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Prancy
11-19-2009, 08:26 PM
Evening Tankspot, I have a problem,

My rather small 10 man running guild is in a position where offered the chance to merge with a larger guild with the idea to be able to tackle 25 totgc. A merger is absolutely out of the question for us we like our independance and just got to the point where we have 10 consistent guild members to run with. The bigger guild doesn't sound terribly keen on a joint guild run partly because of the loot issues.

I pose this question, what loot systems work with joint guild runs? I really don't want something silly like loot to come in the way of progressing in 25 totgc

Fealthas
11-19-2009, 08:31 PM
What I've seen on my server with reg 25 ToC is 1 epic/trophy a run, open roll on crusader orbs. About the 1 epic/trophy, it's like, if you're the only feral druid/rogue in the raid, you can get as many pieces as you want, or if there are 2 ferals/rogues, one can get a piece but cant get another til the other person gets one. If you get the idea, thats how it works in that run. Hope this helps :)

Karatheya
11-20-2009, 02:18 AM
If neither of you are using EP/GP, you could use it with the "outsiders" patch:

Issue 237 - epgp - Outsiders support - Project Hosting on Google Code (http://code.google.com/p/epgp/issues/detail?id=237)

What you do is have the larger guild hold the EP/GP standings, and the other (smaller) guild makes level one alts in the bigger guild. You use the public note to link the level 1 alt to the name of the main in the smaller guild. Then when EP/GP goes to increase the EP or GP of the main, it stores the value in the officer note of the level 1 alt.

The problem is that this system only works if you only use EP/GP for your joint runs - the loot distribution in those runs will directly reflect the effort put forth and loot received in those runs. Neither guild can use EP/GP for their all-guild runs (well, technically the smaller guild can, as they're not using their officer notes to store the join run data). The effort your raiders put forth in all-guild runs runs will not improve their chances at loot in the join runs, which might not fly with people, so be upfront with them before choosing to do this.

Basically, it's stateful loot with two distinct states per member - one for all-guild and one for join runs (assuming your all-guild runs have state).

Also, this is an unofficial patch (which the author of the ep/gp addon has refused to integrate, even though there is widespread community support and the author of the patch has been updating it for nearly a year at this point every time a new version of the addon comes out). While everyone doesn't have to have the addon installed to participate in EP/GP, anyone who does have the addon must have the patched version, otherwise the standings of the smaller guild will be invisible.

I wrote a bit more about this in an article from May that may be of use to you:

The EP/GP Loot System « Cold Comfort (http://blog.cold-comfort.org/epgp/)

Cheers

Ereshkigal
11-20-2009, 05:12 AM
My guild has worked with 2 guilds when it comes to a raiding alliance, and loot caused a problem in the first one. We are not using DKP and the other guild did. What we did was to have each guild roll on the loot. The player with the winning roll won the loot for their guild, and from that moment on the guild who won the item applied their own loot rules. For the other guild it was the DKP system and we used the roll system. It doesn't work all too great as the loot distribution takes awfully long (and the risk of having players who roll on everything just to make sure their guild wins it). I can't say it works for a long-term plan but for a few joint guild runs it did.

What we did with the second (and new) raiding alliance we recently established we got all the officers from both guilds on vent to discuss our loot distribution systems and finding a middle way. We decided to use the rolling system we currently use in our own guild (which is the same as theirs except they were not that strict in the 1 epic per person), which is based on 1 epic per person based on class hierarchy how Faelthas described it. The trophy's and orbs don't count as gear so if you did win a trophy you just don't roll on the next. The patterns that drop have the same rule except we require people to link their profession to prove they can use it. I always keep the list of our guild who wins what, and the officers of the other guild keep their members in check. Both guilds have penalties for people with a greedy attitude as well. I have to say it works great for both of us and loot-wise there were no issues at all.

Penlowe
11-20-2009, 10:21 AM
Rats, I've lost my link, but if you Google Small Guild Alliance you should find something that looks like a guild website that will give you a ton of information. SGA was started on... Perenold? iirc, and sort of spread to a couple other servers. It's been around since vanilla and they have worked out a lot of the kinks of raiding regularly with more than one guild.
Here are a couple:
WoW Small Guild Alliance (http://www.alliancesga.com/wwc/)
Portal - Small Guild Alliance (http://s11.zetaboards.com/Perenolde_Alliance/site/)
Small Guild Alliance : Home : World of Warcraft Guild Powered by GuildPortalâ„¢ Guild Hosting (http://www.guildportal.com/Guild.aspx?GuildID=36408&TabID=323569)
Blackhand Small Guild Alliance : Home : World of Warcraft Guild Powered by GuildPortalâ„¢ Guild Hosting (http://www.guildportal.com/Guild.aspx?GuildID=34862&TabID=310523)