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Kraggernaut
11-23-2009, 04:28 PM
Greetings All,

Firstly let me say hello to everyone, this being my first post on these forums.

I decided to create this new post as not to derail the Chill of the Throne post a couple down which is mainly focused on the mechanics of the debuff and how it will affect our tanking.

The small question I have is for fellow warriors, and, although I have good instinctive knowledge of our class, I lack in the mathematical and statistical areas.

Regarding Chill of the Throne and Revenge, the stats have been playing on my mind. With 20% less dodge, is that in essence 20% less Revenge? Does anyone foresee this being a problem be it large or small for our threat generation especially at the start of an encounter?

Cheers,
Krag

Kazeyonoma
11-23-2009, 04:32 PM
shouldn't matter in the long run.

you're average warrior tank will have around 75% avoidance+block going into ICC

losing 20% puts us at 40% avoidance and 15% block still so 55% avoidance+block.
the cd on revenge is 6 seconds.
you have 3 attacks that can occur from the beginning cd of revenge till the cd comes off before you're "wasting' revenges.

the chances of 3 attacks landing back to back to back without a miss/dodge/parry/block to proc revenge is .45*.45*45 = .091125 or 9%. 91% uptime on revenge unbuffed is pretty good, and raid buffed you're probably even higher. not to mention if you factor in shield block uptime which guarantee's revenge uptime, I'd say it's probably not gonna factor into revenge uptime much at all.

Kraggernaut
11-23-2009, 04:38 PM
Great, thanks for the maths there, thats put my mind at rest on that part at least!

I notice you mention block, which at the moment, people in earshot on my server are shouting from the rooftops how valuable block will be and how everyone should rush out and stack as much as possible for ICC. This is mainly due (in my belief) to the fact they don't understand the mechanics or the reasoning for Chill of the Throne, however I can agree that more of the incoming damage that can be mitigated more frequently through block is going to be a plus, is this something that people should really look to gain in %?

Personally at the moment I'm of the belief that we should be continuing to gear, gem and improve our stats as always, not being overly possessive of any certain stat (except stam right now!) and that the debuff implemented is all relevant to the direction of the game.

Cheers,
Krag

Insahnity
11-23-2009, 04:52 PM
I notice you mention block, which at the moment, people in earshot on my server are shouting from the rooftops how valuable block will be and how everyone should rush out and stack as much as possible for ICC. This is mainly due (in my belief) to the fact they don't understand the mechanics or the reasoning for Chill of the Throne, however I can agree that more of the incoming damage that can be mitigated more frequently through block is going to be a plus, is this something that people should really look to gain in %?


*Winces @ pugs who stack block for ICC*. Unless there's a gimmick fight out there for it like Anub, I just don't see a need to change strategies just yet.

Hammerfists
11-24-2009, 03:18 AM
Personally i wouldn't change what you're doing for chill of the thrown. Reason its there is can you imagine the next step after Anub hardmode. Yeah that's right bring the lube. If you go block happy you're just over thinking it because chance on hit more armor will never surpass removing damage off the board. The way gear was going doing hardmodes was more a game of chance then skill because if you hit a cold streak with dodge/parry God help you.

Satorri
11-24-2009, 11:27 AM
This has been a running concern for Death Knights, actually, who were worried as we are significantly more dependent on Rune Strike than Warriors are on Revenge, but it doesn't quite work out like you may think.

If you made use of every single possible proc of Revenge, losing 20% out of your total ~60% dodge+parry+block, then it would actually be a ~33% loss. The reality is that you actually lose a great deal of procs because they happen in the cooldown, you wait to hit the button to use a different ability, etc. In reality you can expect a much smaller % loss of Revenge availability, and in general I don't expect you'll see it very much.

For consideration, collect a combat log (/combatlog in the chat line to start and end the log) and load it on one of the sites that parse the data. Check out where Revenge falls on your total damage, or better still load it into the threat parser here on TankSpot and see what percent of your total threat it comes to. You may find it is a very small loss.

proudmoore
11-24-2009, 11:41 AM
Re - Block

The power of block scales inversely with the damage range that you take from a given mob. While balancing CotT will involve more, smaller attacks, it is unreasonable to think that going from 60% avoidance to 40% avoidance will result in the damage range being so drastically reduced to the point where a block becomes a non-trivial part of the attack. I would imagine most tanks going into 25-man ICC will have ~50k health raid buffed, give or take 1-2k; this will probably be scaling towards 60k in ICC gear.

Unless a lot of the bosses in there suddenly start swinging one hell of a lot faster, there is no way that the life of a tank can be seriously threatened if the melee damage ranges drop to the point where block is negating a non-trivial quantity of damage. And I'm inclined to trust the Blue quotes of the order of "tanks - you're going to die, trust us"

Aggathon
11-24-2009, 07:04 PM
Re - Block

The power of block scales inversely with the damage range that you take from a given mob. While balancing CotT will involve more, smaller attacks, it is unreasonable to think that going from 60% avoidance to 40% avoidance will result in the damage range being so drastically reduced to the point where a block becomes a non-trivial part of the attack. I would imagine most tanks going into 25-man ICC will have ~50k health raid buffed, give or take 1-2k; this will probably be scaling towards 60k in ICC gear.

Unless a lot of the bosses in there suddenly start swinging one hell of a lot faster, there is no way that the life of a tank can be seriously threatened if the melee damage ranges drop to the point where block is negating a non-trivial quantity of damage. And I'm inclined to trust the Blue quotes of the order of "tanks - you're going to die, trust us"

Correct, and didn't they also say that the bosses will hit harder than current ones, just not as hard as they would if they didn't drop avoidance? That way incoming damage is the same that it would have been (and higher than current damage) but less spikey.