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View Full Version : Why did I die tanking Onyxia 25? [Am I undergeared?]



Johannesburg
11-08-2009, 06:55 AM
Right after I died a healer asked about my defensive skill (which was at the time 550). Shortly after the pala offtank who picked her up, died (our gearlvl was similar). 30 seconds later I was kicked without warning.

Does Onyxia 25 require higher defense or something?

I don't have the combat log copypasted but it was somewhere along:

Onyxia's melee swing hits you for 6900 (5300 blocked.) 12900 Overkill.

Here's my profile: The World of Warcraft Armory (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Frostmane&cn=Watchtower)

I had like roughly 41 000 hp with all the raidbuffs.

shadowslyr
11-08-2009, 07:05 AM
you should be able to tank ony.... imo, i mean i did when i was pretty close to your gear level. however i have got to ask... you have only 3 pieces with block value... how did you block 5300 damage. that is impossible i think.

Surmaaja
11-08-2009, 07:08 AM
No, you dont need more defense for Onyxia.
Propaply just healers not beign "on the ball" enough to heal trough firebreath and big
melee hit right after it.
Make sure you have unbind "/sit" from your keyboard, accidentally sitting infront of bosses while positioning them has fatal consequences.

Jecked
11-08-2009, 07:35 AM
You got to rember in todays wow pugs see blues as greens. In 25 this is even more true. I would bet after you died they inspected you and seen blue gear and booted you. Now wearing a few blues u could still tank Onyxia imo.

My ? to you is are you sw the big hits, last standing when u see them coming and know healers are a bit behind? Make sure your using enrage on fears so you are not getting out of pos or having your back to him.

Then I would say fill the blues with epics. God knows how easy they are to get these days

Johannesburg
11-08-2009, 08:38 AM
No, you dont need more defense for Onyxia.
Propaply just healers not beign "on the ball" enough to heal trough firebreath and big
melee hit right after it.
Make sure you have unbind "/sit" from your keyboard, accidentally sitting infront of bosses while positioning them has fatal consequences.

Okay. Yeah I didn't sit, Z is demo shout and X is Thunderclap.


You got to rember in todays wow pugs see blues as greens. In 25 this is even more true. I would bet after you died they inspected you and seen blue gear and booted you. Now wearing a few blues u could still tank Onyxia imo.

My ? to you is are you sw the big hits, last standing when u see them coming and know healers are a bit behind? Make sure your using enrage on fears so you are not getting out of pos or having your back to him.

Then I would say fill the blues with epics. God knows how easy they are to get these days

Yeah you're probably right. Guess I'll put some effort into getting
Boots of Heartfelt Repentance - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47201)
Regal Aurous Shoulderplates - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47514) refuse to drop though :mad:

Other than that, is my stat allocation way off or something? I know my expertise just took a nosedive due to recent gearchanges. Someone mentioned that i might need more block value?

I'd be thankful for any pointers/tips.

Mačl
11-08-2009, 08:54 AM
Did this happen in Phase 3?
A badly timed fear and inexperienced healers can cause quite some trouble here.

Rule of thumb:
During phase 3 if you are only at 50% health just before her fear hits, pop last stand/shield wall trinkets, whatever.

If there are no anti fear totems in the healers group then you are on your own.

That's not your fault and apart from what I've said there's nothing you can do about it. I regularly panic during Ony/phase 3 and put Pain Suppression/Guardian Spirit/whatever on the tank. When I tank her I pop my shield wall precisely two times. During the pull and in phase 3.

At 41k life raidbuffed no amount of new items will solve this problem. You are fine.
My best guess: Your healers sucked. In Ony 25 rule of thumb is to expect 12-14k damage every second on your tank. In reality that doesn't happen but you have to stay alert. What are you saving that mana for, anyway? The group gets very little damage here so a dead tank is ALWAYS the healers fault.

uglybbtoo
11-08-2009, 09:29 PM
Beg to disagree you are way undergeared to take on ony in 25 mode.

41K HP is very borderline for a pug ony 25 .. on top of that your armour is low because of your gear level. You are getting melee hit for 20K because of your low armour

Onyxia's melee swing hits you for 6900 (5300 blocked.) 12900 Overkill.

On a geared tank she hits 15K melee and her flame breath is 20K and in phase 3 you run over a lava crack thats 5K. Your damage is going to be higher than that and basically you can die from 2 hits and running over a lava crack or a single hit and a flame breath.

Adding more def or avoidance wont help you are feared and getting hit in the back you need more armour and HP to survive.

If you are going to try this again 2 healers with HOTS on you would be the best idea but generally I would say give this a miss until you are more geared. Hell you haven't even finished naxx or started on ulduar thats more where you need to concentrate for now. You should also be fine for onyxia 10 man.

I doubt there was anything wrong with your healers you would have been a nightmare to heal they only needed to get feared and you are dead.

Mačl
11-08-2009, 09:49 PM
Onyxia is a tricky beast. She could and can wipe a raid at will.

But she shows the healers at least one courtesy. You've got phase 1 to adjust to your tank. You know what to expect in phase 3.

You could put this down to an unlucky streak and I always whisper my tanks to be extra paranoid in phase 3(yes, I still respect Onyxia) but every healer has means to prolong a tanks life.

With WotLK I've seen healers who simply suck on so many levels. I've seen Holy Priests who never use Guardian Spirit. I've seen raids with no ProM bouncing around but mine. I've seen earth shield not used according to the situation.

I could've kept him alive. I've tanked Ony25 with similiar gear. You do not have to outgear stuff just to tank it. That's just lazy.

Fenier
11-08-2009, 10:48 PM
Beg to disagree you are way undergeared to take on ony in 25 mode.

41K HP is very borderline for a pug ony 25 .. on top of that your armour is low because of your gear level. You are getting melee hit for 20K because of your low armour

Onyxia's melee swing hits you for 6900 (5300 blocked.) 12900 Overkill.

On a geared tank she hits 15K melee and her flame breath is 20K and in phase 3 you run over a lava crack thats 5K. Your damage is going to be higher than that and basically you can die from 2 hits and running over a lava crack or a single hit and a flame breath.


You are correct, but not exactly.

He's getting hit for 20k on Ony 25, because Ony 25 hits for 19-25k on most tanks, depending on Armor, and Demo Shout (Talented / non Etc). On My 32,000 Armor Druid, I still get hit for 19-22k and that's with fully talented Demo Roar. Ony 10 hits for around 15k.

So basically, depending on Armor, any two given hits will kill you on Ony 25 at 41k Hitpoints.

Additionally, her Wing Buffet seems to always hit, and ignores armor, and will hit for 21-24k depending on damage reduction talents etc and her Flame Breath (which does miss) can hit for 28,000 to 31,000 Fire (which also ignores armor)

This is only going to be made worse during Phase 3 when you have to deal with the Fears and Lava Eruptions.

She hits hard, but slow. You really want her debuffed and ideally be more toward the mid 40s or more for Ony 25. Some bad rounds and a gap of 2-3 seconds in healing and she'll kill me and I tank her at 52k hp. Using Cooldowns right before fears does help, but may not save you.

The back to back melee rounds, or a melee and wing buffet etc will pretty much always down you because each given hit reduces you below half health.

Mačl
11-09-2009, 12:46 AM
Wing buffet is neither avoidable nor blockable. Her fire attack is resistable but that's a coin toss, really.

I give myself fear ward during phase 2 just so it is up again in phse 3. Without clever group composition(i.e. shaman in tank group and the healers in one group, also protected) then Ony phase 3 is a coin toss. Even if you are in your most heroically achieved gear.

The Lady's not roflcakes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ-M0KEFm9I

Xianth
11-09-2009, 03:23 AM
you should be able to tank ony.... imo, i mean i did when i was pretty close to your gear level. however i have got to ask... you have only 3 pieces with block value... how did you block 5300 damage. that is impossible i think.


Critical block with shield block up.

You can easily have over 1500 block with only a couple of shield block pieces because of what you get from strength and talents etc. which would mean a 6k critical block which shield block is up.

uglybbtoo
11-10-2009, 07:30 PM
You are correct, but not exactly.

He's getting hit for 20k on Ony 25, because Ony 25 hits for 19-25k on most tanks, depending on Armor, and Demo Shout (Talented / non Etc). On My 32,000 Armor Druid, I still get hit for 19-22k and that's with fully talented Demo Roar. Ony 10 hits for around 15k.
.

Shield tanks will block 2-7K off each hit but bears dodge more hits assuming we aren't feared :=)

But agree with everything else you say.

Johannesburg
11-11-2009, 06:13 PM
Thanks for all the responses. I won't be main-tanking Ony25 anytime soon I tell you :)
She's one of the few bosses where I can understand that you need full [Epic] to come, at least if you intend to tank.

Need to have like 44k hp raidbuffed if I'm gonna try that again. But hey, off-tanks are still needed so I'll still be able to get a spot for it.

Mačl
11-11-2009, 06:19 PM
Remember to disarm :p