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Gothics
10-20-2009, 07:32 PM
Hi. New to forums and to tanking all together. Right now trying to try dk tanking... kinda different then everything else. with now shield. So looking for some help. been doing heroics easy.. wanna know how my spec is and gear is looking and what u guys recommend i can do. and should do for getting better gear. stuck with a couple 200 lvl that i can't find upgrades for. thanks alot... link for my Amory
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Mug%27thol&n=Gothics)

how this spec

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight#eSQRKU4OwIMf6h,YMH3eO,10505



ps. I'm having trouble gaining threat and i lose fast. any suggestion. Please feel free to speak freely

ghromorth
10-20-2009, 09:42 PM
you are failing on: killing machine and frost strike, those 2 abilities are a need in frost tanking remove improved icy talons and icy talons try to hit necrosis or scent of blood

Miagorme
10-20-2009, 10:09 PM
pick up a cookie-cutter frost tank spec. You have too many mistakes in that spec for me to help you in a time-effective manner, so search for a cookie-cutter 2h frost tank spec and you'll find one relatively easily.

Gothics
10-21-2009, 12:51 PM
ok how is this spec.. used some of cookie but put the dnd because i like that for multiple mob agro. let me know

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight#eSQRKU4OwIMf6h,YMH3eO,10505

Esch
10-21-2009, 01:07 PM
ok how is this spec.. used some of cookie but put the dnd because i like that for multiple mob agro. let me know

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight#eSQRKU4OwIMf6h,YMH3eO,10505

That's a better build. Replace the Rune Strike glyph for Howling Blast, and you'll be very capable at AoE tanking, especially in heroics. You could drop the Dark Command glyph, but it may be worthwhile to hold onto it pending gear upgrades. The 'standard' Frost tank glyphs are Frost Strike, Howling Blast & Obliterate, IMO. Rune Strike can replace Howling Blast if you're focusing on single targets, such as raid bosses, but it's not as vital in heroics.

The reasoning for the HB glyph is two-fold. First, it gets Frost Fever up ASAP in pulls to mitigate damage (20% slow effect), which improves your survival on AoE. Second, using the rotation DnD, HB, Blood Boil gives you a fair amount of front loaded threat on AoE packs, which you can back up with Blood Tap -> Blood Boil, then Frost Strikes on the focus target.

Note that once you get a solid lead on threat, the three points in Morbidity are wasted as you are not going to DnD every 15 seconds, but likely once (at the start) of each pull. I think once you try the HB glyph/rotation out, you'll be comfortable moving those points elsewhere.

Note that I found Chilibains very useful, and worked nicely with Glyph'ed HB. The combination slow/snare made it easier to control mobs, and very hard for a mob to 'run away' to attack a range dps/healer before I could taunt/deathgrip/attack it and pull back threat.

Theotherone
10-21-2009, 01:22 PM
My talents are a pretty standard variation on the vanilla Frost. I chose Chill of the Grave for generating runic power over Secent of Blood and I take Death Chill and Morbitity. For Glyphs I use Unbreakable Armor, Howling Blast and DnD. I rely a lot on DnD and use it on every pull - but that's habit. Stay away from Icy Talons and Improved Icy Talons - you're a tank let a Shammy haste buff the raid. Also, Hungering Cold is really PvP, raid bosses are immune to it.

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Alexstrasza&n=Theotherone)

Kurtosis
10-21-2009, 01:32 PM
Just go w/ the standard 15/51/5 (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0EGZhxx0AbIof0buzAo0x:TawM0m) till you get a feel for it, then come back w/ specific questions.

Don't bother with Plague Strike and Blood Plague except on bosses. Use HB to spread Frost Fever, not Pestilence.

You don't need the decreased cd on DnD from Morbidity, just drop DnD at the beginning of the fight, then spam HB and Blood Boil till dead, you'll never lose AoE aggro. Use Deathchill to guarantee a HB crit when you need even more aoe threat.

Frost is very RP-starved, and I couldn't imagine frost tanking w/out both Chill of the Grave and Scent of Blood. If you're spamming FS whenever you have RP for it, and have Rune Strike macro'd into everything, you'll need those two talents to ensure you have the RP for IBF and AMS when needed.

Haste gives you single target threat but more parry-haste dmg. AP on the other hand buffs your autoattacks, special strikes (Oblit, FS), spells (HB), and even diseases, giving you both single and multi-target. Favor AP over haste. (For DK's 1Str = 2AP. 1Agi = 0AP)

Theotherone
10-21-2009, 02:02 PM
Having both Chill of the Grave and Scent of Blood seem a bit of a waste; personally I'd put the three points into Morbidity, and glyph for DnD- I just love DnD. But once you get the basic Frost talenting down, you can play with the three points.

Gothics
10-21-2009, 02:12 PM
Thank u guys so much.. Great so far... keep comments coming. tips anything.. help gearing.. anything.. i'm loving the ideas.. Ty guys.

Fathom
10-21-2009, 02:59 PM
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with a lot of the advice here.

Scent of Blood and Chill of the Grave is probably overkill. Without both you'll sometimes have a few dead cycles when RS has been particularly good to you, but if that's the case you're already high on threat anyway. Getting the 10/20 RP for AMS/IBF is really pretty easy.

Deathchill is an utter waste. It's slightly less of a waste if you're undergeared and tanking heroic 5-man trash, but a minor buff to snap aggro on such a long timer for 1 talent point is a really poor return.

Morbidity, D&D glyph, and pretty much D&D in general is a really poor use of resources for Frost DKs. D&D's main strength for frosties is its duration (everything else is a single spike on at least a limited timer, even if it's just the blood rune timer), it's possible to get caught between HB/Blood Rune cd's for your other aoe threat gen abilities, and D&D can fill the gap nicely for things like Ony phase 2 whelps. But it's very much a situational ability, and not at all worth spending resources to buff (especially not morbidity which wastes half it's value on Death Coil, which should have been taken off your bar once you spec'ed Frost Strike).

HB glyph is again something for 5-man trash pulls, and other things that are only going to live for maybe 20-30s. Anything that's going to last long enough to for people to get into their real dps rotations will live long enough to set up a IT>Pest>HB or D&D>IT>PS>Pest>HB (if you're feeling really nervous) and then going into your normal aoe rotation. It'll tank just fine and free up a whole glyph slot. If your raid dps pulls off you that easily you're either significantly undergeared or they're significantly overgeared enough to know better. There are no serious raid pulls currently in game that are enough of a dps race to require sacrificing a major slot for glyphed HB snap aggro.

Major Glyphs should be FS and two of IT/Oblit/RS. Minors should be Raise Dead, Pestilence, and whatever floats your boat, probably HoW.

Gothics
10-21-2009, 04:17 PM
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with a lot of the advice here.

Scent of Blood and Chill of the Grave is probably overkill. Without both you'll sometimes have a few dead cycles when RS has been particularly good to you, but if that's the case you're already high on threat anyway. Getting the 10/20 RP for AMS/IBF is really pretty easy.

Deathchill is an utter waste. It's slightly less of a waste if you're undergeared and tanking heroic 5-man trash, but a minor buff to snap aggro on such a long timer for 1 talent point is a really poor return.

Morbidity, D&D glyph, and pretty much D&D in general is a really poor use of resources for Frost DKs. D&D's main strength for frosties is its duration (everything else is a single spike on at least a limited timer, even if it's just the blood rune timer), it's possible to get caught between HB/Blood Rune cd's for your other aoe threat gen abilities, and D&D can fill the gap nicely for things like Ony phase 2 whelps. But it's very much a situational ability, and not at all worth spending resources to buff (especially not morbidity which wastes half it's value on Death Coil, which should have been taken off your bar once you spec'ed Frost Strike).

HB glyph is again something for 5-man trash pulls, and other things that are only going to live for maybe 20-30s. Anything that's going to last long enough to for people to get into their real dps rotations will live long enough to set up a IT>Pest>HB or D&D>IT>PS>Pest>HB (if you're feeling really nervous) and then going into your normal aoe rotation. It'll tank just fine and free up a whole glyph slot. If your raid dps pulls off you that easily you're either significantly undergeared or they're significantly overgeared enough to know better. There are no serious raid pulls currently in game that are enough of a dps race to require sacrificing a major slot for glyphed HB snap aggro.

Major Glyphs should be FS and two of IT/Oblit/RS. Minors should be Raise Dead, Pestilence, and whatever floats your boat, probably HoW.

Great advice. I think i'm prob going to run 2 specs. one for heroic trash and what not. and a raid spec more toward single target agro.. U think that be a good idea? i don't really get groups as dps anymore my server. a major shortage in tanks. so idk. do heroics everyday. But raids only 3 or 4 times a week. idk.

Gothics
10-21-2009, 05:53 PM
Anyone else want to give me tips.. post here.. or hit me up on my guy.. or even better....

Hit me up on AIM my screen name is: Skateallday191

Later

Kurtosis
10-21-2009, 09:04 PM
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with a lot of the advice here.
If you think SoB, CotG, DChl, and Morbidity are all wastes, then where do you put all those points instead? I'd be curious to see build without any of them. Something like this (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0EMZhxxxA0Izf0buzAo0x:adwMm0) perhaps?

And OP seems to be focusing on heroic 5mans right now, for which glyphed HB provides simple but powerful aoe threat rotation, as you alluded. I also agree that on raid bosses, it's better to replace it with a single-target threat rune (Oblit, RS, etc), and use the IT+PS+Pest(if needed)+HB rotation.

Yourname
10-22-2009, 09:24 AM
i too am a new aspiring dk tank and read all your posts was helpful. as far as specs i have been playing around with the points. lemme know what you guys think of them.

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=6&tal=0055020000000000000000000000315050003520330023 002031313510050000000000000000000000000000)

with this one i was thinking possible alternatives is maybe in in merci killer and 2 in runic power mastery, from what i have seen on a lot of fourms is merci killer is usless? this may or may not be true, just lookin for some advice here.

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=6&tal=0055020000000000000000000000325050003520330023 002031013510052000000000000000000000000000)

here is another i was thinking. again with the merci killer i could say put 3 points in acc and 1 in runic but depending on replies may not do either.

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=6&tal=0055020000000000000000000000325050003520330013 002031013510050300000000000000000000000000)

with this one i could put just 1 in morbid and 2 in epidemic or would i just be better off doing all 3 in there ?

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=6&tal=0055020000000000000000000000305050503520330103 002031013510050000000000000000000000000000)

with this i took out avoidance and merci killer not really feelin this spec, and a better understanding of usefull ness of runic power and merci killer would also eliminate specs.

sorry for so many minor difference i realize im playing with maybe 5 total points but just tryin to learn more about the class.

thank you all for your time! much appreciated!

Kurtosis
10-22-2009, 12:37 PM
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=6&tal=0055020000000000000000000000315050003520330023 002031313510050000000000000000000000000000)

with this one i was thinking possible alternatives is maybe in in merci killer and 2 in runic power mastery, from what i have seen on a lot of fourms is merci killer is usless? this may or may not be true, just lookin for some advice here.
Skip RPM. As a tank, if you're consistently hitting the 100RP cap, you're doing something wrong, eg not spamming Frost Strike as much as you should, hence not maxing your threat per sec.

RPM is useful for burst in PvP, when you fill up a bar full 130 RP, then spam 3 or 4 Frost Strikes in a row, nice burst damage. But a tank should be using RP almost as soon as you get it, with the caveat that you want to try to save about 20 for IBF when needed.

Merciless Combat isn't useless, but there are usually better places for those points. In the 15/51/5 build (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0EGZhxx0AbIof0buzAo0x:Taw0Mm) it's the best available filler to open up further tiers. In some fights it helps you keep threat during the last 35% of the boss's health, when dps are going all out to burn it down and finish the fight. But it's not required.

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=6&tal=0055020000000000000000000000325050003520330023 002031013510052000000000000000000000000000)

here is another i was thinking. again with the merci killer i could say put 3 points in acc and 1 in runic but depending on replies may not do either.
See above. Also, if you Glyph Howling Blast, you don't need Epidmic. The base disease duration is 15s, the HB CD is 8s, unless Rime procs and then it's even shorter. W/ glyphed HB, Frost Fever will get refreshed every 8s at worst, so no need to extend disease durations w/ Epidemic.

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=6&tal=0055020000000000000000000000325050003520330013 002031013510050300000000000000000000000000)

with this one i could put just 1 in morbid and 2 in epidemic or would i just be better off doing all 3 in there ?
I've tanked Frost a long time and have yet to ever need Morbidity. Frost tanks use Frost Strike in place of Death Coil, so 1/2 of Morbidity is useless to us. And the reduced cd on DnD is overkill. 1x DnD + HB spam + BB spam produces so much AoE threat that mobs will stick to you like white on rice as long as you make sure to round them all up first b/f starting your rotations. Others may disagree, you should test both and decide for yourself.

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=6&tal=0055020000000000000000000000305050503520330103 002031013510050000000000000000000000000000)

with this i took out avoidance and merci killer not really feelin this spec, and a better understanding of usefull ness of runic power and merci killer would also eliminate specs.
I just started testing this spec myself, ran H HoL and H CoS w/ it last night. Only two things I can say for sure is that without Scent of Blood I don't have the RP regen to spam Frost Strike anymore like I used to, I actually have to watch my RP and make sure I still have close to 20 available for IBF when necessary. And the party/raid melee haste buff is really nice.

I also tried this version of it (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0EGZhxxxN0Izc0buzAo0x:Taw0Mm), with Scent of Blood instead of Chill of the Grave. According to the comments on wowhead.com about Scent of Blood, the internal cooldown was removed in patch 3.1, and I can confirm that. On trash pulls it was up constantly, as soon as all 3 charges had been used up, it proc'd again. However on single boss fights it was up less frequently and I felt more RP starved. Chill of the Grave seemed to provide more RP on boss fights, and little less on trash pulls, so since I need FS more on boss fights I'm sticking w/ your CotG build instead.

Theotherone
10-22-2009, 02:17 PM
The most important thing to pick up in this discussion, is that once you get the basic Frost spec right, you have points to play with, and we all have our variations. I wouldn't give up Death Chill or Morbidity and some would never take it.

This all said, I can't wait for the patch and single handed Stoneskin Gargoyle, I picked up the tanking swords in Ony and in h ToChampion - that will lead to a whole new world of talenting for DW and I may have to abandon my beloved Morbidity and Death Chill. But isn't this half the fun of the game.

Gothics
10-22-2009, 04:53 PM
The most important thing to pick up in this discussion, is that once you get the basic Frost spec right, you have points to play with, and we all have our variations. I wouldn't give up Death Chill or Morbidity and some would never take it.

This all said, I can't wait for the patch and single handed Stoneskin Gargoyle, I picked up the tanking swords in Ony and in h ToChampion - that will lead to a whole new world of talenting for DW and I may have to abandon my beloved Morbidity and Death Chill. But isn't this half the fun of the game.

agreed with all that

Wars
10-22-2009, 05:01 PM
I'm actually tanking while dual-weilding right now, I can't wait to get rid of my defense gems! I love the DW playstyle!

I'm also among the people whom would never take morbidity in a Frost Spec, actually, I probably would skip morbidity in most specs. Like you said, that's personal preference and what you like to do!

I tanked ONY 10 last night for my first time since 2006 and with DW I destroyed my old threat numbers! I can't even think about going back to 2hand tanking after doing what I did last night while DW, it was just fun as hell!

Gothics
10-22-2009, 06:03 PM
I'm actually tanking while dual-weilding right now, I can't wait to get rid of my defense gems! I love the DW playstyle!

I'm also among the people whom would never take morbidity in a Frost Spec, actually, I probably would skip morbidity in most specs. Like you said, that's personal preference and what you like to do!

I tanked ONY 10 last night for my first time since 2006 and with DW I destroyed my old threat numbers! I can't even think about going back to 2hand tanking after doing what I did last night while DW, it was just fun as hell!

Yeah i'm thinking about going DW once the next patch comes out and they get the 1hand form of Rune of the Stoneskin Gargoyle going to be sick.. going to have to try it out when it happens

Esch
10-23-2009, 10:03 PM
I'm also among the people whom would never take morbidity in a Frost Spec, actually, I probably would skip morbidity in most specs. Like you said, that's personal preference and what you like to do!

Morbidity is rather powerful for Unholy (lots of damage increases there, plus Blight DoT ticks), but threat focused Blood builds with Sudden Doom, Glyph of Death Coil & Morbidity adds up to respectable damage/threat.

I just find Morbidity weakest for Frost builds in general, as Frost Strike is a better RP dump, especially glyphed. Blood/Unholy both use Death Coil for RP, thus benefit notably from Morbidity.