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View Full Version : did frost tanking die or is it just me?



NexsusTheFrostDeathKnight
10-23-2009, 08:47 PM
I've logged back onto wow after about half a year after the DW talent changes and freaky badge system, to find a fairly bad health nerf :/ so I spend money to go back to blood untill I got comfortable with the current way of things, on my server my gear isn't really an issue, I've only been asked once if I was defense cap'd/'is that your tank gear?' >.> but asidde from that one instance, everyone seems to be more concerned with getting the job done, and with the major dps I've seen from these people, they get it done indeed.

The issue for me is: I'm a frosty, but I've had the experience of my aggro as frost, being virtually none at all, it leads me to think frost has een hit with an invisible nerfbat, as blood, I'm entirely fine, mobs are glued to me, just like frost back at the start of the year, but with frost now, well, the rogue said 'my auto attacks shouldn't be pulling aggro', which was just a bombshell to me, only DnD/HB/BB was able to hold group aggro for the few seconds while they died to the ridiculous dps, single target, was soso, bosses were still tied to me, occasional mob seemed to like the others more.

Is there something I've missed? Whats happened to my beloved frost tanking? :(

Wars
10-23-2009, 08:56 PM
The overall thought is that frost is just as good as blood until you factor in 25man buffs(sunders, shattering throw, fairy fire, etc) along with things that buff your own AP/crit/str etc etc.

Blood takes off in that department. Frost however has more passive mitigation/avoidance than blood. Frost also has Killing Machine, Rime, and Dual-Weild is possibly my favorite thing in the game right now for DKs. Insane threat over my equivalent 2hander setups.

You remember us about 6 months ago, that's what, right after 3.1? Where we had previously dominated everything? You missed A LOT.

Kurtosis
10-23-2009, 08:57 PM
You talking about 5mans, or raids? What's your Frost spec? How's your gear level compared to the people pulling aggro off you (they've had months to gear up in Conquest and Triumph gear)?

I tank both Frost (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0EGZhxx0AbIof0buzAo0x:TawM0m) and Blood (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#jcEMqI0IsbMbssxhxZ0g:iGpM0m). Frost is still a strong tank spec, though alot of pro's are spec'ing Blood since it provides the highest effective health on bosses and fights with lots of non-avoidable dmg.

NexsusTheFrostDeathKnight
10-23-2009, 09:42 PM
You talking about 5mans, or raids? What's your Frost spec? How's your gear level compared to the people pulling aggro off you (they've had months to gear up in Conquest and Triumph gear)?

I tank both Frost (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0EGZhxx0AbIof0buzAo0x:TawM0m) and Blood (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#jcEMqI0IsbMbssxhxZ0g:iGpM0m). Frost is still a strong tank spec, though alot of pro's are spec'ing Blood since it provides the highest effective health on bosses and fights with lots of non-avoidable dmg.


5 mans only, I'm in no guild and I've only managed to raid once from some guild has had tank dropped.

my gear level is mostly lvl200 items, I got the superior achievement just yesterday with epic wrists from halls of stone. The thing that confuses me is that Blood is perfectly fine, their gear is irrelivant with blood, frost for me just turn into a lolfest.

my specs for blood/frost

Blood:
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=6&tal=0355220530003303200120131350005000000000000000 000000000000052300040000000000000000000000)

Frost:
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=6&tal=0055000000000000000000000000305050503520330103 002031013510052000000000000000000000000000)

Esch
10-23-2009, 10:34 PM
I wager that three talent points moved would help, but it would also matter your glyphs (that weren't listed).

Glyphs - Frost Strike, Howling Blast, Obliterate

Move points out of Epidemic and one point from Killing Machine, get 2/2 Two-Handed Weapon Specialization and Hungering Cold (read on!). The next spec is 12/54/5 (http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=6&tal=0055020000000000000000000000305050503420330103 012031013510050000000000000000000000000000). Note I left the Imp Icy Talons line, which most Frost Tanks drop...but honestly, it's personal preference. The extra haste does give you more melee swings, which means more possible Rune Strikes for single target threat.

AoE (heck, any heroic trash pull)
DnD, HB, BB, dump
Ob, HB, BBx2, dump

You can sub the second part to IT,PS,Ob, Pestilence, BB to trigger Imp Icy Talons and further debuff/threat build on mobs, assuming your DPS is AoE'ing with you.

There are gaps in that rotation, but those are often filled by Horn of Winter (10 RP!). The front loaded threat lets you focus your Frost Strikes on the kill target, and Hungering Cold gives you a group interrupt/FF mobs 'panic button' so you can restart AoE threat with HB & BBs. I use HC in raids, largely for the stun (interrupt) mechanic, but it's very versatile. Also, both HC and HB-glyphed apply Frost Fever, ensuring everything keeps that dehaste debuff.

The hardest change you need to make is your playstyle, as Frost suffers a major issue with RP dumps. If you're macro'ing Rune Strike, you need 20 RP to available to use it. If you dump all your RP into Frost Strike, you won't get Rune Strikes. This starvation leads to threat lost, as RS gets a major (1.5x) threat modifier while FS is only damage. Take a look at recount or a parse, as RS should be on par with FS for damage (thus meaning RS is outthreating FS). IF you see FS >> RS damage, then you're committing all your RP to FS, thus losing threat in the mindless RP dump.

ghromorth
10-24-2009, 09:37 AM
It's just you, frost its the best spec for ToC and ToCh, there is no diference in EH terms, i would rather say that frost has even more EH than blood. Will of the Necropolis just works 1/5 of the whole ticking, for example Anub'arak AoE its a blood killer. Gromok's impale too. I ran the tests myself and found that healers had a harder time while i was in blood than now that i'm tanking in frost.