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View Full Version : Blood Tanking & Me. ...And YOUR help.



Cherufe
11-05-2009, 08:17 AM
Just recently i've spent some time looking into the blood tree and liked what i seen. Before this recent re-spec, I was Frost...holding aggro was easy both single target and aoe. There was no problems whatsoever other than health going down fairly quick. I changed to blood due to its high health and healability, I spent a half hour or so practicing my rotations on the target dummies at ebon hold and went on to heroic HoL. I have to say that was the worst run of my life. I wiped us maybe 4 times? Around that.
I tank Uld25 with no problems, when i was frost anyways, so h hol shouldve been nothing for me. I found the main problem is aoe threat, aggro was EVERYWHERE. Single target i did fine on, i dont think i held aggro on single targets well either but it was a pug and everyone was pretty much a fresh 80. So with a good group it wouldve been tough to hold single targets as well. Im not sure where else to look or what to ask really, i know the rotations, i have rune strike bound to my attacks, i mean i know blood lacks aoe but ive seen many people do it just fine without a problem at all.

Single target rotation
Icy touch, Plague Strike, Heart strike, Heart strike, death strike, death coil, heart strike, etc.

Aoe Rotation
Death & Decay, Icy touch, Plague strike, pestilence....then im lost.
After pestilence i find myself waiting for blood boil to come off cd and in that time i loose threat to the point of no return. Also when doing plague strike before pestilence i loose it there as well.

Glyphs
Death strike
Rune strike
Vampiric blood

And my talent build was basically Satorri's, just without corpse explosion.
When I say basically, I mean the same.
So any help/advice on what I could do here fellas?
I like frost, especially for the aoe, but blood is viable and I tend to see it through.

Theotherone
11-05-2009, 08:49 AM
I too decided to give Blood a try and I was always Frost. I am dual speced and was concerned about AoE aggro issues with Blood, so I my dual spec is now Frost tank spec and Blood tank spec. Decided DPS was for my hunter. Anyway, I tried Blood for the first time in ToC last night was was pleased for the most part, but will take a bit of work to get used to the aggro issues.

I noticed that Blood doesn't give the snap aggro that we're used to in Frost, but the survivability was great. I used Blood for everything except FC, where I felt Chains of Ice and HB would be more useful.

I'm also interested in the aggro issue and would like to hear what others with expericence have to say. As it stand now I plan to use Frost for trash and mulit mob encounters (i.e. Ony whelps) and Blood for single target bossees.

My Blood spec talents: The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Alexstrasza&cn=Theotherone&gn=Destiny)

Oranuworu
11-05-2009, 09:38 AM
Blood had always been my favourite tanking spec since I started a DK back at 3.0. One way to reduce the wait time for Blood Boil on AoE pulls is to drop DnD a little bit before you pull and then Death Grip the first mob to you. If you drop DnD with its back edge at your feet and the rest between you and the mobs they will all be forced to run to you. If you drop it 2 or 3 seconds before you death grip pull, by the time you get through IT - PS - Pest your blood rune from DnD should be coming back up. Then its off to Death striking for death runes and Blood Boil away while refreshing diseases.

Halgreg
11-05-2009, 09:42 AM
What it doesn't mention on most guides is timing. The suggested rotation is correct, but you have to take rune cooldowns into account.

Here's some variations, and a lot of it comes down to knowing what your group is capable of.

For example, Blood Boil is about as much "snap aggro" as you're going to get. For low dps groups i.e. fresh 80's, I usually just lay dnd, blood boil, blood tap to convert a rune to death, then blood boil again, then lay another dnd. That should give you enough lead over healing aggro and low dps, but keep your taunt ready. After that, then start the normal rotation, or just keep blood boiling (3 or more mobs) or heart striking (2 mobs) until they're all dead.

For higher dps groups, I usually lay dnd early, wait a few seconds, then deathgrip one of the mobs to the edge of the dnd so it gives you time for your runes to cooldowns as you do the rotation comfortably. Remember to deathstrike to get death runes.

Lectux
11-05-2009, 09:44 AM
Erm, cherufe if u can get on vent or a chat with me i can teach u since i hate typing long replies...

Kurtosis
11-05-2009, 01:26 PM
Until last week I had 2x tank specs too, Frost AoE for 5mans and Blood for MT'ing Onyxia and other bosses. However I just had to drop the Frost spec for a regular DPS spec, and have been tanking H 5mans in a full Blood single-target build (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Maiev&cn=Nightfreeze&gn=Efficacious+Omega) for the past week.

I'm pleasantly surprised to report that even with a Blood spec 100% optimized for single-target main tanking (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#jcEMqI0IsbMbssxhxZ0g:iGp0Mm)(linked in case my armory changes), that trades all AoE and DeathCoil buffs for single-target melee threat and maximum survivability, it can be done. Some tips:

1. On your AoE rotation, once you finish the initial 6 rune sequence and hit that all-rune CD downtime period, hit Blood Tap then Blood Boil, if you think you need a little extra snap AoE added onto the end. BT has a 1m cd though, so it's usually only available every other trash pull.

2. Use target marking to arrange the kill order and make sure the DPS both follow it and use single-target dps not AoE (which they should be doing anyway if they have any aspirations of either raiding or pvp). Automark (http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/automark.aspx) is a good addon for that, it automatically reskulls the next target in the kill order after the current skulled target is killed, makes kill order a no-brainer even for pugs. This is very good practice for raiding, for both you and the dps.

Or use the Skullme addon (DPS please allow) to automark your current target, and instruct DPS to focus-fire the skull only (this can get confusing if you need to change targets to taunt or DG a runner back, though).

3. For guild runs, make sure all the DPS are using an assist macro:

/target tankname
/assist
Have them bind that to a key (Spellbinder (http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/spell-binder.aspx) is great for keybinding macros, easier to use than the built-in Keybinding interface for that, imo) or put it on an easily reachable action bar slot, and make sure they know to hit it at least once every time a trash mob dies.

4. For pugs (or even guild runs if you've got some new DPS'ers), use the following macro at the start of the run, when everyone buffing up at the portal:

/p FYI I am a DK Blood Tank,
/p and my initial threat is mostly slow DoTs.
/p So on trash pulls, DPS please allow
/p at least 3s for my threat to build
/p b/f you start dps'ing.
/p Thanks!

Most DPS are trigger-happy in PUGs, and either don't know or need to be reminded that they don't have to start DPS'ing the instant the tank pulls. The healer can keep the tank alive a long time without any DPS going at all, so they can afford to relax and give the tank a few seconds to solidify aggro.

5. Just b/c you don't have any runes anymore after the initial rotation doesn't mean you can't generate threat or control the fight. You still have Taunt on 8s CD (6s w/ 2pc T9 set bonus (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=67119)) and Deathgrip (the 3s temporary taunt effect usually works even on mobs immune to the grip effect) (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=49576) to pull back runners, and can tab-autoattack/runestrike-spam through all the mobs too.

Rune Strike will hit your current target, even if one of the other trash mobs proc'd it, and on trash pulls it's usually proc'ing every second or two, so every time you see Rune Strike hit, tab to the next mob, repeat as needed. Or if you see a dps not focus-firing the skull, then target his target and wait for RS to hit it.

I use Scrolling Combat Text (http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/scrolling-combat-text.aspx) to alert me when RS hits. You may need some points in Scent of Blood to have the RP necessary to do this, though. So far I've been able to get by without that, ymmv.

You'll need Enemy Name Plates set to display for this. I never used that as Frost, but now use it religiously tanking trash as Blood. It's way too difficult to mouse-click target specific mobs without the nameplates, and tab-targetting does not always reliably cycle through every mob, can miss one sometimes (usually the one you need).

And I find precise targetting is easier if I set the camera view directly overhead. Less mob and nameplate overlap that way.

6. Finally, keep a close watch on whether the DPS are focusing your target or not, and if not keep one eye on their health bar too, and be ready to switch to theirs if they're getting themselves in trouble (eg they drop near 50% hp). And be ready to use Dark Command or Death Grip immediately if the mob goes after the healer.

Blood tanking trash requires much more threat micro-management, but imho that's one thing that makes Warriors really skilled tanks - most of them, especially the old school vanilla wow ones, leveled from 1 to 80 doing threat micromanagement like that, and now it's just second nature.

I believe that getting pro at AoE tanking in Blood will make you a much better tank of any spec or class, so don't give up and go back to Frost, persevere through the this steep learning curve. It's doable. G'luck.

Kurtosis
11-05-2009, 01:30 PM
Blood had always been my favourite tanking spec since I started a DK back at 3.0. One way to reduce the wait time for Blood Boil on AoE pulls is to drop DnD a little bit before you pull and then Death Grip the first mob to you. If you drop DnD with its back edge at your feet and the rest between you and the mobs they will all be forced to run to you. If you drop it 2 or 3 seconds before you death grip pull, by the time you get through IT - PS - Pest your blood rune from DnD should be coming back up. Then its off to Death striking for death runes and Blood Boil away while refreshing diseases.
Good tactic, I'd just recommend using Dark Command (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=56222) to pull the first mob instead of Death Grip (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=49576). It has the same range, but only an 8s CD (6s w/ 2pc T9), so it will almost certainly be off CD when you need it again. That way you'll have 2 ranged taunts (DG not only grips mobs but forces them to attack you for 3s) during the fight, instead of having DG on cd for most of it.

Cherufe
11-06-2009, 06:30 AM
Thanks for all the answers fellas, ive been trying more and more....still no luck but ill get there eventually.
I like to think of every instance i do like h vh, having to be able to put out threat at seconds notice. I think of that as preparing for w/e. And im just basically stuck on that, drop a dnd, it, ps, then im waitin a second or 2 for bb and i loose aggro then n there. Blood taps nice but like stated above, it has a 1 min cd which would be every other pull. The aoe frost puts out i love, plain and simple. But all in all i see blood as my main preference. And i would dual spec to 2 tanking specs but i do arena pretty often along with any other pvp. I must say though, as blood, soloing High priest thekal and Bloodlord Mandokir in ZG have never been so easy, i dont recall my health going down much at all. Something about bloods healability just wows me more so than frost.
I feel....safer.
Anyways, thanks again for all your answers and ill keep checking back & forth trying to figure this out.