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Deus
10-26-2009, 07:15 AM
Hello, I would like some advice regarding Warrior tanks. One of our guild's tanks, a warrior, is constantly being destroyed. In addition, I've heard a lot of complaints from our healers that say he is very difficult to heal.
Most people's responses to my questions as to WHY are very un-illuminating. I feel for the guy, really, so I'd like to get some advice from Warriors that make it work.

Here's his armory page:
Cloudl:
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Mug%27thol&n=Cloudl)

Any advice regarding spec, gemming or gear would be much appreciated.
Normally I would be main tanking as a feral druid, applying infected wounds for a swing speed debuff, so perhaps he doesn't need improved thunderclap.

Serrated
10-26-2009, 07:27 AM
Hello, I would like some advice regarding Warrior tanks. One of our guild's tanks, a warrior, is constantly being destroyed. In addition, I've heard a lot of complaints from our healers that say he is very difficult to heal.
Most people's responses to my questions as to WHY are very un-illuminating. I feel for the guy, really, so I'd like to get some advice from Warriors that make it work.

Here's his armory page:
Cloudl:
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Mug%27thol&n=Cloudl)

Any advice regarding spec, gemming or gear would be much appreciated.
Normally I would be main tanking as a feral druid, applying infected wounds for a swing speed debuff, so perhaps he doesn't need improved thunderclap.

Firstly you've not really mentioned which content you are goin through. Looking at the armory page i'm going to assume it is TOTC. Is there any specific encounter that he "blows up" on or is it varied ?

His gear is more than acceptable (although some of the bosses that hit hard will still be a problem as they are for us all) and his gemming seems fine. I would suggest he gets better trinkets (yogg 10, ignus 25 or Faction Champs 25) as these have active uses (parry, dodge and health) and the brew maiden ones do not.

His spec is a little strange, I can understand him wanting to spec in to cruelty for extra threat but, he would be much better off going for a standard 15/3/53 build and replacing glyph of Cleaving with Glyph of Vigilance. This should keep his threat as high as possible.

As for him blowing up unless he's showing his back to the target or as said before it's a complex encounter (such as anub, with the adds shadow strikes or Gormoks implaes) I can see no other reason other than not enough concentrated healing or poor use of cool downs.

Deus
10-26-2009, 08:08 AM
Sorry, I meant to say that we are successfully getting to heroic anub10. With another tank. Our warrior comes in every now and then and the difference is very notable. Gormok eats him for breakfast; I have considered he's not using cds well on Gormok's impales which I will bring up with him.

Thanks for the advice regarding his spec, I noticed he was missing imp disciplines but assumed he was going for more threat. The glyphing is probably to make heroics easier for him, but I'll try to suggest your advice to him, to make heroics a bit harder for him but, you know, raids easier for the rest of us.

The general feeling in our guild is that Ulduar has been and gone; not many of us can muster the effort to go in there again so unfortunately we make do with sad ilevel 200 trinkets.

Blue
10-26-2009, 08:40 AM
I also noticed he isn't specced all the way in deep wounds, or armored to the teeth..full attt is probably going to make the healers a bit more happy. I would also prefer TC, more than say, Focused Rage.

Glyph Devastate, instead of Revenge, or Cleave, depending on role in encounter.

Other than that, I kill for his gear, and don't understand why there'd be a problem keeping him up...unless, as Serrated mentioned, he's turning his back to enemies.

Thaak
10-26-2009, 08:43 AM
..full attt is probably going to make the healers a bit more happy.
How's that?

Xianth
10-26-2009, 09:29 AM
Dying on gormok is probably crap cooldown use if he has decent gear (can't check as i'm at work)

Lyssa
10-26-2009, 09:50 AM
OP: Your tank's gear is fine, with the exception of the trinkets. All that stam is well and good, but he has no tricks aside from shield wall and last stand. He needs some real tanking trinkets to give the healers some breathing room.

He also needs to change his glyphs, cleave and hs? Since he has no trinket tricks he should be probably be using Shield Wall and Last Stand glyhps so they can be used more than once in an encounter, again giving the healers a little help.

His spec looks to be ok.

Bovinity
10-26-2009, 09:55 AM
We're talking normal mode Gormok? Yeah, if he's dying on that, he's not using his cooldowns properly or something. With that gear he's sporting, there's really no excuse to have issues.

He is waaaay over the defense requirement, so he could swap out one of those defense enchants for some more stamina, but really that's not going to be the culprit here. He should be more than ready to tank regular modes.

Xianth
10-26-2009, 11:30 AM
OP: Your tank's gear is fine, with the exception of the trinkets. All that stam is well and good, but he has no tricks aside from shield wall and last stand. He needs some real tanking trinkets to give the healers some breathing room.

He also needs to change his glyphs, cleave and hs? Since he has no trinket tricks he should be probably be using Shield Wall and Last Stand glyhps so they can be used more than once in an encounter, again giving the healers a little help.

His spec looks to be ok.

Just got home, yeh his gear looks fine but as this quoted poster mentions, he really wants to the survival glyphs if he keeps getting destroyed. I personally find it a lot more useful now that it's easy to generate decent threat.

Blue
10-26-2009, 12:09 PM
How's that?

Oops, right, I was thinking armor...and this increases attack power. Which is not a bad thing, either. So, a bit more threat and dps would still make healer happier?

Ok, I'm stretching it, a bit...:o

drae
10-26-2009, 12:31 PM
His gear is sufficient for 10m heroic, it may get dicey at times, or be difficult if he's not doing things right, but he should be fine. I would put armor on my cloak, and HPs on my chest. (I'd advise picking up the tier gloves next /wink) His gemming is just fine.

His spec and glyphs could use some work. I would:
-Remove all 5 points from cruelty and fill up Armored to the Teeth and Deep Wounds. Put the last two in Imp. Disciplines. The extra three points there is worth more then 5 in cruelty.
-Remove 3 points from shield spec and place them in imp. Thunderclap. This will help make up for the removal of the glyph cleave, and will decrease his incoming damage. In a ten man I doubt there's someone else providing the full de-haste buff. The other option is to take these three points from Focused Rage instead of shield Spec. I prefer focused rage, others prefer shield spec.
-I recommend replacing glyphs on a per encounter basis based on the encounter. Since he's getting gibbed on NRB I would advise Last Stand, Shield Wall, and blocking (I'm not a fan of blocking, I but it's the only other defensive orientated glyph available. He can use devastate instead if there's threat problems).


There are a few methods to making Gormok easier:
- Keep Imp. Demo and Imp. Thunderclap up. The only acceptable reason to not be doing this is there's someone else in the raid that keeps the same de-buffs up 100%.
-Shield Block before taunt.
- I'm assuming 2 impales before the tank-swap. Chances are your seeing three separate "rotations" on each tank. The first one he should be able to survive on his own; the second one I would advise Last stand and an armor potion. The third shield wall. If he pops Shield Wall ~0.5s before the impale it will last through both impales om that rotation. One cool-down for each "2 stack" of impale.

Reev
10-26-2009, 12:34 PM
His gear is fine, but he doesn't have anything to reduce cooldowns. He's got a 5 minute SHield Wall and a 3 minute Last Stand. Of course he's going to get destroyed if he's not using his cooldowns regularly, and if he's speccing and glyphing as he is, I suspect his cooldown use sucks.

Generally, his gearing is resonably good, but that speccing and glyphing really suggests some basic lack of understanding of high end raiding. Warriors really need to be proactive about their mitigation. He looks like he probably has a reactive mentality which would be more appropriate in a paladin tank. Get him to spec into improved disciplines and pick up the shield wall glyph, then make him write 100 times on the chalkboard "I will use my shield wall."

drae
10-26-2009, 12:37 PM
"I will use my shield wall."

at the right time!

A mistake I hear of often enough is the tank shieldwalling too early, and thus it only covers the first impale, not both on that "rotation".