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View Full Version : DK Tank in need of advise



Honakwar
11-26-2009, 02:00 AM
I have played a pally tank and did pretty well at it, but i got a little bored with that so i made a DK tank, i asked around on my server for some advise on a spec and what not so ill link you my armory page. my gear is decent, except a few ilvl 200 pieces im working on replacing but here is my armory.

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Frostwolf&n=Honakwar)

i am having some threat issues im not sure why, at times i can be at 6k tps and others im sitting really low at 3k maybe. The problem here is we have a few really geared caster dps that pull very high amounts of threat if i could sit at 6k tps for a majority of the fights i would be ok but thats not happening. I am blood and my rotation is

IT-PS-HS-HS-DS-RP dump....DS-HS-HS-HS-HS-RP dump

i also read somewhere that making macro's for all my abilities and having them linked to Rune Strike so that it is used every time its up was the best way to go so i also do this

on top of this it seems i am getting hit very hard compared to the other tanks in my guild such as our paladin and our druid tank not sure if this is just a fact and i have to deal with it or if those few pieces are holding me back this much. or if it is my spec, but i figured the guys here on tank spot could help me out so if anyone has some advise i would love to hear it

motoucle
11-26-2009, 03:22 AM
Hi there,

Your gear doesnt really look that bad but maybe you re getting hit harder than your fellow tanks due to the fact they outgear you? And also you say that you re being hit harder based on what? If it s the health bar humping up and down i wouldnt count on that.

Your spec has all the mitigation talents so i dont think that spec is the issue. One think that i would change is the IIT unless you always have someone applying the attack speed debuff.
The lack of professions really hurts your HP and you should max those asap.

As per gear, ditch the Ony trink and you could swap to the pvp shoulder enchant,,,

Ltseb
11-26-2009, 02:35 PM
Try changing your rotation, i use IT - PS - HS – HS - DS - RS/RP // DS - DS – HS – HS - RS/RP, used it from the moment i went blood spec, its pretty much the same as yours i just use an extra DS and dropped 2 HS in the second part of the rotation.

Blood spec is very gear dependant, while you do have pretty good gear it could still be a factor.

As Motoucle said, max out your Proffs asap, because mining gives you extra stam, and JC allows you to use dragon's eye gems, which are both very usefull

Look at WoW Professions | 1-450 WoW Profession Guides (http://www.wow-professions.com/) to help you level your proffs up quickly, cheap and easily.

And again like Motoucle said get rid of the Ony trinket, it sucks ass, other than that you should be good to go.

Harmacy
11-26-2009, 06:24 PM
the Onyxia trinket, as others have mentioned, is less than ideal for a DK tank - it's ok if you're struggling to reach 540, however since you're at 561 I'd say ditch it, parry rating is lackluster for a DK so you'd be better off with a stamina trinket (Brewfest trinks if available, otherwise go for the good ol' Essence of Gossamer)

the Ony polearms are lackluster for a DK as well, because they're so fast - however if you can't find anything comparable, it's not a big deal

The only other thing I see in your gear is that you don't have the emblem of triumph sigil - get that ASAP, a near-permanent 200 dodge is much better than what you have.

The main problem with your spec is that you're missing Improved Icy Touch - that 6% slow is quite a bit of damage prevention. I'd drop the two points from Virulence (Blood is not very dependant on spells anyways) and one from either Scent of Blood (two points should be enough to keep your RP bar full) or Sudden Doom (your death coil is pretty weak because you're not unholy) and put them into IIT.

Possible reasons for you getting hit harder than your paladin and druid tank:

- they may overgear you

- prot pallies are pretty overpowered

- bear tanks have more HP and armor than anyone else, to make up for their lack of avoidance

- DK tanks got nerfed pretty bad, and the lack of a block mechanic really hurts

- they both have the 20% attack speed debuff whereas you only have 14%

Honakwar
11-26-2009, 07:50 PM
I have been trying to switch the trinket out for a stam one just haven't seen one drop yet, i'm thinking i might drop mark of blood since we always have a paladin and judgement of light does the same thing ish but its up all the time and then the 2 points in Virulence and getting IIT and seeing if that helps my threat out a little also would help the amount of dmg i take...would it be better for me right now to go frost or should i be able to tank everything in blood i hear that blood is very gear dependant but at the same time i don't think my gear is lacking in anyway...as for the polearm i am trying to replace that as well i would really like to get the ony sword seeming as i am a big fan of expertise maybe thats not a good idea idk...

also for the getting hit harder is based on the fact that my healers are having a hard time keeping me up where as when we use the druid pally they can ease through it with little to no mana useage..i only have 2k less hp than the pally tank and yea their gear is a little better but its nothing that should be making this big of a difference i do see the fact that druids armor is higher so i see that point as pretty much an unchangable fact i will get hit harder than our druid tank...but the paladin??? yes he has block but when he is hit it doesnt seem like he takes as big of a chunk as i do his armor is only 2k more than mine as well so im not really sure whats up there

Honakwar
11-27-2009, 12:47 AM
thanks for all the help guys i changed my spec and wanna see how i do in raid now got the badge gloves as well so my gear is a tad better

Ltseb
11-27-2009, 05:02 AM
could you post a link to the pally at all?

Synapse
11-27-2009, 05:07 AM
2k armor and 2k hp is a really big deal, sir. Blocking also soaks the damage by another good 2k chunk. The gear difference there is rather large.

You do, however, have more cooldowns. As blood you should have lots of self healing.

Honakwar
11-27-2009, 05:20 AM
i see...now i feel like a noob haha oh well i guess thats what i was looking for here expanding my knowledge but yes here is armory link the the pally and the druid that seem to tank this with ease as compared to me but i think some of this advise will help

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Frostwolf&n=Hezpadia) <--paladin
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Frostwolf&n=Jangish) <--Druid

and again thank you all for posting and helping me out

Ltseb
11-27-2009, 11:16 AM
As Synapse said, a big part of being a blood tank is healing yourself, which you cant do very well because of your spec, if your having threat issuses then stay as you are, but if not change some of your spec around to include Improved Rune Tap, Mark Of The Blood and altho its not nessasy and ppl will prob tell you not to bother with it, try Improved Blood Pres, it increases your own healing done to urself by 4%, like i said its not nessasy but i think it helps, and drop a point off Scent Of Blood, you dont need 3 points on it, 2 points will be more than enough. I'd also suggest put a few points on Spell Deflection, its not nessasy but DKs can get hit hard by spells some times.

The Pally has much better gear than you over all, plus he has extra HP and Block makes a fair bit of difference, so thats prob why you get hit harder than him and as for the druid, he also has better gear than you, not by much but still better, i dont know much about druid tanks but i know they get a huge armor and stam increase when in bear form to compensate for there lack of block and dodge/parry, so think thats the reason why you get hit harder than him.

For now till you get closer to there gear i think you will just have to put up with it for now.

Harmacy
11-27-2009, 01:37 PM
change some of your spec around to include Improved Rune Tap, Mark Of The Blood and altho its not nessasy and ppl will prob tell you not to bother with it, try Improved Blood Pres, it increases your own healing done to urself by 4%

Improved Blood Presence adds what, 80 hps? And Rune Tap is an OK talent, but remember that there are people whose entire job is to heal you, and they can do a much better job than you can. Simply put, wasting 4 talent points on a very weak self-heal (that drains an important rune) is ill-advised. If you want Rune Tap for some reason, put the one point in it. That's it.

Mark of Blood is pretty good though, in some situations anyways.

Honakwar
11-27-2009, 02:02 PM
i had mark of blood before, and i tried to use it well but when i did it seemed to make very little difference so i figured dropping it and picking up something else that was more my play style was a better option for me anyways..i am having a little bit of a threat prob so i haven't got to try this new spec out yet in a raid once i do ill post on how it works and try to switch some things around as to what you all are saying...Again thank you all for the info and your time i really appreciate it

Horaxe
11-27-2009, 02:19 PM
Improved Blood Presence adds what, 80 hps? And Rune Tap is an OK talent, but remember that there are people whose entire job is to heal you, and they can do a much better job than you can. Simply put, wasting 4 talent points on a very weak self-heal (that drains an important rune) is ill-advised. If you want Rune Tap for some reason, put the one point in it. That's it.

Mark of Blood is pretty good though, in some situations anyways.

Harm, I know you're trying to help. But I think you're missing the point of the Blood Spec, and Rune Tap. First, in T9 Gear, it's about an 11K Heal, with a 30 second cooldown. It's not tied to Health Stones or Healing Potions (and you can use it repeatedly in a single fight, unlike pots and stones). And it's threat is comparable to Heart Strike, which is what you would likely be using that Blood Rune for in the first place... If you're still intent on having an uninterupted rotation for some oddball reason, you can always Blood Tap or use Empowered Rune Weapon.

RT is a tool, it softens the work load of the healers and builds threat. It's a win/win.

Recomended Reading for an aspiring Blood Tank
http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f14/54331-satorris-big-build-shop-blood-tanking.html

Ltseb
11-27-2009, 02:59 PM
Granted Improved Blood Pres only adds around 80-120 hps, i did say its not nassary, but it helps.

Improved Rune Tap has saved me god knows how many times when i get hit hard on some fights and the healers cant get there heals in time, it heals me for around 9k unbuffed, granted i've got glyph of rune tap but its not a weak self heal. The more HP you have the more HP you get healed, if you use Vampiric blood then Rune tap it heals you for about 13k-14kHP, which is good for them holy shit moments. it covers me for a good hit or two which gives the healers enough time to get there bigger heals in to get my HP right back up again, or when my healers silenced or out of range, it help keeps me covered till eva the silence runs out or the healer gets back in range. And you can always use blood tap to cover you for the rune you use.

In raids i have about 42k-45k HP, so when i use Rune Tap it heals me for about 14k-15k and when i use Vampiric Blood my heath goes up to about 55k then use Rune Tap i get healed for about 18k-20k HP, which if i do say so myself isn't that weak of a self heal.

And a big part of Blood tanking requires you to heal your self to be an effective tank.

Ltseb
11-27-2009, 03:05 PM
Also thank you Horaxe for clearing up more about Rune Tap and its use.

Ulosthegame
11-27-2009, 03:42 PM
While in Frost Presence or Unholy Presence, you retain 4% healing from Blood Presence, and healing done to you is increased by 10% in Blood Presence.

Having seen some people confused about this- IBP does NOT increase healing done to you( other than in blood presence)
The 4% self healing from hits- will probably never exceed 800 per heal on gimmick fights ( Valks/NRB)
this heal is not significant and a waste of two talent points.

Harmacy
11-27-2009, 04:00 PM
Harm, I know you're trying to help. But I think you're missing the point of the Blood Spec, and Rune Tap. First, in T9 Gear, it's about an 11K Heal, with a 30 second cooldown. It's not tied to Health Stones or Healing Potions (and you can use it repeatedly in a single fight, unlike pots and stones). And it's threat is comparable to Heart Strike, which is what you would likely be using that Blood Rune for in the first place... If you're still intent on having an uninterupted rotation for some oddball reason, you can always Blood Tap or use Empowered Rune Weapon.

You can argue that it's a useful tool, and I won't disagree. Self-healing is good but generating reliable threat is always better. Like I said, there are people whose entire job is to keep you healed, and they can do a much better job of it (they don't have to wait for runes to cooldown, or juggle it around Vampiric Blood, and so on and so forth).

And I call BS on it generating as much threat as Heart Strike. If healing generated that much threat, it would be damn near impossible for tanks to hold aggro.

As always I welcome the opportunity to be proven wrong.

Ltseb
11-27-2009, 05:17 PM
If all the healers did there job properly there would never be any wipes, its there to help, and even the best of healers need help.