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View Full Version : Crit while having 545 in defense skill?!?



Grubsnik
11-27-2009, 02:28 PM
http://www.tankspot.com/forums/../photoplog/images/52474/small/1_WoWScrnShot_112709_231350.jpg (http://www.tankspot.com/forums/../photoplog/images/52474/1_WoWScrnShot_112709_231350.jpg)

Screenshot tells is all really, i saw it pop op on my screen and couldn't really believe it. After the instance was over, i went back and checked. And there it is, me getting crit, even though i should have 10 defense skill more than is needed.

Is there any rational explanation for this?

Khue
11-27-2009, 02:32 PM
A combat log would be helpful. Maybe you had a piece of broken gear prior to the fight? If you are using outfitter and you try to change gear while in combat, the gear won't change out until combat drops. This has happened to me before when I tried to equip a defense set.

Optimoos
11-27-2009, 02:32 PM
Is the crit actually in the combat log? Did Recount screw up?

How long after the crit occurred did you take the screenshot? Did you repair before taking the screenshot? Did you swap any gear?

MellvarTank
11-27-2009, 02:34 PM
You have 545 defense with DPS shoulders on?

Khue
11-27-2009, 02:37 PM
I think those are a quest reward from Shalozar basin that have the same graphic as the dps set you are thinking about.

Satrina
11-27-2009, 02:39 PM
Let me google that for you (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=eadric+the+pure+crit+me)

Optimoos
11-27-2009, 02:43 PM
Hah, that's what I get for not playing WoW these days... I totally went to wowwiki to see if he did a debuff reducing defense or buff increasing crit, guess I missed it. Oh well, there's your answer:

http://www.wowwiki.com/Eadric_the_Pure_(tactics)

See Vengeance.

Insahnity
11-27-2009, 02:57 PM
You have 545 defense with DPS shoulders on?

No, those are probably TOC Shoulders

Insahnity
11-27-2009, 03:03 PM
Hah, that's what I get for not playing WoW these days... I totally went to wowwiki to see if he did a debuff reducing defense or buff increasing crit, guess I missed it. Oh well, there's your answer:

http://www.wowwiki.com/Eadric_the_Pure_(tactics (http://www.wowwiki.com/Eadric_the_Pure_%28tactics))

See Vengeance.

Also, see articles here on tankspot about crit immunity and 540 defense. You might be surprised on what you find.

Strictly speaking, resilience directly contributes to prevention of crits (but it takes an unreasonable amounts of resilience to obtain 100% immunity from crits). But what crit immunity by defense and resilience at reasonable levels do is to push crits off the boss hit table. If the mob has a mechanism to crit, only 100% resilience will save you (which is not really achievable for the purposes of this discussion)

Kuraf
11-27-2009, 03:06 PM
Hah, that's what I get for not playing WoW these days... I totally went to wowwiki to see if he did a debuff reducing defense or buff increasing crit, guess I missed it. Oh well, there's your answer:

http://www.wowwiki.com/Eadric_the_Pure_(tactics (http://www.wowwiki.com/Eadric_the_Pure_%28tactics))

See Vengeance.

Yep... what he said. He has a skill (uses it on himself) that makes him crit. Was pretty shocked and went thro the combatlog myself when I noticed it the first time :S

Aggathon
11-27-2009, 08:42 PM
Also, see articles here on tankspot about crit immunity and 540 defense. You might be surprised on what you find.

Strictly speaking, resilience directly contributes to prevention of crits (but it takes an unreasonable amounts of resilience to obtain 100% immunity from crits). But what crit immunity by defense and resilience at reasonable levels do is to push crits off the boss hit table. If the mob has a mechanism to crit, only 100% resilience will save you (which is not really achievable for the purposes of this discussion)

I'm gonna be honest... I read this first thinking that you thought that 540 defense guarenteed you to be crit immune from bosses (which in almost every case is true) however after re-reading the second paragraph (and running out of breadcrumbs) I have no idea what you are talking about.

Here is what my response was going to be based off of the first assumption:

Here's the thing, it is crit immunity because bosses have a flat rate chance of 5% to crit you, so if you reduce the chance a boss has to crit you by 5%, you are technically "crit immune" however, if his crit chance goes up (aka: chance to cause next attack to be a crit!) then the boss all of the sudden has 100% chance to crit on his next hit (so 100% - dodge/block/miss/parry/noncrit) which means he will have a chance to crit and you get crit, even with over 545 defense.

Also: you cannot get 100% crit immune from resilience, it caps out iirc, however the cap is more than it is possible to stack resil for I believe, but it's been a long time since I've looked at the numbers since the last time it was possible was in TBC and as a warrior in PvP I really don't worry about resil that much these days.

It also actually takes a very small amount of resilience to get 5% crit reduction, I think it is less than 300.

Oh and another note, only 100% resil chance to not crit will save you is innacurate. Any attack that is blocked cannot be a crit, therefore an unhittable set can push crits off the table even if the boss has a 100% chance.

Grubsnik
11-28-2009, 01:36 AM
Ahh, didn't see he had an ability to make him crit. Was simply so shocked that he could, in the first place.

That clears it up, no longer worried that my character or brain is bugged or anything.

Valalvax
11-28-2009, 10:27 AM
The trash mobs also have a ability called Unbalanced Strike which lowers your defense by 100, another mob that I can think of off the top of my head are the elementals in H HoL that increase their crit chance by like 50%

Valalvax
11-28-2009, 10:30 AM
No, those are probably TOC Shoulders

*grumbles about every piece looking the same, I can't tell what set I'm wearing because all the icons are the freaking same

Rominoodle
11-30-2009, 08:12 AM
No, those are probably TOC Shoulders

Hmm...I think they are ToC shoulders, but you have the wrong ones.

Majestic Silversmith Shoulderplates - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47502) are the DPS shoulders from htoc, both of them off the 2nd boss I believe. The DPS ones are purple, and the tanking ones are gold/brown (at least on alliance)

Insahnity
11-30-2009, 04:22 PM
Hmm...I think they are ToC shoulders, but you have the wrong ones.

Majestic Silversmith Shoulderplates - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47502) are the DPS shoulders from htoc, both of them off the 2nd boss I believe. The DPS ones are purple, and the tanking ones are gold/brown (at least on alliance)

Good catch. Wowhead clearly shows brown on both alliance and horde, while his char tab shows the purple-blue shoulders.

*sigh* Get the durned tank gear on, OP!

Insahnity
11-30-2009, 04:35 PM
I'm gonna be honest... I read this first thinking that you thought that 540 defense guarenteed you to be crit immune from bosses (which in almost every case is true) however after re-reading the second paragraph (and running out of breadcrumbs) I have no idea what you are talking about.

Here is what my response was going to be based off of the first assumption:

Here's the thing, it is crit immunity because bosses have a flat rate chance of 5% to crit you, so if you reduce the chance a boss has to crit you by 5%, you are technically "crit immune" however, if his crit chance goes up (aka: chance to cause next attack to be a crit!) then the boss all of the sudden has 100% chance to crit on his next hit (so 100% - dodge/block/miss/parry/noncrit) which means he will have a chance to crit and you get crit, even with over 545 defense.

Also: you cannot get 100% crit immune from resilience, it caps out iirc, however the cap is more than it is possible to stack resil for I believe, but it's been a long time since I've looked at the numbers since the last time it was possible was in TBC and as a warrior in PvP I really don't worry about resil that much these days.

It also actually takes a very small amount of resilience to get 5% crit reduction, I think it is less than 300.

Oh and another note, only 100% resil chance to not crit will save you is innacurate. Any attack that is blocked cannot be a crit, therefore an unhittable set can push crits off the table even if the boss has a 100% chance.

Aggathon, check out this (slightly dated, but still useful) Attack Table Explanation. Look especially at example 1. It's a graphical example of what you explained, but for others to follow along.

When he raises crit chance by 100%, it's similar to warrior's block chance by 100%, there are other thing in the attack table that take precedence to crits/blocks/etc. However, it does still raise the crit from zero to a non-trivial amount. I believe you do understand this, your explanation covers this.

As for resilience being capped, I wouldn't doubt this, but again, getting that much resilience in pve is just dumb anyways, even for a gimmick fight. You still lose the other aspects like miss/dodge/parry/block/etc. which defense gives.

I think your unhittable set explanation is also correct.

uglybbtoo
12-01-2009, 01:10 AM
It's been discussed before but the hint for the spell appears to be wrong.

With the buff active he seems to crit you 100% of the time as opposed to increased his chance 100%.

I tried with 571 defense and 110'ish resilence (Res chant on chest + pvp chant on shoulders + resilence trinket) and still got crit everytime.

Karekka
12-01-2009, 02:13 AM
*sigh* Get the durned tank gear on, OP!

Wapach's Spaulders of Solidarity - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=44312) They look exactly the same as the dps shoulders from ToC5, so I can only assume that's what he'd be using ;)

Valalvax
12-01-2009, 04:03 AM
It's been discussed before but the hint for the spell appears to be wrong.

With the buff active he seems to crit you 100% of the time as opposed to increased his chance 100%.

I tried with 571 defense and 110'ish resilence (Res chant on chest + pvp chant on shoulders + resilence trinket) and still got crit everytime.


Assuming it's 100% increased chance to hit, your 571 defense skill is 6.83% less chance to crit, which is just 1.23% chance less from crit cap 5.40%, plus your resil crit reduction which is 1.17 = a 2.4% less to crit

5.40-5.40+100.00-1.17-1.23=97.6


Also, for PvE/tanking, Resilience should only be used WITH defense to become crit capped, not be used INSTEAD of it

He had a 97.6% chance to crit

Rominoodle
12-01-2009, 06:37 AM
Wapach's Spaulders of Solidarity - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=44312) They look exactly the same as the dps shoulders from ToC5, so I can only assume that's what he'd be using ;)

Well...then there's that! Dunno why they had to make so many sets of gear look the same...totally makes for hazzardous discussion on the forums! :o

Leo99
12-01-2009, 06:54 AM
http://www.tankspot.com/forums/../photoplog/images/52474/small/1_WoWScrnShot_112709_231350.jpg (http://www.tankspot.com/forums/../photoplog/images/52474/1_WoWScrnShot_112709_231350.jpg)

Screenshot tells is all really, i saw it pop op on my screen and couldn't really believe it. After the instance was over, i went back and checked. And there it is, me getting crit, even though i should have 10 defense skill more than is needed.

Is there any rational explanation for this?

You aint the only about getting crit, I have 561 def and I been crit also but when I show it to my guild they say i am lying and stuff, there isnt a real explaination about thing but it is proof that warriors are still broken and that is an issue blizz needs to fix.

uglybbtoo
12-01-2009, 06:47 PM
Assuming it's 100% increased chance to hit, your 571 defense skill is 6.83% less chance to crit, which is just 1.23% chance less from crit cap 5.40%, plus your resil crit reduction which is 1.17 = a 2.4% less to crit

5.40-5.40+100.00-1.17-1.23=97.6


Also, for PvE/tanking, Resilience should only be used WITH defense to become crit capped, not be used INSTEAD of it

He had a 97.6% chance to crit


It was an test exercise NOT what I usually tank in :=)

The detail on the spell hint is somewhat unclear what was meant .. we were really playing around with crap for unbalanced off Thor in ulduar but normal TOC we knew with Eadric was a good place to get crit.

AND Leo99

/QUOTE
"You aint the only about getting crit, I have 561 def and I been crit also but when I show it to my guild they say i am lying and stuff, there isnt a real explaination about thing but it is proof that warriors are still broken and that is an issue blizz needs to fix."
/UNQUOTE

That is rubbish all tanks get crit from his special and warriors are not broken learn to tank ^.^

Toushiro
12-03-2009, 04:04 PM
You have 545 defense with DPS shoulders on?

my tank gear that lacks just shoulders I got 548 def

Valalvax
12-07-2009, 12:51 AM
It was an test exercise NOT what I usually tank in :=)

The detail on the spell hint is somewhat unclear what was meant .. we were really playing around with crap for unbalanced off Thor in ulduar but normal TOC we knew with Eadric was a good place to get crit.

Hehe, just makin sure there, unbalanced I think you could theoretically stack resil/defense and lower the chance you could get hit, being as it lowers your defense by x amount, but an extra 100% chance to crit means just that, I suppose it does cap out at 100% though, but if you add 100% to 5.6 then -5.6 from 450 defense does it still equal 100 or 94.4, and then minus whatever EXTRA defense/resil you have..

All in all however, I can take a hit from this pansy ^_^, Thorim on the other hand, never even done him, but the trash mobs (the monks I think) do a Unbalancing Strike as well, it's probably be better to test on them guys, pull a pack, kill everything but the monk, pull another pack, kill, pull another kill, then just test that way