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View Full Version : What can i tank am a bit confused because of PUGS



Porter
11-26-2009, 08:11 AM
Hi,

Am a bit confused because of PUG's and what they say i can tank at present. My gear link is WoW Heroes - World of Warcraft PvE character info & ratings (http://www.wow-heroes.com/index.php?zone=eu&server=Kul%20Tiras&name=protectnserv)

I have just got Conq chest today and have 245 bracers being made along with a new epic ring which just leaves replacement of shoulders and cape. I am leveling BS and JC over the next 2 weeks(for the 3 epic stam slot GEMS and extra slots on bracers and hands).

When i look for a PUG to naxx10 or maly10 or Ony10 i get the same thing, you dont have enough gear. How can i get enough gear if i cant get in the runs to gear up? I dont want to get a dps set just so that i can get into raids as a dps and /roll on tank gear as thats a no-no - and tanking is what i enjoy and what i am geared for.

very frustrating. So sorry back to my question - do i have enough gear for naxx10 or ony10 or maly10?

Xianth
11-26-2009, 09:00 AM
You could manage them all to be honest, but you would struggle on ony though, so i'd be unsuprised if people didn't want to bring you (you risk dying to a melee + breath/cleave combo). A few upgrades could sort that out though so it's not a big problem.

However, you more than enough gear naxx10 and maly10. I think I did naxx 10 with like 24k unbuffed hp. any pug who says your gear isn't good enough for naxx 10 is quite frankly, retarded.

Okto
11-26-2009, 09:05 AM
Well, not having things, even blues enchanted can turn people off. Like atleast get a wep. chain on your sword, and replace the parry gem with a expertise/stam gem. But, besides that, stat wise, your gear is fine. As was already said, ony might give you some issues, but tbh I was tanking naxx 25 with 28k health and a little avoid. than you have. But ya, you should be fine.

Oposumus
11-26-2009, 09:10 AM
I would say for 10 man runs you good enough geared, as long as you watched TankSpot
movies on boss encounters you'll be fine.

AxLxExX
11-26-2009, 09:18 AM
naxx10 os10/25

Wilhem
11-26-2009, 09:22 AM
People want overgeared tanks so they can breeze through raids now... Your best bet, other than getting into a group, would be to go as DPS if you have DPS gear - People will carry through an undergeared DPS - And roll on tank gear.

Eravian
11-26-2009, 09:30 AM
I had 22k unbuffed health when I first went in to off-tank Naxx 25. Like JokerFMJ said, a lot of people aren't looking to help out others on pug runs, they're doing it for their own benefit, which is understandable. Thus, they don't want a run that's going to take forever, wipe alot, etc. I would say your best bet is to find a guild thats running the content you're looking to do, and hop on in!

Norik
11-26-2009, 09:46 AM
People want overgeared tanks so they can breeze through raids now... Your best bet, other than getting into a group, would be to go as DPS if you have DPS gear - People will carry through an undergeared DPS - And roll on tank gear.
Sadly this statement is very true.

Zyffyr
11-26-2009, 02:41 PM
If I were still running them, I wouldn't have a problem bring you as a tank to any of the pre-Uld raids (other than a multi-drake Sarth).

Hammerfists
11-26-2009, 10:55 PM
Just to reiterate pugs want over geared tanks because there is a stigma that you have crap gear because you don't know your class well and the well geared has been playing more so must now his class better and/or fight better than you. Also its a pug no one wants to work hard, just go in pew pew and get loot. You should get your guild or a guild thats running content around your gear level and get loot that way to get up towards current content, they'll be a lot more supportive of your gear needs than a random pug.

Don't forget to run daily heroics and Vault you should have some tier 9 by now its not that hard to get.

Fledern
11-26-2009, 11:29 PM
Well, even though i agree with the generalized comments made here (that pugs want overgeared people and your hp is fine for raids), looking at that gear link quickly put me off for taking you as a tank.

a) You're not defense capped. You're not going into any raid without being at least defense capped.
b) There are way better items in quick reach (like the AH) for some of the gear slots. Showing up to a raid with green items is a no-no
c) Your avoidance & armor levels are at a point where healers will be cursing you a lot. True, i stepped into my first raid with a lot less hp than you but i had avoidance and way more armor to make up for it.

You, my friend, need some more quality heroics time. Both for the badges it offers and to upgrade the crap pieces of gear you have. Concentrate on your chest, bracers, ring & shoulders, there are perfectly fine and way better alternatives (even blue ones) from heroics. Visit your AH, there should be some BoE epic raid drops going about too.

Xianth
11-27-2009, 03:57 AM
People want overgeared tanks so they can breeze through raids now... Your best bet, other than getting into a group, would be to go as DPS if you have DPS gear - People will carry through an undergeared DPS - And roll on tank gear.


yeh but even then, 30k unbuffed totally outgears naxx 10 and maly 10.

Xianth
11-27-2009, 04:10 AM
Well, even though i agree with the generalized comments made here (that pugs want overgeared people and your hp is fine for raids), looking at that gear link quickly put me off for taking you as a tank.

I dunno if you were looking at the wrong link but:



a) You're not defense capped. You're not going into any raid without being at least defense capped.


he has 545 defense



b) There are way better items in quick reach (like the AH) for some of the gear slots. Showing up to a raid with green items is a no-no


He doesn't have any greens, he has a lot of crafted BoEs already which shows effort. the only blue slots are cloak, trinket and shoulders. The only significant AH upgrade would be the BoE cloak from sarth 10 but that's a big question as to it turning up on the AH. Pretty much everything is enchanted even the crap items.



c) Your avoidance & armor levels are at a point where healers will be cursing you a lot. True, i stepped into my first raid with a lot less hp than you but i had avoidance and way more armor to make up for it.


Again, his armor levels don't differ much at the level of naxx10 and maly, you come out of those with about 24000 anyway, and about 24 dodge and 19 parry pre nerf, so avoidance levels aren't startlingly low. Sure, it will go up a lot with triumph badge gear/toc gear but he's not too far from being able to go there and get further upgrades. Far more than sufficient to do naxx10 and maly 10 though, so the point still stands that he there's no way he should be turned away as undergeared.

The main thing I'd really say he needs to sort as a priority are his professions, as he's missing out on an easy 120 Stamina.

jere
11-27-2009, 06:45 AM
I'll just reiterate what others have said. You are pretty much ok for Naxx and OS 10/25. You need to replace your shoulders/cloak (get badge items if you need...there's a valor cloak and one of the badge types provides shoulders).

You need to get your professions such that: Mining is maxed and BS can get you the bracer/glove sockets

Enchant your weapon.

Run heroics until you are blue in the face with badges or grind out money. There are upgrades you can get either through badges, crafting, or both.

CatabriOnEarthen
11-27-2009, 09:16 AM
a) You're not defense capped. You're not going into any raid without being at least defense capped.
b) There are way better items in quick reach (like the AH) for some of the gear slots. Showing up to a raid with green items is a no-no
c) Your avoidance & armor levels are at a point where healers will be cursing you a lot. True, i stepped into my first raid with a lot less hp than you but i had avoidance and way more armor to make up for it.


His defense is 545, He has no greens. He does need to change out his +16 parry gem, what too, I have no idea, warriors aren't my forte.

Enchant the sword with Accuracy (IMO) as your hit rating is low.

Get your BS up so you can socket the hands and wrists w/ bright shiny stam gems!

nethervoid
11-27-2009, 03:06 PM
I would be a bit wary of you tanking Ony or ToC in a pug. Sure you could probably do it, but as far as pugs go, you get like 2 wipes and you're then trying to refill slots as people leave so that's the problem pug leads have.

You could easily do all the way to Uld 10. You could probably do Ony/ToC 10 with a couple to few wipes.

- Put a +dodge/+stam gem in your boots instead of the parry. Regal Dreadstone
- 30 triumph badges will get you T9 shoulders - Easy as pie
- Get the badge cloak

After that I'd say get the badge T8 helm, as you'll probably want to get the 30 triumph badge T9 gloves for the bonus. The shoulders, legs, and chest are all 50 badges, which is something you don't really want to think about IMO until you're clearing ToC weekly (15 triumph per run).

You should be able to pug ToC 10m at 34.5k without too much flak from complainers.

Porter
11-30-2009, 12:02 AM
Hi,

Thanks for the advice, have been changing my gear and not telling PUGs that i have not done things and since doing this have been to naxx10,Uldar and ony10 and done them successfully. Problem is am not getting any gear from them..lol I just got to replace my shoulders now for the valorous badge item and then wait for the gear to drop.Will move to 25mans shortly once have fully done all content on 10man.

Appreciate the advise. I was going to take blade warding as my main enchant as per tankspot testing until i saw its 500g in AH. So will stick with the bonus from mongoose until my MH is better.

You guys were totally right about the pugs wanting an easy ride. Ony10 was really easy as was naxx. Raid buffed i am now at 43,000hp so i just got to work on my Hp now and upping my avoidance. Thanks.

Porter
11-30-2009, 01:32 AM
Is it possible for some advice about my current gearing? Excluding the shoulders which i will replace along with the trinket shortly.

WoW Heroes - World of Warcraft PvE character info & ratings (http://www.wow-heroes.com/index.php?zone=eu&server=Kul%20Tiras&name=protectnserv)

I have managed to get gear rated to 2226 so far.

As stated I got the parry red gem to keep the Metagem bonus. I guess i need to get another one but cant decide which is the best one to get to keep the meta bonus?

Mačl
11-30-2009, 03:21 AM
Ony 10 might be a bit of a challenge. It really depends on how alert your healers are. How quick you are popping your cooldowns. If you barely survive phase 1 you will be a goner in phase 3.

But especially Ony 10 could be doable if you have experienced healers at hand. That's nothing I'd expect in a PUG. I know that I for one are more than happy to heal tanks that are just geared for the raid. I've been bored to tears in ToC10/25 this weekend. Nearly everything got disenchanted so my groups obviously outgeared the content.

ekna
11-30-2009, 04:02 AM
I would like to make one more remark, we are running TOC 10 man on a regular basis now with alts (mains clear the hardmode so bored with the normal ones, everything gets de'd any way).

When we started it, my war tank (not the char displayed here) was with three blue items, i was defense capped with about 32k health, 22% dodge and parry while my shieldblock was at 18% and we got through it, agreed we whiped on anub a couple of times but it was still possible.. the thing indeed you need for good runs is to have one good healer and a main tank that has decent gear, not super gear. Another thing to have is to run TOC 5 man continues, the gear you get from there is about TOC 10 man ready. Run the normal until your face is blue and run heroic every day. Badges and a lot bettter gear then you get from other heroics.

The week after i wanted to join a pug as we didn't run it with guild, i got the same thing back: (coppied from my conversation log)
Me:
Can i join (plus linked the achievement because it was asked for)
He:
Meet me at eventide for gear check.
*walked up to the guy*
He:
How can you have the achievement? that is not possible?
Me:
Ran it with guild last week without a problem as off tank and you're looking for an offtank.
He:
you need atleast 37K health unbuffed to even get in there !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Me:
I have 33k but with a lot of avoidance.
He:
Sorry but i found some one else

the end of the storry, 5 seconds later in Trade:
LF1M tank to join to TOC10, don't bother whispering me if you have less then 35K health.

Conclusion: if you can run with guild. Pugs forget them because like most say, the leaders want a walk in the park and gear up friends or themselves. Most people that start a pug are undergeared themselfs hoping for the gear to drop so they can roll on it and get it, they always make sure that the classes that they are rolling against have a lot better then they have.

Soinse4
11-30-2009, 04:10 AM
It's true, tanks have it harder. But hey, there is a solution.

Make a healer friend or just do your best to start your own heroic groups. Farm everything you possibly can and buy all the badge upgrades you can. Buy tradeskill epics.

Yes, it requires more work and gold, but that's the way it is. Even after going through this on more than one tank and understanding completely how much harder it is for them, I still have the same attitude when I'm on my healer. I do not want to heal a tank that is not geared as possible for the content. Can a 24k hp tank in blues tank heroics? Yes they can. I did it 9 months ago or so. Do I want to heal a 24k hp tank in blues? Not now. I sure don't. I won't.

So if someone like me that actually has tanks still has that attitude when I'm on my healer, just imagine the rest of the heals and dps that never played a tank.

Porter
12-07-2009, 03:42 AM
I have gradually got better gear and Hp is up alot more(44k raid buffed)but its still a catch 22 situation. Now it seems people use Gearscore addon which states literally what you can raid. In there it says for me at 4204 that i can run everything in my current gear up to Toc10.

So i see in LFG - Link achievements or gear score. If i have the achievement nobody worries - even though i could go as dps and get it and then say i tanked it? So who would know? The its gearscore - which could mean i went as dps in guild and got OS tank drops and not know how to tank and instance...See my point. Tanking or being good at your class has nothing to do with Achievements or GS. What they should ask in LFG is "LFtank to X," on getting the whisper ask what the tactic is for MT and OT. I guess in PUGs they just dont care.

its all changing in cataclysm anyways as the EHP is less important than avoidance. See blue below

"Tanking and Healing in Cataclysm
You missed the part where I said health pools will be higher. Imagine a boss that takes say 3-4 hits to kill a tank, but it also takes a healer 3-4 heals to top her back off. Now efficiency of a healing spell can be as much of a consideration as direct throughput, since the tank is unlikely to die in your next GCD. Now coordination among healers can be a bigger deal since efficiency will matter. Now maximum health on the tank classes will matter less because the question of how long you can survive without a heal landing is largely academic. Now avoidance on a tank can matter a little more because saving healer mana becomes as important as being table to take the next hit."

P.S i came to the conclusion i wont Pug Toc10 or Toc25 and just go with the guild to these places and then there is no hastle about either the Gearscore or achievement

Hammerfists
12-07-2009, 05:37 AM
Asking people how they would tank the raid is too tedious and opens you up for debate (there's more than one way to tank something and we don't all agree that it works even if it does). What pugs and pug leaders in general are looking for are easy to spot flags that show that you know something may it be in your gear score to show that you have raid knowledge or the achievement to say been there done that. No matter what happens to the game imo pugs will stay the same, people will find a stat, gear score, or achievement that can easily be checked to allow admission because hey at the end of the day why work harder than you have to for a group of people you don't know.

Kazeyonoma
12-07-2009, 10:47 AM
This probably belongs in the HALP! forum.

moved.

Hades
12-08-2009, 04:51 AM
Point blank.. pugging groups is horrible with such elitism running around as there is these days. Personally I'd rather use my tank gear to brute force a heroic for a new 80 healer than just breeze through, and I've posted frequently in trade "Tank LFG Heroics, new 80s only." lol! I usually get two, and the rest are hella geared. Works out pretty ok. I spec'd out of tank so I just DPS these days, but eh.. /shrug. Same principle applies.