View Full Version : Pally Tank: 25 TotGC hump

11-25-2009, 03:08 AM
OK first time posting on this site, I've done ok on my own up till now, but getting into 25 TotGC is killing me. Gormok just caves in my face on so many attempts. Even the worms and Ice seem to hit me a lot harder then i should be getting hit. any advice would be appreciated. I have a lot of other trinkets too, Eitrigg's Oath (http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/47882/eitriggs-oath/)(232), Heart of Iron (http://www.mmo-champion.com//i/news/2009/march/9722/loot_9722_291.jpg), Rune of Repulsion (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40372), Defender's Code (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40257). And i have Burnished Quel'Serrar (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=49495) 245, it just seemed like the proc wasn't up enough.

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Drak%27thul&n=G%C3%A1lad)
(keeps showing me in my Ret gear, even tho i logged in my prot gear. hope it changes over)

11-25-2009, 03:20 AM
There are no logs, so no one knows what is happening.
You are still in ret gear so your tanking gear is mistery.

Check if this is true:
1. Impaler is thunder clapped
2. Impaler is demo shouted
3. You have armor aura
4. You have armor totem
5. You have inspiration (or similar)
6. You have armor pots
7. Cooldowns are used on impales when his buff stacks to higher numbers

If all this is true, you (or your raid) are lacking gear, if something is not true, fix it and try again.

11-25-2009, 04:00 AM
1 & 2 i'm not sure on but we have 2-3 war's at least each raid
3, Aura's mine
4. i know we have enough shammy's for it to be down, almost sure it is.
5. have inspiration
6. i always have my pats, ftw
7. i try to save them, but sometimes i get smashed early. i have all 245 gear except neck and cloak, and sometimes trinket depending on which one i use. i'm about as good as i can get w/o TotGC.
Fully see what you mean about the raid gear lvl tho, didn't really think about that, assumed i was doing something wrong.
hope the Armory changes soon lol

11-25-2009, 04:05 AM
You are a paladin. You can provide 1&2.

11-25-2009, 06:06 AM
The Armory showed you in Ret stuff so I looked you up on a wow-heroes cache. Apologies therefore if what I say is a little out of date.

My first impression is your HP or, rather, your lack of it. For 25-man TotGC EH really is king for a lot of the more dangerous fights. I actually like avoidance a lot but, realistically, the unavoidable parts of TotGC (Impale being the first of which) are far too hard-hitting not not need to stack Stamina a little more than you currently are.

Your gems are generally a bit all over the place if I'm completely honest. I don't understand the +20 Strength in your helm unless this is a piece you specifically use for threat fights and wow-heroes has just caught you in your non-MT set. There's also the Strength/Defense gem in your gloves as another example. In your gear you really shouldn't be having any threat issues so don't bother to gem or enchant for it - as long as you're doing the 969 rotation you'll be fine.

You also have Parry gems which, at your levels of avoidance, is less per point than Dodge. The specific tipping point is when:

(char_sheet_dodge% - 10) / (char_sheet_parry% - 10) > 1.88

As a general rule of thumb, I ignore any non-Stamina socket bonus or any Stamina socket bonus of less than +9. Where the socket bonus is +9 or +12 Stam, I put Agi/Stam in red sockets and Def/Stam in yellow sockets.

Similarly to what I said above regarding the avoidance focus of your gear, you may wish to switch the Onyxia trinket for an EH one. The Glyph is fine (though for many it's less EH than a Stam one... not that +Armor doesn't have its benefits) but something like Juggernaut's Vitality, Heart of Iron or one of the Brewfest ones would be a good companion piece instead of the Blood Talisman.

Your spec is generally fine, though you may wish to consider dropping to 1/5 Conviction and picking up 2/2 Vindication - it now acts as an automatically-applied Improved Demo Shout, has near enough 100% uptime and is huge mitigation. Even if you have another Warrior putting Demo Shout up, taking this will save them a GCD so it still might be something to consider.

My guild is currently also working on Beasts-25 so I'm not some super pro expert, but I've stayed alive through 7 stacks of Impale before when the other tanks died so at least I speak from a point of view of knowing that my own deaths are not a core factor to why we've been wiping on it thus far, if that makes sense.

Anyway, good luck - your gear is good but I think it probably just has a slight avoidance bias that isn't best suited to the content you're tanking. A few tweaks and you'll probably find you "feel" like you're surviving better.

11-25-2009, 06:16 AM
Also make sure the healers know you're going to take damage. More than once I died because they forgot we tanks have to taunt him ever other hit.

11-27-2009, 05:27 PM
Damn, Armory sure took it's time changing me over to prot. The gems i had in were when i had threat issues, before i changed specs. it's been Stam for a while, not sure why wow-hero's still had my Str gems lol.

11-28-2009, 07:44 AM
First off, Northrend beasts is a hard tank gear check. You will be eating a lot of damage. Ignore all the QQ threads about how paladins can seemingly afk through this boss, it's all the usual retarded hyperbole.

Swap 2 points from Conviction into Vindication, for single target survivability Vindication is probably one of the best talents you can pick up (It even applies passively) and Demo shout tends to fall off for periods anyway (Warrior is busy / GCD locked). Thunder clap is covered by Judgements of the Just, and is fairly essential for reducing Gormok's tank burst.

A 2nd stamina trinket for Gormok would be good. You're a JC, make yourself a Figurine - Monarch Crab - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=44063) if neccesary and shove 2 epic stamina gems into it. Stamina and armour are the only things that will keep you alive through the impale hits, and stamina alone is the only thing keeping you alive through the DoT ticks.

When tanking the boss a few pointers:

When the fight starts and Tirion is saying "hailing from the caverns of the Storm Peaks, Gormok the Impaler! Battle on heroes!" about 1 second after he says "heroes" the zone goes into combat. I always chug an Indestructible Potion - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40093) just before we go into combat so that the potion cooldown starts ticking and I can chug another one mid-fight.

The first batch of impales require no tank CDs to live through (apart from maybe DKs, but they have 1 minute CDs for a reason), so don't waste Divine Protection on them. When Gormok starts getting near 3 to 4 stacks of his "enrage" buff the impale starts to get dangerous, generally you want to use Divine Protection 1-2 seconds before the impale cooldown is ready (DeadlyBossMods has a very accurate timer for it), this way Divine protection is up for both impales and reduces the burst on you enormously.

If healers complain about the DoT damage on tanks, tell them to suck it up and realise they're playing in the big leagues now.

11-28-2009, 08:06 AM
Also do not forget Healers themselves have CDs that can be used. Same with Retadins. My guild tends to have me use my parry/dodge trinket during impales and after my co-tank taunts I use BoP on myself to remove the impale dots. (Mostly due to how we rotate the impales)

Edit: This is also one of those fights where you may want to put those 3 points from Reckoning into Divinity.

11-28-2009, 08:13 AM
Actually, this is the one fight where overhealing is so massive Divinity's value is an absolute zero.

11-28-2009, 08:15 AM
Well, I thought it might help if even just a little bit. Thanks Synapse.

11-28-2009, 08:52 AM
Do you have a second stamina trinket? IE - the one from normal ToC5 would be pretty nice, or even the dodge/armor on use of the ToC10 trinket would be a decent swap in for that Ony quest trinket.

My guild uses a 5/5/2/2/2/2 impale stack rotation between me and our prot warrior, using HoP and Divine Shield to drop the first 5 stacks.

11-28-2009, 09:09 AM
It's because divinity scales inversely with healing taken.... the more heals you are receiving, the less necessary it becomes. Even at a standard heroic gear level, healers can just fill your health within a gcd or two without worrying about mana, it's why divinity doesn't help.

11-28-2009, 09:22 AM
Would need logs to see why you're dying.
The boss doesn't hit that hard to begin with, its just his impales. You might just need more HP.
I tanked that boss with just a bit more HP than you had at the time, was able to take 2-3 stacks or so(provided I Bubbled them off soon), was specced into divinity instead of the extra threat at the time too.

11-28-2009, 01:49 PM
Good shit guys, thanks for all the advise. i didn't get Vindication cuz we always have 1-3 Ret's in the raid. But the more i think about shit happens, if they die, or are somewhere killing Kobolds, that screw's me. i'll chage that over next time i'm on.
i have Heart of Iron (http://www.mmo-champion.com//i/news/2009/march/9722/loot_9722_291.jpg) and Both Brewfest trinkets (bad luck with Juggernauts, it dropped once and the War MT got it lol), i'll play around with those next time we do 25 hero. What logs are you guys talkin about? I'm on a Low pop server and was in casual guilds before Ulduar, kinda new-ish to the progression/extreme raiding, sorry for the nub questions lol. Last Q Blood and Glory (http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/48699/blood-and-glory/) vs Burnished Quel'Serrar (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=49495), i know for the fight weve been talking about Blood is better, more HP. but in general am i right that the buff isn't up enough to be worth it?

11-28-2009, 07:03 PM
I dislike Quel'serrar mostly because I know that at some point the proc won't be there when I need it most, and I like to make tanking about absolutes. Also Quel has zero strength on it which gimps your aggro, although it being slower provides a very small benefit I suppose (Bigger SoV proc when you use HoTR, but that's versus less damage on every other ability). Stick with Blood and Glory. :)

11-28-2009, 07:40 PM
I personally prefer burnished because that much armor is just not pass-up-able even if it's not 100% up time, though I guess it does come down to personal preference.

As far as your armory, it seems pretty good, the only thing I'd say gear-wise is to switch the agi/stam gem in your helm with the stam gem in the red socket in your legs. There's no need to gem for an 8 hit bonus instead of a 9 stam bonus. I'd also say switch to the 30stam/15 resil shoulder enchant and put 240 armor on your gloves (or 18 stam).

The Brewfest trinkets are also more overall EHP, though it is raw hit points instead of absorbed damage, so if your healers can't catch up than maybe absorb is good, but you still gain more hit points than you would absorb from being hit full to dead with glyph of indom on. However they don't have the proc, but the proc also doesn't help much for getting hit in the face with the impale.

You should be able to tank Gormok just fine imo.

12-01-2009, 09:13 PM
We got them down! Thanks for all the advise, i didn't get raped tonight and we ended up downing Beasts in H 25 ToTC! Jaraxxus Sunday.