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Kuraf
11-27-2009, 02:56 AM
Greetings,

I have been tanking ToC10 and ToC25 in normal difficulty and pretty much older content on 10men grps.

Yesterday I finally got the tokens to get Glyph of Indomitability - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47735) but i'm having doubts if I should actually keep it. The passive bonus is good but i'm facing here a 1k HP loss (but winning a lot of armor and a nice on-use effect) by replacing the old Essence of Gossamer - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37220) . My HP pool ain't that good yet since i'm sitting at 37k (with glyph) or 38k (without glyph).

So the main question is... should I take it?

Another question is if i'm geared enough to tank ToGC10 now... any suggestions?

Armory link: The World of Warcraft Armory (http://armory.wow-europe.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Xavius&cn=Fierceblow)

Bluepepper
11-27-2009, 04:07 AM
Hi, Kuraf
A short answer is you'll want to go with Glyph of Indomitability instead of the Essence of Gossamer because your Effective health will be higher with the Glyph of Indomitability. Not to mention you'll also get another cooldown that you can control when to use. If you're interested in the math scroll down = )



MATH STUFF

If you want to answer the question on whether to stack armor (Glyph of Indomitability), or stamina (Essence of Gossamer) the formula for effective health will give you solid council. It's based primarily off of three factors: Stamina, Armor, and NPC level. Aside from these factors there's two formulas: one for NPCs level 60 and above (which is what we'll be concerned with), and another formula for NPCs levels 1-59. They're both essentially the same formula, but with different constants.

Conveniently, Tankingtips.com has an effective health calculator on their site where you can just input the asked values and out comes the Effective Health calculation Effective Health Calculator: How much damage can I can take? - TankingTips.com (http://www.tankingtips.com/effective-health-calculator) Alot of the work is done for us = ). Here are the values I used:

Values of Glyph of Indominability and Black Heart (not taking into effect the procs) we'll call this combination of trinkets GIBH:
Health: 36,902
Armor: 27,141
NPC level: 83
Effective Health: 97,110


Values of Essence of Gossamer and Black Heart (not taking into effect the procs) we'll call this combination of Trinkets EGBH:
Health: ~38,002
Armor: 25,349
NPC level: 83
Effective Health: 95,911


Comparison of Effective Health Values

GIBH vs. EGBH
97,110 -- 95,911


Conclusion

The Combination of the Glyph of Indominability and Black Heart without taking procs into consideration has a higher static effective health value (around 1,199 more EH) than the trinket combination of Essence of Gossamer and the Black Heart. The higher the effective health value means the higher your effective health will be.

A high amount of stamina DOES NOT necessarily mean you have a high amount of Effective Health. I.e., you may have less stamina than some other thanks, but you can take more damage than they can because you have a higher effective health pool.

Kuraf
11-27-2009, 04:19 AM
Comparison of Effective Health Values

GIBH vs. EGBH
97,110 -- 95,911

A high amount of stamina DOES NOT necessarily mean you have a high amount of Effective Health. I.e., you may have less stamina than some other thanks, but you can take more damage than they can because you have a higher effective health pool.

First of all, thanks for the fast reply bluepepper. I've been always trying to balance armor&stam instead of insanely stacking stam (i've mained healer for a long time and I try to mitigate my own damage so the healers don't have to sweat too much healing me).

I did some crude math last night (it was pretty late tho) on the stamina/AC and it was showing me values that 1hp = 5 armor (or something like that) which made me question this.
Another thing that seems out of your equation is the scalability of stamina vs armor (which also makes me wonder). Since i had to swap rings the old one hasn't got an epic gem (so my STA will be buffed up by 6).

And regarding the ToGC10? Any feedback?

drae
11-27-2009, 07:20 AM
I'd say you can do ToGC 10m.

I second the choice of the Glyph. I love it; like you I was really unsure how good it was till I tried it out. Now I'm quite glad I picked it up.

I know you didn't ask for other advice, but a few things I noticed while looking at your armory profile...

1. Your legs.... I'd prioritize replacing them, but save em. You'll need them for Anub 25m heroic... but for normal tanking they are terrible! They have a nice Ilvl but that's about all. Block is a terrible end-game tanking stat.

2. I would avoid socketing parry. 95% of the time dodge is better, imho so is expertise. I would just stack stamina gems (with the exception of one purple gem to activate meta, preferably in a slot that will reward some stam socket bonus). Socket bonus' are generally not worth it, unless it's +12 stam and contains like blue and red.

Other then that looking good! Of course Juggernauts and a new ring will help you a lot!

Kuraf
11-27-2009, 07:49 AM
I'd say you can do ToGC 10m.

I second the choice of the Glyph. I love it; like you I was really unsure how good it was till I tried it out. Now I'm quite glad I picked it up.

I know you didn't ask for other advice, but a few things I noticed while looking at your armory profile...

1. Your legs.... I'd prioritize replacing them, but save em. You'll need them for Anub 25m heroic... but for normal tanking they are terrible! They have a nice Ilvl but that's about all. Block is a terrible end-game tanking stat.

2. I would avoid socketing parry. 95% of the time dodge is better, imho so is expertise. I would just stack stamina gems (with the exception of one purple gem to activate meta, preferably in a slot that will reward some stam socket bonus). Socket bonus' are generally not worth it, unless it's +12 stam and contains like blue and red.

Other then that looking good! Of course Juggernauts and a new ring will help you a lot!

Thanks for the feedback. I'm always open to suggestions on how to improve.

Regarding your 2 points:

1. I know iLvl isn't all that matters and i'm also aware that the legs will be needed for tanking anub hc (block set *gasp* still missing a lot of stats). Regarding the bonuses, i've always thought that bonus of 9 (or more) stam should be taken (if they don't mess you up too much going for it... pretty much only for situations like the one you mentioned - red&blue socket).

2. I've socketed parry cause my crappy math showed that my parry/dodge ratio was messed up (higher gains on parry than dodge). Once again the math was done at late night and it may have failed... i should make spreadsheets for easier math x_x

Anyway, about the upgrades i've been trying to get a new shield/belt for quite some time but with no luck (those were my main focus). About the ring... I also have a Leviathan Coil @ bag but i'm not wearing it since I wanna keep my expertise a bit higher.
I've also been trying to get a belt upgrade (kinda broke to pay for the indestructible girdle atm).
Thanks for the tip tho. I'll try to look for better legs :)

Kuraf
11-30-2009, 07:16 AM
Shameless bump in search of an answer regarding the ToGC10 part (do I seem able to tank it?).

Regarding the Glyph, it's been working pretty nicely so far (even tho I still swap it with essence of gossamer once in a while).

dirt
11-30-2009, 08:38 AM
Shameless bump in search of an answer regarding the ToGC10 part (do I seem able to tank it?).


I think the general rule of thumb around here is if you are asking this question(being that you've done reg 10 man) then the answer is yes.

You have a few pieces of gear I'd certainly look to upgrade, shield, legs & belt. But on the whole your spec and gear is pretty solid. In my experience transitioning from reg-> heroic, it was a real eye opener in just how much harder Gormok hit. Not only for the tanks, but the healers. Before we got the fight down in 10man, our healers really had a difficult time keeping up with the damage. Of course, you have to factor in the snobold's and fire damage being spread around. And if your tank healer(s) gets one on them, that can be a insta-wipe.

There's tons of knowledge here on strategies and what have you, but synergy between the tanks is important. I've done it with a DK tank and also Pallies. It certainly helps if you have a pally that can help HoP, but is not mandatory to success by any means. We do it with each tank taking 2 impales, again that may depend on the type of tanks and gearing levels. Your healers need to be on the ball and tanks need to make sure they taunt in time and not get to many stacks.

NRB's is a dps race, there's alot you need to keep your eyes on. It will take some practice.

Good luck.

Brawndo
12-03-2009, 03:49 AM
Shameless bump in search of an answer regarding the ToGC10 part (do I seem able to tank it?).

Regarding the Glyph, it's been working pretty nicely so far (even tho I still swap it with essence of gossamer once in a while).

You will really start to look at your gear after a few attempts at ToGC. Gormok hit's like a BEAST (no pun intended). You have a good health pool, Avoidance is a bit on the low side. You could def use a new weapon/shield (took me about 8 weeks to get the damn coffin lid). A few key upgrades that were pointed out above. You could probably get through it, but it's gonna take some solid healers, however, it'll take that with any tank. I really hate that for Beasts, it's pretty much mandatory to run with at least one holy pally.