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Bragoon
11-17-2009, 04:09 PM
So, currently most End game tanks currently are gemming for socket bonuses, has anyone got any solid math on which is going to be best to gem for when ICC comes around, (sticking with endurings/regal or just going for straight stam again, or replacing endurings with stam and regals with defenders, which is parry stam)

Vindicatar
11-17-2009, 04:29 PM
firstly, most end game tanks are gemming for stam, not socket bonuses, the only bonuses really worth getting are the +9/12 stam ones. if the bonus isnt 9/12 stam, just slam +30 stam into every socket.

b4 i get flame, no, u dont always gem for sstam. u gem for def for an unhittable set for anub adds.

i will say that most tanks will still be gemming for stam in ICC. i know i will be. there is no reason to gem for parry as the 20% dodge reduction is done AFTER diminishing returns, so u would still get more out of dodge (unless u have a ratio of dodge: parry of 1.875:1, then gem for parry) but dodge will still be greater than parry.

i doubt the dodge reduction will really be noticable anyways, and if bosses arent hitting like trucks(which is blizzard's plan to smooth out incoming tank damage) then stam will become even better to gem for

Bragoon
11-17-2009, 04:46 PM
firstly, most end game tanks are gemming for stam, not socket bonuses, the only bonuses really worth getting are the +9/12 stam ones. if the bonus isnt 9/12 stam, just slam +30 stam into every socket.

What end game tank isn't gemming for socket bonuses? My only non met socket bonus on me is my weapon, and im using it for my anub set currently, so im just going to leave defense in it.

krc
11-17-2009, 05:01 PM
I am going to guess it will be just gemming for stamina. I think this for new progression the majority of tanks go for EH because of the harder hitting bosses and the fact that EH is safer for starting new encounters because almost every encounter can be done by stacking EH although for certain ones it may not be favorable to other stats, while encounters like Gormok can be almost impossible to tank if you are stacking avoidance without out gearing it.

Kazeyonoma
11-17-2009, 05:04 PM
I surely don't gem for socket bonuses...

everything tank in my guild doesn't.

now if you're talking bleeding edge progression like xav.

even xav doesn't socket for bonuses, he's got a few he's got strangely in the left side of his gear, but his entire right side of his gear is all stam.

darksend is all stam except for meta activation

Unless it's for a +stam bonus, I don't see many people gemming for bonuses...

Insahnity
11-17-2009, 05:13 PM
firstly, most end game tanks are gemming for stam, not socket bonuses, the only bonuses really worth getting are the +9/12 stam ones. if the bonus isnt 9/12 stam, just slam +30 stam into every socket.

Yes. And there are other reasons to go for bonuses, like large agi bonuses for feral druids, etc.


b4 i get flame, no, u dont always gem for sstam. u gem for def for an unhittable set for anub adds.

You are going to get flamed for your typing. My eyes bleed trying to read that. Please stop and desist, type it out or consider not posting.


i will say that most tanks will still be gemming for stam in ICC. i know i will be. there is no reason to gem for parry as the 20% dodge reduction is done AFTER diminishing returns, so u would still get more out of dodge (unless u have a ratio of dodge: parry of 1.875:1, then gem for parry) but dodge will still be greater than parry.

i doubt the dodge reduction will really be noticable anyways, and if bosses arent hitting like trucks(which is blizzard's plan to smooth out incoming tank damage) then stam will become even better to gem for

Avoidance is avoidance, even if you must surmount diminishing returns and chill of the throne. Pure stamina stacking is only effective up to a point, especially since the intent is to have bosses that will be connecting more often for far less.


What end game tank isn't gemming for socket bonuses? My only non met socket bonus on me is my weapon, and im using it for my anub set currently, so im just going to leave defense in it.

You will find that you are the minority if you gem consistently for socket bonuses. It's not "wrong", its just not optimal, and the explanation of why this is the way it is was covered in many threads.

Things life defense bonuses when you can be well over defense capped without enchants or gems, dodge bonuses when you are already knee deep in Diminishing returns, etc. have a lot of people ignoring socket bonuses. It's especially bad for druids, non-tier socket bonuses tend to be DPS stat based if they aren't agility.

vine
11-18-2009, 06:57 AM
Most tanks I see tend to gem for straight out stam, ignoring all but 9/12 socket bonuses. Until we get into ICC I don't see much point theorising gem choices.

Darksend
11-18-2009, 07:17 AM
darksend is all stam except for meta activation

Not entirely true kaz.

If the bonus is either stam or agi I will usually pick up socket bonuses as long as it does not require a yellow gem. ATM I think I have 3 or 4 shifting dreadstones.

also FH is horde now I hate you for xfering

Kazeyonoma
11-18-2009, 09:28 AM
well yeah, i saw those few Agi socket bonuses as well but figured those were self explanatory.

In general, the easiest answer, and probably most self-explaining answer is you gem and gear for specific encounters. you make the choice on stam or socket bonuses on an item by item basis. There is no "golden rule".

Bragoon
11-18-2009, 11:26 AM
also FH is horde now I hate you for xfering

I heard :(
Need a prot warrior? kek. :P

ZakThePally
11-18-2009, 05:45 PM
A lot of the gear data mined from ICC is littered with dodge so I wouldn't expect any problems with the Chill of the Throne effecting avoidance too much. I say go STAM STAM STAM.

TomHuxley
11-19-2009, 10:33 AM
What end game tank isn't gemming for socket bonuses? My only non met socket bonus on me is my weapon, and im using it for my anub set currently, so im just going to leave defense in it.

I don't know any that are, unless the socket bonus gives you enough stam to make it worthwhile. I know I haven't since my early kara days when I didn't know better.

BTW, bosses are still going to hit like trucks. I promise. They avoidance nerf was so they wouldn't have to hit for an even larger percent of your HP in ICC, but they're still going to hit for the same proportion as they do in current content.

Torebore
11-22-2009, 02:50 AM
I'm not sure if the stats on the current loot lists are final, but if they stay as they are, warriors are going to have to gem for expertise in at least a few sockets. So far I have only seen a couple of items with expertise so hopefully Blizz catches that before 3.3 is launched.

TomHuxley
11-23-2009, 01:01 PM
Honestly, I just eat some expertise food when I find myself in a gear-set that is a bit low (although atm that's only a problem in my "edgy-5-man tank" set.

Kazeyonoma
11-23-2009, 03:21 PM
I'm sitting at over 47 expertise and can push that even higher in my current gear set. I don't think I'll be having problems with expertise.

Torebore
11-24-2009, 12:31 PM
I agree that right now expertise is easy to come by, but when we get to full tier 10/ICC loot, gemming for expertise may be the only option, regardless of a food buff. So far there are 2 items listed with expertise, the tier 10 legs, and the cataclysmic chestguard (emb of frost). Like I said this may be altered before the patch goes live, but just an observation.
Conversely, Blizzard has now overcompensated for hit. In the Nax/Ulduar tier people complained about not enough expertise on gear, then the ToC gear had lots of expertise pieces, but not enough hit. We then complain about not enough hit and now the ICC gear will have a surplus of hit, but not enough expertise. But sorry for the digression this is a gemming thread. I hope they re-itemize a couple of the hit pieces for expertise instead cuz I like stam gems :)

Aggathon
11-24-2009, 03:42 PM
What end game tank isn't gemming for socket bonuses? My only non met socket bonus on me is my weapon, and im using it for my anub set currently, so im just going to leave defense in it.

I'd like to think I'm an end-game tank and I don't gem for any socket bonuses except a +9stam bonus for my meta.

I imagine it will be quite similar for ICC in general, however I have a feeling I may be doing some gear swaps for some fights. Depending on how Sindragosa turns out, we may be needing to rock some parry gear (breath is an additional -50% dodge, there's no way to overcome that, you've gotta be either able to eat it or parry it) or it may be something you can just easily use cooldowns on and it won't require any extra form of gear.

The HPS fight also might require tanks to stack more avoidance than defense, the less damage the tanks take, the more healing can be done to the NPC, but this is also reliant upon how the hardmode mechanics end up being in the end. If it only requires 2 tanks and you have 2 holy pallies, then you might be able to toss up beacon and then it doesn't really matter. But if the tanks have to be more than 40 yards away from the boss, that could change...

Imo, what Kaze says is exactly right, gear/gem for the encounters. Right now and historically it has usually been stack stam, but that does vary for different fights (like brutallus did). Usually going into an unknown encounter it is safe to start with stam, then see what you need to modify.

I personally will be stacking as much stam/armor as possible, but keeping other pieces of gear open for change depending on what encounters may require.

Imo, it will really come down to what the end mechanics actually are like on heroic as to what end game tanks will do. Because of damage amplifiers/etc, Heroic fights can be completely different than normal fights, especially compared to the preliminary normal tests on PTRs.

Tagmonkey
11-26-2009, 09:47 AM
Xav has said that he will replace Enduring Eye of Zul's with Solids Majestic Zircon and continue to use Regal in purple slots for socket bonuses.

MudNova
11-26-2009, 10:35 AM
I completely agree with Aggathon... a good tank has to know when some kind of gear is useful over some other kind... And like always, Stamina is the best choice for unknown fights...