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Ciderhelm
12-09-2009, 06:37 AM
You can find a guide to the heroic version of this encounter here (http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?63546-Icecrown-Lord-Marrowgar-Hard)!

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Welcome to the Icecrown Citadel raid guide, my name is Kanzer. In this video I will be going over our 25 man strategy for Lord Marrowgar, the first encounter in Icecrown Citadel.

If you'd like more information or would like to learn more about downloading this movie, click "more info" on the movie information box on YouTube to head directly to TankSpot! Also, be sure to subscribe by clicking the Subscribe button to the right so you will be automatically notified as we release movies.

Lord Marrowgar serves his purpose well as an introductory boss into Icecrown Citadel, and is pretty straight forward and requires simple coordination from everyone in order to down him. For this fight we used 3 tanks, and 7 healers.

Lord Marrowgar will need to be tanked in the middle of the room about where he stands, and the raid needs to spread out evenly all around him, but not enough they they are out of range of healers. Healers should spread themselves out accordingly to reach everyone and not all be clumped up in one spot. Melee should take advantage of the bosses huge hit box and spread themselves out in a semi circle behind the boss to avoid multiple people getting hit by flames.

There are three distinct abilities to keep in mind during this phase.

First off, Lord Marrowgar does an attack called Saber Lash, this does 300% of his normal melee attack damage and spreads it between the tank, and the 2 closest people to him and prevents them from being impaled by Bone Spike Graveyard. This is the reason for having three tanks, as you don't want a single tank taking the full on attack, nor a dps taking any part of this attack. For this reason, all of the tanks should stand within five yards of eachother, and should do their best to stay that way throughout the fight's entirety.

The second ability to be aware of is called Cold Flame, Marrowgar will occasionally spit out lines of fire that target a particular player, and move in a straight line toward that player until gone. While in the fire a player will take 7000 frost damage every second for three seconds. This is very simple to avoid as all you need to do is side step out of the way and let it go by you. Melee should pay particular attention to this as they can find a fire right on top of them at any given time. Despite being flames, they do frost damage so it is a good idea to run frost protection aura or a totem.

Finally, Lord Marrowgar performs an attack called Bone Spike graveyard. What this does is impales three random raid members and traps them into one of these graveyards. These graveyards deal 10% health per sec in damage, as well as immobilizes whoever gets hit, so they need to be broken out of it immediately before a flame overwhelms them or they die from the tick in general. Its not fun having to heal someone getting hit by both. Range DPS should be divided into two groups on the left and right side of the boss, and their priority is to break people out of the graveyards before resuming DPS on the boss, starting from the outside in. Melee should assist with any that appear near them, otherwise just keep DPSing Marrowgar.

Eventually you will get an emote that says "Lord Marrowgar falls apart and his bones begin to spin!" this signals Marrowgar is about to go into a whirlwind which is phase 2. DPS should continue as normal. When Marrowgar goes into his whirlwind he will begin targetting random people and moving very fast back and forth between them. The whirlwind itself does an insignificant amount of damage and can easily be healed through, however while he is doing this he will shoot out cold flames at four different angles at an accelerated rate, so it is important that everyone is paying attention and moving to avoid these fires. The whirlwind last for 30 seconds and the tanks need to be right there when he wears off to pick him up, because his aggro will reset once its finished. DPS should allow the tank a couple of seconds to restablish aggro and position before resuming DPS.

Once the whirlwind is done, he goes back to normal and its simple rinse and repeat until hes a pile of bones at your feet.

All in all, this is a simple encounter that requires basic movement, positioning, and proper placement to get through. As long as everyone performs as they should, you shouldn't have much trouble.

Thanks for watching this movie! As always, feel free to ask questions or add suggestions either on YouTube or in the strategy thread on TankSpot.com. Also, TankSpot Donors can download all of these movies in High Definition directly from our servers -- click the second link in the movie information box to learn more!


Welcome to the Icecrown Citadel raid guide, my name is Kanzer. In this video I will be going over our 10 man strategy for Lord Marrowgar, the first encounter in Icecrown Citadel.

If you'd like more information or would like to learn more about downloading this movie, click "more info" on the movie information box on YouTube to head directly to TankSpot! Also, be sure to subscribe by clicking the Subscribe button to the right so you will be automatically notified as we release movies.

For this encounter you should have at least two tanks, and two healers.

Lord Marrowgar is best described as an introductory boss into Icecrown Citadel, and requires basic movement, coordination and placement in order to down him.

Lord Marrowgar will need to be tanked in the middle of the room about where he stands, and the raid should spread out evenly behind and to the sides of him to all be in range of eachother for healing and bone spikes when they happen. Melee DPS should take advantage of his huge hit box and spread themselves out in a half circle directly behind the boss. It is possible for Melee DPS and healers to stand far within his hitbox to avoid getting hit by the flames altogether, however this runs the risk of them getting Saber Lashed instead of the tanks and so it is not advisable, as dodging the flames is very simple and doesn't leave possible insta gibs to chance. If your raid is having much trouble dodging the flames however, it is something you can try. Range should avoid standing infront of Marrowgar even at a distance, as this also seems to put you at risk of getting hit by Saber Lash.

There are three distinct abilities to keep in mind during this phase.

First off, Lord Marrowgar does an attack called Saber Lash, this does 200% of his normal melee attack damage and spreads it between the tank, and the closest ally to him and prevents them from being impaled by Bone Spike Graveyard. This is the reason for having two tanks, as you don't want a single tank taking the full attack, nor a random dps getting hit by this at all. For this reason, both tanks should stand within five yards of eachother infront of the boss, and should do their best to stay that way throughout the entire fight's duration.

The second ability to be aware of is called Cold Flame, Marrowgar will occasionally spit out lines of fire that target a particular player, and move in a straight line toward them until gone. While in the fire a player will take 6000 frost damage every second for three seconds. This is very simple to avoid as all you need to do is side step out of the way and let it go by you. Melee should pay particular attention to this as they can find a fire right on top of them at any given time. Despite being flames, they do frost damage so it is a good idea to run frost protection aura or a totem.

Finally, Lord Marrowgar performs an attack called Bone Spike graveyard. What this does is impales a random raid member and traps them into one of these graveyards. These graveyards deal 10% health per sec in damage, as well as immobilize whoever gets hit, so they need to be broken out of it immediately before a flame overwhelms them or they die from the tick in general. Range DPS should be divided between the left, right, and center behind the boss, and their priority is to break people out of the graveyards before resuming DPS on the boss. Melee should assist with any that appear near them, or if your range is having trouble breaking people out on their own, Melee should assist with all of them.

Eventually you will get an emote that says "Lord Marrowgar creates a whirling storm of bone" this signals Marrowgar is about to go into a whirlwind which is phase 2. DPS should continue as normal. When Marrowgar goes into his whirlwind he will begin targetting random people and moving very fast back and forth between them. The whirlwind itself does an insignificant amount of damage and can easily be healed through, however while he is doing this he will shoot out cold flames at four different angles at an accelerated rate, so it is important that everyone is paying attention and moving to avoid these fires. The whirlwind last for 30 seconds and the tanks need to be right there when he wears off to pick him up, because his aggro will reset once its finished. DPS should allow the tank a couple of seconds to restablish aggro and position before resuming DPS.

Once the whirlwind is done, he goes back to normal and phase 1 begins again. From this point on its just rinse and repeat until he is dead.

All in all, this is a simple encounter that requires basic movement, positioning, and proper placement to get through. As long as everyone dodges fires, breaks people out of Bone Spike Graveyards, and performs as they should, you shouldn't have much trouble.

Thanks for watching this movie! As always, feel free to ask questions or add suggestions either on YouTube or in the strategy thread on TankSpot.com. Also, TankSpot Donors can download all of these movies in High Definition directly from our servers -- click the second link in the movie information box to learn more!

Ciderhelm
12-09-2009, 07:11 AM
Movie up! Donor download will be functional in ~25 minutes. On to Deathwhisper!

Krenian
12-09-2009, 07:14 AM
I miss raiding with Eventide. :(

Looks like a fun fight though. Good job Kanzer.

Ciderhelm
12-09-2009, 07:23 AM
This video is completely broken on YouTube. There's a hiccup in the movie file. We're trying to get this resolved this morning.

(The donor download has the hiccup but you can skip past it and see the rest of the movie)

gabbu
12-09-2009, 07:25 AM
Gives me a linklok on donor download, is it locked or I just happen to access it at a busy time?

Ciderhelm
12-09-2009, 07:28 AM
Gives me a linklok on donor download, is it locked or I just happen to access it at a busy time?
About 13 more minutes before it's available, per above post! Very soon.

bloodbrother
12-09-2009, 07:42 AM
Is there a Lady Deathwhisper Guide coming out today? tyvm....

Mindy
12-09-2009, 09:28 AM
Dunno if it was mentioned, but after bone storm, is there an aggro reset? When I did it on 10-man it looked like there was.

Kanzer
12-09-2009, 09:30 AM
Yes you are correct, his aggro resets once the whirlwind finishes, and it is mentioned in the strat.

Kazeyonoma
12-09-2009, 09:53 AM
The aggro reset does happen, but strangely he seems taunt immune? (maybe we were overzealous with taunting and he went immune via normal means, but he was definitely immune as he came out of the bone whirl) so make sure your tanks move together to eat saberlashes when picking him up, and making sure you hit him with a threat move and not just taunt to be safe.

Kanzer
12-09-2009, 10:35 AM
The aggro reset does happen, but strangely he seems taunt immune? (maybe we were overzealous with taunting and he went immune via normal means, but he was definitely immune as he came out of the bone whirl) so make sure your tanks move together to eat saberlashes when picking him up, and making sure you hit him with a threat move and not just taunt to be safe.

I'm pretty sure hes simply taunt immune, I found that out after the third whirlwind in the video, which is why I suggest that DPS allow the tank to get aggro and even get into position before going all out on the boss again.

Coldbear
12-09-2009, 11:35 AM
Melee can just stay right inside his targeting circle - easily avoids the Cold beer ...er, I mean Flame.

paxundae
12-09-2009, 03:19 PM
Melee can just stay right inside his targeting circle - easily avoids the Cold beer ...er, I mean Flame.

Is it possible to move the entire raid into his targeting circle and ignore the flame altogether until the whirlwind? (I'm thinking about this more for 10-man than 25, since the whirlwind damage is so low on 10 and you need to stay a bit closer together anyways to deal with the bone spikes.)

Wani
12-09-2009, 04:02 PM
Yes, he is taunt immune, we found that one out very quickly.

Also, what we found on 10 man with me OTing and a bear MTing, we both seemed to be taking about the same damage. Most of our wipes were due to tank death.

Haramrae
12-10-2009, 04:23 AM
We were trying him in 10-man last night with two bear tanks. We (the tanks) consistently got triplets of 15-16k melee damage, even though we were right on top of each other. Considering we had 35-39k health it meant a wipe as soon as one of the healers got spiked. We've been through ToTC-25 with these people, we should be able to handle the "easy" first boss in IC, shouldn't we?

Eventually we swapped out a DPS for a healer and managed to stay alive a little longer, but at our best attempt we only got him down to 73% health before a tank died and we wiped. We're now thinking of bringing a third tank instead of an extra healer.

Muffin Man
12-10-2009, 04:27 AM
The aggro reset does happen, but strangely he seems taunt immune?

I don't think it's that strange. Didn't vanilla Ony do the same thing going into P3? Aggro wipe while taunt immune? Also, Zul'jin from TBC.

This is the last raid of the expansion so I kind of like how they made it so the entire raid has to watch threat as bone whirl ends. Phase changes and threat drops shouldn't be trivially handled with taunt like Gundrak's Drakkari Colossus after all.

The phase change was the one hang up my guild had before we downed him tonite, so I'd also imagine the encounter would just be way too easy if he was tauntable.

Mr.Winkle
12-10-2009, 04:31 AM
In answer to Haramrae

35-39K as a bear tank? That sounds quite low. None the less i agree that when one of you healers get spiked (especially myself as a holy pala) the tanks did drop very low. Using 3 tanks is obviously 1 work around, alternatively saving CDs for healer spikes and relying on the other 2 healers pumping up the output could work.

I believe Marrowgar can be dismantled so try that if you have a rogue. Also make sure that ALL (yes including melee) DPS nuke the spikes immediately.

We wiped a couple of times ourselves but that was mainly due to aggro issues after bonestorm. However our tanks both have around 48k buffed.

I imagine he is taunt immune to stop the bonestorm being controlled via taunts.

Haramrae
12-10-2009, 04:54 AM
"Especially as a holy pala"? Our three healers were all holy paladins. I suppose the priest stamina buff would have been nice for this fight. Usually we bring our warrior tank (45k) and a holy priest to our raids, but they weren't available last night.

With two tanks with 48k health you wouldn't have any problems indeed. That's 3x16k, which is the high end of what Marrowgar's attack rounds add up to and with that much health they probably have more armour (so even less damage) than I have as well. I wonder what gear your tanks have to have that much health?

Mr.Winkle
12-10-2009, 05:42 AM
"Especially as a holy pala"? Our three healers were all holy paladins. I suppose the priest stamina buff would have been nice for this fight. Usually we bring our warrior tank (45k) and a holy priest to our raids, but they weren't available last night.

With two tanks with 48k health you wouldn't have any problems indeed. That's 3x16k, which is the high end of what Marrowgar's attack rounds add up to and with that much health they probably have more armour (so even less damage) than I have as well. I wonder what gear your tanks have to have that much health?

What i meant by the Holy Paladin post was that i, as a holy paladin, was easily the most effective healer on that fight due to the constant damage on 2 tanks. As such, when i was spiked the priest and druid had to keep the tanks up.

With 3 holy paladins i can't see how you could possibly die unless one of two things are happening:

1) The melee attack of the boss is enough to 1 shot you, clearly not.
2) Your not always standing with the other tanks so you take a full sabrelash yourself = 2 x 100% melee damage. BTW sabre lash only hits for 2x melee dmg in 10man, not 3, however it can be spread across 3 tanks.

perhaps you and your off tank are slightly undergeared, but still, with 3 holy paladins healing you i just don't see how you could ever die.

Don't forget the scroll buffs if you're missing a priest or druid.

Here's our tanks armory profiles:
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Doomhammer&n=Jimdogg)
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Doomhammer&n=Bladeskilled)

Tahriel
12-10-2009, 07:29 AM
We were trying him in 10-man last night with two bear tanks. We (the tanks) consistently got triplets of 15-16k melee damage, even though we were right on top of each other. Considering we had 35-39k health it meant a wipe as soon as one of the healers got spiked. We've been through ToTC-25 with these people, we should be able to handle the "easy" first boss in IC, shouldn't we?

Eventually we swapped out a DPS for a healer and managed to stay alive a little longer, but at our best attempt we only got him down to 73% health before a tank died and we wiped. We're now thinking of bringing a third tank instead of an extra healer.

I Did the 10 man version last night with my guild, we used 2 tanks and 2 healers, originaly expecting we'd need to bring in a third healer, but we were surprised that the raid damage is so low we could focus fully on healing the tanks. I would mention that tanks health did drop a hell of a lot and sometimes got below 10%, but we never had one of them die. We also one shot this encounter.

The whirlwind damage is a joke, i expected our melee to get ganked on the first whirldwind, but to my surprise the whirlwind on first boss of Nexus seems to hit harder. The fire on the floor can be painful, but as you should be moving out of it quickly it shouldn't pose any threat.

We did the encounter with our Paladin healer tanking the encounter (Our Main Tank couldn't get ingame.. ) and he mentioned how easy it would of been for him to heal with beacon across both tanks. That encounter will be one healed by a Paladin before we know it.

I'd bet that your healers arn't keeping their eyes focused on the tanks properly and are all switching to heal the impale allowing your tanks to get low. Set up some healing assignments. Personaly i'd go with using your 2 paladins. Have both of them put their beacons on the tanks (one tank beaconed each) and have them both heal the impales and any fire damage.

Use 6 DPS and get the encounter finished faster.

/Tahriel

Mr.Winkle
12-10-2009, 07:32 AM
That encounter will be one healed by a Paladin before we know it.


Until the paladin is spiked.

Paladins do shine on this fight though.

Urgele
12-10-2009, 07:43 AM
I notice in the video your tanks reposition him after each whirlwind phase more or less back into his original spot.

How important is it to do this? Is it necessary? Couldn't a raid just pick him up where he stops and readjust the raid's positioning to him?

I ask this because for my raid he was very 'jerky' when we tried to reposition him (lots of 'move and stop, move and stop'), which led to some threat issues.

Haramrae
12-10-2009, 07:44 AM
Actually I think our problem was a third: healers needing to divide their attention to other raid members getting damage. If one of them gets spiked at that point there's only one healer left on the tanks and that's not enough.

For example, we were quickly aware of the aggro wipe after bone storm, but I think people assumed we could taunt him back. So people got aggro and lots of damage from that (if they were lucky).
Another problem was people taking cover behind the tanks, which meant we had to dodge cold flame as well and dodge in the same direction too of course. The flames caused quite a bit of chaos, they appeared and moved a lot faster and more frequent than we had expected.
We'll probably fare better once we get a better grasp of the encounter.

Come to think of it, we didn't have 3 paladins at any given time... We started with a pala and a shaman, then got help from a druid when the shaman left (couldn't handle the wiping) and added a third (pala) healer in the end. It's been a bit of a confusing night, heh.

That said, I don't think holy pala's are a guarantee to get through this fight. Other classes should fare similarly. It all comes down to gear and talent choices if Blizzard balanced things out correctly. I don't think a bias on pala's would be fair to the other healer classes.
You're probably right that the pala's big heals match up well with Morrowgar's big hits on the tanks, but for example hots should help a lot in reducing overall raid damage from people getting hit by flames or bone storm.

As a side question, how many of the people who were successful in defeating him in 10-man are in full or nearly full ToTC-25 gear?
We only recently lost our strict 10-man status on guildox, so we're mostly in ToTC-10 and Ulduar-10 gear. I remember that Ulduar-10 was almost impossible for us too the first few weeks it was available (especially Razorscale and Kologarn), it wouldn't surprise me if IC-10 suffers from the same problem. I recall reading on wow.com that over-geared people caused a problem tuning the 10-man instances on the PTR back then.

Mr.Winkle
12-10-2009, 08:03 AM
To a degree i would agree with you about the gear Haramrae. Whilt obviously not required it does allow for more mistakes to be made and then recovered from. The 2 tanks i linked are porbably repsentative of most of my 10man guild, i.e. some 25man gear from pugging ToC25 but also some TOC10 and even older stuff also.

I wouldn't worry about raid damage to much. Just make sure your dps are quick to react to both the fires and the spikes. I found bone storm to require negligible healing, just make sure everyone keeps running around.

I would say pala/shammy would probably be the best 2man healer team for the fight, we did 3 heal though oouselves.

We got the instagibs after bone storm onour first try, i just had the tanks run after him and conitinue attacking through bone storm on our next attempt. Blowing your CDs when you pick him back up again also allows for both you and your healers to reposition a bit.

Reev
12-10-2009, 08:12 AM
I notice in the video your tanks reposition him after each whirlwind phase more or less back into his original spot.

How important is it to do this? Is it necessary? Couldn't a raid just pick him up where he stops and readjust the raid's positioning to him?

I ask this because for my raid he was very 'jerky' when we tried to reposition him (lots of 'move and stop, move and stop'), which led to some threat issues.

We didn't reposition him in our 25 man raid last night and it worked fine.

Tahriel
12-10-2009, 08:50 AM
As a side question, how many of the people who were successful in defeating him in 10-man are in full or nearly full ToTC-25 gear?
We only recently lost our strict 10-man status on guildox, so we're mostly in ToTC-10 and Ulduar-10 gear. I remember that Ulduar-10 was almost impossible for us too the first few weeks it was available (especially Razorscale and Kologarn), it wouldn't surprise me if IC-10 suffers from the same problem. I recall reading on wow.com that over-geared people caused a problem tuning the 10-man instances on the PTR back then.

We completed him and we are a 10 man guild, we only raid 10 man content as a guild (15 players in guild at the moment if i i remember right). Some pugs to ToC 25 has happened to keep some of us entertained so we have a bit of that loot, but no loot over item level 245 until we hit IC. The benefit of us being a small guild though is that most of our members are coated in 245's so we went with a very strong group.

We did feel all the encounters went down very quickly, maybe because we 2 healed everything.

/Tahriel

Daimon
12-10-2009, 09:48 AM
Is an easy fight, tho we had big issues ,last night, once we figure it out how to handle the Bone Storm phase, our main issue was tank deaths, I was pretty much 1 shooted every everytime i picked him up again after the WW, if not me one of the OT died and was the same thing our stam is decent, 50k each, dodge after the 20% dodge debuff is like 8-9% and parry/block is about 19-23% average.

How many healers should be on each tank? we had 4 healing us (2 on MT 1 on each OT) 1 healing raid and 2 healing Bone Spikes and raid when not. Is that enough?

He hits 17-18k on a tank, the bone storm does ~1200 on plate and 2k+ on cloth, average.
This fight is exactly a mix of Koralon and Leotheras WW phase. Is not hard at all, and tank dmg is not extremely high but is very constant.

Trynthlas
12-10-2009, 10:22 AM
Is an easy fight, tho we had big issues ,last night, once we figure it out how to handle the Bone Storm phase, our main issue was tank deaths, I was pretty much 1 shooted every everytime i picked him up again after the WW, if not me one of the OT died and was the same thing our stam is decent, 50k each, dodge after the 20% dodge debuff is like 8-9% and parry/block is about 19-23% average.

How many healers should be on each tank? we had 4 healing us (2 on MT 1 on each OT) 1 healing raid and 2 healing Bone Spikes and raid when not. Is that enough?

He hits 17-18k on a tank, the bone storm does ~1200 on plate and 2k+ on cloth, average.
This fight is exactly a mix of Koralon and Leotheras WW phase. Is not hard at all, and tank dmg is not extremely high but is very constant.

I assume by the number of healers you are talking about 25 man, so you should have at least 3 tanks (sounds like you did) - if they aren't stacked and you take one of the big swipes it's 300% weapon damage to 2 or even 1 tank and that = death. Makes it super important for the tanks to stay together.

screw231
12-10-2009, 10:54 AM
Ok so I looked everywhere I could but I can't find a list of what UI Kanzer is using in this movie. I am really only interested in the one that scrolls his debuff countdown across the screen. Thanks in advance for the help.

Kanzer
12-10-2009, 01:14 PM
Ok so I looked everywhere I could but I can't find a list of what UI Kanzer is using in this movie. I am really only interested in the one that scrolls his debuff countdown across the screen. Thanks in advance for the help.

Its called Acherus runes.

screw231
12-10-2009, 04:38 PM
thank i appriciate it

Posolutely
12-10-2009, 09:55 PM
Struggled a bit tonight on 10 man, after 5 or so wipes we got him down.

Our tanks were taking LOTS more damage than I expected, upwards of 60k damage each (120k total) within a 5 second period. Just very, very tough for our healers to heal through (Shaman, Druid & Disc Priest).

Just didn't seem like "just heal more" or "bring a paladin or two" should have to be part of the strategy here.

manicus
12-10-2009, 10:48 PM
We did him yesterday on 10-man. 2-shot, easy fight.

He is taunt immune as people have mentioned, and he will stress out the healers with people getting spiked.

We only had 2 ranged - 3 ranged would have been better for spikes.

Melee damage can safely stand inside the targeting circle and avoid flames.

There is no need to reposition him, but tanks need to be quick to pick him up. Our paladin used frisbee after each bonestorm.

It helps on the transitioning between phase 2 and phase 1, if the tanks use their cooldowns. Then the healers can reposition, if they are caught in an unlucky position because of fires.

Our raid setup was:
Warrior Tank, Paladin Tank
2x DK dps, Ret pally
Balance druid, Arcane mage
Holy pally, Disc priest, Holy priest.

Mynanth
12-11-2009, 02:39 AM
Can some1 please tell me the name of that addon in ur UI! It's in background of your chat, spels and recount, like a blood stain :DDDD plzzzzzz tell me the name of it :DDD wanna download it ^__^

daemonaray
12-11-2009, 06:43 AM
Can some1 please tell me the name of that addon in ur UI! It's in background of your chat, spels and recount, like a blood stain :DDDD plzzzzzz tell me the name of it :DDD wanna download it ^__^
Me too also how i can create that blood under map? Soz for offtop.

Reev
12-11-2009, 06:58 AM
Struggled a bit tonight on 10 man, after 5 or so wipes we got him down.

Our tanks were taking LOTS more damage than I expected, upwards of 60k damage each (120k total) within a 5 second period. Just very, very tough for our healers to heal through (Shaman, Druid & Disc Priest).

Just didn't seem like "just heal more" or "bring a paladin or two" should have to be part of the strategy here.

If your tanks are taking that much damage, I think they're probably doing something wrong. On 25 man, I was taking between 12k and 15k hits every 2 seconds when I didn't avoid an attack. That equates to closer to 6750 dps on each of the tanks, or 33,750 over 5 seconds assuming nothing is avoided.

I think if your tanks were taking that much damage, it's likely they were standing in fire, or very undergeared, or not using armor potions, or a combination of all of the above.

bonekrusher
12-11-2009, 07:22 AM
We tried this on 10 man. Two tanks were just taking to much dmg, expecially if a healer got spiked. We tried three tanks second time but the third tank just didnt seem to take dmg. Anyway im looking for confirmation on whether or not three tanks work on 10man.

Horacio
12-11-2009, 07:33 AM
After wiping all night Wednesday, we killed him on the 2nd pull last night and were rewarded with zero tank loots, just a bunch of caster garbage :( Note: we're a social/casual guild that raids so our issues will be different than some but probably most people needing advise are in our boat.

The biggest issues for us was the obvious, not getting people off spikes quickly enough and consistantly and positioning. His big, nasty cleave just doesn't seem to discriminate and hits the MT and two other people in front of him. I've seen times when all three tanks were having a group hug and the priest standing 10 yards behind us keels over dead on a Saber Lash. Getting people to GTFO the way and not stand there when he stops Bone Storming and we have to drag him back to the center of the room.

No, he cannot be taunted. You just have to be ready to unload on him as soon as he breaks out into phase 1 again. The DBM timer seems to be off by a good 3-5 seconds and he's 'live' before the timer winds down. I try to make my first two globals a SS and a Conc and slowly back him into the center. The tanks have got to learn to 'dance', making their moves at the same time.

All I can think of at the moment.

chubtohd
12-11-2009, 08:10 AM
Interestingly we had a TON of problems on 10 man ... and 2 shot 25 man.

It took us 6 attempts. Our major problem was that the tank with aggro was taking the whole Saber Lash damage while the OT even though they were standing on top of me, was taking none.

We finally brute healed through it...but I was asking around and one of the other 2 groups our guild ran that night had the same problem. They managed to figure it out though :) This sounds plausible:

Since Lord M's hit box is so big, if the tanks are too close to him, the second tank is treated like he's behind (kinda of ala Prince M in Kara...often if belf pallies tanked him close to the wall he could attack you from behind even though he was in front) and as such won't get the saber lash. So, they positioned him...the OT took a few steps back...and the problem ceased.

I wasn't there, so I don't know firsthand what that looked like, but will be trying it next reset.

blindpiggy
12-11-2009, 08:38 AM
Any way to lower damage coming in to tanks? Tried this last night on 25 with myself (a paladin) and two warriors tanking, both the warriors would die pretty often (one is really a dps with a 232+ tanking offset). I had 11% (49.5 vs 38.3 and 36.5 avgs) higher avoidance for sabre lashes, but switching me from MT to an OT and moving our worst geared tank to MT (a la patchwerk) seemed to help on the damage going out. Is there any reason to believe that this was actually what was happening or was it just coincidence?

I've been through logs over and over and over and there are times where our worst geared tank would get insta-gibbed via 3 18k sabre lashes. Healing was an issue as we were using 6, and one of our pallys was under 3k hps. I think it's more of a healing philosophy issue than anything.

Anyway so my question is, is there any patchwerk trend people found, something that would cause OTs to have a chance of taking higher spikes?

cynner
12-11-2009, 09:31 AM
It might be like Emalon - if the MT dodges the OT takes the full damage. :/
We had our bear tank remove dodge trinkets for HP trinkets so I (warrior tank) didn't keep taking the full damage.

Reev
12-11-2009, 09:39 AM
Any way to lower damage coming in to tanks? Tried this last night on 25 with myself (a paladin) and two warriors tanking, both the warriors would die pretty often (one is really a dps with a 232+ tanking offset). I had 11% (49.5 vs 38.3 and 36.5 avgs) higher avoidance for sabre lashes, but switching me from MT to an OT and moving our worst geared tank to MT (a la patchwerk) seemed to help on the damage going out. Is there any reason to believe that this was actually what was happening or was it just coincidence?

I've been through logs over and over and over and there are times where our worst geared tank would get insta-gibbed via 3 18k sabre lashes. Healing was an issue as we were using 6, and one of our pallys was under 3k hps. I think it's more of a healing philosophy issue than anything.

More armor, especially armor potions. A lot of tanks, especially alt tanks that may not consider such things as a matter of course, forget to bring armor potions to the party. That extra 3500 armor makes a huge huge difference.

That said, what seemed to make the biggest difference for us was when the healers changed up their strategy. I don't know what they did, though, because they do all their healer discussions in their super secret exclusive channel, "Blamethetanks."
Anyway so my question is, is there any patchwerk trend people found, something that would cause OTs to have a chance of taking higher spikes?

littlewillie
12-11-2009, 09:48 AM
We tried this on 10 man. Two tanks were just taking to much dmg, expecially if a healer got spiked. We tried three tanks second time but the third tank just didnt seem to take dmg. Anyway im looking for confirmation on whether or not three tanks work on 10man.

Confirmed last night. In 10-man, the Saber Lash will hit a maximum of two people. The tool tip seems to indicate it will hit a 3rd tank, but after a couple wipes with 2 tanks, we tried with a third and the lashes still only hit 2 tanks. All 3 tanks were right on top of each other.


It might be like Emalon - if the MT dodges the OT takes the full damage. :/
We had our bear tank remove dodge trinkets for HP trinkets so I (warrior tank) didn't keep taking the full damage.

In 10-man (haven't run 25 yet), a tank will only take full damage if there are no allies to split the damage within melee range of Lord Marrowgar. Dodges/Parries/Misses of one or both tanks will wipe out half or all the damage for that lash.

Something else we learned from our logs was the fight starts with ~5 melee swings to the highest threat target, then melee stops for the Saber Lash phase. This is also how the first 5 seconds after the whirlwind phase works.

bonekrusher
12-11-2009, 10:38 AM
I cant say for the after-whirlwind part, but it is true the first several hits are single target non-saberlash melee hits for around 12k. On 10man atleast

Posolutely
12-11-2009, 10:38 AM
If your tanks are taking that much damage, I think they're probably doing something wrong. On 25 man, I was taking between 12k and 15k hits every 2 seconds when I didn't avoid an attack. That equates to closer to 6750 dps on each of the tanks, or 33,750 over 5 seconds assuming nothing is avoided.

I think if your tanks were taking that much damage, it's likely they were standing in fire, or very undergeared, or not using armor potions, or a combination of all of the above.

Thanks for the reply, Reev.

Both the tanks are in full toc10 + some 245 gear at minimum. Saber lashes were going between 16 and 10k per hit.

Looking at the logs, every tank death happened when they'd take 4 saber lashes in under 6 seconds (6, 4, 2, 0=dead tank). If a healer was spiked when that happened, bam, dead tank. Obviously this is just unlucky and from the sounds of it, it was happening to others as well.

Insahnity
12-11-2009, 11:12 AM
Ok I have some questions for this, I didn't get through this on 10 man. I was a holy priest

Saberlash - same spell for 25 man and 10 man (3 targets even in 10 man)? We used 2 tanks only (pally MT/warrior OT), and they were taking a tonne of damage, and we already had 3 healers (2 x holy priests + a tree), didn't want to further dilute the DPS.

-Mitigation mechanics - Frost resist aura/totem is useable here, other than better gear any other suggestions?

Likely I might try and respec into Disc, it's been in the back of my mind for a while now.

Yohnbalzaci
12-11-2009, 12:55 PM
Whats the add-on that comes up at about 30 seconds in. It shows his diseases/cooldowns scrolling across his screen with a timer. A name would be much appreciated.

Fafiq
12-12-2009, 06:05 AM
I think it's SexyCooldown (http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/sexycooldown.aspx).

dessie
12-13-2009, 01:12 PM
Source: Mynanth
Can some1 please tell me the name of that addon in ur UI! It's in background of your chat, spels and recount, like a blood stain DDD plzzzzzz tell me the name of it DD wanna download it ^__^
Me too also how i can create that blood under map? Soz for offtop.

I made his UI awhile ago, I made all the images in photoshop then brought them in with kgpanels

Valkira
12-13-2009, 02:49 PM
So my guild got stuck on Marrowgar on our first attempt at ICC10 tonight... we were having the same problems others mentioned, ie tanks going splat all the time. We even had 3 healers and it still wasn't enough.

The main question I have is about the Coldflames... In all the videos I've watched the tanks just never (or very rarely) seem to be targetted by the Coldflame, whereas in our attempts the tanks were CONSTANTLY targetted and kept having to move left and right to avoid flames. Is this normal? Can it be controlled? We ended up having a system whereby we would always go left on the 1st flame then right on the 2nd to keep him facing roughly the same way.

Once we got this movement down our tanks were never seperated and we got through a few transitions and got him to 43%, but we still need a lot of improvement to get him down.

Wars
12-13-2009, 02:53 PM
Your tanks should know where the other is moving without really having to communicate. The one whom is main tanking makes the move, the OT follows. Trust your fellow tank and win!

The flames are not controllable as to whom they are going to target, just that they will target a player.

Marrowgar10 is the hardest fight I've seen in there in both 10 and 25man zones.

It's the hump you have to get over.

shanky
12-13-2009, 11:55 PM
I have been searching for a cleaner UI because as a tank it definately is hard when you have such a small box to look through. Kanzer by any chance can you please list what your using in your UI as well as how to make/apply that sexy bloodsplatter!

Muffin Man
12-14-2009, 02:04 AM
I cant say for the after-whirlwind part, but it is true the first several hits are single target non-saberlash melee hits for around 12k. On 10man atleast

Ya his normal melee really is just *that* big. It would be nice if someone could confirm that after whirlwind he has a cooldown before he starts saberlashing so that the tanks can get into position again. I'll keep an eye on this I guess?

The saberlash range is also pretty short and lag will mess up positioning. The best thing to do is have the tank with aggro get him in place and not move. Rather than have both tanks try to stack on each other, in which case you'll just ping pong back and forth playing tag.

Srakir
12-14-2009, 06:39 AM
I know I shouldn't ask it here but..
where do you get your artwork from?!? I realy like it^^

greetz

Mr.Winkle
12-14-2009, 07:10 AM
We used 2 tanks only (pally MT/warrior OT), and they were taking a tonne of damage, and we already had 3 healers (2 x holy priests + a tree), didn't want to further dilute the DPS.



That's hardly the greatest set up in terms of healing for that fight, if 1 or even better both holy priests can go disc that might help, with 1 concentrating on each tank.

I did this in 10 as holy pally and it really suits pally heals.

Fluxx
12-14-2009, 01:08 PM
Well we got him down on the second try on 10m.
We whiped because our dps did not focus on getting the healers down that way we did not have the 2 tanks (Me and a pally) able to stay high on health (We had about 42k Buffed both). The second try we really got or dps to focus and we got him down.

Also the reason to repositionate him in the middle again is he can do a massive cleave that will do 200% damage to 1 target or 100% melee damage to 2 tanks... so if the dps stand infront of it, and im assuming he takes the same formula as the faction champs in totc 10 he will hit the dps more likly then the other tank. Also make sure you DO NOT stand in the fire, it does crazy amounts if you dont have any frost protection active.

Further more we had 2 teams run him (i was on T1) the trinket droped which gives you 2k mana and the tank weapon. On T2 the same things droped.

steven
12-14-2009, 01:39 PM
so i tryed doing this the other day with my mage and hes geared all most in full 245 gear with for the most part great dps numbers in toc 25 and want not . but now when i when in to ICC i was doing crap dps LOW numbers .... ? i dont know y . is there some thing im doing wrong ? or is ever ones dps seem lower in here . is it from having to run around all the time or what ??? thanks

Mr.Winkle
12-14-2009, 04:53 PM
so i tryed doing this the other day with my mage and hes geared all most in full 245 gear with for the most part great dps numbers in toc 25 and want not . but now when i when in to ICC i was doing crap dps LOW numbers .... ? i dont know y . is there some thing im doing wrong ? or is ever ones dps seem lower in here . is it from having to run around all the time or what ??? thanks

When you are moving you aren't casting, if you're not casting you're not doing damage.

Kinda simple when you think about it no?

phaze
12-14-2009, 07:30 PM
The main question I have is about the Coldflames... In all the videos I've watched the tanks just never (or very rarely) seem to be targetted by the Coldflame, whereas in our attempts the tanks were CONSTANTLY targetted and kept having to move left and right to avoid flames. Is this normal? Can it be controlled?


The flames target a random player who is not getting Saber Lashed (like the bone spikes); they seem to prefer targetting players at range. It sounds like you had some ranged players standing behind the tanks, which will send the fire through them.

Easy solution is to have the tanks keep Marrowgar pointing away from the rest of the raid, and make sure no one goes near them (Saber Lash) or behind them (Coldflame).

Muffin Man
12-14-2009, 08:09 PM
Ya his normal melee really is just *that* big.

Guess I was wrong for 10 man anyways

from mmo-champion:


Lord Marrowgar will now do significantly less melee damage in both the 10 player normal and 10 player heroic difficulty.

Bruuth
12-15-2009, 01:32 AM
Qoestion for the peeps who downed him already:

How much was your avarage DPS in the group? Was that round 4kDPS?

We seem to have problems there i guess. We got him to 32% percent last night, then eventually one of the tanks died and so did the raid

Marty Mcfly
12-15-2009, 01:51 AM
I've heard that if you have your healers/casters stack behind the boss, like right on the edge of his hitbox or even a bit inside, they will not get hit by coldflame. Can anyone confirm this?

Mr.Winkle
12-15-2009, 02:16 AM
Lord Marrowgar will now do significantly less melee damage in both the 10 player normal and 10 player heroic difficulty.


So says the Big Blue: World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Recent In-Game Fixes - Decmeber 2009 - 12/14 (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=21723843880&sid=1)

Guess it was hitting quite hard in 10man.

phaze
12-15-2009, 06:58 AM
Yeah, looks like his 10m physical damage was roughly the same as 25m damage, from reports in this thread. Which can be a little hectic when you have half the healing throughput. ;)

Sark
12-15-2009, 07:34 AM
I've heard that if you have your healers/casters stack behind the boss, like right on the edge of his hitbox or even a bit inside, they will not get hit by coldflame. Can anyone confirm this?

This is true, however this results in flames being shot at the tanks which requires them to move and generally makes bad things happen.

Maybe have the melee and healers stand inside the hitbox with a few ranged dps outside so the flames have valid targets.

Thindraug
12-15-2009, 07:59 AM
Did the 10 version last night (work sucks!!).
MT(warrior) and OT(bear) run together. MT uses minor cd every times that takes agro (pull and agro reset of phase 2), because of the movement of the raid.
We used Shaman, Priest Holy an Pala to heal.
Dps and healers near the door, and close to each other because the damage of phase 2 is not really big nor really dificult to avoid.
Shaman on MT (our best geared heal), Pala on OT. Holy helps and raid.
melee dps (retri and dk) always with the boss.
ranged boss and the spike.
Armor potions at the 20%. Really help. Armor aura and frost aura.
Around 4k dps itīs ok i think, canīt remember how much we did.

I think that if everyone is near the healers, and moves out of the fire (it moves really slow...), and the spike goes down fast, there is no problem.
For the agro reset, hunter misdi and bear(OT) bleedings are great.
Remember the AP debuff to the boss.

This figth is hard for healers i think. The longer it takes, the harder itīs for them.

Eatmyhoof
12-15-2009, 09:38 AM
Did it in 10-man with 2 warrior tanks ~39k hp unbuffed, and shammy, Holy priest, druid healers (no pally heals, tho). Wiped a couple times but once we emphasized the DPS on the spikes, we did quite well. I think getting people, mainly healers, outta the spikes ASAP is the key to this fight once positioning is understood, regardless of raid makeup. If you can down the spikes in 2-3 secs, you should have no problems. As the main tank, I just stood where I was during WW, unless I needed to move for flames, until about 20-25 secs and then started to go in and get in range to pick him up. A well-timed Misdirection is helpful, but i had to use Heroic Throw so he didn't nuke the healers. All in all it didn't seem too bad. His melee was hitting me for about 9-12k and his lashes were hitting me for about 13-15k. The melee nerf will help significantly. Make the spikes a priority for ur ranged DPS and it'll be smooth.

We got to Saurfang and got him to 13% but wiped. Not too bad for a 1st run and some pugs, imo.

steven
12-15-2009, 10:17 AM
yea thats what i thought . thanks it was just bugin me i had to ask

Muffin Man
12-15-2009, 12:37 PM
Yeah, looks like his 10m physical damage was roughly the same as 25m damage, from reports in this thread. Which can be a little hectic when you have half the healing throughput. ;)

I thought he hit hard intentionally to gear check tanks. His hits weren't *that* much harder than the giant skeletons (deathbound ward?), and our biggest problem was picking him up after a ww rather than tank death (although they died a few times too).

Eating a saberlash solo was pretty brutal, but still under 30k damage. So not quite a one-shot.

We'll see how it goes this week. Also, for the record our tanks are 10 man geared, although we do have emblem and heroic pieces so I guess technically we overgear the instance.

phaze
12-15-2009, 03:33 PM
I thought he hit hard intentionally to gear check tanks. His hits weren't *that* much harder than the giant skeletons (deathbound ward?), and our biggest problem was picking him up after a ww rather than tank death (although they died a few times too).


From looking at our 10m logs: we were seeing the Wards meleeing for ~7k while Marrowgar weighed in around ~16k, when they weren't spamming Saber Lash. For Saber Lash, the Wards were in the ~13k range, compared to Marrowgar's ~32k range; this fits the 200% weapon damage it reports as being.

For us, the biggest hurdle came from the healers getting behind when one of them took a Bone Spike. 1s swing time = tanks can drop quick at that rate. I'm looking forward to a lot less tank gibs after today's change. ;)

Treston
12-16-2009, 08:45 AM
This fight has become quite fun for me for some reason. Perhaps it's because everything so hinges on good tank movement and positioning. I don't know what it is about 25 man though that causes people not to be able to dodge fire. We worked on it for about 2 hours last night before splitting into two groups for some 10 man trials. Our 10 man group one shot him and the other did it in two. Whatever it is about the extra people that makes it so hard, I just can't figure it out.

I distinctly recall saying the phrase "It's just like hegian, dance round that flame boys! Dance!" which I may possibly never live down. We'll see.

I do want to point out that this fight does not seem to have an enrage mechanic. It's simply about survivability. Fire, spikes and to a less extent whirlwind are the only real killers if you've got a halfway decent heal team and tanks who can move correctly. If you are just dying repeatedly chances are good it's not because your dps wasn't high enough, but simply that people are dying for bad reasons. That being said, because there's no enrage (that we've come across anyway) there's no reason a dps with a healing offspec couldn't switch over for this fight.

Has anyone else noticed a correlation between the number of people in close proximity to him and whether he shoots fire at the tanks? Generally speaking we never get the coldflame in our direction, unless everyone (or nearly everyone, can't be too sure) is basically in melee range of the boss. Then he'll shoot flame at the tanks and we have to move. As long as the majority of the ranged are at range, it never seems to happen unless someone gets behind the tanks at range. I'd like to figure out if there's some magic number but at present I think we're just happy to get the loot and move on with the night.

Muffin Man
12-16-2009, 03:17 PM
From looking at our 10m logs: we were seeing the Wards meleeing for ~7k while Marrowgar weighed in around ~16k, when they weren't spamming Saber Lash. For Saber Lash, the Wards were in the ~13k range, compared to Marrowgar's ~32k range; this fits the 200% weapon damage it reports as being.

For us, the biggest hurdle came from the healers getting behind when one of them took a Bone Spike. 1s swing time = tanks can drop quick at that rate. I'm looking forward to a lot less tank gibs after today's change. ;)

So I figured it out.

I remember Marrowgar's saberlash being around 30k total, but I never ate it solo when we made 'good' attempts on him. So my log was full of hits between 12k and 16k.

I also swear the Wards were saberlashing for 16k, but that's probably because I didn't put up demo shout on them. We got two wards last week, so both tanks had to grab one, and we just split them up and ate lashes solo. For hits of up to 16k which is all I focused on.

In any case, my statement might still be true now that Marrowgar's been nerfed rather severely.

@Treston - I believe the coldflames work like blood nova or shadow crash. As long as a minimum number of people are in range, he'll only choose from them. If you fall below that minimum he'll choose from the entire raid.

Ahterprong
12-16-2009, 08:32 PM
Hey guys, tomorrow my guild will be stepping into ICC for the first time. As usual I'm here the night before watching your strats so I can steal... learn from you all. Thanks for all the help!

Draklor
12-17-2009, 12:48 AM
According to the latest bluepost (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=21723843880&sid=1) Lord Marrowgar is now tauntable.

Muffin Man
12-17-2009, 01:47 AM
So strange. I thought this boss was really well tuned. A giant gear check with some raid coordination thrown in on the phase transition. A perfect gateway boss to ICC.

Especially since gear wise Deathwhisper and the airship battle aren't that demanding. Oh well, he's still a gateway boss since I don't even think Saurfang hits as hard as him and he still does lots of things to test that your raid can push buttons and chew gum at the same time ;).

I'm just a little confused is all.

Chamenas
12-17-2009, 02:17 AM
An aggro-wipe with "not being tauntable" is frustrating, not fun and challenging. Are there ways around it? Yes. But it's easy to not land those perfectly and lose a key raid member or two and watch yourself wipe because you couldn't simply taunt him when he came out of the whirlwind.

orcstar
12-17-2009, 06:01 AM
An aggro-wipe with "not being tauntable" is frustrating, not fun and challenging. Are there ways around it? Yes. But it's easy to not land those perfectly and lose a key raid member or two and watch yourself wipe because you couldn't simply taunt him when he came out of the whirlwind.
Making Marrowgar tauntable just took out the single thing that made this fight interesting and challenging for tanks and dps. Stop dps right before he comes out of whirl, people with dots get range and tanks gogo make threat o someone dies.

Is more interesting then: stand back and taunt.

I'm sad they made this change. A lot of people have already overcome his taunt immunity and it added an extra layer of complexity which made this fight just a bit more interesting.

squats
12-17-2009, 06:11 AM
An aggro-wipe with "not being tauntable" is frustrating, not fun and challenging. Are there ways around it? Yes. But it's easy to not land those perfectly and lose a key raid member or two and watch yourself wipe because you couldn't simply taunt him when he came out of the whirlwind.

its not challenging or frustrating to have him untauntable. rogues can ToTT to the tank and hunters can MD and he will glue to the tanks anyways. The only thing frustrating about it is requiring your raiders to think.. is that really so bad?

FatherNature
12-17-2009, 10:48 AM
Just out of curiosity, approximately how much health does a bone graveyard spike have??

nethervoid
12-17-2009, 11:43 AM
Wow he's tauntable now? That will make this much easier, no doubt.

Our strat is to stack everyone on his butt, as some have illuded to here. This indeed causes all fire to shoot at the tanks (unless you have a hunter, since hunters can't get in close). It's not that hard to step side to side when there's a fire. Move right...move left...move right...move left... real easy, simple strafing.

netlabs
12-17-2009, 10:13 PM
Hi im Slavithin (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Darkmoon+Faire&n=Slavithin) a Paladin Tank, Raid Leader and Guild Master of The Legion of Honour (http://www.dmf-legion.wowstead.com) from EU Darkmoon Faire
Anyway im typing to see what you think to our guilds startergy for Lord Marrowgar.

After watching yours although you kill the boss it seemed very hectic with dps and healer all over the place to avoid the flames, even one side step reduses that players dps or a healer heals which is why we came up with this stratergy.

Phase 1
The 3 tanks go to the left corner of the room not too close to the wall, all other dps and healers stand a few feet to your right. before the boss is pulled one of your most trusted Melee dps needs a mark on his /her head for the raid to follow, this is essential as the raid needs to know where there giong.

Make the pull to the tanks. As Marrogar comes to the tanks ALL dps and healers follow the marked Melee dps and go straight under the boss, as the boss has a HUGE Hit box all Melee, healers and ranged (with the exeption of hunters) go under the boss and NUKE from within the same spot....Hunters unfortunatly you need to say some what at range due to the hit box however you can always be in range of the ranged dps should you get spiked.

reasons for this possitioning of the raid: You want the spikes to all apear in the same place, and as the Colf Flame starts from out of his hit box no member ever needs move to avoid Cold Flame minus tanks and possiblty hunters

Due to the boss having no other target out of hit box other than tanks and hunters its a good idea for your tanks to straft left one step then back right one step as the tanks seem to get targeted more than the hunters for cold flame. With this positioning Bone Spike Graveyards go down verry fast.

Phase 2
When the boss does his final Bone Spike Graveyard Prior to the AoE all raid dps are instructed to help on spikes and stop on boss, also the healers heal them up fast. once these are free the raid group speards out with healers going in all directions to heal though the AoE but NO raid members are to run in the direction of the tanks. Ranged and plate Melee must continue dps at this point.

Phase 3
I know there is not any tecnical Phase 3 but we like to call it that as it means there is a diference from the first Phase. So at the end of Phase 2 all 3 tanks make sure there in range of the boss and taunt as the Wirlwind comes to a end (hotfix made boss tauntable). As soon as a tank has agro the entire raid of healers and dps go and hide back under the boss and nuke, not forgetting to over heal the tanks till the first bone spikes.
DO THIS 3 OR 4 TIMES FOR THE EASYEST KiLL EVER
-------------------------------------------------------------
Hope this is helpfull and hope you try it, it worked very well for us with this as healers never needed to focus on dps hit by fire, and if you have 3 resto druids in the raid there Wild Growth can keep up the spiked members so other healers can focus on tanks.
If you like this Stratergy and try it please make a vid of it "cough" please say who posted the Stratergy on the vid aswell

manicus
12-18-2009, 01:53 AM
Wow he's tauntable now? That will make this much easier, no doubt.

Our strat is to stack everyone on his butt, as some have illuded to here. This indeed causes all fire to shoot at the tanks (unless you have a hunter, since hunters can't get in close). It's not that hard to step side to side when there's a fire. Move right...move left...move right...move left... real easy, simple strafing.

We did this last night and got "Boned". (Lore, you can stop giggling now).

Making this boss tauntable is a bit meh. It was one of the parts of the fight that made it interesting.

I can see how it was difficult for the special dps'ers whose dps is so crucial on marrowgar that it will overcome any bothersome mechanics like a threat wipe.

Nehama
12-19-2009, 05:12 AM
Anyone else noticed that in the text version for the movie, they say they used 3 tanks and 7 healers? :P

hameroid
12-20-2009, 05:56 PM
hey man can u tell me how much hp and def u need for the 10m version of icc? cus im gonna start raiding it soon and i wanna be prepared. thnx alot

Rizilliant
12-30-2009, 09:24 AM
As a prot pally, i have always had my "Hand of Reckoning" (single taunt) as part of my rotation...Is this wrong? I'm not understanding the DM to taunt at all...I've simply taunted every 8 secs as the taunt comes off cd...Should i stop doin this? May be a complete noob quesion, but ive never had threat issues until recently, and am wondering if this is why...?

squats
12-30-2009, 09:42 AM
As a prot pally, i have always had my "Hand of Reckoning" (single taunt) as part of my rotation...Is this wrong? I'm not understanding the DM to taunt at all...I've simply taunted every 8 secs as the taunt comes off cd...Should i stop doin this? May be a complete noob quesion, but ive never had threat issues until recently, and am wondering if this is why...?
While mobs dont become immune to taunt anymore you could run into problems doing this.

Normally a taunt will bring you up to the person with aggro's threat level, then force the mob/boss to attack you for a set amount of time.

When taunts DR takes effect it will cause the time that boss/mob is forced to attack you to be reduced down to 0 seconds. so on marrowgar you will eventually run into an issue where you will taunt but the boss wont be forced onto you.

The reason you havent noticed an issue with it is because your right by marrowgar and can start your threat rotation and it will make your threat go above the person below you. But if you taunt untill it hits DR and then try to taunt from range you will be out of luck

Quinafoi
12-30-2009, 09:59 AM
As a prot pally, i have always had my "Hand of Reckoning" (single taunt) as part of my rotation...Is this wrong? I'm not understanding the DM to taunt at all...I've simply taunted every 8 secs as the taunt comes off cd...Should i stop doin this? May be a complete noob quesion, but ive never had threat issues until recently, and am wondering if this is why...?

On a fight where you have to trade aggro, you should not use Hand of Reckoning in your normal rotation (Lady Deathwhisper and Deathbringer Saurfang for instance require tanks to trade aggro). Deminishing returns functions on a 20 second timer. That means after the last time your taunt had an effect, you have to wait 20 seconds before the next taunt will have its full effect. There are 4 levels of deminishing returns (different abilities may have a different factor): 100%, 50% (or 60%), 25% (or 30%), and 0%. So if you taunt three times in a row, your third taunt only fixates aggro for 25% of the base duration. All taunts after that for a full 20 seconds will fixate aggro 0% of the time. After 20 seconds since the last successful cast, diminishing returns resets and the next cast will have 100% effect.

This fight isn't an aggro trading fight, rather it is a single tank fight where the offtanks have to stand in the same spot to split damage. Since only one of the tanks is actively tanking, if that's you, by all means use Hand of Reckoning on every cooldown. If someone else is supposed to main tank it and you're an off tank, well shame on you for taunting the boss.

Bashal
12-30-2009, 10:37 AM
Taunts are for regaining control of a mob or boss that you lost threat on, or for trading aggro back and forth between tanks.

It's really not a good idea to have taunt in your rotation -- there's the DR effect as mentioned, but what if you have it on cooldown when you actually need it?

Rizilliant
01-04-2010, 10:12 AM
Thanks for the help here...I have removed it from my rotation, and am noticing improvment...In the future ill keep it as a means to "grab" aggro only, rather then help to sustain it...Thanks again =D

Obliteral
01-16-2010, 02:41 PM
tbh great guide and were can i get that ui :o!

Sheezy
01-19-2010, 05:54 AM
I'm so embarrassed, you can see where I d/c. Then it's "Sheezy has come online" lol.

Laoch
01-27-2010, 02:02 AM
Another great video from tankspot - keep up the good work guys. While my comment isn't related directly to Marrowgar I thought this would be the most appropriate place to put it. During the trash clear leading up to him my guild found that the Deathbound Wards' traps can be activated with a crashin' thrashin' racer (the traps tend to be near the blue brazers or under the feet of the central mobs in both rooms). Particularly for 10 mans if no rogue or warlock is available this can help control when to fight them or of course activate them for extra rep gain. I hope this is of some use to someone, please move the post if there is a better place for it to be - I didn't find one.

Baervar
01-27-2010, 02:48 AM
As a prot pally, i have always had my "Hand of Reckoning" (single taunt) as part of my rotation...Is this wrong? I'm not understanding the DM to taunt at all...I've simply taunted every 8 secs as the taunt comes off cd...Should i stop doin this? May be a complete noob quesion, but ive never had threat issues until recently, and am wondering if this is why...?

I bet the other tank loves you in a toc10/25 run, especially on gormok :P

Bloodey
01-30-2010, 01:03 PM
I found an alternative strategy. If you place all melee and ranged beneath Lord Marrowgar won't they be hit by flames and the spikes can be dpsed at once.

Rennadrel
01-30-2010, 03:08 PM
I bet the other tank loves you in a toc10/25 run, especially on gormok :P
It's not a bad idea if you are the main tank though, I do it just to keep aggro up, in fights where the OT has to taunt off though, it is only necessary to use it when actually taunting the boss back to you.

Muffin Man
02-01-2010, 12:47 PM
I don't understand how this can ever help you as a tank. Especially after starting this thread: http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?61547-The-hardest-part-to-Rotface I strongly feel that it really only causes problems.

Also, note the changes in patch 3.2: http://www.wowwiki.com/Hand_of_Reckoning no longer does damage on targets attacking you. So just no... it's a taunt not a staple of your rotation.

Driniun
02-21-2010, 03:32 AM
With the changes to Marrowgar back in December, I'm wondering if 7 healers is still needed for the 25-man version of him. How many healers are recommended for this now? My guild went in with 5 healers and our tanks pretty much got rocked, it always looked like our two OT's took some major hits back to back causing us to wipe. Could this be a positioning problem or just bad luck?

Bollhoj
03-07-2010, 04:57 PM
Nothing relevant really, but I really liked the blood-skin, what is it called? :)

Imanut
03-09-2010, 08:43 AM
If

adamt212
04-07-2010, 06:10 PM
What is the UI you are using i really would like to know as I have been searching for a new UI and yours looks awesome.

Avalos
04-12-2010, 01:11 AM
I swear this boss has extreme prejudice against me. Sometimes our guild will one shot him no prob... then there are those days where hes like someone peed in his cheerios or something. Whether I am tank healing or raid healing. I'll get bone spiked, and immediately thrown into a cold flame as soon as i get down "fail" if its not that a flame will come at me, i'll side step........and it follows me...... i side step again..... it follows me... rinse and repeat leaving me only time to shield and HOT myself.... it isn't as bad when I'm tank healing obviously because the raid healer is helping me out. But i swear he smells when i raid heal hes like KILL THE PRIEST BOOOOONNNNNNNE STOOORRRM!!!! Any suggestions?

Chtuluh
05-08-2010, 01:14 AM
Could someone tell me what is the addon in the bottom right corner ?
thank you

uglie
05-08-2010, 01:51 AM
@avalos
I know where you're coming from, as a tank i normally dont get put into flames, but then there are those days that he must be really pissed off at me and he just constantly puts me in flames. its quite annoying but not nearly as lethal in your situation since i'm already getting healed. The guild has also joking decided that those days are the days blizz is testing new boss mechanics and we just got lucky enough to be the test dummies.

cruddy76
06-01-2010, 03:50 PM
I have found that if all DPS (except for hunters) stack within circle under Marrowgar the flames are not an issue until he bone storms.

holygud
07-23-2010, 12:11 AM
Im Sorry if this Question is already answered, But what is that health add-on in the 10 man version of Lord marrowgar.. You know the one that lets you see his health? if not tell me what health bar addon these guys are using http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3zFud2T-5Y please tell me what addon paragon is using

Sharalindria
09-19-2010, 04:05 PM
Would mage arcane or fire spec be better for this encounter? Thanks.

Sky
09-20-2010, 06:03 PM
If your guild has a severe issue with bone spikes during bonestorm phase, Arcane.

Otherwise, Fire is much better.