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Swam
12-01-2009, 04:27 AM
OK right mow my guild has 3 10 man toc groups. @ main groups and an alt run of those groups. We have other people that slip into the alt group when they are on or whatever but for the most part Its the 2 main 10 mans.

Recently we were able to finally have a guild clear of 25 toc. Having the people on who could put out the dps needed to down anub has been a nightmare until last week, now 2 weeks running we have downed him with little trouble.

Now here is where we have run into an annoyance. For our 25 mans there are usually 18 main raiders and the rest are extra guildies we bring in cause we dont want to pug. We dont use a dkp system so these people get equal chance on loot as the main raiders. Now often this is ok but every once and a while someone who is doing less dps than the tanks will win a piece of gear that one of the main raiders has been after since we hit 25 mans.

Any ideas on how we can let main raiders have priority without pissing to many people of or resorting to dkp?

Bung
12-01-2009, 04:43 AM
Not really no. A guildie is a guildie, not a pugger so go dkp imo. My guild does a variation of dkp which says the person with a minimum of 40k dkp gets priority. Getting 40k dkp actually doesn't take very long so this system benefits the regular raiders and encourages the casual ones to get more invovled.

Fledern
12-01-2009, 05:00 AM
DKP isnt perfect but it does solve a lot of problems like the ones you mentioned.

One warning though, those casuals that come along will start thinking they'll never get anything as they dont show up as often, thus have low dkp. My experience is that actually that's not exactly correct. People who show up regularly will have dkp and start getting the items they want pretty fast. Those who show up every now & then with little dkp would find that while they may not get that one juicy piece that dropped, they do have shots at stuff the others have already got for a higher price.

We use a "minimum bid is 10, you can go minus dkp, if nobody else with dkp wants it" rule (you can easily earn 12 dkp or more in one night, 2 for boss kills, 2 for every hour of raiding). We usually end up with those few on-off people walking out with most of the loot AND the regular raiders still getting that one piece they were after for 2 months.

Ryoku
12-01-2009, 05:32 AM
Personally I wouldn't want a dkp system, but everybody is different.
Why not make the simple rule : You dps less then the tank, no loot for you. It is fair and I am sorry but a dps should be capable of making more then 3k or so in dps in a 25 man setting.

Martial
12-01-2009, 05:51 AM
I think its important to remember they are a guildie. If one of my guildies done less dps than a tank i'd MAKE them take the gear cos he bloody needs it!

You want to ensure fairness but if you're moving to 25mans then its worth letting some gear go towards the undergeared as they will be future co-raider.

Sometimes you /roll and dont get the gear. thats just the way it is sometimes as there are 25 peps and only a few bits of gear. At least you can sleep better at night knowing its gone to a fellow guildie rather than an annoyingly gobby little pug :P

jayhawk92555
12-01-2009, 02:02 PM
If they are willing to wipe with u they deserve loot. Either use DKP or let them have their gear. Its not fair for them to put in the work and not be alowed to get gear, now their dps ect will go up making the entire guild better and giving you more than the 18 you said are capable for 25m's.

Fayre
12-01-2009, 03:45 PM
Consider it an investment, and improve those players until they are main raiders.

Penlowe
12-01-2009, 04:56 PM
Our guild, albeit huge, has teams. Not every team has a full roster, they 'pug' from within the guild for whatever is needed when they run. Most teams have a 'home team advantage' rule. Open roll for loot, but if the team member chooses they can call priority. It very rarely gets used.

There was a tank trinket in Ulduar that refused to drop for one guy, dropped the night he was out, dropped for other teams, dropped the night his computer farted & threw him out of game for hours, just RNG hell, he called HTA when it finally did drop in his presence, no one was bothered by that.

Salloman
12-04-2009, 03:33 PM
I dont understand, these are Alts getting gear Main toons can use or undergeared Main toons?

If they are alts, then mains should get it, but if they are undergeared main toons, then how would they otherwise get gear to be considered main raiders?

This is why loot distribution by rolls dont work... EPGP all the way. My guild has seen successful raid progression from using this system because of this mentioned problem. Mains> alts... its highly adaptable, change it as you see fit. Loot Master it as you want. EPGP is really superior is so many ways.