is killing casters the cleaving adds are way to far for them to get hit.
2. When they become reanimated range can just switch to them fast since there in front of them and melee can attack her shield while they burn down the add.
3. There is a tank ready to pick her up incase some one does not stop dpsing while adds are up =/

Hope this idea works and that ppl use it. Really helps out my guild when attempting her =D

Satyra
12-29-2009, 05:17 PM
We almost got this sucker down today, with only 2 casters.. The most chaotic fight that I have been healing lately.. We managed to bring down the shield but with the number off adds up, we wiped soon after. Next time we will bring a whole new setup and we will get her :)

amilo
12-30-2009, 02:38 PM
IMO the hardest part of this fight is simply finding the balance of proper dps on the boss to dps on the adds. I've only cleared it 10 man once by having all but one dps on the adds, killing them and getting a few shots on the boss then poping back to adds. we had a 5k+dps on the boss at all times. As long as you don't hit the enrage timer, usually the tanks and heals can handle an extra add phase or two before droping the mana shield so we timed the shield drop with only have 2 adds up and 15 secconds till next wave. unfortunatly we were soo focused on the first phase, suring phase 2 my OT died and had to be B'rez'd several times as no one was interupting the Frostbolts D:

Quinafoi
12-30-2009, 02:50 PM
IMO the hardest part of this fight is simply finding the balance of proper dps on the boss to dps on the adds. I've only cleared it 10 man once by having all but one dps on the adds, killing them and getting a few shots on the boss then poping back to adds. we had a 5k+dps on the boss at all times. As long as you don't hit the enrage timer, usually the tanks and heals can handle an extra add phase or two before droping the mana shield so we timed the shield drop with only have 2 adds up and 15 secconds till next wave. unfortunatly we were soo focused on the first phase, suring phase 2 my OT died and had to be B'rez'd several times as no one was interupting the Frostbolts D:

In 10 man it is likely wiser to simply have all the DPS kill the adds then switch back to the boss. Add control becomes easier when they are all dead. If you kill them 10 seconds faster, that's 10 less seconds you have to worry about controling them or them being buffed and health reset.

25 man is where you have to do more micro management because there are a lot more mobs to deal with. In 10 man, it's easier to just have everyone kill them, then switch back to the boss until your boss mod tells you its time for the next wave of adds.

Keep in mind however, if you assign less DPS to adds, the likelihood of an add that has taken damage being fully healed and transformed increases. If you did 75,000 damage to a mob, that went deformed, then you just wasted 75,000 damage because it was was all healed. If you apply more DPS to the target and it dies before getting buffed, granted you still have to watch for reanimated corpses, you don't have to worry about adds your currently working on being fully healed. The longer it takes you to kill the adds, the more damage that ends up wasted because it was healed.

Nightrida
12-30-2009, 09:28 PM
A little out of the box thinking for you.

My 25 man is a very ranged heavy raid and the basic strategy seems to rely a decent mix of melee dps and ranged dps. To compensate for this we are experimenting with a very different strategy than what is the standard.

We actually have ranged dps and healers on the far back wall behind the boss spread out between the two pillars on the back wall (not the pillars in front of the boss but on the wall itself). Frost traps are left on the sides of elevator slowing any incoming adds from instantly charging in and killing a healer. Healers all get agro at the start and effectively pull all the mobs over to the boss. Adherants since they are casters will typically stop at the bottom of the stairs to cast at the healers. We have a death knight death grip the one from the left side (the side with 2 fanatics and 1 adherant into a decent spot right next to the boss). The adherants on the right side are burned down by the melee DPS at the bottom of the stairs. The three actual tanks focus solely on picking up the Fanatics and getting them on top of the boss. These adds do not suffer from AoE damage reduction. This is where our odd raid make up actually comes out ahead. Our heavy ranged DPS AoEs the trash right on top of the boss. The waves die before the next one spawns. And we have significantly higher damage being done to the mana shield. Our raid hasn't fully perfected the technique yet, but because of the added AoE damage on the boss phase one will take about 25-33% the time. I should add that not all of the ranged DPS simply AoEs. It is important to still have a few specifically dedicated to single target burning of Fanatics, especially reanimated or deformed. Also because of the frost traps near the elevator, deformed fanatics are simply ping ponged around by tanks taunting and ranged DPS pulling agro until they are dead.

This technique makes it a bit harder to pick up the adds since tanks aren't picking them up immediately, but rather when they get to the stairs so it does require a bit of practice. My raid hasn't killed her yet in 25 man but I suspect this is the technique which will work for us.

*edit* Should also note, spell reflect has no impact on AoE. Because of this even if Adherants are in the AoE our casters don't have to worry about them. It's actually better if they are cause they will die faster.


Looks like this has a very good chance of succession, our guild ran it today, and we got her down to about 30% on second attempt, we only need to get more practice at it and hopefully will have a better success rate, as you said, we had more ranged than melee, so this really helped us, let me know if you have anyother updates on how to tweak it.

Quinafoi
12-30-2009, 11:30 PM
Looks like this has a very good chance of succession, our guild ran it today, and we got her down to about 30% on second attempt, we only need to get more practice at it and hopefully will have a better success rate, as you said, we had more ranged than melee, so this really helped us, let me know if you have anyother updates on how to tweak it.

It's just a matter of practice is all, like any other technique. We didn't kill her the first week because we switched strategies half way and only had a couple attempts. The following week though it was a one shot for us. Part of that was one of our regulars that was out the week prior was back which helped a bit, our main tank.

The biggest learning curve will be for the tanks. They have to pick up the adds in a different position, move them instead of just tanking them where they are at, and have to also get their own technique of kiting a deformed fanatic. You can plan it out as much as you like, but some of that just takes practice.

The technique does work though, several raids with heavier ranged compositions instead of a balance or heavy melee have done so using the AoE method.

hard_jay
01-01-2010, 12:30 PM
if i do chaos bolt is it hitting her mana shield or her life? since it pass all absorbtion effect

Panzerr
01-01-2010, 01:27 PM
if i do chaos bolt is it hitting her mana shield or her life? since it pass all absorbtion effect

Mana Barrier: Envelops the caster in a powerful barrier that continually replenishes any lost health, at the expense of the caster's mana.

As you can read, it's not really an absorb, so chaos bolt won't behave differently than any other damage spell.

hard_jay
01-04-2010, 12:07 PM
thank you for the info

Terra
01-05-2010, 06:29 AM
We've been having a pretty hard time getting this fight done using the original strat. What I'm going to offer isn't a new concept even on these forums as it was suggested by some others, but I wanted to post our success and what we had to do to get over the hump and drop this boss in 25 man. Our issues were getting out of Phase 1 cleanly and with enough time left on the enrage timer to finish it up. We have the DPS but trying to play the balance game to put just enough DPS on the adds often left 1 group or the other overwhelmed eventually mostly due to bad timing on mind controls. Without further ado, this is what worked for us:



To recap how this was actually executed once the dust cleared.


=========Boss (1)============

Fanatic (2) =========== Adherent (5)

Adherent (3) ========== Fanatic (6)

Fanatic (4) ========== Adherent (7)


======== Random Add (8)========

A = Melee assigned to left side
B = Melee assigned to right side
C = Ranged assigned to left side
D = Ranged assigned to right side
E = Tank assigned to pickup random add

Group B should be stronger than group A
Group C and D should be about equal

A kills 3 then gets on 1
B kills 5 and 7. Then they kill 8 if it's an adherant, otherwise they go to 1.
C kills 2 and 4, then get on 1.
D kills 6 and then make a judgement call. If 8 is a fanatic, kill it. Otherwise, if group C needs help, help them. Otherwise, get on the boss.
E does their best to LoS pull to where 7 is.

If a deformed fanatic spawns: Groups C and D stop what they are doing and kill it.

Rennadrel
01-05-2010, 10:21 PM
In 25 man having all DPS on the adds doesn't seem to be effective for my guild. I am not sure why but we can't get past Lady Deathwhisper on 25 man due to not getting enough damage in to take out the mana shield before she goes into berserk. How many melee are recommended for this fight? I would say 5 at most, one on the back and two on either side. The problem I am seeing from my perspective is that people seem to think that we don't have enough time to kill the adds with just melee DPS, however I would honestly be putting all casters on the boss to throw up DoT's and assist with single target spells on the adds while their DoT's tick. Or throw 2 melee on the boss full time and let the other 3 handle the adds that can only be hit by physical damage, it would be enough to kill those guys.

Suggestions on what we should be doing to DPS the boss more due to lack of adds dying.

Quinafoi
01-06-2010, 03:00 AM
In 25 man having all DPS on the adds doesn't seem to be effective for my guild. I am not sure why but we can't get past Lady Deathwhisper on 25 man due to not getting enough damage in to take out the mana shield before she goes into berserk. How many melee are recommended for this fight? I would say 5 at most, one on the back and two on either side. The problem I am seeing from my perspective is that people seem to think that we don't have enough time to kill the adds with just melee DPS, however I would honestly be putting all casters on the boss to throw up DoT's and assist with single target spells on the adds while their DoT's tick. Or throw 2 melee on the boss full time and let the other 3 handle the adds that can only be hit by physical damage, it would be enough to kill those guys.

Suggestions on what we should be doing to DPS the boss more due to lack of adds dying.

If your raid composition is heavily ranged DPS, you may want to attempt the AoE strategy. Read the earlier posts in this topic, particularly by myself, I've already described the varying parts of the tactic in multiple posts. Though I suspect now with the nerfs to the encounter you should find it easier on 25 man.

We've done both the AoE strategy and the conventional technique as our raid composition changed from week to week over the holidays.

Badmonkey.eu
01-12-2010, 11:59 PM
So I wonder if anybody still has not killed the lady...
Did anyone here already try the full house achievement? We´re going to try this on friday but I didnt find any strat. My suggestion would be to assign want tank to normal tank the adds and later the lady and one tank, preferably me, to tank the different types of adds. I read that if you wanna be successfull you got to tank 1 fanatic, 1 adherent, 1 revived adherent, 1 revived fanatic and a deformed fanatic what should be the only problem.
So my plan is to tank these adds but the deformed fanatic (gotta kite him etc.)
Did you already get these achievement?

Atromar
01-18-2010, 08:27 AM
Our guild successfully completed this encounter with a strategy that surprisingly worked very well.

Group Makeup:
Warrior: Tank
Paladin: Tank and Healer
Druid: Healer
Shaman: 2 elemental
Warlock: Destruction
Hunter: Marksmanship
Priest: Shadow
Rogue: Mutilate

We began attempting this encounter with three healers but ran across some problems handling the adds. With this makeup however we blew through the encounter. We only failed the first time by not allowing tanks to grab aggro when her shield dropped.

First Phase:
Both shamans, hunter and rogue were on add duty while shadow priest and warlock focused on boss all times. All spell casters were targeted first each time to minimize any spell reflects. Afterwards priority was given to any mutated adds. Shamans focused down any melee that were resurrected while melee finished off other adds.

By consistently doing this we had a solid 25 seconds of every dps hitting the shield each time in between add spawns. Initially you will probably have about 10-20 seconds in between add spawns but after some practice quickly you achieve about 30 seconds which results in about 25 full seconds of dps on the boss.

The reason this seemed to work so well is no dps was wasted in switching between boss and adds because two physical dps and two casters were focused on the groups at all times. The hunter and rogue blasted through spellcaster shields in seconds while the shamans downed resurrected melee skeletons very quickly.

Overall I would suggest trying this in your group it went very well with two healers.

Quinafoi
01-18-2010, 09:52 AM
which results in about 25 full seconds of dps on the boss.

The reason this seemed to work so well is no dps was wasted in switching between boss and adds because two physical dps and two casters were focused on the groups at all times.

No, we didn't not switch to no boss between no add waves.

Huh?

You say you have "25 full seconds of dps on the boss", but four of your DPS is on adds "at all times". Damn, I've seen healers have higher activity on Loatheb than that...

Think what you meant to say is you had enough DPS allocated to the adds to kill them fast enough that you had a lot of extra time to DPS the boss (and you did, you weren't always on adds).

Desmonae
01-18-2010, 02:45 PM
My guild is having problems with Lady Deathwhisper. We are finding ourselves overwhelmed by adds by the time we get her mana shield down. We have tried different combinations of melee and caster damage, with little change. What would you say is the minimum dps requirement for this fight per player? I pull up to 5.5k on single boss fights, but I find my dps dropping to 1.5-2k here because I am running around so much. I am in full T9 plus i219-259 other (mostly 232 and higher), as are my guildies. I'm starting to think we're not ready for this, although we can clear anything else! it's rather surprising, and we can't figure out what we're doing wrong. Add: We have all dps on adds then burn mana shield between add spawns. I'm thinking maybe we don't have the dps, but I will try the suggestion below of having people "assigned" to one side or the other, so we don't have to run around so much. thanks to you Surmaaja, for your input. I will try it. <3

Surmaaja
01-18-2010, 03:12 PM
Simply assign more people on the adds and not burning the manashield off the boss. In 10mans we all dps down adds first then go for boss, sometimes there's 20-30 seconds untill next wave of adds are coming and thats enough to burn the shield in few waves. In 25 we have assigned certain players on left/right/stairs and just few players constantly on boss.

Atromar
01-25-2010, 06:05 AM
No, we didn't not switch to no boss between no add waves.

Huh?

You say you have "25 full seconds of dps on the boss", but four of your DPS is on adds "at all times". Damn, I've seen healers have higher activity on Loatheb than that...

Think what you meant to say is you had enough DPS allocated to the adds to kill them fast enough that you had a lot of extra time to DPS the boss (and you did, you weren't always on adds).

I am sorry it was unclear what I was saying after reading that. What I meant having two spell casters and two physical dps on the adds on each spawn meant that once the adds spawned we had both types of damage to handle any reanimated adds or any spell casters with reflect up. When the adds were dead the four dps would attack the boss for about 25 seconds before they had to be in position for the adds on the other side. Since there were already ranged dps helping with the adds the ranged dps never had to switch from the boss to adds during the time the adds were up. Sorry for the confusion

longliveario
01-25-2010, 03:52 PM
We've been having a pretty hard time getting this fight done using the original strat. What I'm going to offer isn't a new concept even on these forums as it was suggested by some others, but I wanted to post our success and what we had to do to get over the hump and drop this boss in 25 man. Our issues were getting out of Phase 1 cleanly and with enough time left on the enrage timer to finish it up. We have the DPS but trying to play the balance game to put just enough DPS on the adds often left 1 group or the other overwhelmed eventually mostly due to bad timing on mind controls. Without further ado, this is what worked for us:



To recap how this was actually executed once the dust cleared.


=========Boss (1)============

Fanatic (2) =========== Adherent (5)

Adherent (3) ========== Fanatic (6)

Fanatic (4) ========== Adherent (7)


======== Random Add (8)========

A = Melee assigned to left side
B = Melee assigned to right side
C = Ranged assigned to left side
D = Ranged assigned to right side
E = Tank assigned to pickup random add

Group B should be stronger than group A
Group C and D should be about equal

A kills 3 then gets on 1
B kills 5 and 7. Then they kill 8 if it's an adherant, otherwise they go to 1.
C kills 2 and 4, then get on 1.
D kills 6 and then make a judgement call. If 8 is a fanatic, kill it. Otherwise, if group C needs help, help them. Otherwise, get on the boss.
E does their best to LoS pull to where 7 is.

If a deformed fanatic spawns: Groups C and D stop what they are doing and kill it.

what component do u suggest for this tactic, I mean how many milee and range? how many people for each group A-B-C-D?

Tellerbabe
04-20-2010, 01:57 PM
Aliena said that:" Reanimated adherents are 99% immune to magical damage". However later on in the same video and post she says: "Should a reanimated adherent pop up, have your casters handle it."

This seems a little bit odd...

Kazeyonoma
04-20-2010, 02:35 PM
adherent's are casters, and are immune to casting, needs physical dps to kill.
vice versa for the melee cleaving units (their name escapes me)

swollenpickles
05-18-2010, 09:17 PM
adherent's are casters, and are immune to casting, needs physical dps to kill.
vice versa for the melee cleaving units (their name escapes me)

I have a question about hunters - in general, but relevant to this fight - what % of their damage is 'physical' and what is 'magical' (or whatever you want to call it)? I'd assume autoshot and steadyshot are 'physical' attacks, but what about arcane shot, serpent sting, chimera etc? What adds should hunters focus on?

If you are in 10 man and have one hunter, are you better off assigning the hunter to the boss full time because of this?

Urythmic
05-25-2010, 01:18 PM
Aliena said that:" Reanimated adherents are 99% immune to magical damage". However later on in the same video and post she says: "Should a reanimated adherent pop up, have your casters handle it."

This seems a little bit odd...

Yeah, I was just about to comment on this. The text and narration is exactly backwards. It should say:

"Should a reanimated fanatic pop up, have your casters handle it."

Reanimated Adherent is impervious to magical damage (99% reduction).

Reanimated Fanatic is impervious to physical damage (99% reduction).

A note about this error should be added to the main post.