View Full Version : DKs and ArP

11-11-2009, 07:19 AM
so last night I was sitting in orgrimmar talking to a warrior who was in the game gear level as my DK for DPSing, he was saying that if he changed to full ArP gems his DPS would go up about 2k, I asked, but doesn't that kill your Str? he was like nah. So i've been thinking, if I stacked ArP would my DPS go up too?

11-11-2009, 02:25 PM
Well, for warriors ArP and Str are the two prime red stats and usually the only thing stacked. ArP has been the favored item until a certain point, I'm not well versed in that point, yet. But for Warriors there's little ambiguity. Everything they do is physical damage when they're dpsing, so they get full value from ArP.

DK's get a little less easy to track, and of course, spec is everything. For Blood DK's you'll get the most value out of ArP as around 80% at least of your damage is physical (DC and diseases will be somewhat prevalent, and possibly DnD and BB depending on the fights, but none of these benefit. Because Necrosis is calculated after the weapon hits, based on them, that actually will benefit from ArP indirectly).

Frost does a lot of physical damage, again, depending on style and fight, but still, there are several key damage sources which will get no value from ArP.

Currently Unholy gets the least value as it relies heavily on spell damage, and its main FU spam is 100% shadow damage (ScS). In 3.3 though they're changing that so that you aren't going to suffer from getting the occasional ArP on your gear.

So, long story short, "stacking" ArP is probably not what you want to do as a DPS DK, but it won't hurt you to get some on your gear either. I imagine Kren's comprehensive compilation of DK DPS wisdom in the DPS forum may have more specific math. =)

11-12-2009, 03:31 PM
Slight correction: Warriors don't get full benefit from ArP, since a significant portion of their damage comes from bleeds. They still get a rather large benefit from it, though.

With absolutely zero information, I'm going to suggest that the Warrior you're quoting was/is confused.

11-12-2009, 08:24 PM
not really, he is in my guild, and his DPS did go up 1.5k, also last I checked fury didn't didn't have bleeds or not as much as arms.

11-13-2009, 07:14 AM
Are you sure bleeds don't benefit from ArP?

I was assuming they did, and it would be very valuable to know if I was mistaken. =) It is physical damage, which is mitigated by armor, so it would stand to reason that ArP should still help.

11-13-2009, 07:53 AM
In addition the actual damage of the bleed ticks themselves is directly proportional to weapon damage, which is affected by ArP...

11-13-2009, 07:57 AM
Rend - Spell - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=47465)
Deep Wounds - Spell - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=12867)

Good call.

11-13-2009, 08:51 AM
In addition the actual damage of the bleed ticks themselves is directly proportional to weapon damage, which is affected by ArP...
But aren't they using pre-armor values? I'ld find it hard to believe the game would first calculate the damage reduction from armor just to scale Bleed effects. I know it works that way for MM Hunters because the bleed damage done is based on actual damage done, rather than a paper doll value, but at that time there is no more calculations needed, is there?

11-13-2009, 08:56 AM
Well, strictly speaking usually abilities like that are based off of personal stats, then mitigated on landing from that initial value.

I'm not entirely sure when ArP is calculated though. Armor has been homogenized in WotLK, but that doesn't mean ArP is handled before application. From one standpoint it would be reasonable to believe it is. In other words, the system takes all of your stats into account (ArP could be included because armor is consistent), generates the correct value, then shifts to the target stats/effects and generates the final number. It could be cross-referenced, so ArP is actually changing the armor value on the target for the calculation.

All of that could be neither here nor there. Do we have any references saying that bleeds do not benefit from ArP? Surely someone in the Warrior DPS community has done that testing.