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ScientificLee
10-28-2009, 10:39 PM
Hello,

Any experienced raid leaders out there? I have some rather sensitive matter to discuss and rather do it over PMs. It is in regards to leading raids.

Fenier
10-29-2009, 02:06 AM
You can PM me if you like.

Coro
10-30-2009, 02:05 PM
I have been leading raids since Molten Core. I would be happy to answer any questions if you have not gotten the answers already.

ScientificLee
11-02-2009, 04:15 PM
You know I sent a couple of people PMs just right now and i realize I didn't really ask my question.
SO here is the more clear version.

As the Read Leader the raid relies on me to explain the fights.

I tell them to watch the videos before the raid. This hardly gets done.
I explain the fight to them and give everyone their assignments.
IF we wipe, and we wipe a lot, I explain the fight in more detail, going as far as to tell people when to pop their CD and which spells to us. I have a feeling that the people who aren't doing their jobs begin to tune me out at this point. No one asks questions because they are afraid it will result in a long and detailed explanation.

1) how do you guys explain the fight.
2) I might be having problems with the healing assignments too. How to handle that? I usually roll with a Holy Paladin, Resto Shaman and a holy priest.

Snorrarcisco
11-03-2009, 02:27 AM
Mmmmmm

If a raid member doesnt know the fight that is surely a liability, most of the times whilst fighting a new boss we do somethng very quick on the go saying all the abilities of the boss thru raid warning. Healers I usually have that department sorted between the healers. There is usually one healer who will maintain the healers in check.

In relation to heroism, BRs, Innervates and stuff like that usually I call for them and give a specific member the role for it. Having Vent helps alot. But I must say that if we wipe specifically from one person who again resolves not to see videos or listen up then that person should skip the following raid.

If you are raiding in your guild then there should be someone in the healer department you trust to keep healers in check if you are pugging mmm hard to say just check them out on trash fight and usually they leaders shine on their own or actually come forward and say who they want to heal.

Ryoku
11-03-2009, 03:27 AM
Personally I find using bosstactics a veryhelpfull tool. Got a screenshot of the location, you can draw, and drag dots around to give a visual help.

Xianth
11-05-2009, 01:55 AM
When explaining a boss tactics in full, don't patronise people in such things as telling them when to use their cooldowns or what spells to use. They just won't listen after a while and you may give them information overload. Just make sure people know the important things and once they've grasped the basics, after a few tries, you can then tweak it by saying (for example):

"X boss takes double damage when he uses Y ability, are you guys using your damage cooldowns for it?"

"It seems that Y ability does nature damage, have X shaman or Z hunter been using nature res totem/aura?"

Also in 10 mans it's better to promote self responsiblity among the group. As you have a small bunch of players its easier for people to discuss roles themselves rather than you assign everything. I'm referring here to healing mostly (like who heals what) but it helps people become better players if they have to work some things out for themselves.

Thulldar
11-05-2009, 09:45 AM
Give all important strategies in raid warnings. In particular, healing assignments. I see a lot of raid leaders try to do it on vent, and people just don't remember. It results in a lot of tank deaths because Healer 1 thought he was healing Tank A, when he was supposed to be healing Tank B. This way they can always scroll up and find their assignment if they forget or weren't listening to vent chatter.

Don't abuse raid warnings though; if it's not important, use regular chat. People will eventually start checking the chat log whenever they hear the raid warning sound, and thus will actually read and understand your instructions.

Lanore
11-05-2009, 10:11 AM
I agree with Xianth and Thulldar.

Don't tell poeple how to play their class, just tell them what their role is. Assign healers with raid warnings so they can read it.

I've been raid leading 40/25/25/10 man raids since MC and it has never worked to single someone out and tell them how to play their toon. They either know how to accomplish what you assigned them to do or you need to replace them. I find I have more success leading by simply outlining the fight as it goes. Try to keep your voice calm, stress from you causes stress in the raid which leads to mistakes. Giving instructions like "dispel/spell steal now" is better than "JOHNNY F'IN DISPEL THE BOSS NOW". Johnny should know he as a priest his job is to dispel Jerraxus and a simple instruction should register with him. My instructions usually include things like, "DPS switch to adds", "Crash incoming", "Dispel Now", "Portal Inc", "Spread out now". etc. In which case they aren't really instructions at all, more making sure everyone knows what is happening and where they should be and what they should be doing about it, they should know.

Keep instructions geared toward the flow of the fight instead of specifics. It's easier on you and doesn't make your raiders feel like robots.

My 2 coppers

Theotherone
11-05-2009, 10:58 AM
We tend to give a quick overview of major abilitites and what not to stand in, since it seems the floor is the most dangerous place in WoW. Then do the fight. People can watch all the videos they like, but there's no substitute for doing. Also, for my 10 man guild, where I tank, we have the same core of 10 people so it's not like there's much explaining anymore.

Risky
11-05-2009, 11:08 AM
I prefer starting with one detailed walkthrough for anyone who isn't extremely experienced, and following that, I give short assertive vent reminders of upcoming abilities.

Its been said, but you can't play 24 other raiders. There's only so much your voice as a raid leader can accomplish, and the best benefit to a good raid leader is keeping the raid composed and focused, so they can play their own toons to the fullest.

Bashal
11-05-2009, 11:12 AM
If you have a lot of people new to the fight, especially if it's one of those "this fight has 4 phases" fights, a brief overview usually does about as well as a detailed one. The burned hand teaches best. You're gonna wipe, don't bore the guildies with long verbal explanations, let 'em learn from the wipe. They'll have questions after wipes, answer 'em and press on.

My 2 coppers, fwiw.

geros
11-05-2009, 11:16 AM
On multi phase fights where I know we'll wipe in an early phase I'll just go over the early components of the fight. It runs the risk that you'll get to a point where nobody knows what to do and you wipe but it sure beats a long explaination that most of the raid tabs out for. Momentum keeps the raid interested and engaged. Long pauses in action make people more likely to turn to tv/forums/porn/alloftheabove.

Turkson
11-05-2009, 11:29 AM
geros: I find it is best to manage the raid by threatening to manlge the raiders

Reev
11-05-2009, 11:40 AM
It's a rule in our guild that only designated people are allowed to talk on vent during a fight. That means usually that tanks can call out tank switches and cooldown usage, healers can call out their cooldown usage, and the raid leader does all other vent announcements. As the raid leader, I realize my guild sucks at actually reading the raid warnings from DBM, so I generally call out stuff, like "Raelara has Legion" meaning Raelara has Legion Flames and needs to run to the back wall. I explain the basic needs of the fight beforehand in long detail first, then follow up with a "stupid warrior" explanation which reaffirms the important points. That way, during a fight, I don't have to yell at Raelara to run to the back wall, I can just say "Rae, Legion" and he knows what to do.

These raid callouts make all the difference in the world in my raids between success and failure. It annoys me sometimes that I have to be the spatial awareness for my raid instead of them learning to do it themselves, but it seems to be what works.

Xianth
11-06-2009, 02:37 AM
If you have a lot of people new to the fight, especially if it's one of those "this fight has 4 phases" fights, a brief overview usually does about as well as a detailed one. The burned hand teaches best. You're gonna wipe, don't bore the guildies with long verbal explanations, let 'em learn from the wipe. They'll have questions after wipes, answer 'em and press on.

My 2 coppers, fwiw.


Yeh stuff like mimiron firefighter, we'd excplain the first phase and work on it. Once we got through it i'd go over p2, etc. etc. Multi phase fights like that need to explained and practiced seperately else people forget shit.

Fledern
11-06-2009, 03:25 AM
While i lead only the hardmode progression fights, i do chime in to help our regular leader too. When i'm in charge this is what i do:

* Spend MAX 2 minutes explaining the fight. Never longer. Keep a stopwatch if you must.
* Summarize the most important 3 aspects into 3 bullet points and type them out in /rw
* After a wipe, i take a moment to find out exactly why we wiped. The next 30 seconds concentrate only and only on that thing that wiped us.
* If singling out people for mistakes needs to be done, i do the first one only on /w, not public. You need to keep people's spirits & hopes up if you want them trying their best wipe after wipe.

Oh and i agree with the "burned hand" method. For multiphase fights, it's best to explain only the first, maybe the 2nd if your raid is really attentive. After that, whatever you say, including the bit they've actually listened is going to be out the window by pull time