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Midnight
10-15-2009, 03:02 PM
My main spec is Resto druid but my guild needed another tank so I am changing my offspec to Bear Tank. I have looked over lots of other druids and I have gotten most of their tank builds with a few minor adjustments to suit my play style. In my tank gear selfbuffed I have around 37k hp with 41% dodge. Most of my gems are in stam and dodge. you can look me up on armory but I am not always in my tank gear when i get off so chances that u will see my gear are iffy but my name is Aexzix and i am on the whisperwind server alliance side. My question is what is the best way to gem my gear and to hold aggro. I Have a hard time gettting aggro at start of fights and if i am with any high dpsers they can pull mobs away from me fairly easily. I mostly spam swipe on mobs with more than one npc in them and on bosses i spam mangle, maul and farie fire and get 5 stacks of lacerate. Is there anywhere I could go to possibly check my spec or get some advice on better skill rotation and gear gems.

felhoof
10-15-2009, 03:51 PM
You can check out my blog at ThinkTank (http://www.wowthinktank.blogspot.com). That will have some answers. Specifically, check out the ThinkTank: [Druid] Bear FAQ for 3.1 (http://wowthinktank.blogspot.com/2009/04/druid-bear-faq-for-31.html) .

Some quickie things:
stam is almost always the best unless you know that you need something else. For threat, expertise is the best stat. For threat, rotation-wise you should always be mauling, always, no matter what else.

For the start of fights, you can open with mangle/lacerate/berserk/mangle. The lacerate is there to provide a bleed so that maul does more damage, but it's not required. At the start of fights, all attacks should be mauls too. For multi-targets, you should always be mauling and swiping. Always.

Don't always go for 5 stacks of lacerate; some times it's better to just swipe. If your lacerate stack will fall off within a minute, chances are you shouldn't bother with lacerate and you should just swipe instead. The reason you would do lacerate in that situation is so that you can have a bleed to improve your maul.

Liquidska
10-15-2009, 04:00 PM
Blue slots: +30 Stam
Red slots: +20 Agi
Yellow: +10 To all stats (For the first one) and then either +10 Hit/+15 Stam OR +10 Defense/+15 Stam. (Depending on what you actually need, which most likely will be hit for a while)

That's the rule of thumb that I been following for my gems, this only applies if the set bonus is Agi or Stam. If it's anything else then all open gem slots get +30 Stam.

Making a Macro for Mangle, Swipe and Lacerate with the line /use !Maul is also pretty helpful, it will auto que Maul if it is not already que'd. It's really just a time saver, you may rage starve yourself in heroics from time to time but its still worth it.

But... all of this is moot 'cause Felhoof already linked his blog... Read it and be a happy tank.

Midnight
10-15-2009, 04:26 PM
I forgot to note that about my gear. I am hit capped already and my expertise is already at 35 which I believe is also above the cap. And that is just from the gear i have gotten i have not gemmed or enchanted for those two things. And the reason I have all my gems as Stam and Dodge is at first I was told that was the most important things for druid tanks. But now i have had a couple of people tell me that Agility is more important than dodge because agility boosts attackpower, critchance and dogde and the first two help generate more threat. So now i am trying to find out if I need to change my gems to agility stam gems or leavei it how it is and work on better skill rotation.

felhoof
10-15-2009, 04:30 PM
Agility is also better of a boost than dodge is for boosting avoidance. Never, ever gem dodge.

Expertise post dodge-cap is still one of the best threat skills you can have. Removing parries is nice for mitigation, but even without that it's nice because you do more damage - and thanks to the bad scaling druids have, the best way to increase threat is to get closer to the hit/exp caps.

Midnight
10-15-2009, 04:43 PM
I looked at your post felhoof and the thinktank spot. That helped me a lot with my skill rotation. It was mostly the skill rotation I was using. I was not useing faerie fire as much as i should of i guess. I guess I will switch out my dodge gems for agility gems. Also I was just using all my gems as purple gems because they tend to be cheaper than the red or blue ones. I will get all of them +10 agility +15 Stam. Is there anything wrong with that thinking or in other words is it better to just get the red gems for red slots and blue gems for blue slots?. Also what is the dodge cap? Also for the weapon enchant. It looked like that thinktank was pretty old and had mongoose enchant for the weapon. Right now I have the weapon enchant of 110 attack power or somewhere around there. Should i go ahead and get the mongoose enchant for that instead? Also what is a good amount of HP I should be shooting for. I having 37k hp selfbuffed good or do I really need a lot more to be doing 10/25 man raids. I always have more hp than pally or wars i see but I know that is mostly because Druids are designed differently so I cant judge off of them.

felhoof
10-15-2009, 05:00 PM
In general, my recommendation is the same as liquidska, though I'm starting to favor more expertise in red sockets over agility just because there's so little of it on higher-end gear. I wouldn't recommend specifically gemming to match sockets unless the bonus is good.

The dodge cap is 75%. You won't be reaching it.

The weapon enchant recommendation is current; mongoose is the best tanking weapon enchant overall for bears. (point of fact, bears got zero use out of mongoose until wotlk/3.02 hit). It's up to you whether or not you get it, but it's very good, and certainly better than 110 AP.

As to how much stamina you need and have...that's really up to your raid. 37k in caster form is plenty. 37k in bear form, unbuffed, is probably okay for doing normal 10-man and 25-man, though it's a bit light for the latter. Really, this is a question for the people you run with, not me.

Tygorl
10-15-2009, 05:39 PM
I'm assuming that's 37k in bear, since you said your dodge is 41%, but you haven't mentioned what it is you'll be tanking, (or OT'ing) so it makes it a little hard to advise if you need more hp or not. Definitely change the red gems to agility, as mentioned above never gem for dodge - agility also gives you armor & crit so is by far more value to a bear. Sadly mongoose is still our best tanking enchant. From my last reading on the topic our yellow gem bis is stam/def, and all the toc gear has a ridiculous amount of yellow gems so I'm sitting around 450 def currently as I'm hit/exp soft capped from gear alone, def is still not a bad stat for bears & you could probably use the extra hp if you're running 25's.

If you're tanking a boss I'd say let rip with beserk/maul spam first up for that immediate lead on any aggro mad dps, glyphed maul/swipe spam is priceless for tanking trash if you're still running instances with trash in them of course.

Midnight
10-15-2009, 09:14 PM
Yes the 37k was in bear. I went ahead and changed all my dodge or dodge/stam gems to agility and agility/stam gems. It seems my dodge went up a bit after that. My attack power is sill just a little over 5k though. I My gear is somewhat high with a gearscore of over 4600 with the gearscore addon. should that be a lot higher or is that about right. My armor is also up to 29k. with my dodge up to 41.49%

Also is there an expertise cap. I thought once you hit the cap in expertise where they cant parry you any more that you didnt need to get any higher exp.

felhoof
10-16-2009, 08:31 AM
Yes, there is an expertise cap. It's 14% removed, or 56 total expertise skill. You're not anywhere near that, so until you reach it and are hit-capped it remains your best stat to increase for threat.

I do not and will not ever use gearscore. It's meaningless to me and tells me nothing.

Again, I don't know what you're running to tell you whether or not what you have is enough. Progression guilds have killed Heroic Anub'arak in 25 with less-geared bears than you, but that's probably not your guild.

Bludzooka
10-16-2009, 01:31 PM
Not sure it's worth changing now but 30 stam 15 resil is nice shoulder enchant and relatively cheap only 10k honor.

Midnight
10-20-2009, 02:53 PM
I have a better shoulder enchant that has stam and dodge i believe. Yea my guild is progression but not very high at it. Thanks a lot felhoof I did the changes you suggested and Held agro a lot better. My attack power is still only at around 5.2k in bear form. I have switched all my gems to be agility and stam gems and I am right at 38k hp self buffed in bear form. My guild is currently working on 10 man toc and have 10 ony on farm as well as 10 voa on farm. We are also working on 10 ulduar and are farming the first half of it but keep reseting each week to keep gearing up the rest of the guild. Judging from that would I be well enough geared to tank everythign we are currently at. Also is it better to go for expertise / stam gems over Agility /Stam gems? Same question goes with Armor Pen / Stam Gems. I always thought those were for more dps than tanking but from the way it sounds i might of been wrong on that.

Midnight
10-27-2009, 02:45 PM
I was Also wondering if Infected Wounds worked on bosses. I might have the name wrong of the talent but it is the one most of the way down in feral. It decreases movement speed and attack speed of the target that it gets applied on. I was mainly wondering if it was something i wanted to spec into as a tank mainly for the decreased attack speed?

Viridios
10-27-2009, 03:08 PM
I was Also wondering if Infected Wounds worked on bosses. I might have the name wrong of the talent but it is the one most of the way down in feral. It decreases movement speed and attack speed of the target that it gets applied on. I was mainly wondering if it was something i wanted to spec into as a tank mainly for the decreased attack speed?

It does, and unless another tank is applying it you will want it for any hardmode or progression fight. For a fight that you and your guild can do easily, it probably isn't needed.

It's seriously important for Gormok, particularly hardmode. Auriaya, on the other hand, it's pretty meh for.

Midnight
10-27-2009, 04:30 PM
Thanks viridios

Bludzooka
11-02-2009, 09:29 AM
Your shoulder enchant has dodge and def, 30 stam 15 resil is better than the Sons of Hodir, and it's not that expensive to replace just 10k honor you can get that shooting cannons in Wintergrasp imo.