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View Full Version : Some Tank Thoughts & Nubbish DPS Questions



Squirrelnut
11-16-2009, 09:44 AM
I am fairly well versed as a Prot Warrior but due to some guild issues I may need to go DPS for a while. Our GM is hard-up to get a Prot Pally (stupid mechanics advantages :( lawl) and currently our 3 tanks include Druid, Warrior, Warrior (me). Although I am the tank leader being the most geared and experienced of the 3, all of us are fairly well geared and good at what we do. With that being said, I am the only one that has taken the time to max out an off-spec DPS set over time (because I hate leveling and max out this 1 character instead of playing with alts).

So to prevent having no raid spot for the other Prot Warrior we are considering having me go DPS so that a new Prot Pally could join our group. Thus my knowledge of DPS becomes much more important then previously being just 'something to play with' on our normal diff runs.

First off I was interested in what people thought of our tanking situation, suggestions on how to handle it, and if I do go DPS I have some nub questions:


Here is my armory, all suggestions welcome: The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Ner%27zhul&n=Squirrelnut)
When looking at your armory page, the T9 2pc set bonus (for fury) is 2% additional crit, is that included in the displayed crit % on the wowarmory site?
Same as question 2 except regarding Berserker Stance? Right now I show 33.10% crit, is that really 40.10% unbuffed when counting zerg stance & set bonus?
If mainly interested in 25m raiding content, there are almost always Paladins in the raid which would provide Might. As a Fury Warrior would it then be recommended to take the 5 points that would have gone into Commanding Presence and put them into other DPS talents such as Imp Execute & Imp Cleave? Perhaps something like this: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#LGMc0fhZhxj0Vbu0eRVkAo:GMoMzV) (I took 1 point for Heroic Fury to entertain myself in PvP).

Also from a raid buff standpoint would I be better off going Arms? Druids already provide the Crit buff that I would bring with Fury while Arms would provide bleed buffs. Would that out-weigh the DPS my being Fury spec would provide since Fury seems to start out-scaling Arms at my gear level?

EDIT: Please leave off the 'just do the spec you enjoy' argument because I have been both Arms & Fury and can easily do either. I want to be the spec that is the greatest benefit to downing bosses :D
EDIT2: If I were to go Arms I would use my Anguish - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=48056) and switch my chest for my Tier9 and legs for my Legplates of the Redeemed Blood Knight - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=48047) (Removing excess expertise while keeping 4pc set bonus)

MellvarTank
11-16-2009, 10:07 AM
To answer the first question - I think all tanking classes are needed for whatever benefits they can provide. It sucks when you have to switch out to dps from tank, but I would also say that you can get the other warrior (and druid) to learn off-specs as well so that they can swap out when needed. No sense in being unfair to one or the other.

As I recall (from looking at my armory occasionally when I am in fury) your stance sometimes (or all the time, I'm not sure) does not factor into your numbers on the armory... so your crit is lower than when you are in 'zerker stance.

I can't check the armory right now (at work) but will have a look later to comment on gear specifics.

Depending on how many paladins are in the raid, you may be better off with your battle shout. Usually I have found with 1 palli, I will request kings over might, then give myself the AP buff. It is the same as might, it just has a 6 min uptime as opposed to the much longer might (10m?) uptime.

As for the Arms v. Fury: How many druids are in the group usually? If there are a whole bunch of them them arms may be better for the raid, but if there is only one or two then the Fury dps may actually be better. I would say if you are doing more damage in Fury, stick with it to see how it goes, and make a change if it seems like that would be better based on your average group make-up.

TBH, I think Fury has a lot of advantages over arms in terms of dps because there is little (if any) ramp-up time to top your dps, which will generally equate to more damage and thus a greater help to the raid. This is, however, affected greatly by raid content... as some fights have a lot of movement on the part of melee, whereas other fights have very little melee movement.

Squirrelnut
11-16-2009, 10:11 AM
I was thinking along the same lines, I expect to remain Fury because we don't have any DPS druids atm and although we may be picking up 1, Fury will only continue to out-scale Arms as I get more gear upgrades.

Squirrelnut
11-17-2009, 01:51 PM
Anyone know about the T9 2pc bonus crit showing up on armory page question?

Squirrelnut
11-17-2009, 11:58 PM
A new nub question, I am an Orc and I just got an axe. Since I am fury and I dual wield I have an axe in 1 hand an a sword in the other. In-game my character screen shows split expertise 30 for the axe and 25 for the sword, is my racial 5 expertise bonus limited to the 1 hand with the axe? I would have thought expertise would have added to a single expertise total not just the 1 hand :( any idea?

I was hoping to replace an expertise gem since my axe hand is now 30 exp and well over the 26 cap but the other is only 25 so I don't know if I should.

Shortypop
11-18-2009, 12:11 AM
Regardless of whether you go dps fulltime I would definitely recommend all of your tanks getting a dps set (especially the feral druid - feral dps is still very high) - from your gear the rest of your tanks should be able to pick up a half decent EoH/EoT, reputation and crafted dps set; I haven't been following ICC that closely but unless your guild swaps people in and out for different number of tank-fights, for guilds that have been raiding a reasonable length of time no-dps set for most tanks is a poor showing.

My only comment on your gear is the meta that adds +agi and +crit damage is a worthwhile thing to consider as it's requirements can be met with one prismatic (if I'm remembering right, freeing up some gem slots if needed).

Destruyen
11-18-2009, 12:43 AM
Anyone know about the T9 2pc bonus crit showing up on armory page question?
stance bonuses do not show up on the armory (goes for tier bonus as well).

your orc racial only works in the hand that has an axe in it.

if you have a combat rogue in your raids for the 4% physical dmg buff, then it just depends on how many ferals are in your raids to trauma-bot for. if its just one,and you do more dps as fury than arms, then stay arms.if more than 1 feral, chances are their dps increase from not having to mangle will outweigh the dps loss of you going arms.

Squirrelnut
11-18-2009, 07:22 AM
Thanks for the input all:

@Shortypop - is that a cut you can buy off the JC vendor or is it a drop somewhere? I am a JC so I would like to get the cut as well as the gem :)

It is true all tanks should have an off-spec DPS set but our Druid tank used to be one of our guild main healers so he doesn't have one. The other Prot Warrior is just a bit new and is starting to work on one and I think the new Prot Pally coming in does have an off-spec ret set though I have no idea how good it is. Sadly my off-spec is basically on par with most of our guild's main-spec sets and FAR out classes anyone else's available off-spec (much more so now that I rolled main spec DPS last night and picked up the axe & neck).

@Destruyen - thx for the crit/expertise stuff, does it make a difference if your main hand is expertise capped (26) but your off hand is not (21)? Obviously I would like 2 axes but in the mean time my off hand is a sword and it seems like too big of a DPS loss to switch a JC str gem over to expertise to cap the off hand.

Also, we currently have 0 feral druids in the raid other then 1 guy who switches between healing and feral dps based on the fight so I expect I will stay Fury.

MellvarTank
11-18-2009, 07:48 AM
I would think that as close as you are to the Expertise cap on your OH weapon you should be fine gemming the strength. It is a balancing act between cap and power, and I think anywhere between 21-26 you need to find the balance in your gear where one stat will net you more than the other... I usually find strength will win.

I don't know if all tanks should have a dps off-spec, but I find it is really handy, especially when some fights are crafted around a single tank (Loatheb in Naxx for example) or the Faction Champs fight in TotC where the dps you gain is worth the tank loss.

allyourbass
11-18-2009, 08:56 AM
I just wanted to point out that when taking into account those that benefit from a near 100% uptime bleed, include Marksmen hunters. Using full/best buffs & debuffs on the online hunter spreadsheet (femaledwarf.com), I lose about 175 DPS not having a bleed as Marksman (piercing shots talent is a bleed).