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Aliena
10-11-2009, 03:54 PM
Hello and welcome to the Tankspot Holy Priest Guide! My name is Aliena, and in this guide I'll cover everything you need to know about holy priest talents, gearing choices, gemming and basic spell usage and rotations.

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This guide is up to date as of patch 4.0.3., and some info may become irrelevant or even false in the future.

Priests are the only class capable of healing that has not one, but two talent trees dedicated to healing. Currently, discipline priests can adapt to fill any role and have strong prevention spells while holy priests mostly fill the niche of raid healers. For that, we have a wide array of tools, but the healing spells you'll most commonly use are:

* Chakra
* Prayer of Mending
* Prayer of Healing
* Circle of Healing
* Lightwell
* Heal
* Greater Heal
* Holy Word: Serenity/Sanctuary
* Guardian Spirit
* Life Grip
* Divine Hymn
* Hymn of Hope
* Inner Fire

Those should have spots on your main action bar and be easily accessible. Less commonly used but good to keep keybound and memorized are:

* Renew
* Binding Heal
* Flash Heal
* Power Word: Shield
* Desperate Prayer
* Inner Will


It is worth mentioning that Renew, Binding Heal and Flash Heal are very fast healing spells that provide a lot of throughput quickly, but they will drain your mana pool very fast and as such should only be used in emergencies. Keeping a renew on a tank when you're mostly tank healing is the exception - especially when you're in Heal Chakra, this provides a lot of extra over-time healing without you having to re-apply it.

The game mechanics have changed a lot from Wrath. Blanket-healing (a term used to describe the steady application of HoTs to counter bosses' raid-wide aura damage) is a thing of the past. No current bosses have aura mechanics, instead you're presented with big burst damage that typically gives you a longer time frame to heal your group members back up. This encourages slower, more efficient heals such as the ones mentioned in the first tier above, whereas the fast heals should be saved for emergencies.

Another thing that slows healing down considerably is the fact that health pools have increased by a lot, while the base healing of healing spells hasn't increased by that much, which results in healers having to heal more to replenish someone's whole health pool.

It is important to remember not to panic when you see someone's health pool drop drastically (unless that someone is the tank, then it's ok to panic) and instead start healing your raid back up in an efficient manner. Mana conservation while keeping your raid alive is key to successful priest healing.

==Spells==

(average gear in this part refers to an in-game average gearscore of roughly 350)

The new mechanic in Cataclysm that really is a niche unique to Holy Priests is Chakra. Chakra seems like a complex mechanic at first glance, but once you get the hang of it it's really easy and fun to use.

Once Chakra is activated (it works much like Inner Focus in that it affects the next compatible spell that you cast and will stay active without duration or triggering a cooldown until you use one of them), you can use it with either Heal, Prayer of Healing&Prayer of Mending or Smite. Depending on which spell you choose to activate Chakra with, you will get a buff to certain spells while your Chakra state is active. The original Chakra cooldown and duration is 30 seconds, but it can be prolonged by talents, so if you make use of that, you don't have to recast it every 30 seconds.

On top of the passive buff, if you take the talent "Revelations" your Holy Word: Chastise will change into a different spell depending on which Chakra state you enable.

When entering Serenity "Heal" Chakra state, your direct healing spells such as Heal, Flash Heal and Greater Heal will have 10% additional crit chance and casting them will refresh the Renew duration provided Renew has been cast on the target. The "Heal" Chakra state will enable Holy Word: Serenity, which is an instant but relatively small heal that also increases your critical strike chance on that target by 25% for 6 seconds. This Chakra state will be your bread and butter spell in 5-man instances, heroics and quite a few 10-man raids.

When entering Sanctuary "Prayer of Healing" Chakra state, all of your AoE healing spells will heal for 10% more and your Circle of Healing cooldown is reduced by 2 seconds (from 10 seconds down to 8). The "Prayer of Healing" Chakra state will enable Holy Word: Sanctuary, which is a targetable AoE heal that heals each person within it for roughly ~600-900 health every 2 seconds for 18 seconds (9 ticks). The healing effect is reduced if more than 6 targets benefit from Sanctuary.

Prayer of Mending is an amazing spell that no other class currently has an equivalent to. Once used on a target, it'll take effect once that target takes damage and after healing it, will bounce to another raid member in range. Prayer of Mending has 5 charges and will bounce until either its charges run out or the current target does not take damage within thirty seconds. it's on a 10-second cooldown and should be used on cooldown on a tank or someone else that will predictably take frequent damage. With average gear (ilvl350), it heals for about 6000 on a non-crit and 8000+ on a crit.

Prayer of Healing is a party-wide AoE healing spell with a 2.5-second cast time and a 40 yard range. This will be one of your most-used AoE healing tools and also one of your most mana-efficient AoE heals. With average gear it heals for about 8000 on non-crit and 11500+ on a crit. This should be used whenever whole parties are taking big chunks of damage, especially if said damage is predictable and you can start casting PoH before the actual damage happens. As a fun little comparison, it costs less mana to cast than Flash Heal.

Circle of Healing is a very potent smart AoE healing spell that affects 5 or up to 6 targets if glyphed, with average gear heals each target for about 4000 non-crit and 5500-6500 on crit and has a 10 second cooldown timer. Circle of Healing should be used whenever 3 or more targets in the same general area take damage. Since it's a smart heal, you're not able to pick who it's going to heal, but it'll pick the 5 (or 6) lowest health raid members within 18 yards of the target. CoH is an instant spell so it's excellent to use while moving around.

Lightwell, frowned upon by priests and laughed at by everyone else for many expansions, has completely changed its tune. Lightwell is your highest healing-per-mana spell and will save many, MANY lives - if only you can get people to click it. However, this is a constant work-in-progress by priests and raid leaders the world over, and many people have become accustomed to clicking the damn lightwell at this point. Keep the good work up! This is a group effort. With average gear, Lightwell will heal for about 6400 and tick three times for a total of roughly ~19200 health. Lightwell can be placed before a fight even starts, which means you're able to recover the mana spent on it before a pull, essentially making it free healing. Lightwell lasts for 10 charges (15 glyphed) or 3 minutes.

Heal is your new bread-and-butter single target healing spell. Most trivial AoE and tank damage can be healed up over time by just using Heal. It is incredibly mana efficient, and you will basically find yourself gaining mana while using it provided you have a few raid buffs. Don't forget to activate the corresponding Chakra state when you know you're going to be using a lot of direct healing spells. Heal has a 3 second cast time (2.5 with talents) and with average gear heals for about 8000 on a non-crit and 12000 on a crit.

Greater Heal will be a huge help to you when you find yourself as tank healer, or even just when you're helping out with tank healing or a random raid member takes a large single target damage spike, such as Magmatron's Acquiring Target ability. Greater Heal has a 3 second cast time (2.5 with talents) and with average gear heals for about 22000 on a non-crit and 32000 on a crit.

Holy Word: Serenity and Sanctuary become active when you activate the corresponding Chakra state. Serenity is most useful while tank healing as it provides a rather small instant heal but also increases your critical strike chance on that target by 25% for 6 seconds. Line up a few Greater Heals after Serenity to hopefully heal your tank back up quickly.

Sanctuary is most useful when your entire raid is stacked up in one spot and taking AoE damage. It is not recommended to use Sanctuary when less than 6 people are grouped up and even then it is a toss-up, as it has a very hefty mana cost of roughly 10000. It does however last for 18 seconds and will heal everyone within it for roughly 600 health every 2 seconds (900 on a crit). The healing effect is reduced if more than 6 people are within the Sanctuary.

Guardian Spirit is useful in any situation where you expect someone to have a relatively good chance of dying. Preferably, this is placed on tanks that take a huge dip, but can also save other people that have neglected to get an essential buff (like Grounded/Levitate on Ascendant Council) or yourself when you've done something dumb. It also increases healing received on the target by 40% for its duration, and as such is a great help in restoring a tank's HP pool. Sadly, its glyph got changed, so now its cooldown is 3 minutes at base value, 2.5 minutes glyphed.

Life Grip is our new toy, and much like Guardian Spirit it can help save people from dying. This is most useful when you catch someone standing in bad stuff on the ground or wish to assist them in kiting. If you have the Talent Body & Soul, using Life Grip on someone will also increase their movement speed for 4 seconds afterward.

Divine Hymn is an extremely potent and smart channeled AoE heal on an 8 minute cooldown timer. This is comparable to a druid's Tranquility spell, except every tick it'll pick the three nearby lowest-health targets to heal regardless of party. It'll tick a total of 4 times on up to three people each time and heals for roughly 9000 non-crit and 13000 on a crit.

Hymn of Hope is also channeled; restores mana to 3 nearby raid members, ticks up to 12 times (total, so up to 4 ticks per person) and increases their maximum mana pool by 15% for 8 seconds. It typically picks the three people with the lowest mana, which means you won't neccesarily be one of its targets. However, if you use it while your mana pool is extremely low, you're likely to receive some mana back from it. In any case, it's a great mana restoration tool for your raid members and they'll most likely be thankful no matter when you use it.

Inner Fire will be your most-used buff of choice. It greatly increases your armor value but most importantly increases your spell power by 532. This effect lasts for 30 minutes or until cancelled.

Renew should be used on tanks whenever you find yourself tank healing in Heal chakra. However, it has lost most of its appeal in raid healing as renew spam is just not sustainable anymore. You will find yourself running out of mana constantly if you try. Try to keep usage of Renew to tank healing and as a filler spell while moving. With average gear, Renew heals for about 2800 on a non-crit and 4200 on a crit.

Binding Heal can be used whenever you take damage at the same time as another person AND this damage needs to be healed quickly. Binding Heal has a 1.5 second cast and the same mana cost as Flash Heal and heals for slightly less on the individual targets, but since it does heal two people at the same time, it's more efficient to use than Flash Heal. Neither of them should be used outside of an emergency situation, though. With average gear, Binding Heal heals for roughly 13000 on a non-crit and 16000 on a crit.

Flash Heal has become very expensive to cast in patch 4.0.1. As trade-off, it now heals for signficantly more, about 16000 on a non-crit and 23000 on a crit. It also has a 1.5 second cast time and should be reserved for extreme emergencies as it will quickly drain your mana pool.


Power Word: Shield is an amazing tool made awesome by talents for disc priests that loses a lot of value for holy priests, but useful for two reasons: Firstly, if you have taken the talent Body and Soul, it becomes situationally useful (for instance, to give a person running a debuff out of the raid a speed buff) and secondly, it is an instant spell so you can cast it while running. Mind you that disc priests will not be very happy with you if you decide to randomly shield people, since it places a weakened soul debuff on the target that prevents re-application of Power Word: Shield for 15 seconds.

Desperate Prayer is a rather weak instant self-heal with a 2-minute cooldown that can be used as an emergency heal when you see your own health dipping low quickly, or when you know you're about to take an inevitable chunk of damage. It heals for about 10000 on a non-crit with average gear and 13000 on a crit.

Inner Will is the other self-buff you can choose to use instead of Inner Fire. Inner Will will give you a passive 10% movement speed increase and will reduce the cost of your instant cast spells by 15%. However, the movement speed increase does not stack with boots- or head enchants and the only instant cast spells you'll use on a regular basis for regular raiding are Circle of Healing and Prayer of Mending, so Inner Fire will be the better choice in most cases.

That covers just about any healing spell you'll ever need to know about for raiding purposes.

==Spec==

Fairly common specs:
6/32/3 (25-man throughput)
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#bchZfhMrRkrkcdoh

6/33/2 (10-man mana efficiency)
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#bchZfhrrRorkcdo0b

3/33/5 (Darkness instead of Twin Disciplines)
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#b0hZfhrrRorkcdohb:oVZ0


Next, let's talk specs. With the talent spec consolidation that was implemented in 4.0.1, there is not much wiggle room. You HAVE to spec 31 points into holy before you can touch other trees. There are a total of 36 points in the holy tree, so you can skip up to 5 of them. I'll go over the staple talents that you really should have in your spec.

In the first tier we have Improved Renew, Empowered Healing and Divine Fury. Empowered Healing and Divine Fury are no-brainers that every priest should have in their spec. Improved Renew is still a good talent and one you should pick up, even if you're not using Renew much right now.

In the second tier we have Desperate Prayer, Surge of Light and Inspiration. Desperate Prayer is situational, but if you think you can get used to it and will use it in situations where your life is in danger, it's worth spending the talent point. If you won't use it, skip it. Surge of Light now gives you a 6% chance to trigger an instant, free Flash Heal when you use Smite or Heal. However, in 25-man content, you'll rarely find yourself using Heal, and statistically speaking, a Surge will only trigger on every 17th cast, so you should mostly spec into it if you do 5- and 10-man content. Inspiration is a no-brainer, do take it.

The third tier greets you with Divine Touch, Holy Concentration and Lightwell and Tome of Light. Lightwell and Holy Concentration are staple talents, definitely take those. Tome of Light is useful especially if you find yourself utilizing a lot of Heal Chakra, and Divine Touch is a good option in lieu of much choice.

In tier 4 you will find Rapid Renewal, Spirit of Redemption and Serendipity. Spirit of Redemption no longer carries its 5% spirit component, but can still occasionally be useful in 5-man and raiding content. If you prefer Surge of Light or Desperate Prayer instead of SoR, take either of those instead. Serendipity now is activated by Flash- and Binding Heal and as such you won't get quite as much use out of it as you used to, but it is still nice to have in emergency situations to heal both a tank and/or a party back up quickly.

Tier 5 awaits with Body and Soul, Chakra, Revelations and Blessed Resilience. Blessed Resilience is now basically a pure PVP talent, don't bother taking it. Chakra and Revelations are staple talents, pick up both. Body and Soul is increasingly useful in many raid and instance situations and now also gives a speed boost after using Leap of Faith (Life Grip).

Tier 6 has Test of Faith, State of Mind and Circle of Healing. Circle of Healing and Test of Faith are staple talents, take them. State of Mind is very convenient and one of the better talents to spec into.

Lastly, we have our final 31-point talent, Guardian Spirit. Although its usage is occasional, it's an incredibly powerful tool that should not be missing in any holy priest's toolbox. Sometimes you'll be assigned to use it in a cooldown chain, other times you'll be able to use it at your discretion when a tank or another raid member is close to death. Either way, it ends up being useful in many situations. Learn to love and use it!

Now, for the other trees - this is actually where the biggest spec variety awaits you. When you look at the first tier of both the discipline and the shadow trees, you'll find 4 worthwhile talents to take. Keep in mind that you have at most 10 points to spend, though.

The Discipline tree has Twin Disciplines and Mental Agility, whereas the Shadow tree sports Darkness and Veiled Shadows. Twin Disciplines is a direct 6% healing increase and hence should be a no-brainer. If you use a lot of instant cast spells but suffer from mana issues, Mental Agility might be worthwhile for you. On the other hand, Darkness in the Shadow tree gives you a 3% increase in spell haste and Veiled Shadows decreases the cooldown of your Shadowfiend by 1 minute. Twin Disciplines and Darkness are direct HPS increases, so if you don't have mana issues you're best off spending your points here. However, if you do have mana issues, you may instead opt for Twin Disciplines and Mental Agility. If you really cannot sustain your mana throughout a fight, Mental Agility and Veiled Shadows might be something to try out.

This also goes for glyphs. With 4.0.1, the glyph system got a huge makeover. We now have three tiers of glyphs - Prime, Major and Minor. Prime Glyphs, according to Blizzard, are meant to be direct performance increases, while Major Glyphs are more situational and Minor Glyphs are for fun and convenience.

There are a total of four useful Prime Holy Priest Glyphs that you should pick up.

* Glyph of Prayer of Healing
* Glyph of Guardian Spirit
* Glyph of Lightwell
* Glyph of Renew

While Glyph of Flash Heal and Glyph of Renew are also Prime Glyphs, neither of them bring a performance boost in the currently widely accepted raid style. However, if you've managed the miracle of making Renew sustainable and find it gets a lot of use (or the people you play with still don't understand the concept of Lightwell), you may wish to exchange the Lighwell or GS glyphs for Renew. For most priests, this is not recommended.

As far as Major Glyphs goes, you have a little more wiggle room.

* Glyph of Circle of Healing
* Glyph of Dispel Magic
* Glyph of Mass Dispel
* Glyph of Psychic Scream
* Glyph of Fade
* Glyph of Holy Nova
* Glyph of Spirit of Redemption

These are all Major Glyphs you may want to look at and evaluate. Glyph of Circle of Healing should be a staple in any holy priest's setup. Glyph of Dispel Magic provides a small healing boost, while Glyph of Mass Dispel brings your Mass Dispel cast time to 0.5 seconds. To me, these seem to be the most valuable in any given situation, but if you do not make use of either type of Dispel much, you may instead choose to opt for Glyph of Holy Nova or Spirit of Redemption. One lets you pretend you didn't just die for 6 seconds longer, the other caps your Holy Nova at a 1 second global cooldown without any additional haste. Fade/Psychic Scream are situational, but may prove useful in some boss encounters.

Minor Glyphs will not directly affect your throughput or efficiency, but Glyph of Levitate and Glyph of Fortitude are usually good picks for convenience. Also, Glyph of Shadowfiend is moderately useful if you tend to summon the bugger in the wrong moment and it dies instantly to some sort of annoying AoE.

==Gearing, what to aim for==

As one of three cloth caster classes, you'll always face gear competition. It's all the more important to know what you want and look for in gear. Lots of stats are good for us, I'll list them in the order of how I rate their importance.

* Intellect
* Mastery
* Haste
* Spirit
* Crit
* Stamina

Intellect, since 4.0.1, now grants you spellpower and hence replaces spellpower as the easiest and most straightforward throughput stat. The more Intellect, the bigger your heals. On top of that, intellect increases your mana pool and hence affects how much mana you regenerate from replenishment, shadowfiend and hymn of hope; it gives you critical strike rating (around 150 Intellect equal 1% critical strike rate) and slightly increases your mana regen (this function is tied in with spirit). In short, it's an incredibly beneficial stat.

Mastery is a new mechanic implemented in Cataclysm. Mastery does something different for every class and spec. For holy priests, Mastery causes Echo of Light, which means that any direct healing spell you cast puts a HoT on the target for 6 seconds. This HoT heals for a percentage of the original heal and the percentage is based on your mastery rating. The base rate with 0 mastery is an 8% HoT, and with each additional full point of Mastery (179.3 Mastery Rating), the percentage increases by 1.25%. Echo of Light currently accounts for about 9% of my total healing over a fight and is a direct throughput increase.

Haste is still a good throughput stat, but has lost a lot of its value since we now have to watch our mana more and use less instant cast spells. Haste gives you faster heals, but on the flip side it also makes you spend mana faster. Currently, around 12.5% haste is sufficient for most priests (128 Haste Rating equals 1% Haste). Past that number, you will probably find it more useful to stack mastery. For more math-y information on Haste, I recommend the Elitist Jerks thread that is constantly updated with Theorycraft. http://elitistjerks.com/f77/t110245-cataclysm_holy_priest_compendium/

Spirit is now a direct mana regen increase and not much else. You should make sure that most if not all of your gear has spirit as a stat to ensure you don't run out of mana during a fight, but do not gem or enchant for it unless there is no better option.

Critical Strike Rating does what it says it does - it gives you increased chance to crit on your spells, whether they're damage or healing spells. However, as throughput increase it is fairly unreliable, so it's low on your priority list. If you pick up a piece that has crit rating and haste rating on it (but no spirit), you should consider reforging some of the crit chance into either haste or mastery rating.

As for Stamina... we all need it. Stamina automatically goes up as your gear level increases. Unless your gear level is way below the level of content you're doing, you'll pretty much always have enough of it.

==Enchants and Gemming==

Holy priest enchants are very straightforward. I'll list what's generally considered the best choice for each slot.

Head: Arcanum of Hyjal, the 60 Intellect/35 Critical Strike Rating enchant, available at the Hyjal Quartermaster at Revered Reputation would be the best choice.

Shoulder: Greater Inscription of the Charged Lodestone, which adds 50 Intellect and 25 Haste Rating to a shoulder slot and is available at the Therazane Quartermaster at Exalted Reputation. Your second best bet is the Lesser Inscription of Charged Lodestone, available at the same place at Honored Reputation. Obviously this does not apply if you're a Scribe.

Back: Darkglow Embroidery for a tailor if you need additional regen, Lightweave if you want throughput, 50 INT otherwise.

Chest: 20 to all Stats or 40 Spirit would be your best bets.

Wrists: You have the choice of 50 Spirit or 50 Haste here, depending on whether you want additional Regen or Throughput.

Weapon: Heartsong and Power Torrent are both good choice. Power Torrent will occasionally proc an INT buff while casting, Heartsong will occasionally proc a spirit buff. Quote (and credit) from EJ on Weapon enchants:

For Holy, Heartsong will net about 40-50 more mp5 than Power Torrent. Timing shadowfiend with a PT proc will increase the regen benefits of that enchant. For Disc it’s much closer, with Heartsong having about 10 mp5 advantage over PT. So with good shadowfiend management PT could be nearly equal for regen.Hands: 50 Mastery and 50 Haste are both acceptable enchants.

Legs: Powerful Ghostly Spellthread will give you 95 Intellect and 55 spirit.

Feet: Lavawalker which adds 35 Mastery and a slight run speed increase or alternatively 50 Haste or 50 Mastery.

As far as gemming goes, there are different ways to gem your character. You can stack just one stat that you're lacking or that you favor and neglect all others or you can choose to gem for socket bonuses.

I personally prefer to gem for socket bonuses using Brilliant Inferno Rubies (40 INT), Reckless (20 Haste, 20 INT) or Artful (20 Mastery, 20 INT) Ember Topaz and Purified Demonseyes (20 INT, 20 Spirit). That way, I stack up on Haste/Mastery, Intellect and Spirit, the stats that are most important for my playing style. Alternatively, you might prefer to gem all Brilliant Inferno Rubies. This will likely be mathed out in the near future, so stay tuned.

There are two meta gems that you may find interesting. Widely considered as the best choice for healers is the Ember Shadowspirit Diamond, which gives you 54 Intellect and 2% maximum mana.

Another slightly less valid choice would be the Revitalizing Shadowspirit Diamond, which gives you 54 Spirit and 3% increased critical healing effect. Early testing points to the Ember Diamond resulting in more throughput.

That about covers the basics of successful priesting. Thanks for reading!

Bloodwraith
10-11-2009, 04:25 PM
Sticky! :D

Ciderhelm
10-11-2009, 04:48 PM
You beat me to stickying this and it makes me sad. Movies uploading!

Bloodwraith
10-11-2009, 07:03 PM
You beat me to stickying this and it makes me sad. Movies uploading!

<3

Chamenas
10-11-2009, 09:21 PM
Uploading to the server I hope?

Thaak
10-11-2009, 09:32 PM
Excellent guide. My alt priest is disc, so its nice to see how the other side lives.

Since this covers some very basic elements maybe you could add in a section about correctly using mana-regen tools. Mainly things like hitting hymn of hope while manatide is down and correct times for using shadowfiend(i.e. instead of throwing it out 2 seconds before dreadscale is downed, wait until icehowl comes out, so it isn't wasted by having nothing to attack).


p.s. I want a dragon kite.

Giliandrix
10-12-2009, 03:09 AM
Gonna respec my priest from Disc to Holy now...Amazing Guide!

Thanks Aliena!!

Abolita
10-12-2009, 04:51 AM
You beat me to stickying this and it makes me sad. Movies uploading!

Was just about to ask if we would be getting this in HD. Thanks for the upload, and thanks for the great guide Aliena!

Curious, would you not recommend getting Springy Arachnoweave - Spell - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=63765) if you are an engineer?

Ciderhelm
10-12-2009, 05:05 AM
It's up for donor downloads atm!

Edgar
10-12-2009, 05:26 AM
I was waiting for this, time to respec my Disc PVP dual to Holy and gear up :)

Squeegiemama
10-13-2009, 01:02 AM
Great guide.

Thanks Aliena!

elunesbuddy
10-13-2009, 08:33 AM
Aliena, thanks for the great guide.
Do you use an add-on, specifically or not, to watch your serependity stacks? or something that warns you that you have 3 stacks ready?
Thanks

gorignak64850
10-13-2009, 09:33 AM
Can you pls post the Disc spec that you use i am wondering what im doing wrong.....as some vids ive seen your Disc Spec as Top healing done......if you have time that is i know im not only one,....i hope lol. doesnt have to be this elaborate just an edit maybe?

Priestneff
10-13-2009, 09:56 AM
A very nice Basic Guide, I will have to post a link for all the wanna-bee alts leveling in my Guild.

elunesbuddy
10-13-2009, 02:14 PM
I had another question for Aliena:
You said Intellect is the most important stat as it contributes to many things (Stats, talents, procs..)
Do you think a Holy Priest in ToC25 / H. ToC10 gear should wear any intellect trinket in a common set?

defiancex
10-14-2009, 04:35 AM
Hey Aliena, watching you heal in your videos, and listening to you explain some of the points in holy actually sound like fun, healing i could enjoy, my main is a paladin and i hate healing on him basically, not many fun healing abilities i guess.

Anyway, i lvled my priest to about 15, does it pick up in pace once you get a few more lvls? Also do you have any suggestions about which spec to lvl as, i know many say shadow, but right now its so slow, it feels like i am watching paint dry.

Gretchin
10-14-2009, 05:30 AM
Hey Aliena, watching you heal in your videos, and listening to you explain some of the points in holy actually sound like fun, healing i could enjoy, my main is a paladin and i hate healing on him basically, not many fun healing abilities i guess.

Anyway, i lvled my priest to about 15, does it pick up in pace once you get a few more lvls? Also do you have any suggestions about which spec to lvl as, i know many say shadow, but right now its so slow, it feels like i am watching paint dry.

I've read that holy is the most efficient leveling spec now. Personally I've level one priest to 70 and one to 80, both as shadow, and would pick that again. But I do belive that at least up to level 40 holy builds would be better.

Leveling a Holy priest - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft (http://www.wowwiki.com/Leveling_a_Holy_priest)
[Priest] Solo Leveling Guide (http://www.mmo-champion.com/class-priest/(priest)-solo-leveling-guide/)
[Priest] Solo Leveling Guide (http://www.mmo-champion.com/class-priest/(priest)-solo-leveling-guide/msg1555084/#msg1555084)
[Priest] Solo Leveling Guide (http://www.mmo-champion.com/class-priest/(priest)-solo-leveling-guide/msg1555077/#msg1555077)

Personally I'd level to 40 and then switch to shadow. Because it's laz0rs, pew pew.

And priests are a pain to level in the beginning, but after level 30 it starts to pick up it's speed and at level 40 with shadow form you'll feel pretty mighty. And it's fun. So don't give up quite yet.

Aliena
10-14-2009, 09:23 AM
I do prefer running with an intellect trinket. It came down to spark of hope vs. meteorite crystal to me, and I absolutely prefer the int. I would've liked the trinket from mimiron25, but alas, I never got lucky with that one. If you're very attached to your spark of hope and play well with it though, by all means keep it. :)

As far as leveling goes, shadow isn't very viable til you get shadowform. The first 40 levels are a drag but badge gear helps out tremendously.

Brittmari
10-15-2009, 12:35 AM
Gorignak,

You ask what you are doing wrong because you are a disc priest and you see some other disc priests top the healing meters.

Your main problem is you chose the wrong guild. If a disc priest is at the top of the meter, in most cases it is because the dps is avoiding avoidable damage and 90% of the healing needed is tank healing. For example, during the Hodir encounter, a raid healer should be bored through most of the fight, since the only unavoidable damage is Frozen Blows and the occasional top off after a Frost Nova. A disc priest assigned to heal the tank should top the meter every time. If the holy priests in your raid have more total healing done on Hodir, it is because your dps'ers are getting hit by Icicles, getting 4-5 stacks of Biting Cold before they decide to start moving, or don't get on top of the snowpiles before Flash Freeze.

Brittmari
10-15-2009, 12:55 AM
I would like to add a shout-out for Lightweave Embroidery over Darkweave for Tailors, Ember Skyflare Meta over Beaming Earthsiege, and even taking 1 point out of Meditation to put into a throughput or utility talent.

With Shadowfiend, Hymn of Hope, Mana Potions and Arcane Torrent (for Blood Elves) I find that I almost never get close to running out of mana (and I usually don't even use the pots or Hymn). We generally run 6 healers and don't do Heroic or Hard Modes, so it might be different if you run fewer healers. But I'd definitely counsel examining how often you go oom, and if it's almost never, consider some changes to lower regen and bump up throughput.

Delicatesse
10-15-2009, 03:01 AM
If a disc priest is at the top of the meter, in most cases it is because the dps is avoiding avoidable damage and 90% of the healing needed is tank healing.

There are very few encounters like that. Even Hodir is not the best example, the tank damage is pretty low there while the whole raid takes a lot of unavoidable damage during frozen blows + frost novas. Thorim normal mode could be a better example, most raid damage is avoidable there, tanks take most of the hits in both phases.

I was almost always on top with my disc priest when I could raidheal and almost always at the bottom when I had to focus on the tank. Only exception was Algalon, the tank damage is just that brutal there.

On encounters with lots of unavoidable damage (almost all encounters) disc can top pretty easily, just by spamming PWS on the whole raid. Somehow I feel like you didn't see a decent disc priest yet.

thorwan
10-15-2009, 04:29 AM
As Aliena pointed out, leveling a priest is a drag until you get shadowform(i spend 180 emblems on 2 pieces of cloth heirlooms and 2 trinkets which combined grants me 4% of my total mana back each kill,and the heirlooms grants the much desired 20% experience bonus which speeds of the process of leveling abit).

HDEagle71
10-15-2009, 08:09 AM
I have a quick question.

I am trying to help my wife set up her healing we are now 70.

She is Holy speced using Elitist talent spec.

My question is she is having a hard time in normal 5 mans but is that because Holy is for 10 -25 man and she should be Disc spec for 5 man content?

I have never really looked at healing so I am trying to help out is Disc better for 5 man (easier)?

defiancex
10-16-2009, 02:13 PM
Thank you for the info, i will try holy out, if it seems to be too much for me to handle i may just pay some people to run me through lowbie instances and lvl quicker. XP

Another question i wanted to ask Aliena is what is the HuD addon you use, i saw another healer use that and i'm not sure what it is.

montblanclol
10-16-2009, 04:03 PM
I have a quick question.

I am trying to help my wife set up her healing we are now 70.

She is Holy speced using Elitist talent spec.

My question is she is having a hard time in normal 5 mans but is that because Holy is for 10 -25 man and she should be Disc spec for 5 man content?

I have never really looked at healing so I am trying to help out is Disc better for 5 man (easier)?

indeed disc spec is more of a single-target, preventive healing style. holy is more of a reactive - raid-wide damage over time fights. therefore disc makes healing easier for 5mans. typical rotation would be shield on the tank, pom, penance/flash heals.

good luck

on the guide:

it covers pretty much all the basics, provides a nice place to start off. well done!

Brittmari
10-17-2009, 07:59 AM
HDEagle71--

Any decent healing spec from any class should be able to heal 5 mans without too much trouble. Here's a few tips:

1. Get Healbot or Grid/Clique--Healbot is a bit easier to set up but Grid is more customizable. Blizzard UI is terrible for healing. It IS possible to heal without an addon, but why enter your house through the upstairs window when you've got a front door?

2. Prayer of Mending is any priest's best friend--keep it up at all times. In a 5 man, just cast it on the tank whenever it's off cooldown. Don't worry that it hasn't gotten all 5 bounces.

3. Renew has fallen out of favor with a lot of serious raiders, but it works wonders in 5 mans. Healers and dps shouldn't be taking much damage in most 5 man encounters--Renew and Circle of Healing should be more than enough to keep you focused on the tank.

4. Which leads into: Don't be afraid to let a dpser die to keep the tank topped off. It's much easier to finish a boss fight with 1 tank, 1 dps, and 1 healer than it is with 3 dps and a healer. The dpser will invariably try and smack you down for not giving him any heals, so get Recount or another meter/addon which shows you what damage people are taking and learn to read it. More than half the time, if a dpser dies in a 5 man, it's his own fault for pulling aggro/not getting out of the fire/etc.

5. Grow a thick skin. Healers probably take more abuse in the game than any other player. If you can't laugh it off or give it back, go Shadow.

Delicatesse: If you see Disc priests routinely topping Holy priests when both are assigned to raid heals on World of Logs parses which take absorbtions into account, I submit that it is you who hasn't seen a decent Holy priest yet.

defiancex
10-17-2009, 09:33 AM
Thank you for the info, i will try holy out, if it seems to be too much for me to handle i may just pay some people to run me through lowbie instances and lvl quicker. XP

Another question i wanted to ask Aliena is what is the HuD addon you use, i saw another healer use that and i'm not sure what it is.


Well, i answered my own question. XP

A guildmate of mine was suggesting some addons to me earlier today, Poweraura's was one of them, i really like this addon, i used to use ForteXorcist, i deleted that as soon as i started messing around with Poweraura's. :)

Bovinity
10-17-2009, 09:43 AM
So for a healer that primarily does tank healing, would you suggest simply speccing Disc and leaving Holy for raid healing duties, or is Holy at least somewhat comparable for tank healing?

I ask because I'm the tanking fanatic of our couple, my wife is the healing fanatic. She insists on healing me all the time, but she also loves being holy and it seems like she's always at the bottom of the healing meters and catching flak from people for it. With GHeal sounding like such garbage and Disc being the recognized "tank heal" spec, should I just talk her into Disc? =D

Oddly
10-17-2009, 01:49 PM
Thanks for a terrific guide, Aliena. Reading your thoughts on stat preferences, gearing and gemming and enchanting, and play style makes me think about how I play, and question what I think I know. It's the diversity of the class and spec, and the many ways to play it, that make it fun and interesting.

I like, for instance, that you still rank spirit as the third most desirable stat behind intellect and spell power, because I have never been able to agree intuitively that spirit is as worthless as many now seem to think it is.

The second time I read through your guide many of your thoughts and ideas began to sink in and gel, and within a short time your guide has become an integral source for me, to be weighed and balanced with and against other valuable sources, point by point, as I continue in my search for the ever-changing balance of what "feels" right.

Thanks again, and I hope you keep it up to date so I can follow your thoughts.

Oddly

Elvera
10-18-2009, 02:30 AM
Great Guide, Very informative :) Thanks!

Hauby
10-18-2009, 11:44 AM
Hi, i just have one quick question which i think most people could answer for me.

i have always used renew, i have it glyphed to heal more with one less tick, i was wondering why you believe it is better leave it tick one more time and lose the +25% healing done by per tick, i know we lack the Hot's that other classes have(damn druids) but a stronger Hot is better to have then a longer one isnt it?

Hauby
10-18-2009, 12:16 PM
sorry no need to answer she said in the second video, doh!

Seraphia
10-18-2009, 12:41 PM
I have spent most of the last x-pac and all of this one tanking and decided to see about healing, so as to have a better understanding of the current encounters. Thanks for this vid, it was very helpful.

However, I seem to be missing some key points: notably UI. I have watched the H NBE vid and see that Aliena has some addons that would greatly help in healing. Anyone know what they are?

I am pretty sure that she uses grid for her raid frames, but what is the unitframes?

montblanclol
10-18-2009, 10:44 PM
So for a healer that primarily does tank healing, would you suggest simply speccing Disc and leaving Holy for raid healing duties, or is Holy at least somewhat comparable for tank healing?

I ask because I'm the tanking fanatic of our couple, my wife is the healing fanatic. She insists on healing me all the time, but she also loves being holy and it seems like she's always at the bottom of the healing meters and catching flak from people for it. With GHeal sounding like such garbage and Disc being the recognized "tank heal" spec, should I just talk her into Disc? =D

yes, from all the healers out there, Holy Priest is most likely the worse for tank healing. every other healing class/spec can perform this task better than the holy priest.

for tank healing on a priest, disc is the way to go. and nothing else. of course if you raid Holy you're not going disc only for a 5man. you can keep a tank up on a 5man while being holy. you just can't beat a paladin, shaman, disc priest, or a druid, on tank-healing on endgame raiding content.

@Seraphia
"I have watched the H NBE vid and see that Aliena has some addons that would greatly help in healing. Anyone know what they are?"

shes most likely using Power Auras (for the flashing thingies around her). This is an addon that helps you knowing when you have certain buff active. lets say a Surge of Light (gives you a instant-free-noncrit Flash Heal). So, you configure it to show a texture or image on the screen everytime that buff is active. so you don't miss it. It also works the other way around: it can show you when you lack of a buff. lets say Inner Fire. those two are the most common uses for priests with Power Auras. Surge of Light and the lack of Inner Fire.

for buffs seems like Satrina Buffs? its easier to ask her hehe. hard to tell :p. Besides poweraura and grid, the rest of the addons are pretty much down to your own personal taste (BossMods,barmods,Minimap,chat,CDtimers). as long as they get the job done. you'll be ok. Power Auras and Grid, are definitely a must :)

Aliena
10-18-2009, 10:58 PM
Please don't send me PMs about my UI, there's a whoooole thread about it in the UI section that should answer every question!

raskol
10-19-2009, 02:04 AM
Was just about to ask if we would be getting this in HD. Thanks for the upload, and thanks for the great guide Aliena!

Curious, would you not recommend getting Springy Arachnoweave - Spell - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=63765) if you are an engineer?

As a disc priest who is not also a tailor I use this. I use it for holy aswell but if I had two backs I would probably keep a back enchanted with haste for a holy set focusing on haste. I'm not sure I would always use the haste cloak, but it is certainly a lot closer since you don't need to stack sp as holy.

Nicki
10-19-2009, 02:31 AM
I would like to add a shout-out for Lightweave Embroidery over Darkweave for Tailors, Ember Skyflare Meta over Beaming Earthsiege, and even taking 1 point out of Meditation to put into a throughput or utility talent.

With Shadowfiend, Hymn of Hope, Mana Potions and Arcane Torrent (for Blood Elves) I find that I almost never get close to running out of mana (and I usually don't even use the pots or Hymn). We generally run 6 healers and don't do Heroic or Hard Modes, so it might be different if you run fewer healers. But I'd definitely counsel examining how often you go oom, and if it's almost never, consider some changes to lower regen and bump up throughput.

Meditation is such a good talent taking a point out of it is silly...Simple as this is bread and butter priest talenting no spec goes without it.

If you aren't going oom thats good but when everything goes wrong holy can go oom, disc can go oom even when things go right depending on spell useage. Myself I use mana as much as possible, no point ending a fight on 10k mana. Equally no point ooming at 25% which is why I stick too insightful earthsiege.

You also mention you aren't doing hard modes/heroic which really don't test the limits of a player's mana pool.

Thunderheals
10-20-2009, 05:20 PM
I have noticed that i still run out of mana extremely quickly, and im not sure if it's something that usually happens. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

-Thunder

Brittmari
10-21-2009, 07:26 PM
Meditation is such a good talent taking a point out of it is silly...Simple as this is bread and butter priest talenting no spec goes without it.


I really don't think an absolute statement like this is accurate. A lot of it depends on circumstances. If you have other strong healers in your raid, you should be able to get o5sr more often. If your dps is really strong and avoids avoidable damage, fights will be shorter and you won't need as much regen. Efficient use of Hymn of Hope, Inner Focus, Shadowfiend, etc. helps out a lot.

Your statement that a Holy Priest can go oom when everything goes wrong may be true, but my philosophy is to plan for normal circumstances, and not worry about the 5% of the time that you get bad luck.

Obviously, taking a point out of Meditation is the last thing you should do after re-gearing for throughput over regen, but I still say if you don't go oom on 19 out of 20 fights, it's worth a try to toss a point somewhere else.

Brittmari
10-21-2009, 07:32 PM
Thunderheals,

That question is way too general. We'd have to look at logs from the fights you have problems with to really give you an idea of what you might be doing wrong. Also, it depends on what content you're doing--your gear looks fine for 25 man Ulduar, but its on the bottom end for 25 man ToC.

gruurk
10-22-2009, 02:14 PM
Video, was ok with the only exception on mention of the Disp. As a tank I will not have a Disp Priest in the raid. Especially on me! I will have either a Holy Pally or Holy Priest. There isn't anything better than to really get healed. Bubbling isn't healing and thus a Disp priest arenít healing. I've tanked since WoW has started as a Druid tank. Iíve tanked as a Warrior, Druid, Pally and DK. If you have a Disp Priest on a warrior or Druid and they just bubble then you are hosing your tank and they aren't going to hold the aggro. Hence, no Disp priest arenít allowed any raid I run. You will have to be spec holy, holy main/off spec or find yourself a new guild! Disp priest are really a joke as MH and OH. Very long story short; because I tanked as a warrior on Darrowmere I was role reversed as a priest on this server. I have healed most of this expansion. So I have very clear picture of both sides now.

Due to the recession my old guild is dead and am now am going back to tanking again and much happier as a pally tank. Having the warrior back would have been better. I still think Warriors are the best boss tank and pallies are the best trash tank.

Run a 50% bubbling Disp priest only sim vs a holy heal sim if you donít believe me. See what happens. Really getting healed; there is nothing like it. And I have an out of sight repair bill to prove it too as a holy priest. Disp priest did nothing more than bubbling the whole time.

Disp Priest; L2Heal

/End Rant

Bovinity
10-22-2009, 02:17 PM
That was..um..an enlightening piece of writing there, Gruurk.

Especially the parts where Warriors are the best boss tanks and Disc priests can't heal.

Aliena
10-22-2009, 02:22 PM
Video, was ok with the only exception on mention of the Disp. As a tank I will not have a Disp Priest in the raid. Especially on me! I will have either a Holy Pally or Holy Priest. There isn't anything better than to really get healed. Bubbling isn't healing and thus a Disp priest arenít healing. I've tanked since WoW has started as a Druid tank. Iíve tanked as a Warrior, Druid, Pally and DK. If you have a Disp Priest on a warrior or Druid and they just bubble then you are hosing your tank and they aren't going to hold the aggro. Hence, no Disp priest arenít allowed any raid I run. You will have to be spec holy, holy main/off spec or find yourself a new guild! Disp priest are really a joke as MH and OH. Very long story short; because I tanked as a warrior on Darrowmere I was role reversed as a priest on this server. I have healed most of this expansion. So I have very clear picture of both sides now.

Due to the recession my old guild is dead and am now am going back to tanking again and much happier as a pally tank. Having the warrior back would have been better. I still think Warriors are the best boss tank and pallies are the best trash tank.

Run a 50% bubbling Disp priest only sim vs a holy heal sim if you donít believe me. See what happens. Really getting healed; there is nothing like it. And I have an out of sight repair bill to prove it too as a holy priest. Disp priest did nothing more than bubbling the whole time.

Disp Priest; L2Heal

/End Rant

I think you're stuck in the last expansion somehow. I would offer you a time portal but I'm kind of scared to be sharing the same universe with you.

Kidding. Sort of.

Ion
10-22-2009, 02:41 PM
Dollars to donuts that guy has the gear score mod installed and swears by it.

Bovinity
10-22-2009, 02:44 PM
Probably also validates his own bias every time he raids by linking healing meters in recount and mocking the disc priest.

tuffmuffin
10-22-2009, 02:56 PM
Video, was ok with the only exception on mention of the Disp. As a tank I will not have a Disp Priest in the raid. Especially on me! I will have either a Holy Pally or Holy Priest. There isn't anything better than to really get healed. Bubbling isn't healing and thus a Disp priest arenít healing. I've tanked since WoW has started as a Druid tank. Iíve tanked as a Warrior, Druid, Pally and DK. If you have a Disp Priest on a warrior or Druid and they just bubble then you are hosing your tank and they aren't going to hold the aggro. Hence, no Disp priest arenít allowed any raid I run. You will have to be spec holy, holy main/off spec or find yourself a new guild! Disp priest are really a joke as MH and OH. Very long story short; because I tanked as a warrior on Darrowmere I was role reversed as a priest on this server. I have healed most of this expansion. So I have very clear picture of both sides now.

Due to the recession my old guild is dead and am now am going back to tanking again and much happier as a pally tank. Having the warrior back would have been better. I still think Warriors are the best boss tank and pallies are the best trash tank.

Run a 50% bubbling Disp priest only sim vs a holy heal sim if you donít believe me. See what happens. Really getting healed; there is nothing like it. And I have an out of sight repair bill to prove it too as a holy priest. Disp priest did nothing more than bubbling the whole time.

Disp Priest; L2Heal

/End Rant
Hilarity in wall of text form.
If you are traumatized to have a Discipline Priest near you as a Warrior or Druid, learn how to tank properly. Regardless what age you may live in.

Vanilla it was a small issue being bubbled, but you learned how to adjust if that was the case. By Burning Crusade I couldn't care less if I was bubbled, and especially in this age being bubbled means nothing unless you're overgeared for the content in which case you'll be rage starved anyway. In that last scenario, stuff dies fast enough it hardly matters.

I've played this game since launch as a tank, whether it be Druid or Warrior and I've never had problems being bubbled. Ever. It could be that I started with a good friend of mine that made the choice to be a Priest that was liberal with his bubble button. Regardless, if you know what you're doing, you have nothing to be afraid of if you get bubbled.


Discipline Priests are amazing healers, especially now.
Great guide Aliena, very helpful for the Priest I'm leveling.

Nicki
10-22-2009, 05:32 PM
Video, was ok with the only exception on mention of the Disp. As a tank I will not have a Disp Priest in the raid. Especially on me! I will have either a Holy Pally or Holy Priest. There isn't anything better than to really get healed. Bubbling isn't healing and thus a Disp priest arenít healing. I've tanked since WoW has started as a Druid tank. Iíve tanked as a Warrior, Druid, Pally and DK. If you have a Disp Priest on a warrior or Druid and they just bubble then you are hosing your tank and they aren't going to hold the aggro. Hence, no Disp priest arenít allowed any raid I run. You will have to be spec holy, holy main/off spec or find yourself a new guild! Disp priest are really a joke as MH and OH. Very long story short; because I tanked as a warrior on Darrowmere I was role reversed as a priest on this server. I have healed most of this expansion. So I have very clear picture of both sides now.

Due to the recession my old guild is dead and am now am going back to tanking again and much happier as a pally tank. Having the warrior back would have been better. I still think Warriors are the best boss tank and pallies are the best trash tank.

Run a 50% bubbling Disp priest only sim vs a holy heal sim if you donít believe me. See what happens. Really getting healed; there is nothing like it. And I have an out of sight repair bill to prove it too as a holy priest. Disp priest did nothing more than bubbling the whole time.

Disp Priest; L2Heal

/End Rant

While I know you are just longing for attention and I am going to give you it fine.

Bubbles have no affect on rage the only tanks that suffer are paladins when they severely out gear instances.

Bubbles are often very useful if not overpowered.

Disc priests can be very good tank healers when required not as good as paladins but pretty much on par with every other tank healer class. Still you are better off now days using disc priests as a burst tank healer and raid mitigator...

Your experiance is kinda rofl, I could NEVER do what I do in 10 mans as holy prehaps you ought to look before you speak and think before you act?

I've already had someone like you on the WoW forums tell me absorption isn't healing and no its not its better than healing, it never needs to be healed the damage is effectively removed and effectively the player with a shield gains 8k EH. Which is probably better than ANY class for burst damage control especially when you combine the fastest strongest single target heal in the game (yes it may have a cooldown but its still powerful).

Refusetoheal
10-23-2009, 12:36 AM
Video, was ok with the only exception on mention of the Disp. As a tank I will not have a Disp Priest in the raid. Especially on me! I will have either a Holy Pally or Holy Priest. There isn't anything better than to really get healed. Bubbling isn't healing and thus a Disp priest arenít healing. I've tanked since WoW has started as a Druid tank. Iíve tanked as a Warrior, Druid, Pally and DK. If you have a Disp Priest on a warrior or Druid and they just bubble then you are hosing your tank and they aren't going to hold the aggro. Hence, no Disp priest arenít allowed any raid I run. You will have to be spec holy, holy main/off spec or find yourself a new guild! Disp priest are really a joke as MH and OH. Very long story short; because I tanked as a warrior on Darrowmere I was role reversed as a priest on this server. I have healed most of this expansion. So I have very clear picture of both sides now.

Due to the recession my old guild is dead and am now am going back to tanking again and much happier as a pally tank. Having the warrior back would have been better. I still think Warriors are the best boss tank and pallies are the best trash tank.

Run a 50% bubbling Disp priest only sim vs a holy heal sim if you donít believe me. See what happens. Really getting healed; there is nothing like it. And I have an out of sight repair bill to prove it too as a holy priest. Disp priest did nothing more than bubbling the whole time.

Disp Priest; L2Heal

/End Rant

It's funny how he try to prove himself by saying he healed as a priest on both spec before. If his reasoning is <There isn't anything better than to really get healed. Bubbling isn't healing and thus a Disp priest arenít healing.>... I can only tell him.

"Grats on being king on recount meter. Perhaps you could do an internet search and look for things call Guessabosbs, World of logs or wow online meter. Oh. you don't know whats that, k... no wonder you fail."


What's STRANGE is that my alt is warrior tank and in a raid if i were to chose Disc or Holy to HEAL ME. I will never chose Holy. :) if your having problem holding aggo as tank BECAUSE a disc priest is healing you...

A. Current xpansion/content, IF you cannot hold aggo as tank for most fights (less off like 10% of some fights). Can NEVER be dued to no rage/mana. so just...DELETE ALL your tanks. you are just pure fail.

B. If you are just back in game and have PHOBIA on disc priest's shield obstruct rage/mana, please go and read up Aliena's Disc priest guide and read up more on warrior/druid tank for this xpansion and how pally tank can easily rollface and get back mana WITHOUT being heal.

So, stop failing and pick up your skill(aka L2P) or STOP LIVING IN THE PAST and come back to present.

Doc309
10-23-2009, 11:45 AM
gruurk seems to me, an obvious troll....better suited for the official forums...
:)

Doc

montblanclol
10-26-2009, 09:09 AM
Video, was ok with the only exception on mention of the Disp. As a tank I will not have a Disp Priest in the raid. Especially on me! I will have either a Holy Pally or Holy Priest. There isn't anything better than to really get healed. Bubbling isn't healing and thus a Disp priest aren’t healing. I've tanked since WoW has started as a Druid tank. I’ve tanked as a Warrior, Druid, Pally and DK. If you have a Disp Priest on a warrior or Druid and they just bubble then you are hosing your tank and they aren't going to hold the aggro. Hence, no Disp priest aren’t allowed any raid I run. You will have to be spec holy, holy main/off spec or find yourself a new guild! Disp priest are really a joke as MH and OH. Very long story short; because I tanked as a warrior on Darrowmere I was role reversed as a priest on this server. I have healed most of this expansion. So I have very clear picture of both sides now.

Due to the recession my old guild is dead and am now am going back to tanking again and much happier as a pally tank. Having the warrior back would have been better. I still think Warriors are the best boss tank and pallies are the best trash tank.

Run a 50% bubbling Disp priest only sim vs a holy heal sim if you don’t believe me. See what happens. Really getting healed; there is nothing like it. And I have an out of sight repair bill to prove it too as a holy priest. Disp priest did nothing more than bubbling the whole time.

Disp Priest; L2Heal

/End Rant

sounds as if you were joking, but anyways, healing+absorbs = negation. fights like algalon or freya hardmode are pretty well handled by a disc. priest, since
"bubbling" virtually increases your total HP. so that you can actually take a big algalon hit and survive (tank), and in freya for the ground tremor (raid). for actual content, just look for twin valks absorbs. those are just two lil examples. im pretty sure you're just joking, i just couldn't read your post and say nothing :P

to clarify our fellow priests that came here to learn and improve their game:
1) disc priests are very powerful. id say they are mandatory for certain fights even.
2) they are very strong in their direct healing, but also in some fights they can greatly reduce the raid dmg. (Twins,Freya)
3) holy priest is the worst class in the game to heal a tank. you would need to go disc.

HealthBar
10-27-2009, 09:41 AM
sounds as if you were joking, but anyways, healing+absorbs = negation. fights like algalon or freya hardmode are pretty well handled by a disc. priest, since
"bubbling" virtually increases your total HP. so that you can actually take a big algalon hit and survive (tank), and in freya for the ground tremor (raid). for actual content, just look for twin valks absorbs. those are just two lil examples. im pretty sure you're just joking, i just couldn't read your post and say nothing :P

to clarify our fellow priests that came here to learn and improve their game:
1) disc priests are very powerful. id say they are mandatory for certain fights even.
2) they are very strong in their direct healing, but also in some fights they can greatly reduce the raid dmg. (Twins,Freya)
3) holy priest is the worst class in the game to heal a tank. you would need to go disc.

I have to agree with you on this one. Disc priests are fantastic tank heals, they prevent a lot of tank and raid damage and also if they're glyphed for their sheilds, an additional 1-2K healing is given. Not to mention the added bonuses of Renewed Hope(increases critical heals by you on targets with weakened soul by 4%) and Divine Ages(which can proc from a shield and absorbe additional damage).
Imagine the amount of damage negation when the legendary mace comes into play. When it comes to raid healing, they are a bit weak.




With my priest (who is holy) I found that getting Body and Soul 2/2 and 4/5 Empowered healing with a full test of faith and empowered renew was the most effective in TOCG raiding. (With the no speed increase on Icehowel body and soul makes a large difference for ensuring everyone can move. However, other than that and the convince of 'sprinting' around, I don't see a whole lot of use in this talent. I'm just the person who enjoys running about with increased speed to move out of AOE or out of anub's kite path).

I admit not getting serendipity can cause some frustration with only relying on circle of healing and the 10 min CD Divine Hymn (really should have a shorter cool down) for AOE healing (I make up for that by spamming renew and some occasions holy nova(like on 10 tocg anub) which actually works nicely).
However, with the competition for raid heals, I discovered that I was not flash healing often (only when surge of light was up) and would rarely make use of Prayer of Healing cast reduction when serendipity was fully stacked. Because by the time I would cast it, very health would be actually restored, (Perhaps if I was a haste fan I would find this spell to be more useful).

I did some math and discovered that with my current haste, I would only get a .3216 less of a cast time with prayer of healing (with the 12% talent, .2144% with the 8% talent, and .1072% with the 4% talent)when there was a 3 stack of Serendipity. In the time it took me to cast that spell, I could circle of healing, use my surge of light proc and renew on everyone that would of been affected by prayer of healing.

Overall, I decided that renew was my favored healing spell (especially on twins) since it's an instant cast and will heal from 2.8-3.5K instantly non-crit. I'm almost always a raid healer and am competing with druids, another holy priest, and usually a restro shaman for heals, so it's a battle to out heal them.:(

gruurk
10-27-2009, 10:31 AM
I fail to see why you guys keep supporting a bad spec for healing. Holy is the only way to go for priest if the subject is healing. True Story: My old guild has died due to this recession and am more than likely not that far behind them. So I just joined a new guild this week. I have a Prot Pally and Holy Priest in it. We go to ONY10 but in this situation all of the normal tanks including myself aren't tanking it but we are going to heal it. We are going to use a Warrior MT and DK OT. We have one Disp Priest (normally Frost DK), one Restro Shammy (normally Prot Pally) and me as a holy priest (Prot Pally). We wipe, wipe and wipe in the 2nd phase. No matter how much we tried; it didn't happen.

The reports from the encounter indicated that I out healed (Holy) the lot followed by the restro shammy and then Disp was dead last on healing (has about 150 more points in gear). The Disp Priest was bubbling like normal and I think dpsing as well. I was too busy to watch because I had the OT and raid. So where is that great healing at? Remember bubbling a warrior or druid isn't good. It cuts into the rage and limits their ability to hold aggro. It's ok, in a moment of crisis and it's better to hold the tank up so you can get that heal in and take a risk to loose aggro for a brief moment. But constantly isnít going to work. I've been wrong before and don't mind if I am but show me that great prove because as an ex warrior/druid tank am not impressed. I still really miss my warrior when it comes to tanking.

So act like am from Missouri. Show me some proof.

Bovinity
10-27-2009, 10:37 AM
We go to ONY10 but in this situation all of the normal tanks including myself aren't tanking it but we are going to heal it. We are going to use a Warrior MT and DK OT. We have one Disp Priest (normally Frost DK), one Restro Shammy (normally Prot Pally) and me as a holy priest (Prot Pally). We wipe, wipe and wipe in the 2nd phase. No matter how much we tried; it didn't happen.

Wiping repeatedly in Onyxia 10 has nothing to do with healing class makeup. People just failed.


and then Disp was dead last on healing (has about 150 more points in gear). The Disp Priest was bubbling like normal and I think dpsing as well.

Gee, maybe he was dead last because he was DPSing and because absorbs from shields don't show up on precious recount meters? (Why was he DPSing at all?)


Remember bubbling a warrior or druid isn't good. It cuts into the rage and limits their ability to hold aggro.

This is not true and has not been true for a long time. Sorry.


It's ok, in a moment of crisis and it's better to hold the tank up so you can get that heal in and take a risk to loose aggro for a brief moment. But constantly isn’t going to work.

Again, not true. Even if it WERE true (Which it still isn't) if a tank lost aggro because of a PW:S, they would be doing something terribly wrong.

Healing meters are a TERRRIBLE way of measureing anything, anyway. The very fact that you're using them as a way to measure that one class is better or worse than another is the first clue that your logic is flawed.

Doc309
10-27-2009, 01:09 PM
maybe Gruurk isn't a troll, but just misinformed....
meters = fail, until they count damage reduction as = to heals.
-5% aggro from bubble should not be a problem for any REAL tank.
GL

Doc

sangredios
10-27-2009, 01:30 PM
Remember bubbling a warrior or druid isn't good. It cuts into the rage and limits their ability to hold aggro.

The shield gives 8 rage.

HealthBar
10-27-2009, 01:47 PM
I fail to see why you guys keep supporting a bad spec for healing. Holy is the only way to go for priest if the subject is healing. True Story: My old guild has died due to this recession and am more than likely not that far behind them. So I just joined a new guild this week. I have a Prot Pally and Holy Priest in it. We go to ONY10 but in this situation all of the normal tanks including myself aren't tanking it but we are going to heal it. We are going to use a Warrior MT and DK OT. We have one Disp Priest (normally Frost DK), one Restro Shammy (normally Prot Pally) and me as a holy priest (Prot Pally). We wipe, wipe and wipe in the 2nd phase. No matter how much we tried; it didn't happen.

The reports from the encounter indicated that I out healed (Holy) the lot followed by the restro shammy and then Disp was dead last on healing (has about 150 more points in gear). The Disp Priest was bubbling like normal and I think dpsing as well. I was too busy to watch because I had the OT and raid. So where is that great healing at? Remember bubbling a warrior or druid isn't good. It cuts into the rage and limits their ability to hold aggro. It's ok, in a moment of crisis and it's better to hold the tank up so you can get that heal in and take a risk to loose aggro for a brief moment. But constantly isnít going to work. I've been wrong before and don't mind if I am but show me that great prove because as an ex warrior/druid tank am not impressed. I still really miss my warrior when it comes to tanking.

So act like am from Missouri. Show me some proof.



World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis (http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/0kvjxx1fdv9bbhz1/sum/healingDone/?s=1699&e=2143)



25 TOCG Faction champions, notice that both priests are disc. Now before you fluff your feathers and rant on saying something along the lines of "lol priests got out healed by paladins."
Look at the dispels.
There are many reasons why a disc priest will not beat cretin classes in healing meters, one of those reasons is because they are doing their jobs, dispelling.
I await your next misguided retort.

tuffmuffin
10-27-2009, 02:07 PM
I fail to see why you guys keep supporting a bad spec for healing. Holy is the only way to go for priest if the subject is healing. True Story: My old guild has died due to this recession and am more than likely not that far behind them. So I just joined a new guild this week. I have a Prot Pally and Holy Priest in it. We go to ONY10 but in this situation all of the normal tanks including myself aren't tanking it but we are going to heal it. We are going to use a Warrior MT and DK OT. We have one Disp Priest (normally Frost DK), one Restro Shammy (normally Prot Pally) and me as a holy priest (Prot Pally). We wipe, wipe and wipe in the 2nd phase. No matter how much we tried; it didn't happen.

The reports from the encounter indicated that I out healed (Holy) the lot followed by the restro shammy and then Disp was dead last on healing (has about 150 more points in gear). The Disp Priest was bubbling like normal and I think dpsing as well. I was too busy to watch because I had the OT and raid. So where is that great healing at? Remember bubbling a warrior or druid isn't good. It cuts into the rage and limits their ability to hold aggro. It's ok, in a moment of crisis and it's better to hold the tank up so you can get that heal in and take a risk to loose aggro for a brief moment. But constantly isn’t going to work. I've been wrong before and don't mind if I am but show me that great prove because as an ex warrior/druid tank am not impressed. I still really miss my warrior when it comes to tanking.

So act like am from Missouri. Show me some proof.
It's not a bad spec, you're just bad at it or don't understand it. As long as you are simply looking at the meters and saying "well he's at the bottom, clearly he sucks" you will NEVER understand it. You need to take into account healer roles and mechanics. Holy Priests heal differently than Discipline Priests. Also, if one of the healers is DPSing that usually means you have too many healers so he's looking for something to do.

Just from what I've read about your failed attempt at Onyxia, the blame can't be put on anyone. Since you were clearly on alts, how are we to know how badly geared the group was? You can do Onyxia10 with one tank and one healer so three healers is a bit overkill unless you have a poorly geared raid. Bad DPS prolongs the fight and can cause healers to go OOM, a badly geared tank runs the risk of being destroyed by any combination of melee swings, cleaves, wing buffets, and flame breaths etc.. Since you say you've been wiping in Phase 2, it could be bad DPS, people failing at Deep Breath or Ignite Weapon/Blast Nova, tanks could be failing at picking stuff up causing more healing than is necessary, the list goes on.

The fact you keep trying to play the threat card also shows us that you still don't understand current tank mechanics. The amount of threat tanks do now is simpy stupid (particularly when played properly). I could care less if I was bubbled constantly on either of my Rage tanks. If you ever lose aggro after the first 5 seconds of a fight, you screwed up as a tank, or a DPS got a bit overzealous from the start. Hodir and Vezax hardmodes (easy modes I could care less about as enrage timers are extremely lax) are the only "threat sensitive" fights in the game and thus the only real cases where DPS would pull aggro after the tank has control. That's it. Not to mention 98% of everything in the game is tauntable. It's not hard to watch Omen to see who may be near you on threat and be able to taunt instantly should you lose aggro. The majority of DPS classes also have aggro drops of some form and intelligent ones know how to use them should the need ever arise (virtually never with a smart tank). Warriors can also juggle Vigilance, or Intervene people if the particular encounter allows for it.

!3M
10-27-2009, 10:37 PM
... I still really miss my warrior when it comes to tanking.

I think that's the main reason why you're still in vanilla mode (and sadly very very misinformed). Hop onto your warrior and try it out again, you'll notice that it isn't like that anymore.

When you talk about heal meters, did you look at your overheals as well? We're you also top on overheals?

Like everyone in the thread has said, shields now give you some rage. On top of that, it's direct dmg mitigation and will definitely not show up on your heal meter but get this, if the shield absorbs 8k of dmg... that's equivalent to 2/3s of your gheal without crit and 1/2 of your gheal crit. On top of that, because of their talents, the disc priest can be casting another heal or shield while you're waiting for your next gheal.

I agree with Doc, maybe you're just sadly misinformed... perhaps you should take the time and re-study the changes since you went AWOL in WoW.

Brittmari
10-28-2009, 02:19 PM
I disagree with statements like "Holy Priests make the worst tank healers."

1. Ability>Spec A good Holy Priest is a better tank healer than an average Disc Priest
2. I agree that a Disc Priest has a few more tricks up his sleeve than a Holy Priest for single target healing, but the Holy Tree does have Guardian Spirit (especially glyphed), Surge of Light Procs, Serendipity hasted Greater Heals, and Test of Faith, plus Circle of Healing and Empowered Renew giving Holy Priests the most true Instant Cast heals.
3. In terms of what class has the fewest tools for main tank healing, I'd have to vote for Resto Shaman. Not that I'd say a Resto Shammy couldn't MT heal, just that Holy Priest has a few more tricks which would give him a slight edge.

Given time to learn the ins and outs of tank healing, any class or spec can excel at this task. If I had to rank based on tools available, I'd put it like this:

Best tank healers (tie)--Disc Priest, Paladin
Very good tank healers (tie)--Resto Druid, Resto Shammy, Holy Priest
Bad tank healers--Rogues, Hunters, DK's, Warriors, Warlocks, Mages

Mostly, I'm objecting to the word "worst" used as though one was saying "A raid leader would have to be a total idiot to assign a Holy Priest to Main Tank healing duties."

Aliena
10-28-2009, 02:32 PM
Mostly, I'm objecting to the word "worst" used as though one was saying "A raid leader would have to be a total idiot to assign a Holy Priest to Main Tank healing duties."

Sadly, that's currently how it is. While I can get the job done (badly compared to any other class played by a player of similar performance and gear level), you'd never find me tank healing as holy, I'd switch specs beforehand. It's just no good.

Pattis70
10-28-2009, 06:17 PM
I appreciate the guide it has helped me become a better healer and so far so good my guild appreciates me too.:D

Brittmari
10-28-2009, 06:51 PM
Sadly, that's currently how it is. While I can get the job done (badly compared to any other class played by a player of similar performance and gear level), you'd never find me tank healing as holy, I'd switch specs beforehand. It's just no good.

I'd switch specs to MT end game content too (if I wasn't currently facemelter for my 2nd spec). But I suspect that getting the job done badly compared to any other class is partially due to the fact that you have way more experience MT healing as Disc than you do Holy, and partially because (and this is a total unjustified assumption) maybe you didn't come up in the game when mastering the pre-emptive Gheal was the go-to strategy for keeping the main tank alive.

But if we agree that Holy Pallys and Disc Priests are the best MT healers, I still don't see an argument that a Resto Druid or Resto Shammy is significantly better than a Holy Priest that would justify giving my fav spec the "worst" moniker. Guardian Spirit really seals the deal for me over Trees and Shammys as who to choose for MT duties when the Pallys and Bubble Priests are vacationing in the Caymans.

Aliena
10-28-2009, 07:24 PM
Nope. I've been playing since vanilla and cleared all content in BC as it came available so I'm very used to gheal and downranking (and boy do I miss it!). The game has changed in such a way that right now, holy priests are very inefficient tank healers which becomes more and more obvious the higher up content you do. That's something we have to accept and I'm sure it'll change again over time, as everything in this game does.

Guardian Spirit is a cooldown that doesn't require you to be a tank healer to apply it. So while it saves tank lives, it doesn't actually help our tank healing throughput or speed.

Fetzie
10-28-2009, 07:56 PM
holy priests are very inefficient tank healers which becomes more and more obvious the higher up content you do.

Even in lower level stuff this appears to hold true, I could keep the group alive at the black knight phase 3 (2700 hps pewpew), but had to use my cooldowns and a manapot to keep the tank up at eadric (where I basically used flash heal, renew, shield and PoM). holy priests are, quite simply, group/raid healers, they have a multitude of fairly efficient tools to do this. Flash heal costs about 650 mana, and only heals a single target. For 150 more mana I can cast Circle of healing and heal the same amount on up to 6 players (and CoH is instant too, flash heal isnt always).

I found this guide invaluable when finding out about my new alt so thanks for that :)

!3M
10-28-2009, 07:58 PM
...the "worst" moniker. Guardian Spirit...

I guess what everyone is saying would be that Holy has become very inefficient as MT healers. In the hands of a skilled player, I'd bet that every healer who's properly geared would be able to keep the tank up. The question now is which spec serves the role more efficiently.

Like what Aliena mentioned in the above post, a Holy priest can still apply glyphed GS on tank without having to be assigned to MT (that's what i do anyway when I'm raid healing as Holy). Also, I'd rather be raid heals when I'm Holy as I'm now so much more efficient at keeping everyone up (and topped up).

Ollin
10-29-2009, 01:12 PM
IMO it's all about bringing the right tools for the job. Look at what spells holy props up and how it props them up, then compare them to what and how the disc tree does the same.

Holy enhances your AoEs (even giving you another one), lets spell crits proc free flash heals, and has your flash heals stack a haste buff for your big heal. Additionally you get significant enhancements for your one HoT. That's a lot of enhancement for AoE's, fire and forgets, and a lot of enhancement for fast, emergency, single-target healing.

Disc enhances your mitigation spells (soul warding); adds more mitigation abilities to your other heals (divine aegis); props the hell out of your low-cost, precision heal (flash heal); gives you a new, shiny quick hot that blows the class's bomb heal out of the water on mana efficiency and average healing done when you stack a bit of crit (penance); and gives you a considerable throughput advantage when you heal a single target to the exclusion of others (grace). Additionally, Disc greatly enhances your staying power by allowing you to regen mana in combat through scaleable procs (rapture) and still provides the standard mana reduction talents for your bread-and-butter spells (improved flash heal) that let you support a single target extremely well from both sides of the "take more damage than your HP and die" equation.

Holy can hit the AoEs for around as long as a Disc priest, but will get a lot more mileage out of them.

Disc priests don't go OOM unless there's something very wrong happening or they're AoE healing.

A holy priest can tank heal but he won't have nearly the staying power of a Disc priest, and can only heal damage that has been taken where a disc priest will heal damage taken but can also effectively increase the target's maximum health pool with mitigation effects.

On the other side of things, a disc priest can only maximize his proc benifits if he heals a single target. A DA proc is more likely to fade without being used when the target is only taking incidental AoE when compared to a tank who will use each and every DA shield. Grace is less than useless when you're raid healing as disc because your bread-and-butter heals only get effect from repeated casting after it's stacked, and your AoE's don't apply it. Serindipity and Surge of Light OTOH don't care what you're healing with or who you're healing. They only care that you're healing both before and after the proc.

On yet another flip side, the disc talents don't give a rip about who's using them once they're applied. Their use is independent of the priest. Holy is limited by button presses, casting times, and GCDs. When a tank can die so something as simple as a second swing in a row, the time needed to leverage the holy proc talents just isn't there compared to the fire and forget nature of DA and Grace.

Disc = Tank heals
Holy = Raid heals

Both can do both. They just don't sub for each other very well.

Brittmari
10-31-2009, 02:46 PM
I guess what everyone is saying would be that Holy has become very inefficient as MT healers. In the hands of a skilled player, I'd bet that every healer who's properly geared would be able to keep the tank up. The question now is which spec serves the role more efficiently.

I don't think there's anyone arguing that given equal skill and equivalent gear a Holy Priest would make a better tank healer than a Disc Priest would. Originally, I only objected to the word "worst" because I think Resto Shammies and Resto Druids are on par with Holy Priests for single target healing (or maybe slightly below).

But my main objection to the discussion now is that it reinforces the notion among less knowlegable players that you HAVE to be a Disc Priest or Holy Paladin to be a Tank healer. Raid Leaders shouldn't be browbeaten into thinking that they have to assign a Disc Priest as the Main Tank healer if the Holy Priest is a significantly stronger player.

Not everyone who plays Warcraft and reads these blogs is fortunate enough to have an ideal group of strong players who are capable of downing all new content on the day it is released.


Like what Aliena mentioned in the above post, a Holy priest can still apply glyphed GS on tank without having to be assigned to MT (that's what i do anyway when I'm raid healing as Holy). Also, I'd rather be raid heals when I'm Holy as I'm now so much more efficient at keeping everyone up (and topped up).

Disc Priest can still pop PW:S and PS on the Main Tank while they are assigned to raid heals, so I'm not sure exactly what this point is addressing. My point in bringing up GS was that it was a tool that Holy Priests have that Resto Shammies and Trees don't have that gives the Holy Priest an edge over the other 2 as far as single target healing goes.

veronikka
11-02-2009, 08:20 AM
IMO it's all about bringing the right tools for the job. Look at what spells holy props up and how it props them up, then compare them to what and how the disc tree does the same.

Holy enhances your AoEs (even giving you another one), lets spell crits proc free flash heals, and has your flash heals stack a haste buff for your big heal. Additionally you get significant enhancements for your one HoT. That's a lot of enhancement for AoE's, fire and forgets, and a lot of enhancement for fast, emergency, single-target healing.

Disc enhances your mitigation spells (soul warding); adds more mitigation abilities to your other heals (divine aegis); props the hell out of your low-cost, precision heal (flash heal); gives you a new, shiny quick hot that blows the class's bomb heal out of the water on mana efficiency and average healing done when you stack a bit of crit (penance); and gives you a considerable throughput advantage when you heal a single target to the exclusion of others (grace). Additionally, Disc greatly enhances your staying power by allowing you to regen mana in combat through scaleable procs (rapture) and still provides the standard mana reduction talents for your bread-and-butter spells (improved flash heal) that let you support a single target extremely well from both sides of the "take more damage than your HP and die" equation.

Holy can hit the AoEs for around as long as a Disc priest, but will get a lot more mileage out of them.

Disc priests don't go OOM unless there's something very wrong happening or they're AoE healing.

A holy priest can tank heal but he won't have nearly the staying power of a Disc priest, and can only heal damage that has been taken where a disc priest will heal damage taken but can also effectively increase the target's maximum health pool with mitigation effects.

On the other side of things, a disc priest can only maximize his proc benifits if he heals a single target. A DA proc is more likely to fade without being used when the target is only taking incidental AoE when compared to a tank who will use each and every DA shield. Grace is less than useless when you're raid healing as disc because your bread-and-butter heals only get effect from repeated casting after it's stacked, and your AoE's don't apply it. Serindipity and Surge of Light OTOH don't care what you're healing with or who you're healing. They only care that you're healing both before and after the proc.

On yet another flip side, the disc talents don't give a rip about who's using them once they're applied. Their use is independent of the priest. Holy is limited by button presses, casting times, and GCDs. When a tank can die so something as simple as a second swing in a row, the time needed to leverage the holy proc talents just isn't there compared to the fire and forget nature of DA and Grace.

Disc = Tank heals
Holy = Raid heals

Both can do both. They just don't sub for each other very well.

If you are running both in a raid, putting the disc priest on raid, and the holy priest on the tank is not taking full advantage of the benefits they bring. As noted previously, PS and GS are cast as needed regardless of your assignment. The two specs are different for a reason, and the reasons are stated above. If you don't have a disc priest, sure, put the holy priest on the tank.

For the record, I do disagree with this statement:

"I don't think there's anyone arguing that given equal skill and equivalent gear a Holy Priest would make a better tank healer than a Disc Priest would." In my opinion, the Holy priest would need to outgear and outskill the Disc priest and would still need to have an awesome tank assignment. A Disc priest can do more with less and still keep an average tank up.

montblanclol
11-02-2009, 10:08 AM
i want to clarify what i said:

"holy priest is at the moment the worst class/spec to heal a tank"

this is based on:

Every other class is better at tank healing than the holy priest. And the holy priest is better at raid healing than any other class but the restoration druids.

Doesn't that makes the holy priest your last option to keep up a tank?

Also, please have in mind you have to min/max. If you'll come saying holy priest are able to tank heal, have them tankhealing Algalon.

It's like gemming and enchanting your gear. as a Holy Priest you look at Twin Valks, as the fight that "tells you" what to gem and how to spec. That fight gives you a perfect balance for your gear for the current patch.

What im trying to say is: if you have any doubts about what spec/class is best at what, just pick two fights. One that requires massive tank heals (algalon,impaler,anub heroic?) and one that requires massive raid heals. best classes for each situation will shine.

eeva
11-04-2009, 11:06 AM
thank you very much for this guide. i found it very thorough and informative and loved the tone. i'm still relatively new at holy priest-dom (switched from rogue at 3.1).

i am having a lot of trouble figuring out which weapon upgrades to shoot for for since 3.2/ToTC. i've been concerned with the lack of spirit on virtually all possible upgrades (save the 25-man heroic, "tribute to skill" staff, which is nowhere near on the horizon for me at this point), but this guide has helped dampen those concerns somewhat. i know one thing for sure--i'll definitely be switching my SP/Haste & SP/Crit gems to luminous ametrines tonight. i'm also seriously considering picking up talisman of resurgence to replace spark of hope.

can anyone point me to a place where the current holy priest weapon issue is discussed, here or elsewhere? not loot rank lists--i mean discussion of 2H vs. MH/OH combos, etc. i'm new, so apologies if i'm missing something obvious.

thanks again.
(http://www.wowhead.com/?item=45234)

gruurk
11-08-2009, 08:01 AM
I think you're stuck in the last expansion somehow. I would offer you a time portal but I'm kind of scared to be sharing the same universe with you.

Kidding. Sort of.

I saw your posting and I don't kid one bit about raiding; serious is a major understatement. Sorry, but you are completely wrong and disp priest aren't healers. I have had more than a few wipes to prove that. I would except being wrong if someone could ever toss up some solid proof. I would except that some disp priest don’t know their own spec. So far no one has proven anything to me. I told someone else on some another board to act like am from Missouri and show me. To date no proof at all; just opinions and lofty ideas. I would like to give it chance and sim it but so far there isn't any simulators out there that I have found that could simulate the a fight to play what if’s really. And paying for a 25 man wipes to play what if’s isn't in the budget. Oh, the time portal for you to the future is in Shat! =P

I was kidding Aliena about the portal. It's not really there. There goes Aliena looking for something else that isn't there. <sigh>

Oh Boy!


Last joke aside, I give you guys a chance to change my mind and you haven’t. I figured that if there was any group that could; this one would have the best fighting chance. What I got was more we are right and your wrong; sad to say. I don’t like killing good ideas and am normally all ears. Sure I tossed it out like a gauntlet on the ground to try to get the best priest out there to take a stand, have faith in what s/he believed in and grounded in solid facts. I didn’t get that. I am sorry for the setup but I wanted moving proof if it was there. Opinions and lofty ideas don’t move me guys. Oh well.

I didn’t get it so I will remain unmoved as a tank should be; doing smart, proven and safe actions to keep my raid alive. I’ll stick with my Holy Priest, Holy Pallies, Restro shammies and Druids.

Take care and see you around. Thanks for your time.

Doc309
11-08-2009, 02:39 PM
GL to you

Doc

Knighterrant81
11-09-2009, 12:39 AM
I tank healed as Holy for a lot of 10 man fights, including all of TOC and most of Ulduar.

I think the biggest problem with Holy tank healing is that we can't afford to spam heals on Tanks like other healers can. On Gormok, for instance, if I were to spam gheal like a Paladin, I'd put out less healing, slower, and likely run OOM faster or lose the tank. Also, serendipity requires weaving flash heals to get our Gheal up to a reasonable speed. It *can* be done, especially when you add in POM and renew - however, pretty much everyone else does it better.

we're better off using COH and hasted POH to heal up the raid. Its just where our strengths lie.

hellokitti
11-09-2009, 08:54 AM
Nope. I've been playing since vanilla and cleared all content in BC as it came available so I'm very used to gheal and downranking (and boy do I miss it!). The game has changed in such a way that right now, holy priests are very inefficient tank healers which becomes more and more obvious the higher up content you do. That's something we have to accept and I'm sure it'll change again over time, as everything in this game does.


I am glad to see I am not the only one who misses downranking! Once Blizz took away that option, I find that I rarely use GHeal. :(

As for showing gruuk proof, I have seen plenty of it in responses to his Missouri post. I do not think judging a spec based off of attempts at Ony (with alts, no less, which may indicate a reduction in effective game play or understanding of the specs played...ie, negative transfer from the main toon's game play) provides this forum with any proof of your supposition that disc priests are worthless and thus barred from your raids. Holy is my main spec but everyone in my guild is glad when I do switch to disc to provide the numerous benefits disc priests can bring (your detested bubbles being chief among them) when the fight dictates it. Our pally, DK, warrior, and druid tanks neither object nor complain about the loss of threat...since they don't have that problem, even with the bubbles. :rolleyes:
Our biggest threat of failure stems not from having a disc priest in the raid, but from dps who obsess over recount stats.

Let go of the meter-reading...you will be much happier for it.

Unluckky
11-09-2009, 12:20 PM
I see some UI's of raiding priests that have a mod that tells them "prayer of mending is now available" and "circle of healing is now available". I am an endgame raiding holy priest and would love to find out just what mod this is please

Unluckky
11-09-2009, 12:23 PM
oh and gheal is a joke in the current set up spike tank dmg set-up. it's virtually unusuable in endgame where dmg is so spiky and fast that it's not worth doing AT ALL unless you have serendipity talent. Even then i can count on two hands the times i felt that heal actually landed and wasn't 90% overheal by the time it went off. GC says that's our main heal! LOL I LOVE what they're doign with ICC make the bosses hit for less more often. No more of this totgc tank killed in two hits garbage.

Unluckky
11-09-2009, 12:39 PM
Trying to figure out what you want proof of. I think what you're trying to say about discp is even harder to prove. Learn all about the mitigation that class brings to a raid and actually get a competent priest. I have a strong feeling that you are raiding/playing with someone who is offspecced discp or not competent. Or you have assigned them to the wrong healing assignment- (this happens in 90% of even the totgc raids i am in) and are staring at meters.

Unluckky
11-09-2009, 12:42 PM
As for what some of the other posters stated above. It has NEVER been the heals or even tanks which make or break any of the endgame progression fights. It's the dps that can't switch targets on gormok's adds, volcanoes and portals on jaraxxus and target switch on twins and adds on anub.

tuffmuffin
11-09-2009, 02:21 PM
I see some UI's of raiding priests that have a mod that tells them "prayer of mending is now available" and "circle of healing is now available". I am an endgame raiding holy priest and would love to find out just what mod this is please
Mik's Scrolling Battle Text can do it.
I'm sure a myriad of class-timer mods could do it as well.

Koyanis
11-16-2009, 03:31 AM
I saw your posting and I don't kid one bit about raiding; serious is a major understatement. Sorry, but you are completely wrong and disp priest aren't healers.
------cut-----
I didnít get it so I will remain unmoved as a tank should be; doing smart, proven and safe actions to keep my raid alive. Iíll stick with my Holy Priest, Holy Pallies, Restro shammies and Druids.

Take care and see you around. Thanks for your time.
Here are two logs from my guilds 1st and 2nd times ever killing heroic beasts 25 and Lord Jaraxus 25 - in which we run with 2 disc healers;
You will notice I switch to disc on our very first kill around try 11 and can compare effective heals/shields.

WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay (http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/9567241#healingout)

WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay (http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/9474172#healingout)

You cant argue with the detail presented there - I also run wow-cardio and can present you with several screencaps that show the tanks taking 41+k impale+hit combos and surviving purely because of the combination of discs shield buffers and aegis combinations reducing that and the paladin spam+beacon effects.

Effects such as PS and what is essentially the ability to increase your main-tanks health by 6-12k at a time make disc priests fantastic additions to raids and realy realy helpful in the current raiding content where the raidbosses can hit spikes of up to 90% of a tanks health - depending on gear.

...Although It seems you already made up your mind and I expect the only people reading this and looking at my logs will be people who already know the value of a disc priest anyway....
At least I can perhaps have helped somone :P

chun
11-19-2009, 11:35 PM
Thanks again for the guide,

Another quick question, is there a "general" breakdown as to how
much healing you should have from each spell? I guess it may vary
too much based on content and assignments.

For example, when two healing an ulduar 10 (I was a holy priest,
the other healer was a tree druid and we basically free-for-all healed):
My healing breakdown was: 28%flash heal, 25% PoM, 21% CoH, 10%
PoH -- this is a percentage in terms of healing done, not #of casts.

Am I not using CoH or PoH enough, or is that a reasonable distribution?

It was a good run with and in the final breakdown both healers were close
in terms of amount healed.

Renraku
11-21-2009, 05:52 PM
Hi,
1st - I believe the Shoulder enchant from the Sons of Hodir is now a Bind On Account item so if you have 1 character with the appropriate rep you don't have to grind it again, yay.

2nd - Does casting shield on a tank mess up their their threat or rage generation? A friend told me it did but I think he might of been basing it on old info.

Thanks

Spiritus
11-21-2009, 08:00 PM
Casting PW:S on a tank does not mess up their threat or rage generation, esp with warriors, druids, & DKs. There is an ever so slight negative correlation between SA (tankadins) and absorbs, but is negligible for any relevant content. Rapture off-sets PW:S, but DA will ultimately cause your tankadin to take less damage, ergo take less healing, and thus receive less mana back from SA. Again, this isn't anything to worry about for relevant content and only comes into play if your ToC geared group runs, say, a heroic 5man.

In short, your friend is basing his "facts" on old info.

Renraku
11-21-2009, 08:10 PM
Casting PW:S on a tank does not mess up their threat or rage generation, esp with warriors, druids, & DKs. There is an ever so slight negative correlation between SA (tankadins) and absorbs, but is negligible for any relevant content. Rapture off-sets PW:S, but DA will ultimately cause your tankadin to take less damage, ergo take less healing, and thus receive less mana back from SA. Again, this isn't anything to worry about for relevant content and only comes into play if your ToC geared group runs, say, a heroic 5man.

In short, your friend is basing his "facts" on old info.

Cool, thx.

MercenaryIII
12-06-2009, 12:52 AM
I am gonna have to disagree with Aliena about the effectiveness of Greater Heal in the holy tree. While raid healing may require more AoE heals as opposed to tank healing (using PoH with Serendipity stacks and such), I would say that Serendipity's full stack being used with Greater Heal makes it an excellent health bar restore for any loner close to death, healing at the speed of a flash heal with Divine Fury talents. I've also done tiny bits of math and found that Greater Heal (for my gear, 2.3k SP) has an average 9.1 health per mana ratio, as compared to 6.9 health per mana from Flash Heal even with the Glyph of Flash Heal in effect. At that point, it would be a situational choice between needing to heal multiple people or saving someone with uber low health (even the tank, eh?), but the idea is: Greater Heal is not terrible with serendipity in mind. Anyone else agree? Might just be the fact that I am only doing heroics and stuff so far and need to heal everybody, all the time.

Aliena
12-06-2009, 03:48 AM
I am gonna have to disagree with Aliena about the effectiveness of Greater Heal in the holy tree. While raid healing may require more AoE heals as opposed to tank healing (using PoH with Serendipity stacks and such), I would say that Serendipity's full stack being used with Greater Heal makes it an excellent health bar restore for any loner close to death, healing at the speed of a flash heal with Divine Fury talents. I've also done tiny bits of math and found that Greater Heal (for my gear, 2.3k SP) has an average 9.1 health per mana ratio, as compared to 6.9 health per mana from Flash Heal even with the Glyph of Flash Heal in effect. At that point, it would be a situational choice between needing to heal multiple people or saving someone with uber low health (even the tank, eh?), but the idea is: Greater Heal is not terrible with serendipity in mind. Anyone else agree? Might just be the fact that I am only doing heroics and stuff so far and need to heal everybody, all the time.

The drawback to greater heal is the amount of talent points that you have to invest to make it even moderately worthwhile to cast, not to mention it lacks behind in hps and efficiency compared to any other healer's large single target heal. Of course it has some uses in heroics and small-scale raids, but its usefulness declines as you move up in raids. And gear.

Unluckky
12-06-2009, 07:01 AM
The drawback to greater heal is the amount of talent points that you have to invest to make it even moderately worthwhile to cast, not to mention it lacks behind in hps and efficiency compared to any other healer's large single target heal. Of course it has some uses in heroics and small-scale raids, but its usefulness declines as you move up in raids. And gear.


This 100%

montblanclol
12-07-2009, 12:50 PM
personally, the only time you will find a GHeal on my logs is at jaraxxus25 where usually i get a flash heal off and then a hasted GH on the flesh targets to help out with it.

there is no other situation where i could think GH was the best spell to use at any point in togc besides jaraxxus/flesh

MercenaryIII
12-08-2009, 12:25 AM
There we go, a valid point, the investment of talent points towards Greater Heal. After applying the talents I have, I apparently have a greater healing efficiency on my Greater Heal as compared to my Flash Heal as I mentioned (I spend 1 mana point to get about 9 health out of Greater Heal, 1 mana point to get 7 out of Flash Heal, if that makes any more sense, lol). I'm also just looking at priest heals, not comparing other classes, heh.

Thanks for your input guys / gals.

Gwenymph
12-21-2009, 06:33 PM
I have been pouring over some of the more progressed priest available in WoL and have come across something I'd like some help in. My HPS is very good, but some of my spells (not effected by IFH and EH respectively) in both specs are below the average with those in the same SPower/Crit range. Mainly CoH and PoM. The only thing I have come up with is that the site's ehps tracker is a greater weight for those who are primarily tank healing over raid healing. I'm on a very small server with no bleeding edge progression guild and appreciate any input.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis (http://worldoflogs.com/guilds/7651/rankings/players/)

Pls ignore the Anub fights but have at the rest.

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Tanaris&n=Gwenymph)

Wasn't totally sure if this was the correct spot, will also post in a new thread.

Martris
01-01-2010, 02:16 PM
Just wanted to say hi and say thanks for a great guide. Just hit 80 on Monday with my Priest and went straight into healing instances to get gear. Coming from a 80 Resto Druid it was very difference and guides like yours came in handy to help me get over the initial hump. Thanks, keep up the great work and I look forward to future posts/guides.

Yeshua
01-03-2010, 02:26 AM
Thank you for the guide.

I have a question that may be addressed elsewhere and if so, forgive me and point me in the right direct: I'm having issues with "OH SH!#" moments as a holy priest. I'm a new 80 and find that healing a well geared tank and smart DPS in 5 mans is a breeze, however, if I'm with a group that isn't quite as geared and/or smart, I tend to lose one or two or possibly, due to lack of heals, cause a wipe. What's a good strategy for situations like this (yes, I understand that in time I'll learn how to handle it but with the current game as it is, one is sort of thrust into situations rather than eased into). I've also had some problems with 10 mans as well (same "ut oh, think fast" moments). Any tips/hints/suggested would be greatly appreciated.

Amamaeth
01-03-2010, 06:43 AM
Thank you for the guide.

I have a question that may be addressed elsewhere and if so, forgive me and point me in the right direct: I'm having issues with "OH SH!#" moments as a holy priest. I'm a new 80 and find that healing a well geared tank and smart DPS in 5 mans is a breeze, however, if I'm with a group that isn't quite as geared and/or smart, I tend to lose one or two or possibly, due to lack of heals, cause a wipe. What's a good strategy for situations like this (yes, I understand that in time I'll learn how to handle it but with the current game as it is, one is sort of thrust into situations rather than eased into). I've also had some problems with 10 mans as well (same "ut oh, think fast" moments). Any tips/hints/suggested would be greatly appreciated.

Unfortunately there is no cure for stupid yet. When you get into a situation where your team isn't quite as geared as they should be then you will run into triage moments. In these instances it's going to be experience that will help you more then what anyone of us will say here. You are basically going to be choosing who lives and who dies, so when you go into this group pay attention to whose doing their job well, they are the ones you want to keep alive. Don't be afraid to use your cool downs either, the only time they are wasted is if you wipe and didn't use one. Remember binding heal is a great tool if you and someone else are taking damage. Always keep PoM out and don't be afraid to shield or renew people even if it's not great for your spec, the instant cast nature can be a life saver. Along the same lines, don't be afraid to use CoH to heal just one person, it's instant cast as well and can provide a buffer for another heal to land, or a hot to tick. You'll obviously only want to use this if you need an instant cast heal but the use is there.

Other then that it's practice and quick decision making.

Yeshua
01-04-2010, 01:43 AM
Unfortunately there is no cure for stupid yet. When you get into a situation where your team isn't quite as geared as they should be then you will run into triage moments. In these instances it's going to be experience that will help you more then what anyone of us will say here. You are basically going to be choosing who lives and who dies, so when you go into this group pay attention to whose doing their job well, they are the ones you want to keep alive. Don't be afraid to use your cool downs either, the only time they are wasted is if you wipe and didn't use one. Remember binding heal is a great tool if you and someone else are taking damage. Always keep PoM out and don't be afraid to shield or renew people even if it's not great for your spec, the instant cast nature can be a life saver. Along the same lines, don't be afraid to use CoH to heal just one person, it's instant cast as well and can provide a buffer for another heal to land, or a hot to tick. You'll obviously only want to use this if you need an instant cast heal but the use is there.

Other then that it's practice and quick decision making.

An excellent response and made sense; experience will have to prevail and until then, live and learn. I laughed at the start of you reply "Unfortunately there is no cure for stupid yet." In a recent pug raid where I was on my main and not healing, several people died and began "raging" against the healer. The tank/raid leader piped in and said, "Hey, don't blame the healer, she isn't spec'd to heal stupid."

Thank you for the tips and hints. I'm going to consider these as I progress.

And thank you for this site, hard to find up-to-date information for us noobs who are quite the crunchers that others are.

Amamaeth
01-04-2010, 07:22 AM
An excellent response and made sense; experience will have to prevail and until then, live and learn. I laughed at the start of you reply "Unfortunately there is no cure for stupid yet." In a recent pug raid where I was on my main and not healing, several people died and began "raging" against the healer. The tank/raid leader piped in and said, "Hey, don't blame the healer, she isn't spec'd to heal stupid."

Thank you for the tips and hints. I'm going to consider these as I progress.

And thank you for this site, hard to find up-to-date information for us noobs who are quite the crunchers that others are.

I actually wrote a much more detailed answer to this on my blog here: Don't Panic! - TankSpot (http://www.tankspot.com/forums/blogs/amamaeth/3076-dont-panic.html)

montblanclol
01-04-2010, 07:24 AM
An excellent response and made sense; experience will have to prevail and until then, live and learn. I laughed at the start of you reply "Unfortunately there is no cure for stupid yet." In a recent pug raid where I was on my main and not healing, several people died and began "raging" against the healer. The tank/raid leader piped in and said, "Hey, don't blame the healer, she isn't spec'd to heal stupid."

Thank you for the tips and hints. I'm going to consider these as I progress.

And thank you for this site, hard to find up-to-date information for us noobs who are quite the crunchers that others are.

the reply you got is pretty accurate. however remember theres always a priority on your heals. in a 5man theres 1tank 1healer 3 dps. priority is simply made by what death will cause you to wipe or what death will hurt your group the most. in this case, tank would be on top of the list, then you, and then the dps. for panic moments remember you want to follow this order (will take some time) and also with more experience as said before you will get better at anticipating damage. healing is all about anticipation. if you know where the damage is coming from, and to who, then it becomes easier. an example for a panic moment in my case would be to use my cooldowns. if you're going disc (which i like for 5mans unless you're holy and very well geared) then you could use Power Infusion on yourself, shield somebody, pain suppresion, and then inner focus + divine hymn will help you survive. remember in this moment you just want to survive, you dont really need to top anyone off. holy in the other hand you could try using binding heals, get hasted prayer of healings, use the guardian spirit accordingly, and again Inner Focus with Divine Hymn. always remember its very important to use FADE. in this kind of situations aggro is most likely an issue and you'll be healing by a ton in a very short amount of time. every single healing priest should have fade on their bars so you don't die ;)

also id like to add that you shouldn't really hate the 'stupid'. those that stand in the fires are the ones that are making you a good healer actually. making your reaction better, your anticipation better, and overall they're making you a very strong healer. when you get to a decent experience/skill level a big part of that is the people that was standing in the fires with a crappy geared tank always bouncing in half hp making you actually think and take the best decision in matter of milliseconds

good luck!

FullofHeal
01-04-2010, 06:37 PM
As stated before, WONDROUS guide. I was having a real hard time healing, pushing Greater Heal, having no clue what I was doing..then I found this guide. GREAT!

I want to backup Aliena's assertion that Holy Priests are not tank healers. We're not. Sure, in light instances, we can Renew/PoM all day...no worry, no major mana pool. But get in the thick of it?

A fine example is the Sparring area of Shattered Halls. That place is a nightmare. Tanks drop health like rain. PoM/Renew/Flash healing, rinse, repeat, pray like heck you don't run out of mana, even with a great tank. It's tough.

My 80 Priest guildies confirm this..they have the same problem.

I'm almost 75, but I'm focusing on Outlands Heroics to get the healing rhythm to a science. I've been there Yeshua, and it's horrible, but Amamaeth is right on the money: Keep the tank alive at all costs, unless there's a DPS (say, a Paladin) who can pick up the pieces and keep things moving.

NEVER be afraid to let a party member die for the sake of the party. I've never, in over 30+ Outlands Heroics, ever had a party member cry about dying when everyone else lived, when it came down to the wire.

Liandrus
01-06-2010, 09:41 PM
This is a great guide but I personally have one disagreement. I think that Renew is an incredibly useful spell and shouldn't be missed speccing on with Talents. I often use a combo of PW:S and Renew, especially if I see my tank is losing health to fast for me to get a Flash Heal out. While the PW:S and Renew is keeping him safe for a few seconds I can whack off a Flash Heal. By the time the second Flash Heal lands the PW:S is knocked off, third Flash Heal incoming and lands and then I have a full Serendipity stack to use for a Greater Heal or if the entire group has been hit with damage a PoH.

I really find Renew to be a very very useful spell to use and one I don't think Priests should avoid and dismiss, especially once it has gained its talent points it really is an amazing spell to have in your arsenal.

Liandrus
01-06-2010, 09:45 PM
And sorry for the double post but wanted to comment on healing priority. My healing priority is really simple. Tank > Healer > {DPS}. The reason why DPS is in brackets is that within DPS you can have priority. Plate > Mail > Leather > Cloth

If your tank is doing fine but the DPS are suffering then my first heal to DPS will be the plate wearers, then mail, leather and lastly cloth. Simple reason is that if the tank does go down the Plate guys are better capable if filling in as a tank until I can res the MT.

Amamaeth
01-07-2010, 08:13 AM
This is a great guide but I personally have one disagreement. I think that Renew is an incredibly useful spell and shouldn't be missed speccing on with Talents. I often use a combo of PW:S and Renew, especially if I see my tank is losing health to fast for me to get a Flash Heal out. While the PW:S and Renew is keeping him safe for a few seconds I can whack off a Flash Heal. By the time the second Flash Heal lands the PW:S is knocked off, third Flash Heal incoming and lands and then I have a full Serendipity stack to use for a Greater Heal or if the entire group has been hit with damage a PoH.

I really find Renew to be a very very useful spell to use and one I don't think Priests should avoid and dismiss, especially once it has gained its talent points it really is an amazing spell to have in your arsenal.

1.) Did you read the guide? Aliena didn't dismiss it or anything like that, she said, quite clearly that it is a filler spell that you can use at your preference. That is exactly what renew is.
2.) Did you need to post this here? You already made a thread about renew and there was plenty of information in there.

SŚrskorpan
01-11-2010, 04:48 PM
For one measly point you get the most powerful spell in our arsenal, our most mana-efficient spell, not to mention a trademark to our class, and you gave it no love!

Aliena
01-11-2010, 09:52 PM
lolwell

I'll give it love when other people give it enough love to click it, ever.

Enfermera
01-16-2010, 09:35 PM
I preface this post with the realization that this is an old thread, however many things are now out of date for GEARED Holy Priests especially.

First and most important, the stat priority seems to be personal choice here based more on regen rather than throughput. Intellect in no way, shape, or form is more important to you than spellpower. Secondly you can't even GET a piece of gear without intellect, while you CAN get a piece without spirit. Intellect is like stamina when it comes to gear....who cares....it all has the same amount per tier. When it comes to gems you should be gemming according to slot bonuses as they are all SP with the exception of a few pieces like some bracers and the new exalted ashen verdict ring. This means Luminous Ametrine=Yellow, Purified Dreadstone=Blue, Runed Cardinal=Red. If you get desperate in early gearing you may want to use Purified's in your red slots as well.

You have the potential to be the best healer in your guild period. If you stop listening to people who tell you to rarely use GH. This was true for a time where PoH was more heals and mana issues were common. The fight mehanics in ICC provide both types of damage single target and raid-wide. I am surely not going to cast PoH to heal 2 targets taking cleaves from Marrowgar, instead I will back up my pally healer with triple cast Flash and burn my GH on the next cleave to the opposite tank from my pally's target. I see a lot of guilds still 3 healing ICC10. Get a good H Priest and drop in another dps so you can try for some achieves.
Inner focus-- is completely useless once you reach 3400+ sp and 860+ regen which happens after your first piece of t10 assuming you geared up to ToGC 10 content. We have a ton of healing specs in our guild and our raid comps are always varied. I have found no use for inner focus since I was a fresh face in ToC 25 reg.

Holy Nova-- is yet another instant cast that crits for 3900. I find loads of use for this in fights like Crazy Cat Lady achievement, or when you are stepping down in content you are having ease healing to do some dps as well as heal a group. Nova/CoH on Faction Champs is pimp due to the pvp like atmosphere of the fight. Holy Priests are all about situational heals, that must be why we have 10 healing spells, 6 attacks, 2 cc, 4 cleanse/dispell, fear ward and frostweave bandages. If YOU can't find a place for it because you prefer doing something else and not positioning yourself so it is effective just say that. Not that it is nerfed or useless, because it is not. I have been using the hell out of it on putricide during the transitions from each slime as we are all grouped up on the green ooze's target. BINGO NEW CONTENT USEAGE! As you get the pushback from the explosion if you fail to kill it prior to it reaching the target on lockdown just cast Nova as soon as you get hit and CoH on the fly back and your lowest health raid members are back in business for easy pick-ups when they get the ground to pick up dps. Or you can make it hard on yourself and try to renew everyone prior to the explosion and hope CoH is enough while you fly up in the air. I prefer skill over prayer though.

Lightweave embroidery--is also a must for the geared H Priest. While darkglow has served us well through the our mana troubles of the past lightweave is what our healing hearts have always desired. Again if you find your regen over ~870 (and most definately over 900) with 3300+ sp there isn't anything released in ICC 10 or 25 that shoud be giving you mana problemsas of the date of this post (Plagueworks). Now if you aren't releasing you shadow fiend early in you mana pool drops that is your fault and you need to start doing it sooner so that it has a chance to be up again during your longer encounters. 23 haste to cloak is a poor option. Our haste needs are next to nil. You should get WAY more than enough haste to give you a 1.27 sec Flash Heal with the new t10 items. Your PoH and GH should be sitting at ~1.5 sec with serendipity stacked. You can't improve that much more without nerfing your crit to under 20%.

Ember Skyflare Diamond--I see no other option with the new stats on our t10 items. My mana pool sits at 26,900 self-buffed when gemming sp/spirit and sp/int and sp according to color bonuses. 25 direct SP and 2% MORE intellect on an ever increasing base mana pool. Also translates to more crit. Haven't seen the numbers, but I guarantee the two other options listed in this guide do not benefit us any longer. We do not need a 2% mana increase any longer nor do we need chance to proc mana on spellcast. If you need more mana regen get the Sliver of Pure Ice trinket and use it often. If you are Horde-side then you should be a blood-elf as a holy priest purely for arcane torrent if you are more into/serious about raiding than pvp or other content.

18 Spirit enchant on boots--A MUST. This is a througput stat with Spiritual Guidance. I think Aleina was attempting to catch us off gaurd with Tuskkar's. This is a pvp Disc enchant at best and passed over at worst. 18 Spirit is as close as you come to spell power on boots. I would even take Icewalker for the Crit if you find yourself low on Crit ie below 24% self-buffed.

Glyphs--3 Slots. Well that's good bacause we only have 3 options. CoH, PoH, and Renew. For all the renew haters out there. I'll transfer to your server and join your guild and see what skada and recount say about my 3/3 imp renew glyphed H Priest vs. your so-called h (note the lower case) priest. Renew is a BEAST. There is SO much drip drip drip damage that I like to steal from the druids in my guild and renew work perfectly for this. *With the new 2p set bonus and BiS haste increases WAY past numbers we are used to Glyphed Flash may become useful to the t10'd Priest.

2nd tier talents-- I will agree with this at present but my thoughts will probably change once I settle into 600+ haste on my full t10 gear. Having a damn near 1 sec GH with serendipity is BEYOND SICK. But currently I agree with Aleina on taking Warding over Fury. I want to reitterate that my opinions will probably change foreseeing the haste increases on BiS.

PW:S-- I took note to the fact that she lists this a spell not cast that often and puts it in a less accessible binding. I STRONGLY disagree with this. Even though you aren't disc PW:S is a huge part of being a healing priest. I cast it more often than binding heal as I rarely take damage not cured buy CoH or PoH or a quick renew if it is steady, and about as often as PoH is cast from my combat logs. There is no reason to neglect your damage reduction ability especially in ICC where backing up the tank heals with PW:S+Renew is necessary in several fights. If you run xperl or any raid frame addon that shows increasing aggro (omen for that matter) and especially if you lack a disc in a 10m or only 1 in a 25 you should be shielding often. If you find you have your hands full healing and can't incorporate damage negation in yor rotatio and know you are doing your job as a geared H Priest you should look at the other healers or guild understanding of the fight mechanics for a rational explanation.

Good guide, but just outdated now. Hopefully she gets around to updating it soon.

Aliena
01-17-2010, 12:53 AM
I preface this post with the realization that this is an old thread, however many things are now out of date for GEARED Holy Priests especially.

First and most important, the stat priority seems to be personal choice here based more on regen rather than throughput. Intellect in no way, shape, or form is more important to you than spellpower. Secondly you can't even GET a piece of gear without intellect, while you CAN get a piece without spirit. Intellect is like stamina when it comes to gear....who cares....it all has the same amount per tier. When it comes to gems you should be gemming according to slot bonuses as they are all SP with the exception of a few pieces like some bracers and the new exalted ashen verdict ring. This means Luminous Ametrine=Yellow, Purified Dreadstone=Blue, Runed Cardinal=Red. If you get desperate in early gearing you may want to use Purified's in your red slots as well.

You have the potential to be the best healer in your guild period. If you stop listening to people who tell you to rarely use GH. This was true for a time where PoH was more heals and mana issues were common. The fight mehanics in ICC provide both types of damage single target and raid-wide. I am surely not going to cast PoH to heal 2 targets taking cleaves from Marrowgar, instead I will back up my pally healer with triple cast Flash and burn my GH on the next cleave to the opposite tank from my pally's target. I see a lot of guilds still 3 healing ICC10. Get a good H Priest and drop in another dps so you can try for some achieves.
Inner focus-- is completely useless once you reach 3400+ sp and 860+ regen which happens after your first piece of t10 assuming you geared up to ToGC 10 content. We have a ton of healing specs in our guild and our raid comps are always varied. I have found no use for inner focus since I was a fresh face in ToC 25 reg.

Holy Nova-- is yet another instant cast that crits for 3900. I find loads of use for this in fights like Crazy Cat Lady achievement, or when you are stepping down in content you are having ease healing to do some dps as well as heal a group. Nova/CoH on Faction Champs is pimp due to the pvp like atmosphere of the fight. Holy Priests are all about situational heals, that must be why we have 10 healing spells, 6 attacks, 2 cc, 4 cleanse/dispell, fear ward and frostweave bandages. If YOU can't find a place for it because you prefer doing something else and not positioning yourself so it is effective just say that. Not that it is nerfed or useless, because it is not. I have been using the hell out of it on putricide during the transitions from each slime as we are all grouped up on the green ooze's target. BINGO NEW CONTENT USEAGE! As you get the pushback from the explosion if you fail to kill it prior to it reaching the target on lockdown just cast Nova as soon as you get hit and CoH on the fly back and your lowest health raid members are back in business for easy pick-ups when they get the ground to pick up dps. Or you can make it hard on yourself and try to renew everyone prior to the explosion and hope CoH is enough while you fly up in the air. I prefer skill over prayer though.

Lightweave embroidery--is also a must for the geared H Priest. While darkglow has served us well through the our mana troubles of the past lightweave is what our healing hearts have always desired. Again if you find your regen over ~870 (and most definately over 900) with 3300+ sp there isn't anything released in ICC 10 or 25 that shoud be giving you mana problemsas of the date of this post (Plagueworks). Now if you aren't releasing you shadow fiend early in you mana pool drops that is your fault and you need to start doing it sooner so that it has a chance to be up again during your longer encounters. 23 haste to cloak is a poor option. Our haste needs are next to nil. You should get WAY more than enough haste to give you a 1.27 sec Flash Heal with the new t10 items. Your PoH and GH should be sitting at ~1.5 sec with serendipity stacked. You can't improve that much more without nerfing your crit to under 20%.

Ember Skyflare Diamond--I see no other option with the new stats on our t10 items. My mana pool sits at 26,900 self-buffed when gemming sp/spirit and sp/int and sp according to color bonuses. 25 direct SP and 2% MORE intellect on an ever increasing base mana pool. Also translates to more crit. Haven't seen the numbers, but I guarantee the two other options listed in this guide do not benefit us any longer. We do not need a 2% mana increase any longer nor do we need chance to proc mana on spellcast. If you need more mana regen get the Sliver of Pure Ice trinket and use it often. If you are Horde-side then you should be a blood-elf as a holy priest purely for arcane torrent if you are more into/serious about raiding than pvp or other content.

18 Spirit enchant on boots--A MUST. This is a througput stat with Spiritual Guidance. I think Aleina was attempting to catch us off gaurd with Tuskkar's. This is a pvp Disc enchant at best and passed over at worst. 18 Spirit is as close as you come to spell power on boots. I would even take Icewalker for the Crit if you find yourself low on Crit ie below 24% self-buffed.

Glyphs--3 Slots. Well that's good bacause we only have 3 options. CoH, PoH, and Renew. For all the renew haters out there. I'll transfer to your server and join your guild and see what skada and recount say about my 3/3 imp renew glyphed H Priest vs. your so-called h (note the lower case) priest. Renew is a BEAST. There is SO much drip drip drip damage that I like to steal from the druids in my guild and renew work perfectly for this. *With the new 2p set bonus and BiS haste increases WAY past numbers we are used to Glyphed Flash may become useful to the t10'd Priest.

2nd tier talents-- I will agree with this at present but my thoughts will probably change once I settle into 600+ haste on my full t10 gear. Having a damn near 1 sec GH with serendipity is BEYOND SICK. But currently I agree with Aleina on taking Warding over Fury. I want to reitterate that my opinions will probably change foreseeing the haste increases on BiS.

PW:S-- I took note to the fact that she lists this a spell not cast that often and puts it in a less accessible binding. I STRONGLY disagree with this. Even though you aren't disc PW:S is a huge part of being a healing priest. I cast it more often than binding heal as I rarely take damage not cured buy CoH or PoH or a quick renew if it is steady, and about as often as PoH is cast from my combat logs. There is no reason to neglect your damage reduction ability especially in ICC where backing up the tank heals with PW:S+Renew is necessary in several fights. If you run xperl or any raid frame addon that shows increasing aggro (omen for that matter) and especially if you lack a disc in a 10m or only 1 in a 25 you should be shielding often. If you find you have your hands full healing and can't incorporate damage negation in yor rotatio and know you are doing your job as a geared H Priest you should look at the other healers or guild understanding of the fight mechanics for a rational explanation.

Good guide, but just outdated now. Hopefully she gets around to updating it soon.

No. You need to seriously do some reading. Two points you're right on are spellpower and lightweave, but keep in mind this is a beginner guide, not for people in T10. Somehow I doubt these will need a holy guide.

Holy PW:S is a terrible waste of a global for a 2k damage prevention that could be spent so much better, 18 Spirit on boots is a terrible enchant compared to Tuskarr's movement speed enhancement, Renew glyph is a waste 9 times out of 10, GH is still terribly inefficient, you get so much less out of Ember than you do out of Insightful - if you want throughput replace Darkweave with Lightweave but keep the Insightful, that's just about the best way you can go, mana regen is still a non-issue in T10 and I still never have to tank heal 'cause our tank healers pull their weight so I have no idea what you're talking about.

Spiritus
01-17-2010, 11:12 AM
Ewww.... throughput RNG makes me a sad panda. Darkglow 4 life. =)

Doc309
01-17-2010, 11:18 AM
<snip>
Good guide, but just outdated now. Hopefully she gets around to updating it soon.

sad that tank spot has devolved into this and endless arguements about Fol HL.

Doc

Symian
01-17-2010, 08:10 PM
"PW:S-- I took note to the fact that she lists this a spell not cast that often and puts it in a less accessible binding. I STRONGLY disagree with this. Even though you aren't disc PW:S is a huge part of being a healing priest. I cast it more often than binding heal as I rarely take damage not cured buy CoH or PoH or a quick renew if it is steady, and about as often as PoH is cast from my combat logs. There is no reason to neglect your damage reduction ability especially in ICC where backing up the tank heals with PW:S+Renew is necessary in several fights. If you run xperl or any raid frame addon that shows increasing aggro (omen for that matter) and especially if you lack a disc in a 10m or only 1 in a 25 you should be shielding often. If you find you have your hands full healing and can't incorporate damage negation in yor rotatio and know you are doing your job as a geared H Priest you should look at the other healers or guild understanding of the fight mechanics for a rational explanation."

The only time I have have ever casted PW:S as holy in raids was in the Hodir 10k Hc, and then it was talented for Body and Soul to help ppl move out of the ice.

Aliena, What is the best way to practice healing as a disc/holy priest and measure how good you are. As DPS you have the target dummies avialable in most Cities but has a healer you don't have this option.

Amamaeth
01-17-2010, 08:52 PM
Nothing really you can do Symian aside from instancing as much as possible. Measuring how good you are is a measurement on how often your assignments die and then how much utility you can also provide the raid if you don't need to heal your assignment. This is why it's really hard to pin down who is really good at healing compared to who is just performing adequately.

On the other hand, if you are doing like a main tank healing rotation and you want to just practice it, you can just pick someone at random and start healing away.

Symian
01-18-2010, 03:07 AM
Ofcourse the only problem with 5 mans in WoLK tank until HoR there wasn't any that really tested healers :/

SŚrskorpan
01-18-2010, 03:11 AM
@symian

Did you keep the raid alive even though your fellow healers stood in fire the whole time? Then you are probably a good healer.
Did you feel on par with a healer you know is a good? Then you are probably a good healer as well.
Did you keep the undergeared tank and his posse of aggromonkies alive during the heroic? Without a sweat? Then you know your healing.

Did you come second after the druid assigned to raidhealing? Don't worry, the barkskin was a meterwhore =)

Symian
01-18-2010, 04:23 AM
@ SŚrskorpan well am normally disc...so am assinged to tanks which I can normally keep up 99.999% of the time.

And I love it when I get undergeared or mass pulling tanks in heroic....it normally means I can do something other then watch 3 DPS and 1 tank destroy everything....and although I shouldn;t sometimes I play a little game called "How low can they go":) Just 'cause I get bored in heroic 5 mans :(

Brittmari
01-18-2010, 08:41 AM
Holy PW:S

I find PW:S as a holy priest an excellent tool for the bosses our guild has no trouble with. Popping it on the tank proccing Weakened Soul is a great way to snipe heals from the disc priest to keep you on top of the meter when there isn't a lot of AoE raid damage.

Symian
01-18-2010, 10:11 AM
Holy PW:S

I find PW:S as a holy priest an excellent tool for the bosses our guild has no trouble with. Popping it on the tank proccing Weakened Soul is a great way to snipe heals from the disc priest to keep you on top of the meter when there isn't a lot of AoE raid damage.

..Why would you want to snipe heals...its pointless and a waste of time surely you talents/mana/skills are better used else where...and you don't always have to top HPS..

Nicki
01-18-2010, 10:44 AM
Holy PW:S

I find PW:S as a holy priest an excellent tool for the bosses our guild has no trouble with. Popping it on the tank proccing Weakened Soul is a great way to snipe heals from the disc priest to keep you on top of the meter when there isn't a lot of AoE raid damage.

That is disc's mana regen, you realise this right? some team player you are....

Fawkes
01-19-2010, 07:47 AM
i was just wondering witch addons you were using and if i could get a list?

Amamaeth
01-19-2010, 07:53 AM
i was just wondering witch addons you were using and if i could get a list?

Try reading her signature ;)

Koyanis
01-25-2010, 06:19 AM
Firstly, a pet hate of mine is people who respond to posts about raiding, then lapse into 5man healing talk, then back into raiding, then old content, then new; really the focus needs to be on ONE of them, or be generic; its so very confusing for new healers or casual readers when they are being bombarded with 10 different bits of advice; Alienas post was made as a guide, im sure this has been stated many times - and thats exactly what it is and does.
It was never toted as the difinitive guide to hardcore hardmode elite progress raiding maga-ness for team lightening thunderstrike deathstar six!

Sorry for the quote-spam!




. I am surely not going to cast PoH to heal 2 targets taking cleaves from Marrowgar, instead I will back up my pally healer with triple cast Flash and burn my GH on the next cleave to the opposite tank from my pally's target.
.
Whilst im not against ever denying one of our spells; unless somthing has gone wrong this shouldn't be needed, its situational but perhaps you can use it just prior to a bonestorm when you know they will likely all be hit by his initial (albeit small damage) whirl; if you are contributing a renew to the mt's then your probably doing enough.
If you have to contribute more, dont expect it to be like that for long its more than likely a gearing and experience on that fight issue for the time-being.



. I have found no use for inner focus since I was a fresh face in ToC 25 reg.

The standard use, macro it into your Hymn usage and there are many uses for it; off the top of my head; Blight exhale on festergut; somthing goes wrong on bloodprinces or with the brow gas-coulds on pp, Bloodqueen; mabye 2 raid-healers are linked; several places this could be used.
Its one point; maybe its not amazingly often used, but Im open to suggestions where this 1 point might be better used? :P




Holy Nova-- I find loads of use for this in fights like Crazy Cat Lady achievement, or when you are stepping down in content you are having ease healing to do some dps as well as heal a group. Nova/CoH on Faction Champs is pimp due to the pvp like atmosphere of the fight.
I have been using the hell out of it on putricide during the transitions from each slime as we are all grouped up on the green ooze's target. BINGO NEW CONTENT USEAGE! As you get the pushback from the explosion if you fail to kill it prior to it reaching the target on lockdown just cast Nova as soon as you get hit and CoH on the fly back and your lowest health raid members are back in business for easy pick-ups when they get the ground to pick up dps. Or you can make it hard on yourself and try to renew everyone prior to the explosion and hope CoH is enough while you fly up in the air. I prefer skill over prayer though.

You go from "this is not update for geared holy priests" to then talking about old content again; however, yes it works nicely on said fight; but its not mana efficient and its not going to heal all those other people NOT in your group; for your pp example; by running in close (we also use the cleave tactic on 25man) you are adding 1 more person to the pile likely to get targeted adding to an insta-explode, you should be hanging back with the healers increasing the chance it targets a ranged person; if it does explode, CoH is not a "hope/prayer" ability; its a clever-heal and will heal up the lowest hp people first; you can even have a PoH ready for immediatly after, you can have used a PrOm on them before the explosion and probably have a FH for any stargglers; you will certainly be doing more than your share of healing in that situation with those heals; and you will be keeping yourself safe, mobile and not flying across the room!



18 Spirit enchant on boots--A MUST. This is a througput stat with Spiritual Guidance. I think Aleina was attempting to catch us off gaurd with Tuskkar's. This is a pvp Disc enchant at best and passed over at worst. 18 Spirit is as close as you come to spell power on boots. I would even take Icewalker for the Crit if you find yourself low on Crit ie below 24% self-buffed.

Tuskars tuskars tuskars (or slack like me and rocket boots)



Glyphs--3 Slots. Well that's good bacause we only have 3 options. CoH, PoH, and Renew. For all the renew haters out there. I'll transfer to your server and join your guild and see what skada and recount say about my 3/3 imp renew glyphed H Priest vs. your so-called h (note the lower case) priest. Renew is a BEAST. There is SO much drip drip drip damage that I like to steal from the druids in my guild and renew work perfectly for this. *With the new 2p set bonus and BiS haste increases WAY past numbers we are used to Glyphed Flash may become useful to the t10'd Priest.

renew is nice yes; but our t-10 kinda merges it with our fh; it shouldn't be removed from use. i dont have mana problems so dont glyph flash anyway - and you should not be "stealing heals" thats not teamwork; you should be working synergistically with your healers, if heal stealing occurs frequently your lead-healer/assignments could be improved on to stop this.



PW:S-- I took note to the fact that she lists this a spell not cast that often and puts it in a less accessible binding. I STRONGLY disagree with this. Even though you aren't disc PW:S is a huge part of being a healing priest. I cast it more often than binding heal as I rarely take damage not cured buy CoH or PoH or a quick renew if it is steady, and about as often as PoH is cast from my combat logs. There is no reason to neglect your damage reduction ability especially in ICC where backing up the tank heals with PW:S+Renew

we always run with a disc priest; most guilds do - so pw:s the tank makes you unpopular.
I do however have a spec with B&S and have duties like, shielding the brown-gas cloud target(pp); the spored person (fester), the infected person (rotface), the fire kiter (Bloodprinces), one of the linked people(blood-queen) and so on; to make use of this spell; its totaly not needed; but its nice, very nice to have, if you can afford to take the points.
Otherwise as a general healing spell for holy its not wonderful.


Apologies if I came across agressive; I do love a good debate!

wingsofscion
01-26-2010, 04:57 PM
Inner focus-- is completely useless once you reach 3400+ sp and 860+ regen which happens after your first piece of t10 assuming you geared up to ToGC 10 content. We have a ton of healing specs in our guild and our raid comps are always varied. I have found no use for inner focus since I was a fresh face in ToC 25 reg.

I dunno about you, but I actually macro Inner Focus (along with Berserking, and any haste-click trinket I have if I have one equipped) to PoH. PoH is a fairly costly spell all things considered, and I usually only *need* to use Divine Hymn in Angel Form (and by that time, it's generally a wipe, or we're hitting an enrage timer). More crits on PoH = more chances for Inspiration, SoL and HC procs (this is especially valuable during Twins in ToC and Festergut in ICC). Hitting up to and over 10k crits on PoH is amazing if it hits a tank.


Ember Skyflare Diamond--I see no other option with the new stats on our t10 items. My mana pool sits at 26,900 self-buffed when gemming sp/spirit and sp/int and sp according to color bonuses. 25 direct SP and 2% MORE intellect on an ever increasing base mana pool. Also translates to more crit. Haven't seen the numbers, but I guarantee the two other options listed in this guide do not benefit us any longer. We do not need a 2% mana increase any longer nor do we need chance to proc mana on spellcast. If you need more mana regen get the Sliver of Pure Ice trinket and use it often. If you are Horde-side then you should be a blood-elf as a holy priest purely for arcane torrent if you are more into/serious about raiding than pvp or other content.

Arcane Torrent? Seriously? No other option? Apologies here, but Berserking has served me well, especially during Bloodlust. Cranking out PoH's with less than one second cast time (3 stack Serendipity) is just amazing. But then, I'm a haste mongerer.


18 Spirit enchant on boots--A MUST. This is a througput stat with Spiritual Guidance. I think Aleina was attempting to catch us off gaurd with Tuskkar's. This is a pvp Disc enchant at best and passed over at worst. 18 Spirit is as close as you come to spell power on boots. I would even take Icewalker for the Crit if you find yourself low on Crit ie below 24% self-buffed.

Consider in BC your boot enchants for healers were Boar's Speed and Vitality. It's essentially the same thing with different names. If you don't have problems getting out of the fire, or actually need the throughput, then 18 Spirit is fine. However, Tuskarr's Vitalty is technically better in the long run.


Glyphs--3 Slots. Well that's good bacause we only have 3 options. CoH, PoH, and Renew. For all the renew haters out there. I'll transfer to your server and join your guild and see what skada and recount say about my 3/3 imp renew glyphed H Priest vs. your so-called h (note the lower case) priest. Renew is a BEAST. There is SO much drip drip drip damage that I like to steal from the druids in my guild and renew work perfectly for this. *With the new 2p set bonus and BiS haste increases WAY past numbers we are used to Glyphed Flash may become useful to the t10'd Priest.

Eh, Glyph of Renew is okay at best. I ran Glyph of Renew until hitting Deathwhisper 25. Prayer of Healing is a way better glyph in my opinion (I run GS, CoH and PoH now). I don't see any reason not to use GS glyph at all, personally, but at any rate, Glyph of Renew isn't that great if you're raid healing certain encounters (Gunship is easily healed with PoM and Druid HoTs, Festergut needs more use of PoH/CoH, etc.). Besides that, sniping heals is really not the most effective or efficient way to go about it. My Renews usually go on the tanks, and depending on the fight, healers and some dps.


2nd tier talents-- I will agree with this at present but my thoughts will probably change once I settle into 600+ haste on my full t10 gear. Having a damn near 1 sec GH with serendipity is BEYOND SICK. But currently I agree with Aleina on taking Warding over Fury. I want to reitterate that my opinions will probably change foreseeing the haste increases on BiS.

I have nearly 700 haste now and only have a few pieces of t10 (helm, shoulders, weapon, belt). I don't personally have much use for either of the 2nd tier talents, but then, I like to Holy Fire and Smite things in my downtime (no, I don't have much regen issue, and yes, I tend to top heal charts, and if we're wiping, it's usually due to dps being retarded).


PW:S-- I took note to the fact that she lists this a spell not cast that often and puts it in a less accessible binding. I STRONGLY disagree with this. Even though you aren't disc PW:S is a huge part of being a healing priest. I cast it more often than binding heal as I rarely take damage not cured buy CoH or PoH or a quick renew if it is steady, and about as often as PoH is cast from my combat logs. There is no reason to neglect your damage reduction ability especially in ICC where backing up the tank heals with PW:S+Renew is necessary in several fights. If you run xperl or any raid frame addon that shows increasing aggro (omen for that matter) and especially if you lack a disc in a 10m or only 1 in a 25 you should be shielding often. If you find you have your hands full healing and can't incorporate damage negation in yor rotatio and know you are doing your job as a geared H Priest you should look at the other healers or guild understanding of the fight mechanics for a rational explanation.

You know where I shield lots? Saurfang and Marrowgar, but mostly Saurfang, even if we are running heavy on priests (which is most of the time). You know where I don't shield much at all? Everywhere else.

Enfermera
02-09-2010, 12:46 PM
Holy PW:S

I find PW:S as a holy priest an excellent tool for the bosses our guild has no trouble with. Popping it on the tank proccing Weakened Soul is a great way to snipe heals from the disc priest to keep you on top of the meter when there isn't a lot of AoE raid damage.

If you think PW:S on holy is a waste of a globa you must have lost your mind. A: we run with 2 pallys in our 25 and no disc. B: Holy Priest worrying about GCD with surge and 4 instants? Capital LOL. This is a wonderful spell to pre-buff a tank before encounter or threat-pulls, taunts on Festergut, and so many more places it's hard to list. Being holy is about being diverse, that must be why we have so many healing spells with range, aoe, single-target, negation, instants, time-casts, you name it, we got it. If you can't find the opportunity to use one of you spells, look for it. It's there. They all come in handy in ever raid/party every time.
Comment about GH. You should really take a look at sernedipity with t10 haste. GH is back in business. If you are casting PoH by default to use serendipity then you must be waiting for raid damage to occur many times. Otherwise you should be burning your 'dipity through GH. It's damn near a second when talented for fury. I never have mana issues any longer so it isn't about conservation...all-be-it we haven't fought LK yet.

Aliena
02-09-2010, 01:35 PM
I'd much rather use that global on something that does more than put a 2k shield on someone, like a 9k PoM or a 6-7k Fheal, not to mention most guilds run with a disc priest, so pre-shielding a tank before a pull is a no-no. If you don't run with a disc priest, by all means pre-shield before a battle, not like you have anything else to do before it starts. Mid-fight though, it's a waste unless you're running somewhere and are all out of other instants to cast.

The problem with Gheal, as I've stated many times, is that it takes up THIRTEEN talent points in order to be useful. Those talent points, for a raid healer, are much better spent in other places unless you want to severely gimp your raid healing ability. GHeal will never be "back in business" when other spells do its job so much better. That said, I'm not discarding that it has use especially in 10-man raids when you have to do some emergency tank healing. I've also said this many times, so I don't know why people like to skip over this.

Sniping heals from someone is not something you want to do to benefit anything but your own silly ego. You want to benefit the raid and down bosses? Let the disc priest handle shielding tanks. Raiding is about synergy and teamwork, not your e-peen.

I love the versatility and spell arsenal of priests. I also love making the best of it and using it efficiently. Now, what you do is you go and say "OMG YOU SAID THIS IS BAD BUT I JUST USED IT AND IT HEALED SOMEONE". Of course it healed someone. Of course you can use it. You might not even run out of mana spamming greater heal. But you're not considering the big picture and math and efficiency behind it. The reason I discourage mid-battle use of PW:S and to an extent, Gheal; is that it severely gimps your throughput as a raid healer and you should trust your tank healers to do their job just fine. If they don't do their job, you have other problems you have to address in your guild anyway. In PW:S's case, it even gimps any disc healer that might be in the raid along with you.

TL;DR: PW:S & GHeal are fine for emergencies, esp. in 10-mans. There almost always are better spells to cast for a holy priest, though.

Spiritus
02-09-2010, 05:14 PM
My caveat to the Holy/PW:S thing as a Disc priest: I heart holy priests who know how to use B&S and execute it well. Feel free to shield w/e appropriate around me. Never, however, shield the MT... or I keel you.

Aliena
02-09-2010, 06:20 PM
Oh, yes, forgot about that. Body and Soul of course is a good excuse to use PW:S.

chun
02-17-2010, 05:19 PM
This seems like an appropriate place to ask this question :)

On my priest I bounce between holy and disc (while keeping a shadow offspec).
I've seen a lot of recommendations for "gemming haste" as a holy priest. Not
necessarily straight-haste, but things like +spellpower/haste gems etc.

What I don't really understand, is "why" is haste valued so highly as holy?
CoH = instant cast
PoM = instant cast
Renew = instant cast
and Gheal/PoH gets a lot faster with a serendipty stack or two.

Is the haste motivation for getting flash heal down and decreasing
PoH times? for those times you don't have serendipity?

Thanks in advance for any insight!!!

Ps. I finally dropped my flash heal glyph for PoH and wow. For those
cases where you can predict raid damage (hi2 toravon) it's amazing!

Cheers.

Amamaeth
02-17-2010, 10:47 PM
This seems like an appropriate place to ask this question :)

On my priest I bounce between holy and disc (while keeping a shadow offspec).
I've seen a lot of recommendations for "gemming haste" as a holy priest. Not
necessarily straight-haste, but things like +spellpower/haste gems etc.

What I don't really understand, is "why" is haste valued so highly as holy?
CoH = instant cast
PoM = instant cast
Renew = instant cast
and Gheal/PoH gets a lot faster with a serendipty stack or two.

Is the haste motivation for getting flash heal down and decreasing
PoH times? for those times you don't have serendipity?

Thanks in advance for any insight!!!

Ps. I finally dropped my flash heal glyph for PoH and wow. For those
cases where you can predict raid damage (hi2 toravon) it's amazing!

Cheers.

There's actually a couple answers for that, depending on where you are at gear wise and what spells you are using. If you still use flash as your main filler it's to lower the spellcast to match the global cooldown. If you are using a renew style play, as apparently more high end priests are doing, it's to lower PoH's cast without serendipity. Since you won't be casting flash as much you won't have the stack readily available as you would otherwise. Some priests are even dropping it completely from their spec.

...and even with serendipity, the faster you can get PoH off, the better.

Liandrus
02-19-2010, 12:04 AM
This seems like an appropriate place to ask this question :)

On my priest I bounce between holy and disc (while keeping a shadow offspec).
I've seen a lot of recommendations for "gemming haste" as a holy priest. Not
necessarily straight-haste, but things like +spellpower/haste gems etc.

What I don't really understand, is "why" is haste valued so highly as holy?
CoH = instant cast
PoM = instant cast
Renew = instant cast
and Gheal/PoH gets a lot faster with a serendipty stack or two.

Is the haste motivation for getting flash heal down and decreasing
PoH times? for those times you don't have serendipity?

Thanks in advance for any insight!!!

Ps. I finally dropped my flash heal glyph for PoH and wow. For those
cases where you can predict raid damage (hi2 toravon) it's amazing!

Cheers.

Essentially any time spent casting is time spent with the other player taking probably more damage before your spell hits. Most single target healing a Holy Priest does is reactive, i.e. when the player actually takes damage. We have one single target, instant heal but its a HoT. By reducing the casting time further, your Flash Heals and Greater Heals will land faster after that reaction, meaning that the chance they will get hit again while you are casting and perhaps killing them is lessened. Also, the faster you can clobber someone with heals, thanks to increased haste, the faster you can get them back up. In addition, with AoE heals like Prayer of Healing, if raid-wide, AoE damage suddenly climbs and ticks repeatedly it means you won't always have an opportunity to get Serendipity stacks and with haste high you can spam PoH a LOT faster.

Pinuli
02-23-2010, 07:45 AM
Hello,

I've been playing Holypriest quite a while on my best geared alt (main is a feral druid fyi) also played a bit pvp as Disc to about 2k rating.

Anyway, I know that there was 2 ways to heal as priest before, Flashheal vs Renew as fillers, and afaik Renew was the better option before.. BUT, since the new t10 bonuses, does Flash heal overtake Renew alot? In all honesty, I have always favored the Flash heal anyway, but I wanna know for theoretical reasons.

Appriciate answers

Regards Pinuli/Essentir

P.S. link to Wowarmory in link if it matters :)

Amamaeth
02-23-2010, 08:47 AM
No the set bonuses are pretty fail atm. From what I understand, there is a bigger movement to a renew style play then flash, but I still prefer flash. If you prefer flash, keep going with it.

Unluckky
02-23-2010, 09:34 AM
Haste reduces the gcd. so doing all those instant casts the gcd will be reduced eventually to 1sec instead of 1.5 sec.

Pinuli
02-23-2010, 01:47 PM
No the set bonuses are pretty fail atm. From what I understand, there is a bigger movement to a renew style play then flash, but I still prefer flash. If you prefer flash, keep going with it.


Yea they might be fail, but if you choose between 4pt t10/10.25 (and flashheal or renewing) or 2pt t10 2pt t9.5 (and renewing)?Since I really dont do much ICC 25 on my alt..I dont have access to awesome offset-parts.

Amamaeth
02-23-2010, 04:24 PM
Yea they might be fail, but if you choose between 4pt t10/10.25 (and flashheal or renewing) or 2pt t10 2pt t9.5 (and renewing)?Since I really dont do much ICC 25 on my alt..I dont have access to awesome offset-parts.

I don't understand what you are trying to get at.

Renew vs Flash heal is personal preference. Many high end priests go to renew, I'm sure just as many use flash. Set bonuses are *NOT* a part of their consideration, because they suck. The 2pc t10 continues to do less then 1% of my healing, that's being disc and using flash heal as my filler, you'll see even less benefit as holy.

Planeman
03-02-2010, 12:23 PM
Very nice healing guide. I am in the process of learning how to heal raids. I have been a spriest and have never healed much. Now my guild needs additional healers and it's time to step up and help fill that role.

eirishkegal
03-18-2010, 04:03 PM
Thank you for this guide, and for the occasionally vigorous discussion that followed. I'm a shadow priest who recently dual spec'd Holy. I have a nice Talent tree and four pieces of the T9 healing set--and no idea how to use them. I find watching people argue about the fine points of their class to be very instructive, so please, by all means continue to disagree with one another! I notice that this healing guide was written for 3.2.2. Is there any plan to update this for 3.3? I know quite a bit changed for spriests between 3.2 and 3.3, I assume that would be true of Holy priests as well.

Aliena
03-31-2010, 01:20 AM
Updated to reflect priest playstyle changes for ilvl245 - which is now easy to come by - and above.

Enyias
04-12-2010, 09:24 AM
A great tip for effective use for shadowfiend.. pop hymn for the extra mana pool then pop shadowfiend and then Arcane torrent if bloodelf. just a thing i would have added to the guide.
this spec http://www.wowhead.com/talent#bVcbuZbE0cf0qihhezAo (holy) is also a great spec i use and it works really good for me, nice flash heals, works really well in both 10/25.
using Inner focus with divine hymn can also save alot of mana + better effect of divine hymn

Spiritus
04-12-2010, 11:04 AM
A great tip for effective use for shadowfiend.. pop hymn for the extra mana pool then pop shadowfiend and then Arcane torrent if bloodelf.


You'll want to Pop SF first, then Hymn, then AT. That way you are guaranteed to get the maximum amount of SF ticks from the %mana increase.

Enyias
04-12-2010, 12:09 PM
kk thanks, will try that next time

kally
04-21-2010, 03:19 AM
awesome guide. saved me from deleting my holy priest

Christelle
05-01-2010, 07:33 PM
TY for the guide it was a big help on figuring out how to approach raid healing

kingcomrade
05-01-2010, 07:49 PM
Haste really isn't that important to a holy priest, in the sense of gemming for it. Most of our spells are instant, and the ones that aren't are filler spells. The only spell that significantly benefits from haste is prayer of healing, and we have a built-in haste boost in serendipity (as awkward as it is). Gemming just to reduce the GCD costs too much in opportunity for other things.

The honest truth to priests is, we benefit from almost every stat, but in general our spells are fast but weak (compared to say shaman who have slow but powerful heals). That's why as long as you've got a ton of spellpower and enough regen to last through the fights, it doesn't matter that much what other healing stats you have as long as you actually have some.

white
05-25-2010, 09:46 AM
i have been reading pretty much all the 7 pages of replies to your healing guide. IT IS AWESOME. one and only question. you said body and soul is left open to personel preference. was curious why u spec into body and soul aliena? (besides speeding through the pack)

Jiune
05-25-2010, 01:35 PM
I think people are not understanding why you would want haste when casting instant spells. Perhaps they get confused by the little amount disc needs? When casting instant spells you are capped by how fast you can do this by the GCD. Without any haste your GCD is 1.5sec, not exactly speedy huh? 1 second is the lower limit for a GCD and you need 50% haste to reach that goal. Now the reason why haste is so much more important for a holy priest than say a bubblebot disc priest (both using almost all instants) is that disc has both haste from talents (6% from Enlightenment) and from their main spell PW:S (a whopping 25%) while a holy priest has...none.

Oixi
05-26-2010, 01:22 AM
I would like to see logs if ppl posting theirs specs
for example fight from icc25 hc marrowgar http://worldoflogs.com/reports/kjurjw7jlylwe61t/sum/healingDone/?s=3118&e=3452
as i dont have specced serendipity because i found it as wasted 3 points in my playstyle renew PoM and CoH with FH on proc

Spiritus
05-26-2010, 11:24 AM
I would like to see logs if ppl posting theirs specs
for example fight from icc25 hc marrowgar http://worldoflogs.com/reports/kjurjw7jlylwe61t/sum/healingDone/?s=3118&e=3452
as i dont have specced serendipity because i found it as wasted 3 points in my playstyle renew PoM and CoH with FH on proc

A fairly standard Renew build, though I find the 2/2 Healing Prayers to be a bit of a waste if you do not cast PoH [which I assume you do not because you undervalue Serendipity]. Those two points could go into B&S [which is pretty much the best talent in the holy tree if used creatively & timely] or to finish 5/5 EH and drop a point into Inner Focus for mana free, crit juiced DHs. The mana you save on the already dirt cheap ProM is not worth the 2pts IMO.

Oixi
05-26-2010, 10:29 PM
A fairly standard Renew build, though I find the 2/2 Healing Prayers to be a bit of a waste if you do not cast PoH [which I assume you do not because you undervalue Serendipity]. Those two points could go into B&S [which is pretty much the best talent in the holy tree if used creatively & timely] or to finish 5/5 EH and drop a point into Inner Focus for mana free, crit juiced DHs. The mana you save on the already dirt cheap ProM is not worth the 2pts IMO.

problem with B&S is that we always have disc priest and sometimes we have 2 in raid which makes B&S unusable

FullofHeal
06-02-2010, 10:53 AM
It's been a while since I posted, but I wanted to follow-up on this guide....I tried both the Emp Renew and otherwise, and have found that Renew is nice when you have the time, but PoM/PoH does the job. I tried both ways in ICC10, and Renew just couldn't keep up with the other two. In fact, I've found, as stated by others, that PoM/CoH/PoH did the job faster and better, with the FH insta-cast. Maybe things change, as noted, once ICC 25 gets here, or maybe it's my guild (we have a lot of Disc Priests/Rest Druids).

Ayrie
06-12-2010, 08:24 PM
It's been a while since I posted, but I wanted to follow-up on this guide....I tried both the Emp Renew and otherwise, and have found that Renew is nice when you have the time, but PoM/PoH does the job. I tried both ways in ICC10, and Renew just couldn't keep up with the other two. In fact, I've found, as stated by others, that PoM/CoH/PoH did the job faster and better, with the FH insta-cast. Maybe things change, as noted, once ICC 25 gets here, or maybe it's my guild (we have a lot of Disc Priests/Rest Druids).

I completely agree i find in ICC10/25 that casting renew with my latency around 200ish that the GCD on renew messes up my rotation where i can keep FH going with other spells without an interruption. Also i just have to comment to previous posts the resto shamans can make great MT healers as long as you use the spells available correctly just like any other healing class.

Jezuz
07-11-2010, 02:49 AM
I'm having some issues, since in your guide you clearly state, that haste shouldn't be that much of a concern, but still you stack alot of it. And since your not using flash-heal empowered healing as talent, i suppose your using renew, and prayer of healing for the most part of your healing. However, why pickup haste that much, since it only stacks with prayer of healing, and not even renew. And since you ain't using flash heal that much. I've been told, and discussed haste with alot of people, and most only stacks it to 20-25 %. but your on what, 40 % or something?

Spiritus
07-11-2010, 08:11 AM
The general idea is to keep your crit around 30% [raid buffed] and then stack haste. While a holy priest cannot reach the GCD cap, he or she can, through haste, increase the number of Renews one can have up at one time.

Consider a 1.5sec GCD and a 15sec renew. Under these conditions with perfect latency, a holy priest can keep up 10 renews. If you drop that to 1.25sec GCD you can keep up 12 renews, or 10 renews while being able to press CoH & ProM on CD. So on and so forth.

Crit is nice for activating things like HC & SoL, but it really shouldn't be relied upon as a throughput stat.

I'll let Aliena reply with how she plays [as I honestly do not know], but looking at her gear and spec I would imagine her recount Top 3 are Renew, CoH, & ProM [followed by Emp Renew or FH]. Of course, some fights are different, but, again, my guess is CoH & ProM on CD with Renew fillers, pressing SoL-FH when someone gets dangerously low and serendipity-hasted PoH for big raid-wide hits.

moraigh
07-19-2010, 02:56 AM
Excellent Guide

Rohaan of Nagrand Realm

Theadan
07-20-2010, 04:39 AM
GREAT GUIDE
Thanks Aliena and the other staff for your work.

A question. wich is the rotation and spec for Heavy AOE heal?
Circle healing heal only 5 target (6 if have glyph).
Plz can you post a spec for that role in raid? Or is the same you posted?
^^

Avataa
07-26-2010, 02:51 AM
Hey Aliena I was wondering why you don't get T10 4 piece bonus for holy I thought it was a usefull bonus to get.

Jezuz
07-26-2010, 05:24 AM
Hey Aliena I was wondering why you don't get T10 4 piece bonus for holy I thought it was a usefull bonus to get.

Properbly because she's using renew POH, POM more than Circle of Healing. Meaning the last piece would be a waste, compared to the items bonuses she' gets from the other hc piece.

Spiritus
07-26-2010, 11:19 AM
Properbly because she's using renew POH, POM more than Circle of Healing. Meaning the last piece would be a waste, compared to the items bonuses she' gets from the other hc piece.

Actually, the T10 4pc gives a straight 5% bonus to renew [and PW:S]. The old CoH bonus has been long gone.
You'll have to ask her about skipping the 4pc. As a disc priest, I find the 5% bonus to PW:S worth the pick up, but PW:S is a much larger percentage of my throughput than renew CoH is to holy.

Akeber
07-26-2010, 02:15 PM
Actually, the T10 4pc gives a straight 5% bonus to renew [and PW:S]. The old CoH bonus has been long gone.

5% to renew would be great, but that's not the case. It was changed to 5% bonus to CoH a long time ago. I forget what The original bonus was. http://www.wowhead.com/item=51178

Spiritus
07-26-2010, 04:19 PM
Well, crap. I guess I don't even look at my own gear anymore. According to that its 10% to CoH... which isn't shabby.

Balthazaar
07-27-2010, 07:36 PM
I saw this post on YouTube and was immediately inspired to change my Shadow Priest to Holy and to join TankSpot. Excellent Guide. Thank you very much . :)

Curana
07-29-2010, 01:20 PM
So there are two things I wanted to go over and get your opinions on. First of all from what I have read in ICC with the buff spellpower is currently on par with haste in regards to what holy priests should be gemming. This is because both of these stats are the best throughput stats for holy priests. The reason (in my understanding) haste has surpassed spellpower in importance in ICC is because of teh buff. With a 30% buff you now are having a direct boost to the sheer amount of healing you do per cast. Now it is more important to gem for haste so thatyou can try and get up to the soft haste cap which I believe is around 1260. This haste cap brings your renews down to the lowest gcd and your PoHs become a 2 second cast which can be highly usefull since PoH in an actual fight does more healing than five renews depending on your situation.

With 20% buff, haste capped (you're close enough) and 4k SP buffed:
Renew - ~19k per cast = max ~19k HPS
Glyphed PoH - ~36.5k per cast = max ~18.25k HPS

Yes, this means that Renew is in fact higher HPS than PoH. But that is only at 0% over-healing. If you can land PoH at nearly any over-heal margin lower than your average over-heal on Renew, then PoH is superior. Also if you happen to have Serendipity for whatever reason (Festergut at 3 inhales etc), then PoH surpasses the HPS of Renew. But in general use what you're looking for is to understand your over-heal margin with Renew (often 35-40%) and then keep an eye out for a chance to land PoH with a lower over-heal rate.

Remember that Renew's over-heal amount over the course of a fight is pretty static. It's averaged over a ton of ticks on a ton of people so you can count on that. PoH on the other hand is a different style entirely and in particular lines up positively with damage auras at haste cap. That is the cast time is equal to the damage aura tick rate and the glyph's tick rate also allows for aura ticks in between its own ticks. So with proper rhythm you can achieve some very low over-healing with PoH. There's also the Bloodlust factor. When lust is cast in damage aura fights, assuming you have the mana, you can just go nuts with PoH. Just make sure to never PoH the same group more than once every 6 seconds or you'll eat HoT ticks from your glyph. ( This info was provided to me by Harky on MMO Champion)

With this said you want to do everything you can to make it so you can put out as much healing as possible as quickly as possible. With the buff in ICC it becomes less important to be able to do powerful heals than quick heals to be able to save people when needed. In conclusion it would seem to me that you would be better off gemming for haste instead of spellpower because spellpower is covered by the ICC buff and because if you have too much spellpower thsi will be turned into direct overhealing a good majority of the time. This is because renew will just have a ton of overheal between its own tics and the other healers in your party.

This also brings me to my other topic which is the use of FH versus renew. From what I can tell unless a renew is already on a target you shouldn't use a renew on someone to keep them up. This is because the initial heal from empowered renew is only about 3-4k healing higher than an average FH spell. This is completely eclipsed after one or two tics of the renew. Also after the renew runs its course a single renew will have healed more than even a GH.

Nicki
07-29-2010, 01:34 PM
So there are two things I wanted to go over and get your opinions on. First of all from what I have read in ICC with the buff spellpower is currently on par with haste in regards to what holy priests should be gemming. This is because both of these stats are the best throughput stats for holy priests. The reason (in my understanding) haste has surpassed spellpower in importance in ICC is because of teh buff. With a 30% buff you now are having a direct boost to the sheer amount of healing you do per cast. Now it is more important to gem for haste so thatyou can try and get up to the soft haste cap which I believe is around 1260. This haste cap brings your renews down to the lowest gcd and your PoHs become a 2 second cast which can be highly usefull since PoH in an actual fight does more healing than five renews depending on your situation.

With 20% buff, haste capped (you're close enough) and 4k SP buffed:
Renew - ~19k per cast = max ~19k HPS
Glyphed PoH - ~36.5k per cast = max ~18.25k HPS

Yes, this means that Renew is in fact higher HPS than PoH. But that is only at 0% over-healing. If you can land PoH at nearly any over-heal margin lower than your average over-heal on Renew, then PoH is superior. Also if you happen to have Serendipity for whatever reason (Festergut at 3 inhales etc), then PoH surpasses the HPS of Renew. But in general use what you're looking for is to understand your over-heal margin with Renew (often 35-40%) and then keep an eye out for a chance to land PoH with a lower over-heal rate.

Remember that Renew's over-heal amount over the course of a fight is pretty static. It's averaged over a ton of ticks on a ton of people so you can count on that. PoH on the other hand is a different style entirely and in particular lines up positively with damage auras at haste cap. That is the cast time is equal to the damage aura tick rate and the glyph's tick rate also allows for aura ticks in between its own ticks. So with proper rhythm you can achieve some very low over-healing with PoH. There's also the Bloodlust factor. When lust is cast in damage aura fights, assuming you have the mana, you can just go nuts with PoH. Just make sure to never PoH the same group more than once every 6 seconds or you'll eat HoT ticks from your glyph. ( This info was provided to me by Harky on MMO Champion)

With this said you want to do everything you can to make it so you can put out as much healing as possible as quickly as possible. With the buff in ICC it becomes less important to be able to do powerful heals than quick heals to be able to save people when needed. In conclusion it would seem to me that you would be better off gemming for haste instead of spellpower because spellpower is covered by the ICC buff and because if you have too much spellpower thsi will be turned into direct overhealing a good majority of the time. This is because renew will just have a ton of overheal between its own tics and the other healers in your party.

This also brings me to my other topic which is the use of FH versus renew. From what I can tell unless a renew is already on a target you shouldn't use a renew on someone to keep them up. This is because the initial heal from empowered renew is only about 3-4k healing higher than an average FH spell. This is completely eclipsed after one or two tics of the renew. Also after the renew runs its course a single renew will have healed more than even a GH.

1. Chances are if you are using PoH it's an emergency and shouldn't have happened.
2. Flash heal is basicly in the list of least used spells, PoM, Renew and COH carry the brunt of the healing.
3. It would be good play not to overwrite renews but in reality with mana and the ICC buff it's not likely something you waste time over choosing but i'd say not overwriting renews is a good idea.
4.Most of this is just consequence of the weak healing design in wrath; you should have to choose whether you Greater heal or Renew, is the tank going to die in the next 2~seconds or can I let renew run its course etc. Currently healing gameplay is as mindless as playing most paladin specs, pick your button and spam it.

Kerigan
09-23-2010, 04:24 AM
Hi great guide :) i have been playing my Holy priest since vanilla so i have alot of usless stuff floating around in my head. I
have been getting alot of grief from healers because i don't use any healing addons like Grid and Healbot ( i use X-pearl and bartender but not much else that affects the way i view the screen ) i have tryed them a few times but i get the impresion my healing is getting slower and it feels like you don't have to think that much, Would you say that these types of addon improve your healing enough that it is worth me sticking with them.

Ps i am not saying people that use them don't have to think much :) its just they don't feel right when i am useing them >.<

Tomehere321
10-03-2010, 09:45 PM
Very nice guide, ty for this! I am main spec disc (your other guide helped me a lot for that too), and i just recently changed my second spec to holy. Up until now, i have been tank -and- raid healing as disc with not too much problems (im not doin H modes or anything though), and I wanted to start running as holy so that I can be more effective in my raid healing, as it is quite difficult to do as disc, especialy in 25 mans.

The thing is, I have a very hard time keeping the raid up in Holy. Im thinking that it is just my mindset as a disc, and I dont know when to use which spells. I have a shammy that I raid heal on all the time, so I'm familiar with the patterns of raid damage against most bosses, it just seems that I dont know when to cast what.

also, im a little confused about the spec, I have to put points in healing focus, devine fury, blessed recovery, or improved healing to get down to the 5th tier of talents, and in your guide you didnt really recommend any of those four talents. ty very much for reading

<3 Ryokoh of Shandris <3

Knighterrant81
10-03-2010, 11:58 PM
Tomehere321
Very nice guide, ty for this! I am main spec disc (your other guide helped me a lot for that too), and i just recently changed my second spec to holy. Up until now, i have been tank -and- raid healing as disc with not too much problems (im not doin H modes or anything though), and I wanted to start running as holy so that I can be more effective in my raid healing, as it is quite difficult to do as disc, especialy in 25 mans.

The thing is, I have a very hard time keeping the raid up in Holy. Im thinking that it is just my mindset as a disc, and I dont know when to use which spells. I have a shammy that I raid heal on all the time, so I'm familiar with the patterns of raid damage against most bosses, it just seems that I dont know when to cast what.

also, im a little confused about the spec, I have to put points in healing focus, devine fury, blessed recovery, or improved healing to get down to the 5th tier of talents, and in your guide you didnt really recommend any of those four talents. ty very much for reading

<3 Ryokoh of Shandris <3 If you're a bubble spammer as disc, for your Holy spec put Renew on the same spot on the action bar as PW:Shield is for your disc spec. Your mindset will need to change a bit from "I prevent big damage quickly" to "I am a Resto Druid" but otherwise it is the same. you aren't going to save anyone with Renew, you'll probably have to save a Surge of Light proc, a Serendipity-hasted Gheal or POH, or a Flash Heal cast.

You can get some mileage from timing Prayer of Healing w/ Serendipity, followed by COH right before a big damage spike, like on BQL, or doggy Decimates.

Otherwise, keep Prayer of Mending on CD, cast COH when it is needed, use your Surge procs and then cast Renew, Renew, Renew...

Those talents you mentioned are filler utility talents. Take what you want. Personally, I like Divine Fury, because I keep a Shield on myself to prevent pushback (and 95% of my healing is instant cast anyway), and I like having the option to fast-cast a Greater Heal or Holy Fire/Smite combos. Gheal is still nice for 10 mans, especially if your healing team is a bit slow, or doesn't have a Resto Shaman, Disc Priest or Holy Paladin for some reason.

Whatever you do, don't take Blessed Recovery. Its bad, even for PVP (mostly because Focused Will and Inspiration are better and not many people go Holy for serious PVP)

Tomehere321
10-05-2010, 03:51 AM
Ty for your input! One thing I have noticed, like you said, is that i need to watch for the serendipity and surge of light procs, Since i have started keeping an eye on that i havent had any more trouble at all healing in holy (at least in heroics and 10 toc, i have yet to test it out in icc)

Knighterrant81
10-11-2010, 04:00 PM
well, even though this all is relevant for only a matter of days, just make sure in 10s you don't get too locked into renew style. There are many times in 10s where it just makes more sense to use more direct healing, especially if you're paired with someone else who is just spamming little heals, like another Holy Priest or a raid healing Disc Priest, or a Resto Druid.

Aliena
10-16-2010, 05:33 PM
Updated.

Chamenas
10-16-2010, 09:20 PM
Video! :P

Aliena
10-16-2010, 10:10 PM
Not worth it for 1 1/2 months. =(

Pesko
10-16-2010, 10:14 PM
what are you doing up at this time Aliena, its only 07:10 :)

anyways, nice guide. Though Renew spam (to me) seems like a bit of a waste (we're using 2 shamans Chain healing), Im running Chakra Heal and Chakra PoH, seems pretty nice, cant wait to test it in 85 raids :)

Aliena
10-16-2010, 11:18 PM
It's 11:18pm here. ;x Not even midnight.

Pesko
10-17-2010, 12:10 AM
oh :) thought you were in germany :)

Mr.Winkle
10-17-2010, 08:26 AM
Thanks for the guide update Aliena.

Probably worth adding a link to your recommended talent spec to the guide: http://wowtal.com/#k=pYL4ZkM.a6d.priest.

Personally i wish they gave us a little more freedom in the tree. I'd rather have 3/3 Test of Faith than either Desperate Prayer or Spirit of Redemption.

Eterna
10-19-2010, 03:49 AM
Hi Aliena,

First of all, thanks for this clear guide on the 4.0.1 holy priest!

I could squeeze myself to the 37.5% (in raid) haste, but I could now only do that by replacing my six int/haste gems for pure haste gems and every reforge I can do from crit to haste. I'd lose about 60 int over it and would end up with nothing in mastery. I'd also have to eat haste food instead of spellpower food.

That seems a lot to sacrifice to me to go from 5 ticks to 6. What are your thoughts about that?

My current stats (selfbuffed) are:
Spell power: 3536
Haste: 25.53%
Mana Regen: 1341
Combat Regen: 996
Crit Chance: 20.36%
Mastery: 8.98


Thanks in advance,
Eterna

fatherbfg
10-19-2010, 12:15 PM
at ;ast some good holy priest info . will make good use of it ty aliena

Theadan
10-21-2010, 05:02 AM
Thanks Aliena for this guide
^^

Frozzy
10-21-2010, 07:08 PM
Hello Aliena,

I was just wondering if our passive ability--Meditation is currently bugged because I am starving for mana even when using double solaces. I am also currently using the Insightful Earthsiege Diamond but my regen all throughout an encounter is just bad. Since we always run with 2 resto druids, my style of healing is the Renew Chakra State and always hitting PoM, CoH and HW:A when they're off CD. I've also tried the PoH Chakra State playstyle but because of our 2 dedicated Resto Druids, my PoHs does a huge overhealing in the long run. Just by looking at the Holy Talent tree, we gain an additional 20% combat mana regen from Spirit through 2/2 Spiritual Healing so that's a total of 70% combat regen. If you ask me, that big number should indicate that mana shouldn't be a problem anymore but I just get annoyed when I raid because the rest of our healers aren't going OOM even when the encounter is already over. I used to have points 2 points into darkness but because of my paranoia about my mana regen, I had to relocate the points into 3/3 Mental Agility.

Thanks for taking the time to read this post and I would greatly appreciate any reply from you.

Sebadoh
10-26-2010, 04:04 PM
Hello Aliena,

I was just wondering if our passive ability--Meditation is currently bugged because I am starving for mana even when using double solaces. I am also currently using the Insightful Earthsiege Diamond but my regen all throughout an encounter is just bad. Since we always run with 2 resto druids, my style of healing is the Renew Chakra State and always hitting PoM, CoH and HW:A when they're off CD. I've also tried the PoH Chakra State playstyle but because of our 2 dedicated Resto Druids, my PoHs does a huge overhealing in the long run. Just by looking at the Holy Talent tree, we gain an additional 20% combat mana regen from Spirit through 2/2 Spiritual Healing so that's a total of 70% combat regen. If you ask me, that big number should indicate that mana shouldn't be a problem anymore but I just get annoyed when I raid because the rest of our healers aren't going OOM even when the encounter is already over. I used to have points 2 points into darkness but because of my paranoia about my mana regen, I had to relocate the points into 3/3 Mental Agility.

Thanks for taking the time to read this post and I would greatly appreciate any reply from you.

I'm not Aliena, but maybe I can shed some light on your situation.

Mana pool-based regen was nerfed extremely hard. They cut the mana return from our Shadowfiend from 5% per attack to 3%, and halved the amount of mana restored by the Replenishment raid buff. They also nerfed Hymn of Hope, but I forget by how much.

There are a few ways to deal with this issue:

1) Examine cooldown usage. Are you using Shadowfiend and Hymn of Hope at the most opportune times?

2) Examine your overhealing. I'm not advocating being lazy or anything, but on fights with lulls in the combat, feel free to take a regen break or just throw out a few heals here and there to patch people up.

3) You already specced into Mental Agility, which is good. If necessary, you may need to steal a point or two for Veiled Shadows (reduces Shadowfiend CD by 1 minute per point).

I won't really discuss gear, although if you're reforging away your spirit I would recommend changing it back.

Pyrae
11-08-2010, 03:18 PM
Now with 4.0.1, I am just wondering which spell would worker better with Chakra, Renew or Prayer of Healing? I've seen a lot of Holy Priests now using Prayer of Healing but personally i would rather go with Renew. I am about to test this for myself but just wondering what your thoughts are.

Mr.Winkle
11-08-2010, 05:42 PM
Now with 4.0.1, I am just wondering which spell would worker better with Chakra, Renew or Prayer of Healing? I've seen a lot of Holy Priests now using Prayer of Healing but personally i would rather go with Renew. I am about to test this for myself but just wondering what your thoughts are.


Renew chakra is pretty mana heavy. I find PoH and Heal Chakra's more useful personally.

Chakra healing changes in 4.03, they're removing the renew chakra i believe.

Lyeck
11-13-2010, 01:15 AM
I looked everywhere and my guild isn't giving me full answers. My question is what are the stat caps for healing as a holy priest?:confused:

Grutman
11-16-2010, 03:13 PM
Lyeck, there is no such thing as stat cap for healing really except for haste. You might want to read the first page again regarding stat priorities. I hope I answered your question.

I was wondering what other play styles as a holy priest are currently for 4.0.1. A lot of people are looking at Chakra to simply renew spam, which has been dominantly used by most holy priests. My question is, if I am capable of renew spamming in Chakra state which is basically endless because of the capability to refresh the duration. Wouldn't it be wise to gem pure intellect instead of haste to fix the mana issues some priests are having?

I myself still gem/reforge haste to reach the cap. My play style involves using the PoH chakra instead for HW:S. This allows me to be more dynamic because I can still renew spam, reduce coh cd and have the capability to use HW:S. My overall throughput has increased through my raiding experience. Mana of course becomes a really huge issue after 3-4 mins of healing, but most fights dont last more than 4-5 mins even in ICC 25 heroic content except for LK.

Sebadoh
11-16-2010, 06:49 PM
I was wondering what other play styles as a holy priest are currently for 4.0.1. A lot of people are looking at Chakra to simply renew spam, which has been dominantly used by most holy priests. My question is, if I am capable of renew spamming in Chakra state which is basically endless because of the capability to refresh the duration. Wouldn't it be wise to gem pure intellect instead of haste to fix the mana issues some priests are having?

I myself still gem/reforge haste to reach the cap. My play style involves using the PoH chakra instead for HW:S. This allows me to be more dynamic because I can still renew spam, reduce coh cd and have the capability to use HW:S. My overall throughput has increased through my raiding experience. Mana of course becomes a really huge issue after 3-4 mins of healing, but most fights dont last more than 4-5 mins even in ICC 25 heroic content except for LK.

Right now the whole PoH vs. Renew Chakra thing is a big debate, often times I find myself swapping multiple times per fight. Thankfully, they're rolling them both into one, which will make everything a LOT easier.

I'm still gemming pure int, but that's because I play Disc quite often as well and I'm too lazy to regem and reforge everything every time I need to switch (I have a handful of pieces I swap out, that's really it). If I were pure 100% Holy, I would gem to the haste softcap.

Grutman
11-17-2010, 10:08 AM
Right now the whole PoH vs. Renew Chakra thing is a big debate, often times I find myself swapping multiple times per fight. Thankfully, they're rolling them both into one, which will make everything a LOT easier.

I'm still gemming pure int, but that's because I play Disc quite often as well and I'm too lazy to regem and reforge everything every time I need to switch (I have a handful of pieces I swap out, that's really it). If I were pure 100% Holy, I would gem to the haste softcap.

Can you please link a blue post that they merging the chakra state into one. I think that is great news especially for cata, were casting PoH is going to be a mana drain to keep chakra up.

Liliyah
11-17-2010, 12:12 PM
Can you please link a blue post that they merging the chakra state into one. I think that is great news especially for cata, were casting PoH is going to be a mana drain to keep chakra up.It's in the current beta build.

"Chakra no longer works with Renew. No longer costs mana. Sanctuary (Prayer of Healing, Prayer of Mending) now increases healing done by your AoE spells and Renew by 15%. (Old - Only increased AoE spells by 10%)"

tlor
11-22-2010, 06:54 AM
Great content update, Aliena, as always.

One note: you state that

Veiled Shadows decreases the duration of your Shadowfiend by 2 minutes

This may have recently changed, but currently, at 2/2, Veiled Shadows decreases the duration by 60 seconds.

Regards!

Lyeck
11-22-2010, 10:16 AM
Lyeck, there is no such thing as stat cap for healing really except for haste. You might want to read the first page again regarding stat priorities. I hope I answered your question.

I was wondering what other play styles as a holy priest are currently for 4.0.1. A lot of people are looking at Chakra to simply renew spam, which has been dominantly used by most holy priests. My question is, if I am capable of renew spamming in Chakra state which is basically endless because of the capability to refresh the duration. Wouldn't it be wise to gem pure intellect instead of haste to fix the mana issues some priests are having?

I myself still gem/reforge haste to reach the cap. My play style involves using the PoH chakra instead for HW:S. This allows me to be more dynamic because I can still renew spam, reduce coh cd and have the capability to use HW:S. My overall throughput has increased through my raiding experience. Mana of course becomes a really huge issue after 3-4 mins of healing, but most fights dont last more than 4-5 mins even in ICC 25 heroic content except for LK.

Yes.. It does help me. This is my first healing class and i'm a total noob at it. I'm good at healing 5 mans but i want to get all my facts straight before i through my self into raid healing.

slowreflex
11-24-2010, 08:34 AM
Circle of Healing is a very potent smart AoE healing spell that affects 5 or up to 6 targets if glyphed, with average gear heals each target for about 2500 non-crit and 4000-5000 on crit and has a 6 second cooldown timer.


Thanks for the excellent guide Aliena. I did pick up on one error though, underlined above.

-slowreflex

morale30
12-02-2010, 04:09 PM
Awesome guide, Aliena!! Very helpful! I just stumbled upon it and it's really helped me to get that much better at the priest heals. I just have a question for you and anyone else who's got extensive experience with Holy heals...Do I perform up to par? :confused:

I just started priest healing and have been holy since the start of 80 raid healing. I heal for my 10man casual raiding guild and I'm the only priest we have, currently. Our last priest (someone's alt) wasn't viewed as very good by the guild in general as his hps weren't impressive, but he was also Disc which I perceive as more a damage mitigation spec then a hps spec. Compared to him, I put up much better numbers and my guild is happy with my performance, but I was curious if I'm actually performing to a respectable level given my gear? My character is in the US region, Eldre'Thalas server, Horde, Deadnluvinit. I've managed to get mostly 245 and higher gear (no T10 bonus) and I can put out 3-5k hps depending on how I'm having to heal the raid. Is that good (at this point I get the Hellscream buff which distorts my true numbers)?

Also, I seem to plow through my mana pretty quick when I actually throw out heal after heal. If I don't stop to let some mana come back, I can burn through it all in about 2mins. My combat regen with NO buffs is 685...is that low/avg/high for being a holy priest with my gear?

Sorry for the long post, but I'm usually good at being a fast learner of any class and although I've mastered Mage, Lock, DK, and Pally, the new experience of Priest healing is still a bit of a mystery to me as to why I plow through mana. Any advice from anyone would be appreciated!! :D

Erectus
12-09-2010, 06:41 PM
I am not sure if there is a forum already regarding this..if there is please redirect me.

I followed this guide through out WOTLK and it has been doing pretty well, I loved it.

But as soon, Cataclysm launched with the leveling through 80-85. The mana cost on a

majority of spells has been ridiculously increased. I cannot even rotate PWS on the tank

without having to go OOM. "Heal" ofcourse is my primary healing spell now and I barely use

Flash and Greater. But there is just so much "Heal" can do. It is a 2 sec cast even with

all my haste, it only heals around 10-12k average, and my mana pool is around 60k, that

just not seem to be good enough. What should I do? Chakra<Heal<renew?

I was just wondering what everyone else is doing to survive through this patch.

jrot24
12-10-2010, 11:20 AM
"Heal" ofcourse is my primary healing spell now and I barely use

Flash and Greater. But there is just so much "Heal" can do. It is a 2 sec cast even with

all my haste, it only heals around 10-12k average, and my mana pool is around 60k, that

just not seem to be good enough. What should I do? Chakra<Heal<renew?

I was just wondering what everyone else is doing to survive through this patch.

A lot of us are feeling the pressure at 85. It feels like we have a shrunken mana pool, and our spells haven't increased in throughput to compensate. It's not just priests, either. This is a feeling felt by all healers that I'm aware of, so you're not alone. It's just a new model of healing that takes the emphasis away from rotating cooldowns and blowing "big" spells, to being more reactive and selective with your healing. We as healers just have to adapt to this new model, and it presents a fun and new type of challenge.

That said, keeping up the tank should look something like this: Chakra -> Heal -> Renew -> PoM

Then you just continue to cast heal on the target, renewing allies taking slight damage, and giving them a quick heal on the side if they need it. If your tank is taking massive spike damage, you can either choose to use your Holy Word: Serenity (instant cast, mana-efficient heal) on a dps that's took some damage, or on the tank itself to provide you with a chance to heal the DPS.

Prayer of Healing should be used very infrequently. I only use it when the entire party is taking damage that, if not healed through, would wipe us. I haven't really found another way to efficiently heal the party. CoH doesn't appear to be as potent as it used to be, healing for only a fraction of the group's health and having a 10-second out of chakra cooldown (8 second in).

Any other tips might be appeciated, or if I'm dead wrong... I'd like to hear about it. :)

Erectus
12-10-2010, 11:42 AM
Thanks dude, that is exactly what i was doing lol. I figured my only option would be to increase my mana up to 100k, since healers are having not much problem healing when they have a godly mana pool.

jrot24
12-10-2010, 12:21 PM
Also, don't forget to try to snag gear that aids in your regen. That'll help you out significantly.

Aliena
12-24-2010, 01:38 AM
Updated.

Sebadoh
12-24-2010, 01:54 PM
I just read over your new guide, and while most of it is spot-on, I have to disagree with several choices.

Some of your choices are great for people who are well into the raiding content. Most of us haven't gotten there yet. I would highly recommend that while working your way through heroics and just starting to get into raiding, Holy Priests do the following:

- Glyph for Renew. The 30 second reduced cooldown on Guardian Spirit will not make as big of a difference in 5-man content or the first few raid bosses as another 10% on Renew, in my opinion.

- Max out both Mental Agility and Veiled Shadows. I've been using this spec (http://www.wowhead.com/talent#bchZfuMrRorkcdoob), tweak it as you like but I believe that it's a good baseline for starting out.

Later when you are no longer scraping for every last bit of mana you can possibly find, change your spec and glyph setup a bit.

Also, please for the love of all that is Holy (see what I did there?), use consumables and enchants, even if they're green-quality or even WotLK ones. Whitecrest Gumbo (http://www.wowhead.com/item=62656) and Ghost Elixir (http://www.wowhead.com/item=58084)s are pretty cheap. Many of the enchants can be found for 1/4 the price of mats on the AH, simply because so many people make scrolls while leveling enchanting. If you don't have the rep for your Cata helm/shoulder enchants, use WotLK ones. Use green quality gems, etc etc.

I never heal anything without at least a 60 spirit food buff, simply because it is so cheap. Elixirs and Flasks, I wouldn't waste on a 5-man unless you're made of money, but raiding anything without a flask or elixir is pure failure when you can get 225 extra spirit for the mere cost of 2 Cinderbloom per wipe. At the very least, go grab a Pure Mojo for a few gold.

Aliena
12-24-2010, 02:08 PM
I have a spec with mental agility and veiled shadows in the guide as well as mentioned that Renew can be a decent glyph choice. I still do not recommend Renew glyph in raiding for most priests, and this is a raiding basics guide.

Sebadoh
12-24-2010, 02:21 PM
All I'm saying is, you could have elaborated a little bit to make this more relevant to people gearing up in heroics, which is the majority of, well, everyone at this point.

Don't get me wrong. I've done four raid bosses (five if you count the dude in Tol Baraaaahwhydon'tweeverwin), and even with that limited experience, I can see where you're coming from on most of this even if I don't agree 100%.

VettraXarn
12-27-2010, 01:40 PM
Wow.. What a great job once again. I can always count on tankspot to have the answer to whatever question I have. This healing guide is awesome. With all the new changes, I feel like a n00b again. I was having so much trouble keeping my mana pool but I think I have a better understanding now after reading this.

Thanks and keep the info/tips coming.

frantichealer
12-29-2010, 10:56 AM
Haha, I always wondered why I was running out of mana in dungeons. Being the narcassistic person I was, I believed that Flash Heal was still low on mana cost...
After reading this guide, I have redone my talents and action bars and find healing dungeons to be less of a nightmare, I tip my hat to you Aliena for creating another impressive guide to priest healing. Now, if only my groups would understand that lightwell is amazing and worth using...

Skiderion
12-29-2010, 03:40 PM
I actually snooped a few players on WoL before checking this guide because I felt like I was doing something wrong after my first few raid bosses. I was comparing myself to our resto druid and shaman and was coming well behind them. Another key marker for me was that lightwell renew was showing up as my #1 heal occasionally. In the end what I discovered is that the holy priest has really turned in to a PoH spambot. I am not saying I don't throw other spells and I am certainly proud of my shiny cereal bowl of life (which is still high on the meter) but in the end PoH is our life right now. I force myself in to the AOE chakra constantly if it falls off by tossing PoM and then get ready to start chucking PoH. I understand that things have changed but I guess I could have never imagined that PoH would be so incredibly vital. The Combination of the Chakra state, glyph, and mastery makes PoH casts the #1 priority.

My experience thus far has been:

1. drop lightwell before pull and pop chakra
2. PoM the Tank that is starting the pull
3. Wait for at least three people to get nailed in the same group and start casting PoH.

If it takes a bit of time for that initial damage to come just toss in some heals and a renew on a tank but watch the chakra state and be careful not to pop into heal chakra on accident.

As soon as lightwell comes off CD recast. Blowing SF early is actually not a bad idea (70% ish) because you should get him back at the tail end of fights when you really really need him.

I am still struggling with mana on fights such as Omnitron or Halfus but others such as Magmaw or Valiona and Theralion seem to be easier.

I think this guide is definitly on target and while it doesnt apply as much to heroics which seem to require heal chakra, I can appreciate the time and effort put in to it. Plus like she said, it's a raid guide.

Mav
12-30-2010, 12:41 PM
A lot of us are feeling the pressure at 85. It feels like we have a shrunken mana pool, and our spells haven't increased in throughput to compensate. It's not just priests, either. This is a feeling felt by all healers that I'm aware of, so you're not alone. It's just a new model of healing that takes the emphasis away from rotating cooldowns and blowing "big" spells, to being more reactive and selective with your healing. We as healers just have to adapt to this new model, and it presents a fun and new type of challenge.

That said, keeping up the tank should look something like this: Chakra -> Heal -> Renew -> PoM

Then you just continue to cast heal on the target, renewing allies taking slight damage, and giving them a quick heal on the side if they need it. If your tank is taking massive spike damage, you can either choose to use your Holy Word: Serenity (instant cast, mana-efficient heal) on a dps that's took some damage, or on the tank itself to provide you with a chance to heal the DPS.

Prayer of Healing should be used very infrequently. I only use it when the entire party is taking damage that, if not healed through, would wipe us. I haven't really found another way to efficiently heal the party. CoH doesn't appear to be as potent as it used to be, healing for only a fraction of the group's health and having a 10-second out of chakra cooldown (8 second in).

Any other tips might be appeciated, or if I'm dead wrong... I'd like to hear about it. :)

Before pull for tank should be PoM->Renew->Chakra->Heal (spam till pull) that way, the CD on your PoM started long time ago and you would have built up a significant stacks of Echo of light on the tank. Yes, a renew on dps and "heal" to refresh it if needed. If Tank drops suddenly, a quick FH then serenity then GH(if needed) should bring them back up.

You underestimate CoH a bit, It tends to crit a lot and it's Echo of light can keep a steady stream of heals going into everyone.

Aliena
12-30-2010, 01:27 PM
I actually snooped a few players on WoL before checking this guide because I felt like I was doing something wrong after my first few raid bosses. I was comparing myself to our resto druid and shaman and was coming well behind them. Another key marker for me was that lightwell renew was showing up as my #1 heal occasionally. In the end what I discovered is that the holy priest has really turned in to a PoH spambot. I am not saying I don't throw other spells and I am certainly proud of my shiny cereal bowl of life (which is still high on the meter) but in the end PoH is our life right now. I force myself in to the AOE chakra constantly if it falls off by tossing PoM and then get ready to start chucking PoH. I understand that things have changed but I guess I could have never imagined that PoH would be so incredibly vital. The Combination of the Chakra state, glyph, and mastery makes PoH casts the #1 priority.

My experience thus far has been:

1. drop lightwell before pull and pop chakra
2. PoM the Tank that is starting the pull
3. Wait for at least three people to get nailed in the same group and start casting PoH.

If it takes a bit of time for that initial damage to come just toss in some heals and a renew on a tank but watch the chakra state and be careful not to pop into heal chakra on accident.

As soon as lightwell comes off CD recast. Blowing SF early is actually not a bad idea (70% ish) because you should get him back at the tail end of fights when you really really need him.

I am still struggling with mana on fights such as Omnitron or Halfus but others such as Magmaw or Valiona and Theralion seem to be easier.

I think this guide is definitly on target and while it doesnt apply as much to heroics which seem to require heal chakra, I can appreciate the time and effort put in to it. Plus like she said, it's a raid guide.

Omnitron is actually a perfect opportunity to switch chakras a lot. When Magmatron is out, be in Sanctuary Chakra and use PoM/PoH/CoH, but any other time be in Heal Chakra and use Heal/Gheal. Conserves mana and positively owns the meters.

Shazbott
01-03-2011, 03:00 PM
I have not run any math on this idea but am curious to know if possibly taking the 2 points out of Veiled Shadows and only going 2/3 in Mental Agility, and picking up 2/2 Evangelism and 1/1 Archangel would be a smarter choice. While you would have to smite to gain the buff you would gain a 15% increase to heals for 18secs and also restore 5% mana, with a CD of 30seconds. Seems over time in some of the longer encounters this could be more mana efficient and healing efficient than the 1 minute CD off of Shadowfiend dropping it to 4 minutes. Like I said I have not run the math on the numbers for this but was wandering what your thoughts on it are.

Thanks

Skiderion
01-03-2011, 03:27 PM
Yeah I have to agree with you on that Aliena. The fight definitly warrants swapping back and forth depending on which bots are up.

I still like keeping the AoE Chakra up more often in a number of the fights for the boost to my AoE heals... I may just be stubborn. The mechanics of the fights definitly will dictate how we play more so than in WotLK which was pretty much always a bunch of renew spam mixed with the assorted gift bag of holy priest AoE heals.

I also realized that I desparately want to get Lavawalker on my sneakers because my only recourse when I am just not reacting quick enough is to either use PWS for the speed boost or use Inner will instead of Inner fire which is a direct hit to HPS. Atramedes is definitly a good awareness check.

Go LIGHTWELL!

Grutman
01-04-2011, 10:39 AM
I three heal in most fights in 10 man raid content. Usually I have a pally and/or a sharman in the raid group that can do a great job with tank healing, but in some cases their output in aoe heals lacks priests. So I usually always stay in AoE chakra state and rely on others to keep up the tanks with a little help from renew/PoM. I am still a big fan of renew and manage to spam it during huge aoe fights without going oom while using Inner will.

I have two main questions though:
1. Should I go Inner fire for the SP boost to put up lightwell before and during the fight or does the output of the lightwell depend on my current Inner fire/will when it has already been placed?
2. Does anyone else think that the council is way more intensive compared to Chog in Bastion of Twilight from a healing standpoint? The council almost seems unhealable to a certain extent during the enrage. With Chog, the dont stand in this bad thing policy and that fight is cake. The aoe fear priest get is awesome during that fight, as well as leap of faith the OT/Melee DPS after adds dies.

Crysanius
01-07-2011, 10:36 AM
I have not run any math on this idea but am curious to know if possibly taking the 2 points out of Veiled Shadows and only going 2/3 in Mental Agility, and picking up 2/2 Evangelism and 1/1 Archangel would be a smarter choice. While you would have to smite to gain the buff you would gain a 15% increase to heals for 18secs and also restore 5% mana, with a CD of 30seconds. Seems over time in some of the longer encounters this could be more mana efficient and healing efficient than the 1 minute CD off of Shadowfiend dropping it to 4 minutes. Like I said I have not run the math on the numbers for this but was wandering what your thoughts on it are.

Thanks

I am currently using this spec and although I'm still going oom way too much (I'm hoping this will change with better gear), I really like it. I'm always at the top for heals, that is until I go oom. I think most of my problem is I'm used to using flash heals as my main heals and I'm not a fan of renew. I'd rather smite when people are up in heals than use renew. I had to change my heal style a lot with cata and I'm still experimenting. Any recommendations for this type of spec are appreciated. :)

Fawkes
01-10-2011, 05:30 AM
I am just hating the fact i keep going oom way to fast in sertan fight even with all my mana tricks to get mana back it leaves me drained and with teh new patch it seems holy preist are getting nerfed again for mana regen.

feralminded
01-10-2011, 01:22 PM
If you are going OOM then you don't have the spirit to support flash heals. Truth be told outside of Chimaeron I would strongly recommend against ever touching a flash heal unless you have to. I currently raid with ~2600 spirit and I still cannot support much in the way of flash healing. Generally if I flash heal a couple of times I consider it a mistake and I should have chosen a better spell. I spend the vast majority of every pull casting heals of some kind so I really see no room for smites. If you want to smite I strongly recommend looking into a disco/atonement spec. It's actually not that bad these days but as holy you just cannot currently afford to smite ... at least not if you are trying to be a serious healer in a raid.

Rankthree
01-11-2011, 06:56 AM
Aliena for this excellent guide (http://www.tankspot.com/member.php?40819-Aliena)
holy priest will even be more epic in the future
but but but werent you disc in a dark dark past?
(http://www.tankspot.com/member.php?40819-Aliena)

Sebadoh
01-11-2011, 08:19 AM
Aliena for this excellent guide (http://www.tankspot.com/member.php?40819-Aliena)
holy priest will even be more epic in the future
but but but werent you disc in a dark dark past?
(http://www.tankspot.com/member.php?40819-Aliena)

Many healing priests have two healing specs and swap back and forth depending on the fight and raid comp.

Grutman
01-11-2011, 11:02 AM
I raid with about 2600 spirit and I am able to Flash Heal at will on Chimaeron. In the 10 man scenario, the pally takes the responsibility of healing dps in group 1 while, I take the responsibility of healing the second group as a holy priest and the resto driud rolls hots on the tanks and keeps the OT topped off as much as possible. I usually use bind heal when I get hit to 1hp, but I don't see anything more efficient then a flash heal on that fight except when serenity is up which heals targets above 10k. I don't use heal because it heals for approx 7-8k without crit and I have had raiders drop because of it. The only mana cd I use is my SF.

In general one thing I found out that a lot of holy priests use is the sanc (aoe circle healing spell) a lot in 10 man raids. The spell itself is useless in 10 man raids. I currently don't remember the top of my head, but I think it is 9k mana for small healing bonus. On Chimaeron 10 man, you also do not want to go through the feud phase more than 3 times and at max 4 times.

feralminded
01-11-2011, 11:40 AM
I raid with about 2600 spirit and I am able to Flash Heal at will on Chimaeron. In the 10 man scenario, the pally takes the responsibility of healing dps in group 1 while, I take the responsibility of healing the second group as a holy priest and the resto driud rolls hots on the tanks and keeps the OT topped off as much as possible. I usually use bind heal when I get hit to 1hp, but I don't see anything more efficient then a flash heal on that fight except when serenity is up which heals targets above 10k. I don't use heal because it heals for approx 7-8k without crit and I have had raiders drop because of it. The only mana cd I use is my SF.

In general one thing I found out that a lot of holy priests use is the sanc (aoe circle healing spell) a lot in 10 man raids. The spell itself is useless in 10 man raids. I currently don't remember the top of my head, but I think it is 9k mana for small healing bonus. On Chimaeron 10 man, you also do not want to go through the feud phase more than 3 times and at max 4 times.

On chim here's the optimal way to handle it as a holy priest (assuming you're in sanctuary for the mass AoE). If you only have 1 target in a group to heal use a greater heal. If you have 2 or more in a group use prayer of healing unless its just you and 1 other then use binding heal. If you have 2 in separate groups use 2 flash heals (unless one is you then binding heal). If you have 1 in one group and more than 1 in a separate then flash the 1 and prayer the other group. As a priest I can indefinitely keep up 2 groups during everything but feud (when I need help from the other healers) using the above strategy. I stay in sanctuary 100% of the time here as my prayer of healing isn't enough without it to bring up both groups post-massacre, plus sanctuary is pretty important during feud. Also as Aliena said above I do personally drop the holyword:sanctuary right before feud hits for the throughput boost.

Uranos7
01-18-2011, 09:16 AM
Spirit is now a direct mana regen increase and not much else. You should make sure that most if not all of your gear has spirit as a stat to ensure you don't run out of mana during a fight, but do not gem or enchant for it unless there is no better option.


I reallize that this post is a few months old but feel that I should mention that for those below the 2k watermark on spirit they should gem/ ench to reach it until they can achieve it with gear alone.
This is the reason many are QQ'n about going OOM all the time in heroics; they are gemming like ppl that are fully raid geared b4 they have the basics covered.

<3 u Aliena = your advice has helped in lvl'n both my priests alot :)

penpen002
01-30-2011, 12:46 PM
Yay the video is up. Thank you.

auralyn21
02-10-2011, 05:17 PM
Yeah this was really helpful. I've been both Holy and Disc, and I really started to like Holy towards the end of wrath. I've been stalking these forums for a while, and I'm always looking for ways to improve my priest. Right now, I'm having a little trouble finding my comfy healing corner. It might just be my gear and such, planet knows I've got to get better gear. It was a good video.

I've never seen that hakkar looking dragon pet. Where is that from, it's cool.

Pruke
03-31-2011, 01:56 PM
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/icons/ipriests.gif Priest (Forums (http://www.mmo-champion.com/forums/274-Priest) / Cataclysm Talent Calculator (http://www.wowtal.com/#k=.9uf.priest) / Skills/Talents (http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/1123-Priest-Cataclysm))
Holy

Holy Word: Sanctuary healing done has been increased by 35%. In addition, it has a new spell effect.

Datra
04-14-2011, 11:59 PM
Hi all,

I was assigned as holy to tank heal on this encounter and the only way I could mange it was by absurd, copious use of flash and greater heals while in Serenity interspersed with PoMs, CoHs, etc. In order to support this I put lightweave on my back, Power Torrent on my weapon, and use the Mandala of Stirring Patterns/Core of Ripeness trinkets.

The strategy was to button mash the above spells using the Core as often as possible, and between 50-70% mana wait for two or three of these to proc. The epic megaton of int would nicely juice my shadowfiend (not to mention help in healing the tank) and I'd get enough mana back to last through the first major push of the encounter.

I do prefer not to flash heal, but when you've got to balls-to-the-wall go for maximum throughput on a single target what is better than FH FH GH POM repeat?

My only regret is I'll never rank on this, as single target healing (for the most part) a tank with Malevolent Strikes will never get you fat, juicy numbers.
~Datra

Megacode
04-15-2011, 10:12 AM
Isn't HW:Sanc getting buffed in 4.1 or has it already been buffed??

Navizion
05-02-2011, 04:24 AM
Nice guide Aliena,

I am trying to be a very good healer but sometimes its not easy even in normal dungeons (not heroic) (only ilevel 327 (just popped 85))
Last nite i got booted cause i had problems getting enough Mana for a boss fight in tolvir.
And then next encounter was halls of origination where i never ran out of mana...

Its about time that dps guys begin to understand that a wipe is not only the problem of the healer or tank...

Sernity
05-03-2011, 11:32 AM
We have a saying in our guild , "You can't heal stupid because you will oom!" and that is a fact. I know players get mad when they die but the truth is I would rather a low dpser go down then the high dps and the tank always take top heals in instances. If I have to heal a dps more then the tank then the dps dies because I'm not going oom to keep a dps up because they can't and won't watch their threat on fights.

Navizion
05-04-2011, 05:06 AM
true, but u know the flaming u get cause of the occasional lock who drops his health for mana in mid fights and then gets blasted ...
yesterday healed first BOT trash run (yes i got the staff now :p ) and BH
so i am progressing, all thanx to this guide :)

Navizion
05-10-2011, 12:09 AM
and thanx to European Elite on Terokkar did my first raid BWD10 and progressed 2/6

natsuko
05-17-2011, 12:12 PM
I still have a huge doubt about holy gearing... whats better staff or main hand+off hand?
Atm im using Amani Scepter of Rites and bioluminescent lamp... havent found a better off hand..but is it better than a staff?

Ellůren
05-18-2011, 03:58 AM
I still have a huge doubt about holy gearing... whats better staff or main hand+off hand?
Atm im using Amani Scepter of Rites and bioluminescent lamp... havent found a better off hand..but is it better than a staff?
It always depends on your *other* gear, in other words, it depends on what stats you're missing.

For example, I used to have huge mana issues so I stacked spirit more than anything else. At that time, Chelley's Staff of Dark Mending was perfect. Now that my gear is all lvl 359 with one 372 piece, I'm fine on mana in most fights but I found I was lacking throughput so I switched to a main hand/off hand combination which together has a good bit more intellect than the staff. So, weigh your options, see what stats need boosting and get the weapon that has those stats. We don't actually *use* our weapons after all, we have them solely for their stats, so there is no "best" option per se, only "best for you at this point in time".

natsuko
05-18-2011, 10:55 AM
Ok thanks m8.

Kikkie
07-06-2011, 12:09 AM
ALiena,

When can we have a full update for 4.2?

Kikkie

Amamaeth
07-06-2011, 05:21 AM
There's wasn't any changes from 4.1 -> 4.2 for holy priests. The only thing you have to look at is gear since blizzard thought it wise to not provide us with a full set of heroic raid spirit gear.

Kikkie
07-07-2011, 02:59 AM
Indeed from 4.1 to 4.2 no big changes but from 4.03 to 4.2 there are changes. Maybe also mention tips how we have to deal with the gear to in the guide. Because it's a guide or not?

Amamaeth
07-08-2011, 09:39 PM
It'll be simply get what spirit pieces you can. If you notice you have mana to spare on encounters, start picking up pieces without spirit. The only hard part is whether or not the trinkets are worth picking up and so far I haven't seen any hard math either way.

Krenian
08-28-2012, 05:49 AM
Not sure if Aliena is still around here but either way, I'll write the same

Please review this guide and post a new one for MoP statistics. =)