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MudNova
11-30-2009, 09:42 PM
I use 275 health cause i consider it better, 10stats gives you some useless stats and 275 is 100% useful..

But... does 275 health scales with kings??

cause 10stats does

bth2376
11-30-2009, 09:44 PM
I've used 10 stats since it's come out, on both my tank and my dps. I prefer it due to the extra attribute points given to agil, str, etc. But then again, those could be really worthless, I'd imagine raid buffed 10 agility isn't going to really give me a lot of dodge.

On the note of the 275 scaling with kings, I have no idea, but I think it would.

MudNova
11-30-2009, 10:11 PM
i don't think it should, since Stats are stamina, strenght, agility, intellect, spirit...

Valquirie
11-30-2009, 11:01 PM
+275 Health should not scale with Kings, I'd think, since it's direct Health, while Kings increases HP by increasing Stamina by 10% (8% Forgotten).

However, I'd also think that as far as HP benefit from the two is concerned: +10 stats would give 11 stamina at most, translating into 110 Health, while +275 Health gives 275 Health. But, anything that increases stamina would also increase Health, while - to the best of my limited knowledge - almost nothing [else] directly increases Health.

For Death Knights (with VotTW (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=50029)):
+10 stats gives
10 + (10%*10) + (3%*10) = 11.3 stamina = 113 Health

+275 Health gives
275 Health

Therefore, the +275 Health enchant is better...

NB: I, literally, fail at maths; so, if someone could, please, verify if I am wrong or right...Thanks! :-)

As those before me have pointed out, though, +10 stats is nice because it increases all stats, but - as has been noted - not all stats are as necessary, e.g Agility, while useful, is not as high-priority as Stamina.

bth2376
11-30-2009, 11:06 PM
Since it possibly, and probably, does not stack with kings, I'm assuming Blessing of Sanc. is out of the question to eh? XD

Darn it all.

Darksend
11-30-2009, 11:11 PM
10 stats would give a druid 164 hp with kings in bear form.

to give a definitive answer 275 health is 275 health ALWAYS! 10 stats gets kings and whatever other stam modifiers a class gets

Valquirie
11-30-2009, 11:14 PM
@bth2376:
Yes, most likely. I keep saying "most likely" because I would never say I am 100.00% sure. :-) But Blessing of (Forgotten) Kings and Blessing of Sanctuary increase stamina, while +275 Health directly increases health without increasing stamina, unlike +10 stats.

@Darksend:
So, that would mean - if I understand it correctly - that +275 Health is better for Druid tanks, too...

Darksend
11-30-2009, 11:24 PM
no, 18 stam is 294 HP with kings in bear form.

MudNova
12-01-2009, 12:27 AM
no, 18 stam is 294 HP with kings in bear form.

we're not talking about 18 stam...

we're talking about 10 to all stats... (10stamina instead of 18).

And BTW, Valquirie, Agility is more important than strenght for paladins and druids...

The useless stats = Intellect/Spirit

Valquirie
12-01-2009, 12:30 AM
Ahh, I always thought Druid tanks looked at Agility; wasn't sure how important it was. :P
So, would +10 stats be better for Druids and Paladins, while +275 Health is better for Death Knights? What about warriors?

Darksend
12-01-2009, 12:35 AM
no, a druid wants 18 stam. a druid should never use 275 health.

Valquirie
12-01-2009, 12:37 AM
Aha! The Heavy Borean Armor Kit!?! :D I - and MudNova, too? - was wondering where the 18 stamina, all of a sudden, came from! :P But, yes, that's only stamina, no other stats are affected.

Satorri
12-01-2009, 07:06 AM
1.) 275 health receives no buffs currently (the only class that used to was DK's but they switched the +%health to +%stam on Frost Pres, Taurens got the same deal).

2.) If you're looking for pure health gain and nothing else, 275 health will give you more than 10 stats, regardless of class, and no one can beat Bear stamina scaling (thus Dark's comment).

3.) If you're looking for net value, you might get more out of 10 stats. Note: Bears get big %stam bonuses, and some small %Str/Agi(and the rest) too from talents in addition to Kings and Imp GotW. So for a Bear, maybe you want to get a little less health and a little more dodge, armor, crit, and AP (all of which are survival values to some degree, and half of which are threat as well).

So, the question is, what's important to you?

MudNova
12-01-2009, 10:44 AM
True fact... what is more important to you??
However, due to the way TotGC fights are... 275hp would be better imo... EHP ftw

Satorri
12-01-2009, 11:12 AM
What of armor? That increases the EH of the health on 10 stats. Though I won't do the math just now for each class... =)

MudNova
12-01-2009, 01:19 PM
does armor is counted as Stat?? O_o

If so, then 10stats could be better..

Darksend
12-01-2009, 01:24 PM
agi=armor

MudNova
12-01-2009, 01:57 PM
Yes, i know agi=armor. But i was wondering if the 10stats would also add some armor, since Armor is in the Base Stats menu..

At the end, i think i would just stick to 275hp...

Airowird
12-01-2009, 05:24 PM
What of armor? That increases the EH of the health on 10 stats. Though I won't do the math just now for each class... =)
Actually, as an avoidance-favoring tank, I got HP on my chest recently, simply because it provides equal TankPoints (and ofc more EH). The same reason I go for Stamina on Shield and Armor on Gloves. Although I do miss the Expertise atm, I'm loving my GoI trinket and glove enchant buffing me to 30k armor buffed.

Satorri
12-02-2009, 07:35 AM
10 Stats = 10 Str, 10 Agi, 10 Stam (and 10 Int, 10 Spi)



And I left it alone before, but technically Valquirie, a Blood DK (Vot3W) with rune of SSG and in Frost Presence:

10 Stam * 1.06 * 1.03 * 1.02 = 11.14 Stam

and with Kings/Sanc and Imp GotW:

10 Stam * 1.06 * 1.03 * 1.02 * 1.10 * 1.02 = 12.49 Stam = 125 health

Then 10 Agi (with Kings and Imp GotW) = 22 armor, ~0.1% dodge, and a little crit varying with class

10 Str for a Blood DK (Vot3W and Abom's Might) and raid buffs = 12.36 Str = 25 AP, and ~0.04% parry

10 Stats is a lot more split. If you're going for pure health or EH, then 275 health is more.

Valquirie
12-03-2009, 07:10 AM
. . .And I left it alone before. . .
Oops! Yeah, I never did the full maths, taking all buffs - and the benefits - into account. :-(
Thanks for showing all that, though. :-)

Bumbuckle
12-04-2009, 12:35 AM
See here. (http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f97/58707-tanking-dk-chest-enchant.html#post328264)

Aggathon
12-04-2009, 01:05 AM
The Agi from the 10 stats is (As previously stated) about equivalent to just less than 2 stamina. Bears have already been stated as +18 stats to chest being the best. The next best scalers (to my knowledge) is palidans. It's 14%, right (I focus more on warriors, I'll run those numbers too).

So for palidan:
2 stam from agi
10 stam x 1.14 x 1.1 x 10 = 125.4 hps + another ~ 20 equivalent HPs from the armor is 140.4 with kings. So... ya not even close to 275 in terms of EHP.

18 stam for pallies would be about 225.7 HP off of those current stats.

For Warrior:
2 stam from agi
10 stam X 1.06 x 1.1 x10 = 116.6 HPs + ~20 HP from armor is 136.6 with kings

18 stam for warriors is 209.88 HP. So again, not even close to 275.

As Darksend said, 18 stam is 294 HP for druids, so that is the only enchant that is better for a certain class.

So best enchants (in terms of EHP)
DK: 275 HP
Warrior: 275 HP
Pally: 275 HP
Druid: 18 stam

Satorri
12-04-2009, 06:48 AM
The Agi from the 10 stats is (As previously stated) about equivalent to just less than 2 stamina. Bears have already been stated as +18 stats to chest being the best.

What?

How are you making an equivalency for Agility with Stamina?

Also, there is no 18 Stats to chest, I'll just assume you mean 18 Stam (Heavy Borean Armor patch)?

Brucimus
12-04-2009, 06:53 AM
Heavy Borean Armor Kit - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=38376)

Aggathon
12-04-2009, 02:02 PM
What?

How are you making an equivalency for Agility with Stamina?

Also, there is no 18 Stats to chest, I'll just assume you mean 18 Stam (Heavy Borean Armor patch)?

10 agi = 20 armor which is about equivalent to just less than 2 stam in terms of EHP.