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MudNova
11-09-2009, 01:09 AM
Thats how it goes... Ok, i'm a paladin, so most of time when you are tanking adds or thrash, you wont lose your Holy Shield charges before the cooldown is up, and sticking to that, you should have 72.4% avoidance to be un-hit-able...

You can either reach that 72.4% with a lot of Block, or a lot of Dodge (obviously it can't be a LOT of dodge because it would be kinda hard)...
But lets say, if you get a lot of Block, that would make you have a higher chance to block an attack than to dodge it or parry?? If so;
then if you get a lot of block instead of dodge/parry, you could lose your charges with a small amount of adds since you're blocking most of the incoming attacks??

Aggathon
11-09-2009, 01:17 AM
No, block gets pushed off the table first, yes the higher % you block the more likely it is for a block to occur, however the tradeoff isn't going to be with dodge/block, it would be with getting hit vs. block if anything.

So lets say:

30% dodge
20% parry
7% miss
5% natural miss

62% Avoidance
+20% block
82% avoidance.

So you're roughly 20% away, Holy shield is what, 35%? So you're gonna be sitting at 40.4% chance to block, and increasing block isn't going to increase that since you're already unhittable, since block is pushed off the table first, the only way your % block can go up is to drop dodge/parry/miss.

I don't think I'm explaining this too well... do you follow me?

Xianth
11-09-2009, 04:15 AM
No, block gets pushed off the table first, yes the higher % you block the more likely it is for a block to occur, however the tradeoff isn't going to be with dodge/block, it would be with getting hit vs. block if anything.

So lets say:

30% dodge
20% parry
7% miss
5% natural miss

62% Avoidance
+20% block
82% avoidance.

So you're roughly 20% away, Holy shield is what, 35%? So you're gonna be sitting at 40.4% chance to block, and increasing block isn't going to increase that since you're already unhittable, since block is pushed off the table first, the only way your % block can go up is to drop dodge/parry/miss.

I don't think I'm explaining this too well... do you follow me?


What Agg is saying is if you have say 60% miss/dodge/parry and 20% block chance from gear, when you put holy shield up you will only increase your block chance by 20 to ~40% (for simplicities sake). Miss/dodge/parry take priority over block and you can only have a total of ~100% (102.4% on boss level mobs) so any extra block is "not used".

You could think of it like this:

We all know oil floats on water, so with miss/dodge/parry being water and block being oil:

1) you have a bucket with 60 litres of water and 20 litres of oil in.
2) you get a new bucket of oil with 35 litres in.
3) you pour the oil into the first bucket and 20 litres of oil fills the bucket to the top, with the remaining 15 litres pours over the side.

Aggathon
11-09-2009, 04:51 AM
I used a First In-Last Out programming analogy with stacks to explain it to someone else earlier, I think what you said is easier to visualize though =P

Satorri
11-09-2009, 07:06 AM
http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f63/33093-combat-table.html

Ta da!

Nitpicks: block is not avoidance, it counts towards being "unhittable" in that some effects cannot be applied on a blocked hit. The concept of unhittable will invariably mean that you are being hit plenty still, they just will all be blocks. (And as said above, Block chance is what is pushed off the table when you go over 102.4% vs 83/boss, 101.6% vs 82, 100.8% vs 81, and 100% vs 80).

MudNova
11-13-2009, 06:37 PM
Thnx for the answer, and i did understand the first reply, i just wasnt able to answer sooner...

Thanx for making that clear 2 me... its a lot of help.
And by the way, i actually think block can be called avoidance, in some situations, since a main tank will never even look at "block".. because for main tanking is almost useless, but for an Add tank, block is going to be actually avoidance if you have enough block value, so, for an add tank, block is avoidance... atleast thats how i see it..

Aggathon
11-13-2009, 06:40 PM
And by the way, i actually think block can be called avoidance, in some situations, since a main tank will never even look at "block".. because for main tanking is almost useless, but for an Add tank, block is going to be actually avoidance if you have enough block value, so, for an add tank, block is avoidance... atleast thats how i see it..

Lol, we actually had this convo in another thread. I think we came to the conclusion that it's technically 100% mitigation, not avoidance, however your health bar doesn't really care whether we call it mitigation or avoidance because as long as you block all of it, your HP bar isn't gonna move =P.

MudNova
11-13-2009, 10:21 PM
Ok, now that i know that dodge/parry/miss comes before blocking, if a paladin (holy shield is 30% block) has 70.2% "avoidance", it would be better to gem dodge, instead of defense, so you can get more avoidance, since you are going to block every incoming hit... right?? or is defense still better than dodge in this case??

Airowird
11-15-2009, 03:33 PM
Ok, now that i know that dodge/parry/miss comes before blocking, if a paladin (holy shield is 30% block) has 70.2% "avoidance", it would be better to gem dodge, instead of defense, so you can get more avoidance, since you are going to block every incoming hit... right?? or is defense still better than dodge in this case??
Highly depends on the DR on miss/parry at that given time