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View Full Version : Warrior - Tanking Algalon problems



Dreadhauser
10-21-2009, 08:44 AM
Last night my guild and I beat Yogg+1 on 10 man, so we went to try Algalon.

I am a warrior tank (armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Dunemaul&n=Dreadhauser)), and our main tank is a paladin (armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Dunemaul&n=Saintajora)).

Our healers were a disc priest, holy priest, and druid. Most everyone (DPS included) is geared through ToC 10 with some 25.

The attempts were a complete train wreck because I kept getting gibbed.

The difference between our paladin tanking and me tanking was significant. He never needed a cooldown, while I constantly needed one or typically died within seconds of taunting.

While it's clear that the paladin outgears me, and that paladins are the tank of choice for Algalon, the difference was so large I find it difficult to dismiss it as a gear issue (our gear difference isn't that bad) or class mechanic issue.

So I'm wondering if it is (1) I'm playing it wrong, or (2) I'm gearing/speccing it wrong.

For (1), at the start of the pull, I charge, wait for him to aggro, pop Shield Block, Shield Slam, then Thunder Clap. Our paladin has Vindication. Once SB is down, I usually popped Shield Wall. I'd then try to hang on for 8 seconds for SB again. Trinket after. Pain Suppression followed (Guardian Spirit reserved for Big Bang). Cooldowns were chained fairly well, but I occasionally died during one. Last Stand comes to mind.

For (2), I have about 46k-49k with raid buffs. I switched out the armor trinket for the Brewfest trinket. Also tried Mark of the Relentless for a little more stamina. This didn't seem to do much--I still took boatloads of damage and died to a MH/OH combo.

I am wondering if SBV or block rating is the way to go. I found that block rating is rare in the newest tier of gear, and I'm not sure sacrificing that much health is worth it to go to previous tiers.

As for my spec/glyphs, I'm fairly certain that it's pretty solid. I may talent my shouts, or move some points into Imp. Spell Reflect.


I'd just like some feedback on my gear configuration if I'm doing something wrong there, or something wrong elsewhere. I know Algalon is supposed to hit like a truck, but I don't want to go back next week and repeat this embarrassment.

kroxix
10-21-2009, 08:54 AM
I think I tanked Algalon 25 with around the same stats as you (HP wise). One thing I can think of that I did differently (specifically for Algalon) was maximizing my avoidance ratings. Algalon hits so hard so fast, so if you take 3 to 4 consecutive unavoided/unmitigated attacks from him, you can almost guarantee it'll be a wipe. I hate telling you this, since avoidance is very RNGish.

We found the fight to go a lot smoother having a Paladin healer. Also, I was speccing into imp demo shout and commanding presence, which should not be overlooked for any progression content.

Aggathon
10-21-2009, 09:45 AM
I think I tanked Algalon 25 with around the same stats as you (HP wise). One thing I can think of that I did differently (specifically for Algalon) was maximizing my avoidance ratings. Algalon hits so hard so fast, so if you take 3 to 4 consecutive unavoided/unmitigated attacks from him, you can almost guarantee it'll be a wipe. I hate telling you this, since avoidance is very RNGish.

We found the fight to go a lot smoother having a Paladin healer. Also, I was speccing into imp demo shout and commanding presence, which should not be overlooked for any progression content.

I disagree with pretty much everything this guy just said.

When I tanked Algalon25 at first it was actually with gear levels slightly lower than your since I didn't have any 245 gear, ToC normal was still in week 2 when we killed him and I hadn't seen any drops yet. We used a pally tank and me, and yes it was harder to keep me up, and what we did was change the strat... I'll get to that later.

Your speccing/gemming/etc/enchanting seems damn near flawless with the exception of gloves/shield. I'd recommend 18 stam to shield and 240 armor to gloves (leatherworking thing).

The main difference between pallies and warriors in relation to this fight is 2 fold: 1) pallies typically have more stam and 2) pallies holy shield works differently from our shield block. The uptime on it is pretty high, but not 100% since algalon hits fast enough that it can fall off before its refreshed.

What we did is switch who tanks first. I tank first, paladin tanks second. The reason for this is that healing the second tank is typically harder. The raid healing requirements are more intense tanks can take damage from the constellations too.

For me one of the biggest difference makers was the use of shield block. Often times when we do the tank swap I'll be picking up algalon right as the first comsic smash is going off. I use this time to hit shield block, so I tank significantly decreased damage while picking up alg and also if healers have to move for cosmic smash. A lot of times I'll even use another cooldown in conjuction with thus such as trinket, enraged regen, or last stand.

I would also strongly recommend a pally healer. Basically you need 2 tank healers and 1 raid healer (the druid). But ya, your pally tank definitely out gears you. Imo have you tank first and the pally tank second, be sure to time cooldowns well. Pallies have the benefit of lots of their cooldowns (AD for example, not just the proc the damage reduction too, and that holyshield has a much higher uptime than shield block) are more passive and reactive rather than warrior cooldowns that we have to use proactively.

As far as demo/commanding presence goes, your paladin should have vindication which covers that, you lose too much picking up commanding presence imo. We typically have a fury warrior that has it anyways, but keeping up TClap is never a bad thing.

Dreadhauser
10-22-2009, 08:34 AM
Thanks for the input. I'm still a bit concerned at how drastically different our damage intake was, but a revision of strat may be all that's needed.

Fledern
10-23-2009, 07:14 AM
We ran with a warrior (me) / pala combo too.

The thing you have to take note of is how you'll handle the bigbangs. Somebody has to stay out to take it. If you have a shadowpriest that's great but if you dont, one of you tanks will have to do it.

Paladins have Ardent Defender which allows them to survive bigbang. Which is why we had our pala tank the first 2 punches and me the rest + last phase. If you're going to tank the bangs, you'll need to reserve your shieldwall for that + you'll need an external cooldown as it wont be up before the next one. Guardian Spirit is great for this.

I cant emphasize the importance of attackpower reduction and thunderclap. Your pala has vindication thus he has AP reduction up constantly and without effort while he's tanking. If you're doing things right, he's probably kiting constellations while you are tanking which means as soon as his vindication falls off, if you havent been keeping up demo shout your damage intake will spike up. Since Algalon is a fast hitter, the usual small gaps you can get by with on any other boss doesnt apply here - you WILL take a large hit if you're not careful about your refreshes.

Yes, this is the only boss our healers said healing me was noticably harder than our pala tank (and i outgeared him). They need to be aware of this and be prepared on tank switches. There's only so much you can do - the rest of your party has to compensate. Make sure you go in with a balanced raid too, that can make a lot of difference. You want all buff you can get, you just cant go with "tank+healers+dps, count 10, lets go".

Really dont chain cooldowns. If you can only survive by chaining cooldowns you wont get him down. The fight is 6 minutes long, nobody has enough cooldowns to last that long. Laststand & trinkets & pots & healthstones should be panic buttons and you shouldnt be panicking often. If you have low health warning, you will be hearing that a lot. Dont go popping something everytime. Pop one only if your health drops low while your healers are running out of a cosmic smash for example.

Another mistake we made a lot was tanks kiting Algalon to the far side of the raid when melee got a cosmic smash. You can easily run out of range of your healers for a second and that can be fatal. Work with your healers beforehand on how to kite him.

Also, are you really handling your collapsing stars properly? Algalon punch + collapsing star + cosmic smash landing in a small timeframe can lead to unhealable damage. Your pala tank can Ardent Defender out of it - you cant. Your dps needs to time their collapsing star kills with cosmic smashes & phase punches. Good communication is key.

You're well set on defense anyway so go for stam enchant on your shield and the gladiator enchant for your shoulder. (30 stam/15 resi). You have blooddraining on your weapon - that saved my ass way too many times, i love it. Mini argent defender ftw. If you have the crafted ulduar belt lying around in your bank, there is one extra socket on it :) Otherwise, yeah, you're near perfect. During algalon tries, i've thanked myself for putting Tuskarrs on my boots more than once because the last black hole was really far away. You might want to consider that if you find yourself not making it into the dark realm fast enough.