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Wilhem
11-28-2009, 08:50 AM
+10 to all Stats or +275 Health?

I'm currently sitting at 36K Unbuffed, 571 Defense, 30% Dodge and 19.8% Parry Self-buffed.

WoW Armory - Wilhem (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Malygos&n=Wilhem).

Ulosthegame
11-28-2009, 10:31 AM
+10 to all Stats or +275 Health?

I'm currently sitting at 36K Unbuffed, 571 Defense, 30% Dodge and 19.8% Parry Self-buffed.

WoW Armory - Wilhem (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Malygos&n=Wilhem).

I personally use +275 health.
+10 to all stats isn't really significant enough for a tank.

Though drop some defense 31 over the cap >.>
looking at your armory, I'd suggest dropping the +10 def/+15 stam gem on your boots, the socket bonus isn't really worth it.
and dropping the +20 dodge/+15 def shoulder enchant for the +30stam/+15 resil one. If you really wanted to you could switch the def/stam gem in your helm to +30 stam too, you don't need the def and you'd be 3 stam higher.

Wilhem
11-28-2009, 11:40 AM
If my items aren't socketed for straight stam then it's because I'm going for the socket bonuses. The only one I kind of waivered on are the bracers because it's only a +6 Stam socket bonus, but I like hit rating and hate being below the cap (which I am anyway, but every bit helps...). Also, from things i've read the +30 Stam/+15 Resilience enchant for shoulders isn't better than +20 Dodge/+15 Defense, it just provides it's benefit in a different way.

+10 Stats, is that 10 to Agility, Strength, Stam, Intellect and Spirit? ... I don't know, seems like it's a decent all around benefit, threat, parry, dodge, health... Am I wrong and it doesn't provide much of anything?

Thanks.

Ulosthegame
11-28-2009, 11:50 AM
If my items aren't socketed for straight stam then it's because I'm going for the socket bonuses. The only one I kind of waivered on are the bracers because it's only a +6 Stam socket bonus, but I like hit rating and hate being below the cap (which I am anyway, but every bit helps...). Also, from things i've read the +30 Stam/+15 Resilience enchant for shoulders isn't better than +20 Dodge/+15 Defense, it just provides it's benefit in a different way.

+10 Stats, is that 10 to Agility, Strength, Stam, Intellect and Spirit? ... I don't know, seems like it's a decent all around benefit, threat, parry, dodge, health... Am I wrong and it doesn't provide much of anything?

Thanks.

it's 10 to base stats, but
10 str is 20 ap, not too much.
10 stam is 100 hp ( 275>100 )
10 agility is a little armor and dodge ( not sure on exact conversions)
but it's really not alot.
Threat shouldn't be a problem so you should be trying to maximize survival and minimize RNG through effective health. dodge/parry/miss doesn't add to that ( but it isn't bad) but you shouldn't be straight gemming for avoidance other than to achieve your meta because even with socket bonuses 30+ stam is higher than the maximum of 27 from socket bonuses( +15 from gem, +12 from bonus)

and Icecrown, avoidance will play a role, but it seems like effective health will matter even more with less avoidance( more EH= more time healers have to heal you, even without as many spikes)

Not so much what you're doing is wrong, there's just "better" ways to do things.
As for hit, you REALLY don't need more than 100 rating to still pull decent threat. Expertise is good though, I've yet to get expertise offset drops :\ ( cape/rings/neck/belt/bracers/etc)

EDIT:
1 agility= 5 EH
1.5 stamina= 42.4 EH
10 armor= 42.6 EH

Wilhem
11-29-2009, 09:17 AM
EDIT:
1 agility= 5 EH
1.5 stamina= 42.4 EH
10 armor= 42.6 EH

Using those numbers, wouldn't +10 to chest be more than 275 health? Or does health not convert strictly to effective health?

10 agility = 50 health + EH from armor/dodge bonus (not sure how to convert that.)
10 Stamina = ~282 health.

Nurasha
11-29-2009, 12:58 PM
Using those numbers, wouldn't +10 to chest be more than 275 health? Or does health not convert strictly to effective health?

10 agility = 50 health + EH from armor/dodge bonus (not sure how to convert that.)
10 Stamina = ~282 health.

I would think health doesn't convert strictly because of frost presence or in the case of a blood tank Veteran talent increase amount of health gained from stamina.

Wilhem
11-29-2009, 01:53 PM
In Frost presence it's a 6% increase, so 6% of 275is 291.5, add 3% to that for Veteran of the Third War talent and it's 300 hp, still lower than 10 Agility and 10 Stam...

But i'm not good with all the EH math, just going on what seems to be right math to me... Can someone please correct me if i'm wrong?

Thanks!

Voodan
12-01-2009, 01:54 PM
Plus, it's important to keep in mind that Blessing of Kings affects the 10 stats to chest enchant but does not affect the 275 hp enchant. In a raid setting, I personally believe the slight increase to hp from the 275 hp enchant is outweighed by the combined avoidance/threat of the other stats (agi = crit/dodge, strength = parry/attack power)

Bumbuckle
12-01-2009, 09:50 PM
Some Math:

275 Health (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=47900) = 275 Health.

275 Health = 275 Health

+10 Stats (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=60692) = 10 Stamina, 10 Strength, 10 Agility.

10 Stamina = ~120 Health with Kings/FP/VotW
10 Strenth = 2.5 Parry rating = ~0.05% Parry before DR and 20 AP
10 Agility = ~0.1 Dodge Before DR, 20 Armor and 0.16% crit

In summary:
275 Health = 275 Health
10 Stats = ~120 health, 0.05% Parry, 0.1% Dodge, 20 Armor, 0.16% Crit and 20 AP

For EH: 275 Trumphs it massively.
For Avoidance: 10 Stats wins obviously.
For Threat: 10 Stats wins obviously.

Vencedor
12-02-2009, 03:16 AM
In Frost presence it's a 6% increase, so 6% of 275is 291.5, add 3% to that for Veteran of the Third War talent and it's 300 hp, still lower than 10 Agility and 10 Stam...

But i'm not good with all the EH math, just going on what seems to be right math to me... Can someone please correct me if i'm wrong?

Thanks!

Frost Presence nor VoTW do not apply to the 275hp enchant since it's not Stamina, just hit points.
Bumbuckle has it laid out perfect.

Wilhem
12-02-2009, 09:57 AM
Frost Presence nor VoTW do not apply to the 275hp enchant since it's not Stamina, just hit points.
Bumbuckle has it laid out perfect.

Ok. :) Thank you both, and thanks for the math, Bumbuckle.

Theotherone
12-02-2009, 01:12 PM
I don't know that getting around 155 hp is "massively better". To me "massively" would be some significant additional health. Heck, a food buff is worth 400 HP.

In fairness neither chest enchant is great, but it's they're all we have. Either one is just as "meh".

Bumbuckle
12-02-2009, 05:12 PM
That's right that small difference may make no difference or it could mean the world.

Imagine dying on say the last attempt of a hardmode, checking your combat log/death report and seeing a ~140 overkill and you have +10 stats on your chest.

Put your mind at ease. So you can blame the healers without self-guilt.

Wilhem
12-02-2009, 11:35 PM
That's right that small difference may make no difference or it could mean the world.

Imagine dying on say the last attempt of a hardmode, checking your combat log/death report and seeing a ~140 overkill and you have +10 stats on your chest.

Put your mind at ease. So you can blame the healers without self-guilt.

On the other side of the coin, what if you dodged that last attack because of the +10 agility? ... Of course, you never notice avoidance until it fails.

Just playing devils advocate. =D

Valquirie
12-02-2009, 11:51 PM
Because Avoidance is RNG, it is less reliable. Also, the +10 Stats gives 0.1% Dodge and 0.05% Parry, before Diminishing Returns; most tanks have way too much avoidance already (ref: Chill of the Throne (http://ptr.wowhead.com/?spell=69127)).

Bumbuckle
12-03-2009, 04:57 PM
My current gear with +10 stats gives 0.13 Avoidance. Obviously there is a chance that this might save that last hit. I would never bet on those odds though.