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View Full Version : The pull on HM anub.



Tayschren
11-19-2009, 10:44 PM
I am having threat issues on the beginning pull of HM anub. It causes annoying deaths every once in a while.

Necessary Information:

Armory - The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kil%27jaeden&n=Tayschren)

Video of the pull - YouTube - on the pull

Rotation is pretty standard. I start off with a DG due to the problem with people pulling off of me.

Any explanation as to why I am starting out with such low numbers? It isn't preventing us from actually downing the boss, its just terrible to lose a person so early on when we are going for 45 attempts.

Thanks,

Tay

Dreg
11-19-2009, 11:08 PM
tell your dps to back off?

Chamenas
11-19-2009, 11:09 PM
Well, for one, you're sitting at about 5.30% hit, which is 2.70% away from the soft cap which can result in missed specials, which hurts your threat. In encounters that aren't so tightly tuned you can get away with it, but for the heroic Anub encounter it sounds like the DPS cannot hold back at all and so you have to give it everything you've got. Try to get some hit food and anything else which can help you bridge that gap. The only other thing I can think of is giving yourself a 5 second thread-lead window, but in an encounter were 5 seconds can be the difference between not making the timer or killing him, that could be an issue.

From what I know though, you'll probably want to get your hit to soft cap if you want to compete for threat with the top threat dealing dps. See where that gets you.

Toblerone
11-20-2009, 12:16 AM
Tricks, MD's and tell your DPS to calm down. Our Anub tank yells out over vent if he gets a series of parries or dodges and isn't generating much threat so that our dps can hold off for a few secs.

Communicate with your raid during the pull or just tell them to wait a few moments before dpsing. If your threat is low for more than a few seconds into the pull then as Lulia suggested above, get some more hit and expertise to make sure those first few crucial hits all land giving you a strong threat lead.

vine
11-20-2009, 05:19 AM
We use our Paladin add-tank on the pull. He gets the Undead crit bonus and can frontload 50-60k threat in a few GCD's, then the MT taunts back once the adds spawn, it's profit all the way.

Not sure if that's an option for your raid setup.

orcstar
11-20-2009, 05:26 AM
I think pulling with a non damaging taunt-ability is bad. Better to use a damaging ability. You can do a taunt ability a bit later to make the mobs stick on you in case someone has a critstreak, but what you do now is lose a global cooldown before Icy Touch hits.

If you look at 5the first second of the pull you see DG doesn't do any threat. So if you use it, use it as 3rd or 4th ability.

Giliandrix
11-20-2009, 08:05 AM
Looking at your recount I see you have a rogue and a hunter.

If they both use Tricks and MD whenever it's up, there's probably not going to be an issue.

Tayschren
11-20-2009, 09:20 AM
Well the issue with tricks and MD is - we have our warrior tanking the 4 adds. He gets tricks and MD from them to keep adds in check. Its just the pull that I seriously have issues. We just had a rogue Gquit, and when we had him to drop me tricks... no problem. Now that I have to make the pull unassisted, it can be hairy. We downed him last night with about 1:30 left on enrage, so DPS could hold back, but they tend not to.

I pull with DG because it does not share a GCD, I still have Dark Command just in case, and it gives me a small 3 second buffer to put up my plagues.

Chamenas
11-20-2009, 09:40 AM
Well the issue with tricks and MD is - we have our warrior tanking the 4 adds. He gets tricks and MD from them to keep adds in check. Its just the pull that I seriously have issues. We just had a rogue Gquit, and when we had him to drop me tricks... no problem. Now that I have to make the pull unassisted, it can be hairy. We downed him last night with about 1:30 left on enrage, so DPS could hold back, but they tend not to.

I pull with DG because it does not share a GCD, I still have Dark Command just in case, and it gives me a small 3 second buffer to put up my plagues.

That's not your fault, talk to your guild leader or raid leader or whatever. It's the responsibility of the DPS to manage your threat. Your only responsibility is to keep threat, but if you're doing everything you can, then the difference falls on the DPS to make up for. If you're ending it with a bit of buffer room, then your DPS should give you a 5 second threat lead or something.

Edit: Question, was that 1:30 with someone dead at the beginning?

Quinafoi
11-20-2009, 09:49 AM
Along the same lines as using a front loaded threat tank (paladin) to generate threat for you before you taunt, you can also have paladins set to pre-emptively use Hand of Salvation on your high threat dps on the start to gimp their threat generation off the bat.

Chamenas
11-20-2009, 10:09 AM
I do hope your threat is using any threat reduction they have... Iceblock... Soulshatter... Feign Death...

Unger
11-20-2009, 10:27 AM
/agree with Orcstar. As soon as your dps sees that you have pulled, they are going to open up. Im not super familiar with DK's but for a warrior, I heroic throw and charge at the same time. I pop shield block and smash an SS and that sucker aint going anywhere....

Tayschren
11-20-2009, 11:38 AM
/agree with Orcstar. As soon as your dps sees that you have pulled, they are going to open up. Im not super familiar with DK's but for a warrior, I heroic throw and charge at the same time. I pop shield block and smash an SS and that sucker aint going anywhere....

If you watch the video it takes a while to generate our threat. I have to drop plagues first and thats a window for someone to climb up on me. As soon as I drop a DS, HS, HS... I tend to be alright.

My TPS is fine once I get a rotation up. When I am frozen from the slash, it gives our direct damage arcane mage some time to catch up to me, but it usually ends up alright. He is also missing 1 pt in AS. Last night I finished with: 2475k Threat and the next closest was the direct damage arcane with 2201k.

Synapse
11-20-2009, 11:45 AM
So your case is resumed by two things

1) Don't pull with Death's Grip.
2) Tell dps to count to 4 before dpsing.
There's no simpler solution as effective as #2 to solve your threat problems. Your ONLY problem is the early threat, then their ONLY duty is to not start early.

Tayschren
11-20-2009, 01:07 PM
Thanks for the answers guys. I will see what I can do to get the DPS to comply, as well as save that DG for later.

Chamenas
11-20-2009, 01:13 PM
If you can up your hit at all with side grades that dont hurt your other stats too much, it won't hurt. DKs are in an especially tight position because a number of our abilities are spells and subject to the spell hit cap, like mind freeze.... (which isn't a threat ability, but still.... *grumbles*)

Tayschren
11-20-2009, 07:27 PM
Yeah, I missed out on Decimation last night. Would have been a pretty solid upgrade. I am still waiting for the Expertise mace to drop, though.