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TeddyTauren
12-02-2009, 11:32 PM
it seems that im getting killed faster than our paladin tanks when i have better gear than they do.

this always seems to happen on 25man gormok, heroic and nonheroic.

no idea what to do about it, my gear is good, i know how to play my class. i know i need some better trinkets, still working on it, but even then theres no reason to assume ill live longer.

-Uskilloth of Kirin Tor

Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kirin+Tor&n=uskilloth)
or check WoW heroes if im in DPS gear.

Aggathon
12-03-2009, 12:30 AM
First off, spec:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#LAM00fZhZMItrx0didIzsGo:drTomz)

Do that.

Secondly:

TRINKETS OH MAH GAWD. Get rid of both of those ASAP. The Black Heart, Essence of Gossimir, and Glyph of Indominability are probably the 3 easiest to get ahold of.

Also for enchants, go with 225 armor to cloak, 240 armor to gloves, and 30stam/15 resil to shoulders.

Trinkets are the big thing though, those are 2 of the worst trinkets out there.

TeddyTauren
12-03-2009, 01:03 AM
k well as for talents, im trying to stay alive, threat isnt the issue. so id rather have those points in shield spec and imp spell reflect. and since ive been demoted to OT i figured having safeguard would help keep the MT alive on say icehowl or something of that sort. no?

eitriggs oath no good?

TeddyTauren
12-03-2009, 01:41 AM
im also trying to find a place to verify that those enchants are better, it doesnt seem like it would be

Fayre
12-03-2009, 01:46 AM
If you're really worried about staying alive, the best spec would involve Imp Demo Shout and Commanding Presence (unless both of those buffs are usually covered in your raid team).

I do recommend you replace those trinkets. If you're talking about Gormokk, it's all about your stamina and armor in that fight - his Impale isn't avoidable, and nor is the DoT that's left. The enchant changes recommended are good - also replace your shield enchant with 22 def or 18 stam.

As the fight progresses, particularly in ToGC, you need to start using cooldowns to survive the application of the impale - check your boss mods and use Last Stand / Shield Wall to cover later applications.

squats
12-03-2009, 01:51 AM
k well as for talents, im trying to stay alive, threat isnt the issue. so id rather have those points in shield spec and imp spell reflect. and since ive been demoted to OT i figured having safeguard would help keep the MT alive on say icehowl or something of that sort. no?

eitriggs oath no good?

if threat isnt an issue then use this
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#LAZGVZVItrx0didczsGo:drTomz)

your going to take a huge threat dump if you use this, but it has imp demo shout. however This is the normal spec (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#LAM00fZhZVItrx0didczsGo:drTomz)

And using intervene on the main tank would most likely cause a dps to pull off of the tank and cause a wipe. Safeguard is almost completely useless unless your using it on a dps or a tank that is holding adds that arnt getting touched.

Martie
12-03-2009, 01:56 AM
k well as for talents, im trying to stay alive, threat isnt the issue. so id rather have those points in shield spec and imp spell reflect. and since ive been demoted to OT i figured having safeguard would help keep the MT alive on say icehowl or something of that sort. no?

eitriggs oath no good?
5% more chance to block won't save you against the big tank killers. Either the damage is unblockable, or the damage is too big for the block to make a real difference.

Spell reflect is barely usefull as far as I know. Boss spells generally don't miss, and even if they did, they won't miss enough to make a real difference.

Get rid of those avoidance trinkets. Stamina trinkets are great, the armor trinket from emblems as well. If you can't take the damage dealt by the bosses, grabbing more avoidance is a bad plan, unless the damage comes in the form of multiple quick blows.

For the beasts, you need to make use of your cooldowns a lot, since the damage spikes that are present are high.

TeddyTauren
12-03-2009, 02:01 AM
yea pallies handle the AP debuff while one of our 4 fury warriors does the shouting. looking into the enchants i see why theyre better now.

as for trinkets, are they good for fights that are not gormokk? there is quite a bit of dodge in there, which is neat and seems more helpful than armor from glyph which i would be buying to replace one of em

TeddyTauren
12-03-2009, 02:09 AM
And using intervene on the main tank would most likely cause a dps to pull off of the tank and cause a wipe.

i dont see why

Martie
12-03-2009, 02:15 AM
The armor gives you a physical damage intake reduction. Things like melee and impale are affected by this. Armor works against every physical attack.
Dodge gives you a small chance to avoid the melee attacks completely.
Avoidance cooldowns are great on Gormok, in my opinion. I always pop both my trinkets after the second stack, but the armor and stamina the trinkets give me is far more important.

Intervene eats threat - that's why you don't use it on tanks.
(Hell, I'm a paladin and I know that.)

swelt
12-03-2009, 02:20 AM
if threat isnt an issue then use this
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#LAZGVZVItrx0didczsGo:drTomz)

Taking imp hs but not focussed rage is fairly obviously a mistake. Don't use that build, especially if you are partnering with a prot pally that has (as he should) specced vindication.

Intervene reduces the threat of the target by 10%, hence intervening the MT can result in agro issues (especially on Icehowl, where being stunned and our of range for periods of time can make threat awkward.)

Seriously though, I think the key word here is "this always seems to happen on 25man gormok, heroic and nonheroic." There are a bazillion threads on this forum and in the CC Strategy section about Gormokk, about the fact that the impale hit kills tanks, especially once he gains more and more stacks of rising anger, and how your raid strategy needs to take that into account. Because paladins' ardent defender is a very good counter to impale (the 'damage reduction that would take you below' bit of AD, not the cheat death bit), people that don't understand the mechanics come away with "paladin lived, warrior died". In fact the root cause is "raid leader / tanks haven't agreed a plan for handling the impales". Go watch the addendum vid here: http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f206/55199-coliseum-northrend-beasts-hard-mode.html

TeddyTauren
12-03-2009, 02:22 AM
threat is never an issue. tanks outstrip the DPS threat. itd be free mitigation for the MT.

and what about the dodge trinkets on non-gormok bosses?

Martie
12-03-2009, 02:23 AM
Stamina and armor are better passive abilities then avoidance on trinkets.
This is true for 95% of the bosses out there.
Stamina always works, armor almost always works, avoidance may work.

TeddyTauren
12-03-2009, 02:28 AM
Taking imp hs but not focussed rage is fairly obviously a mistake. Don't use that build, especially if you are partnering with a prot pally that has (as he should) specced vindication.

taking imp HS gets you down to impale tho which is the point right?

Mr.Winkle
12-03-2009, 02:33 AM
yea pallies handle the AP debuff while one of our 4 fury warriors does the shouting. looking into the enchants i see why theyre better now.

as for trinkets, are they good for fights that are not gormokk? there is quite a bit of dodge in there, which is neat and seems more helpful than armor from glyph which i would be buying to replace one of em


From a healers perspective i can tell you now that those dodge trinkets are useless. As a holy paladin i spam Holy Lights into the tanks for the enitre duration of gormok.

Dodging the odd strike, or even half of them, won't help when that one that dies hit, combined with an impale tick, destroys your HP bar. Extra dodge just = more overheal in TOGC.

The trinkets are plain BAD for tanking in TOGC. Surely you've at least got the direbrew stam trinkets?

TeddyTauren
12-03-2009, 02:37 AM
funnily enough i took my break from WoW (it lasted a month) at the exact wrong time to miss out on those

swelt
12-03-2009, 02:46 AM
Well if you know what you are doing, you can intervene the MT and yes it's free mitigation.. but it costs you useful talent points and until just now you didn't know you were reducing the tanks total threat on the boss by 10% each time...

On bosses where you are at no real risk of dying, sure... use whatever trinks you like. Dodge trinkets will let your healers focus on other things, or you could use threat/damage trinkets.

Aggathon
12-03-2009, 02:46 AM
threat is never an issue. tanks outstrip the DPS threat. itd be free mitigation for the MT.

Unless your DPS are terrible they WILL outthreat your tanks if you use intervene. Also, if you want to use a cooldown other than a tank cooldown there are a LOT of other options. Hand of sacrifice, pain suppression, and guardian spirit all come to mind. You can also shield wall over 2 impales.



Seriously though, I think the key word here is "this always seems to happen on 25man gormok, heroic and nonheroic." There are a bazillion threads on this forum and in the CC Strategy section about Gormokk, about the fact that the impale hit kills tanks, especially once he gains more and more stacks of rising anger, and how your raid strategy needs to take that into account. Because paladins' ardent defender is a very good counter to impale (the 'damage reduction that would take you below' bit of AD, not the cheat death bit), people that don't understand the mechanics come away with "paladin lived, warrior died". In fact the root cause is "raid leader / tanks haven't agreed a plan for handling the impales".
^ This, actually because of the way I use my cooldowns, I take LESS damage than both our pally and feral druid on this fight.


Source: squats
if threat isnt an issue then use this
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#LAZGVZVItrx0didczsGo:drTomz)
Taking imp hs but not focussed rage is fairly obviously a mistake. Don't use that build, especially if you are partnering with a prot pally that has (as he should) specced vindication.Swelt is correct, but worded it incorrectly. This is the typical "max survivability spec" Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#LVZGV00xZVItMx0didczsGo:drTomz)
Though I typically call bunk on it especially if you have the shouts covered by other classes. You could also use squats but take the points from HS and put them into focused rage if commanding shout is covered.



and what about the dodge trinkets on non-gormok bosses? *slams head into wall repeatedly*

This isn't really frustration towards you as it is in general. The answer is a very emphatic no. The valor trinket is one of the worst you could use. I actually think that the level 70 trinket from BT might be better. Eitriggs is also awful, not only because the raw dodge is next to useless on the abilities that will kill tanks, but because the on use is reactive, not proactive. And it's even delayed and relies on you getting hit, when you are needed to use a trinket, you typically either don't want to get hit at all, or be able to survive the next hit. Lets say you need to reduce a lot of damage taken because your health drops really low. You hit the trinket and... nothing happens! you get hit, you die. If you hadn't died you would have gained some armor, but not enough to really help you with that low of hit points already. The only fight that I can even see eitrigg's be even remotely beneficial on is algalon because he attacks so fast, but even then I would tend to prefer the raw stam on a regular trinket over the on use effect of eitrigg's.

UNTIL CONTENT DEMANDS OTHERWISE DO NOT USE AVOIDANCE TRINKETS!!!!! There is currently no fight in the game that favors using avoidance trinkets (I don't count anub adds because you use block trinkets for that and that is technically mitigation, not avoidance).

Stam stam, stamity stam, stam sta stam stam stam.
http://www.sternplanet.com/boards/images/gifs/beatingdeadhorse.gif


Seriously dude, the people in this thread are giving you some VERY good advice. Listen to them, armory them. We've been doing this fight for months and have been responding to thread after thread about this very topic. This is how you beat this fight, make the changes we suggest, use your cooldowns wisely, and you will win.

Edit: sorry if this post sounds harsh, I ran an EoE today with 4 dps doing less than 1k dps (not sure how). My tolerance has been somewhat lowered today. The post is not meant to be personal. I really do want to help you, and if you follow our advice it will help.

swelt
12-03-2009, 02:48 AM
taking imp HS gets you down to impale tho which is the point right?

You should certainly take imp HS in an impale build. The build that was linked and which I was referring to was not an impale build, it was an imp Demo Shout build.

Aggathon
12-03-2009, 02:53 AM
You should certainly take imp HS in an impale build. The build that was linked and which I was referring to was not an impale build, it was an imp Demo Shout build.

Again, ^ This. And if you do go with an impale build, pick up deep wounds. It is a must have.

TeddyTauren
12-03-2009, 02:56 AM
i ask these questions not to infuriate you or to show disbelief, but to find out WHY i am doing these things. blindly following is bad, i prefer to ask questions and get specific answers than to just say ok ill do that.

i am taking pretty much all of this advice, i took squats normal build and put 2 from AttT into safeguard. IMO if a tank needs a cooldown, its either so early into the fight that id rather wipe it and try again or hes got more than enough threat as it is.

got glyph of last stand, which i thought had a negative effect on it, but apparently does not, and ill be getting new enchants tomorrow including blood draining.

thanks for the help

of course if there is more feel free to let me know

EDIT: no worries agg :)

Aggathon
12-03-2009, 03:04 AM
I still STRONGLY recommend against safeguard and using intervene. A tank shouldn't need a cooldown early on gormok, you need the cooldowns later in the fight when the impale stacks are high.

Are you using 2 tanks or 3?

If you are using 2 you can do a 2 tank 3 stack rotation, where every 3 stacks the next tank taunts, Doing this the tank not currently tanking will still have bleed stacks when he picks up the boss, but they stacks will fall off just before the impale hits and resets them. There are about 14 impales in a typically phase 1, therefore there will be about 5 rotations. I recommend using cooldowns on the last 7, though the first impale in the rotation can be ignored. Impale increases damage based off of number of buffs gormok has and number of impales currently on you. Since shield wall is 12 seconds and impale is on a 10 second timer, you can shield wall 2 impales at some point.

With 3 tanks you can do a 3 tank 2 taunt rotation, and it makes healing very easy and the tanks can use lots of personal cooldowns and be fine. druids with barkskin are nice, AD is nice for pallies, shield wall/ls/shield block (to mitigate the melee on top of the impale) for warriors are all very nice, and don't neglect enraged regen.

gabbu
12-03-2009, 03:05 AM
Like many people said before and I am just repeating because seems like you are missing the point somwhere.

For survival,

1. Get Glyph of Last Stand
2. Use improved Demo Shout Spec
3. Get the following trinkets, The Black Heart - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47216) Glyph of Indomitability - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47735)

Few more things,

1. If you are dieing on Normal Gormok 25 man something else is wrong, you have the gear to tank him.
2. Points in Puncture, Imp Spell Reflect and Safeguard is probably not as useful as you think they are no matter if you are tanking the boss or adds.

:)

TeddyTauren
12-03-2009, 03:10 AM
we used 2 tanks in normal and after i died several times, got replaced by a pally tank, then 3 tanks on heroic where again i got replaced after getting killed several times.

Xianth
12-03-2009, 03:40 AM
Even in that gear you shouldn't be dying in normal mode.

It's a cooldown issue.

Synapse
12-03-2009, 03:48 AM
On the demo shout spec thing: A Smart Paladin has vindication, dismissing the need of imp demo shout for Gormok.

gabbu
12-03-2009, 03:55 AM
we used 2 tanks in normal and after i died several times, got replaced by a pally tank, then 3 tanks on heroic where again i got replaced after getting killed several times.

If you died on normal it is one of the following,

1. No Cooldowns available when you died.
2. Healers not switching when you taunted gormok (Yes he hits hard on 25 even on normal) or healers forgetting to heal you when other tank taunted as you still have bleed running on you.

If you link a parse (WMO/WOL) of when you died I can sure dig out what happened.

**FYI, I am strictly talking about normal here, on heroic you need cooldowns.

Also I will add explanations to why everyone is suggesting what they are suggesting,

1. You said you are having survival issues thats why Improved Demo spec was suggested, with 5 points in Demo you have a good bit of melee damage reduction.
2. Glyph of last stand will reduce the cooldown of Last Stand so you can use it more often.
3. Most of what kills you on Gormok can not be blocked or dodged so that the reason everyone said you should use Stam/Armor trinkets.
4. Intervene reduces tanks threat and hence not suggested and those 2 points are spent much better elsewhere like AtT, focused rage etc etc.
5. Points in puncture are useless as you dont use sunder and devastate already has pretty low rage cost.
6. No ability in current raids can be spell reflected AFAIK, so improved spell reflect is kinda useless.
7. You are way over uncrittable defense limit so you can change your enchants to stam or armor, say 30 stam on shoulder (PvP enchant), armor on cloak, 18 stam on shield, 18 Stam on hands, 22 Stam on boots, Blood Draining on weapon etc etc, this all will give you an EH boost.

Hope this clarifies

bth2376
12-03-2009, 06:42 AM
First off, spec:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#LAM00fZhZMItrx0didIzsGo:drTomz)

Do that.

Secondly:

TRINKETS OH MAH GAWD. Get rid of both of those ASAP. The Black Heart, Essence of Gossimir, and Glyph of Indominability are probably the 3 easiest to get ahold of.

Also for enchants, go with 225 armor to cloak, 240 armor to gloves, and 30stam/15 resil to shoulders.

Trinkets are the big thing though, those are 2 of the worst trinkets out there.

Those are the only real enchant/gearing differences I can think of, can't really talk about the spec, I don't know much about warrior tank specs, mines always been Fury.

geros
12-03-2009, 06:47 AM
UNTIL CONTENT DEMANDS OTHERWISE DO NOT USE AVOIDANCE TRINKETS!!!!! There is currently no fight in the game that favors using avoidance trinkets (I don't count anub adds because you use block trinkets for that and that is technically mitigation, not avoidance).

Vezax most certainly favors avoidance over EH. Algalon favors avoidance as well. The proper wording of that statement is most content that favors stacking avoidance.

Aggathon
12-03-2009, 12:12 PM
Vezax most certainly favors avoidance over EH. Algalon favors avoidance as well. The proper wording of that statement is most content that favors stacking avoidance.


That has been the complete opposite of my experience actually. When we killed vezax hardmode pre-nerf, we used a feral druid that stacked EH to the teeth and he single tanked it. Survival instincts is OP.

If healers didn't have to move for algalon I might agree, but because of cosmic smash you need to be able to survive an unlucky avoidance streak. I stack EH for algalon, the EHP curve is REALLY high. It's tough for warriors to get to a comfortable level where avoidance becomes preferred.

Risky
12-03-2009, 12:20 PM
Vezax most certainly favors avoidance over EH. Algalon favors avoidance as well. The proper wording of that statement is most content that favors stacking avoidance.

Yeah, actually this is largely incorrect, and I'm wondering who ever said this in the first place. Most our threads at tankspot show that EH is largely important to your survival here. There's no favoring avoidance in Uld.

Vezax favors EH past where 2 consequtive hits would not kill you.

Algalon favors EH past where 2 star explosions and 1 hit/ 1 PP from Alg would not kill you.

Don't post bad information to prove a point!

TeddyTauren
12-03-2009, 12:26 PM
stam vs armor enchant on gloves?

Aggathon
12-03-2009, 12:33 PM
Yeah, actually this is largely incorrect, and I'm wondering who ever said this in the first place. Most our threads at tankspot show that EH is largely important to your survival here. There's no favoring avoidance in Uld.

Vezax favors EH past where 2 consequtive hits would not kill you.

Algalon favors EH past where 2 star explosions and 1 hit/ 1 PP from Alg would not kill you.

Don't post bad information to prove a point!

2 star explosions +1 hit +1 PP is like 50k damage minimum. But also if 2 stars explode at the same time then the raid dies. My deaths from algalon have been either unlucky avoidance streaks that I couldn't survive because I didn't have EH stacked, or from healers having to move out of cosmic smash, not keeping me topped, and an unlucky avoidance string comes andn kills me. Algalon hurts, you need a lot of EHP.

And again, when did vezax hardmode pre-nerf with a druid stacking raw EHP that double tanked it. How we did all these fights pre-nerf is by stacking EHP. Since we used a druid double tanking, he needed to have enough EHP to survive 2 hits from vezax and 2 from the saronite animus. So he had to stack a LOT of EHP. And it worked very well.

And actually Risky I mis-read your post, but I believe ours still agree, so /hattip.

Aggathon
12-03-2009, 12:38 PM
stam vs armor enchant on gloves?

This is actually a really close call the EHP calculations are very close, there's an EHP calculator on the top bar of these forums, you may want to plug in those numbers. For me armor comes out just barely ahead(but then again I also cheat and don't use 240 armor, I use the OP 885 engineering armor to glove enchant), but if there is any component of a fight that is not mitigated by armor, then often stamina becomes better. So either one is okay. Like I said, I prefer armor, but I wouldn't turn my nose up at stam either.

drae
12-03-2009, 12:56 PM
Yar the threat build is called "Deepwounds" build for a reason, deepwounds is the primo talent, not impale.

To the OP:

There is so much info on this fight on these forums, research, read, look it up. Listen to the people who are trying to help you, really listen, don't just read their post and pre-decide your assumptions are correct, 90% of the people who answer these types of questions really do know what they are talking about. This fight is a tank killer, people have been coming to this site for months to learn how to do this fight, we are very well versed.

Theotherone
12-03-2009, 01:47 PM
Change your healer. I'm serious. I'm convinced, fights these days are all about healers understanding virtually every fight is like the Patch in the old Naxx 25. I find the best healers are the ones who remember those days of spamming heals through Hatefuls. Pretty simple math, if I have 44k HP and the boss is hitting for 21k and DoT is ticking, the healer has to keep me at at least 28k (30k to be safe). Sorry if they think over healing is a waste of manna or some type of fatal flaw to their healing prowess, a dead tank is fatal to the raid.

As you may pick up I'm kind of down on the plethora of complacent healers I've run into in PuGs these days.

TeddyTauren
12-03-2009, 02:02 PM
i find it slightly amusing that you assume im blowing you guys off.

well i am on intervene, but other than that... :P

Senzsei
12-03-2009, 03:13 PM
i find it slightly amusing that you assume im blowing you guys off.

well i am on intervene, but other than that... :P


Well, I don't know why folks are saying this is a cooldown issue. Looking at your Armory profile, your gear is fairly low iLvl; certainly enough to leave you open to "death by impale". If you were in 245 gear like your post title entails, this would be a vexing problem, but not so much here.

You are dieing because you are undergeared, and mostly likely the heals you are receiving simply can't keep you from suffering a quick frag.

Aggathon
12-03-2009, 03:15 PM
Teddy - do you mind typing out the entire strat your guild is currently using to try and down this boss?

Also I have to agree that this could very well be a healer problem. I've actually solo tanked him on normal just kinda using cooldowns when I had the feel for it. Granted our dps is really really good so on normal we get about 8 stacks.

But anyways, post your strat and I can help you with cooldown rotations if you'd like.

squats
12-03-2009, 03:26 PM
i dont see why

Intervene drops your threat by a large chunk (as others have said) and yes, i realise my mistake and dont use the spec i provided.

TeddyTauren
12-03-2009, 03:32 PM
i logged out in SBV/SBR gear last time. with a fishing pole. so check wowheroes if it hasnt updated.

ill get that strat in a bit

TeddyTauren
12-03-2009, 03:36 PM
what we had for normal 25man was 2 tanks, gonzo and i. gonzo took him first, when he got 2 stacks i taunted. when his debuff got to about 4 seconds left he would taunt. and then when mine got to 4 seconds i would taunt etc.

for heroic, we had 3 tanks, gonzo allinastus and i. gonzo first allin second and me third. same deal, taunting with 4 seconds left on a 2 stack

Insahnity
12-03-2009, 03:38 PM
The one thing that sticks out for me on this thread is as follows:
For spec, I've always thought it was 15/5/51 to get deep wounds for threat, or 5/15/51 if threat is not an issue but survival is. And specifically, this is what I was thinking for survival spec. Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#LVZGV00xZVItrx0didczsho:drTomz)

As for the rest, with the SBV gear and fishing pole. I can't say much more.

TeddyTauren
12-03-2009, 03:42 PM
im going to try to convince raid leaders that i should go first gonzo second and allin third though, since that would put gonzo on impale #14 and allin on #15 if DPS is slow

Unger
12-03-2009, 03:42 PM
As a warrior tank that is an MT in Heroic TOC, I feel like there are a few things you should know for survival on Gormak.

1) You need cooldowns. I use my own for the first rotation... last stand for the 2nd and 3rd impale and shieldwall for the 4th. On the second rotation, I get a cooldown from a priest of a paladin (DS or PS works great). Warrior tanks need it to survive.

2) You need to make sure you are NOT carrying a bleed into phase II if you are tanking a worm. Get a BOP from a Pally to remove the stack after Gormak goes down. Make sure you click it off.

3) The Yeti hits hard... again, use cooldowns for head butts. Trinkets, shieldwall, last stand all work. Call for another cooldown in phase III if you need it (you will).

Jax, twins and faction champs wont require cooldowns so you are good (I often rage starve on Jax). For Anub, you'll likely get OT duty on adds for being a warrior so get your block set going.

Dont be afraid to use your cooldowns. You wont need em in phase II so use them in phase I and they will be back in phase III.

Also, give your team a huge dps boost and tank second. Charge in battle stance, get 5 sunders up and shattering throw. You can switch to defensive and still have plenty of time before you have to tank.

TeddyTauren
12-03-2009, 03:43 PM
oh and wow-heroes has apparently been upgraded, ill log off in my proper tank gear after this ToC

Aggathon
12-03-2009, 04:03 PM
im going to try to convince raid leaders that i should go first gonzo second and allin third though, since that would put gonzo on impale #14 and allin on #15 if DPS is slow

It should go like this, imo (though I don't know what spec/class Gonzo and Allin are).

Impale 1 and 2: Gonzo
Impale 3 and 4: You, use enraged regen and shield block, last stand if absolutely necessary, but these shouldn't hurt that hard
Imaple 5 and 6: Allin, lets assume this is a druid, he can probably barksin and it will be back up when he tanks again.
Imaple 7 and 8: Gonzo use a cooldown, probably hand of sacrifice here
Imaple 9 and 10: you take these, shield wall them both, watch your DMB timers and hit shield wall 1 second before impale 9 and it will overlap until 10, if you haven't used last stand, maybe use that here as well. After Allin taunts off you get a BoP then Freedom from someone.
Impale 11 and 12: Allin - Barksin again or other cooldown, hand of sac, or PS or something of that nature.
Imaple 13 and 14: Gonzo - pally shield wall or w/e gonzo is, keep him 'till 15 if necessary and use guardian spirit, if it goes to 16 it will be a wipe.

TeddyTauren
12-03-2009, 04:09 PM
theyre both pallies. not that it matters really.

armory seems to be down now.

Aggathon
12-03-2009, 04:23 PM
theyre both pallies. not that it matters really.

armory seems to be down now.

We've never tried it but they could hand of sack eachother when the time comes, if pallies have beacon on both tanks it should be very healable.

TeddyTauren
12-03-2009, 04:42 PM
aha correct gear is back up

Unger
12-03-2009, 04:43 PM
The second impale you take will hurt a little and if youre unlucky, it will kill you without some kind of cooldown. I recommend that you use your cooldowns RIGHT before the second impale and take it to the third. Remember Shield wall is 12 seconds and last stand is 20, so you can eat the 2nd and 3rd without any real problem (10 seconds between impales).

So using 3 tanks, you can use your last stand for your first rotation and your shield wall for your second rotation. You only have to deal with 14 impales, so have a pally go first (1-3), you go second (4-6), 3rd tank go third (7-9), first tank again (10-12) and you again (13-14). The other tank wont even see a rotation.

Or you can switch to 2 tanks for the extra dps. That is what my guild does.