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Ciderhelm
10-10-2009, 09:22 PM
fW9I3usa-u0

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Hi, this is Lore from Tankspot and this video will be discussing the 10-man version of the updated Level 80 Onyxia encounter.

When the fight begins, the tank should turn her around and bring her to the far wall, while the rest of the raid spreads out around her. As the original dragon encounter, Onyxia has a frontal breath attack, a cleave, and a tail swipe, so everyone needs to stay at her sides to avoid being hit by any of these. The cleave and tail swipe in particular need to be avoided at all costs, as the cleave can instantly kill even plate DPS, and the tail swipe can easily knock a careless player into the whelp pits and spawn many whelps. Having a second tank ready to pick these up can make the fight go a lot smoother, especially in the later phases.

Phase 1 is very straightforward, and a simple matter of staying alive while bringing her down to 65% health, at which point Phase 2 begins. She'll walk to the other end of the room and take flight, moving out of range of melee DPS. Once she's in the air, a very large wave of whelps will spawn along with an elite Onyxian Lair Guard. It will largely be the responsibility of the tanks and melee DPS to handle these, as ranged should be continuing DPS on Onyxia as much as possible. That said, it's not a bad idea to have one or two AOE classes help burn the large whelp waves down.

The Lair Guards hit fairly hard and have a very high damage AOE that should be interrupted whenever possible. The whelps don't do too much damage by themselves but are very dangerous in large numbers. On top of that, Onyxia will be pelting the raid with fireballs from above, so there's a fair bit of healing to keep an eye out for.

All that being said, by far the most dangerous part of Phase 2 is the infamous Deep Breath. When Onyxia chooses to use this ability, she will fly corner to corner across the room, leaving a wide path of fire on the ground below her. This will make short work of any non-tanks, and isn't particularly healthy for them either, so avoiding this is top priority. Everyone will need to be mindful of where in the room Onyxia is at all times, and when the Deep Breath warning goes out, you must immediately get to the sides of her path to avoid it. For example, here you can see that Onyxia is hovering at the north point of the room. Once she begins her Deep Breath, everyone will need to get to the east or west edges of the room to avoid it.

Once ranged DPS has brought Onyxia down to 40% health, she'll land again and begin Phase 3. This is very similar to Phase 1, and the same positioning should be used. However, there's one very dangerous addition: Bellowing Roar. This is a raid-wide fear that last for three seconds, and is followed closely by an eruption of lava from the cracks in the floor, causing a fair amount of Fire damge. Worse than the Eruption, however, is the fear's tendency to cause players to wander into dangerous areas. It's very easy, especially for melee DPS, to get feared in front of her and cleaved, or behind her and knocked into the whelp pits. It's also very common for the tank to turn Onyxia toward the raid while feared just in time for a breath attack. Anything that can be used to break or resist this fear is very helpful, such as Tremor Totems, Fear Wards, and any racial or class abilities like Will of the Forsaken or Berserker Rage.

Aside from simply breaking the fear, there's a couple tricks you can use to reduce the chances of something going wrong as much as possible. Never be within 3 seconds running distance of the whelp pits -- it's far too easy to wander in there and spawn a bunch of extras. Likewise, try to stay as far away from the front of her as possible. Given the choice, it's usually better to risk getting feared into her tail and knocked into the whelp pits than it is to risk getting feared into a cleave and dying. Ranged can almost completely avoid either possibility, but it's a bit trickier for melee. Fortunately, her hitbox is fairly large, so you can still hit her from a good distance away.

Some whelps will inevitably spawn on even the cleanest of kills, so your second tank should be keeping an eye out for them and rounding them up so that the DPS can handle it. Aside from that, it's simply a matter of keeping your positioning safe and bringing the dragon down.

Thanks for watching this video. As always, for more information on this or any other encounter, check the Project Marmot forums at Tankspot.com. If you're watching this on youtube, just follow the link in the movie details. Good luck!

Mordrene
10-10-2009, 10:14 PM
There are lots of Pug's out there that think the OT is supposed to hold all the whelps and the guards while they stand and watch and so goes the raid. If there are people like this that can't figure out why the tank is dying when the healer is dead and tank is too i would sugest they read up on the fight before pugging. Suggest that they watch or read up on these encounters, it will save alot of gold and flasks believe me. In particular melee dps and both tanks should be helping on whelps so don't jump down your OT's throat cause you guys wipe, think about what you could do to finish the raid. It seems there is so many people playing that they forget what to do and use the tanks as a whipping post, so next time you guys wipe use your minds for problem solving not pointing fingers and cracking wise it gets you no where. Even Pug's should work together and learn what you can before hand not during. Mordrene of Exodar

Gluteas
10-11-2009, 01:19 AM
Did Lore reroll a Warlock? AMGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

Eoika
10-11-2009, 07:54 AM
I just wanted to add in Phase 2 that if your DPS and tank Misses the Ignite Weapon cast time, the buff can be easily removed with a Disarm or Dismantle. The spawn times are such that a rogue and warrior can alternate this every spawn, at least thats what happens when I tank her.

Lore
10-12-2009, 12:42 AM
Did Lore reroll a Warlock? AMGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

I was on an alt.

Part of the reason it took so long to get this video up is that I am terrible at following my own advice and have managed to get feared into a cleave on every kill so far on my pally >.>

Durandro
10-12-2009, 02:20 AM
Many whelps!

Fluxx
10-12-2009, 04:05 AM
The AoE of the gardians you talk about can not be interputed.
Ive tanked them and there immume to my Avengers shield and The hammer stun :P

Also Last man standing (Human) racial can interupt the fear. Though Tremor totem is the best to take.

Chamenas
10-12-2009, 07:02 AM
Lore has a Warlock...

....

Why must he be better than me at everything. *cry*

But seriously, love the video. The fight is easy, but if you're never done it before, or you are having trouble, having a video out there of the current fight is a great resource.

I would leave any raid that thinks they can ignore the adds and leave the tank to die. (provided they didn't realize their mistake and continue to insist..)

solocommand
10-12-2009, 07:17 AM
Also Last man standing (Human) racial can interupt the fear. Though Tremor totem is the best to take.

* Every Man for Himself is the Human racial.

I always manage to get feared and tail swiped into the whelps. >.<

Reev
10-12-2009, 08:20 AM
The fight is relatively easy and I've done it several times on my tank with no issues, but last night, I was pugging it on an alt, and we just couldn't seem to get it done for like 2 hours. Finally, I relogged to my priest so we had 3 healers instead of 2, and it went down on the first shot. Normally I do it with 2, but if you're in a PuG or a group that's having trouble, don't hesitate to bring in a 3rd healer if necessary. The fight isn't a dps race and having a 3rd healer makes a big difference.

Chamenas
10-12-2009, 09:42 AM
I've always done it with 3/6 (10/25) healers

Velisella
10-12-2009, 01:22 PM
You might want to add in a suggestion that if you have any rogues or warriors, they should dismantle/disarm the big add in phase 2.

Qualadifier
10-12-2009, 02:04 PM
The way we've been trying (with various undergeared pugs) is on phase two the healers stand on the tank in the middle of the circle for the first set of whelps and have orders up to not damage whelps until they get to the central tank and he gets a little threat. We are using a paladin as the whelp tank so that helps. I'm not saying a druid, warrior or death knight can't do it but I think paladins are built for it. The other tank is used in phase two to pick up the melee add and pull it back a little so he can still be healed by the central healers at that point the melee dps only will switch to the lair guardian. This works better in my opinion with a more balanced group which is not always possible. If anyone sees holes in this phase two strategy other than an incoming deep breath/whelps combo I'd like to hear it.

Chamenas
10-13-2009, 06:10 AM
Frost DKs are perfect for whelps in phase 2.

PatrikL
10-13-2009, 07:27 AM
I have tried to OT (doing whelps on my own + helping dps on the big adds) this on 10 man a few times now but we always seem to lose a healer (or two). Running with only 2 healers this obviously causes a wipe.
My question is fairly simple, do you guys usually have both tanks help pick up the whelps or only one? The first spawn is usually never a problem when I manage to convince most of the ranged to come to the center but the second or third wave is usually where things go wrong (for example it happening at the time as a deep breath) and whelps get spread over the entire room resulting in a dead clothie or two.

P.S. Am a Frost DK so if I can get anywhere near the whelps in time its usually not an issue convincing them to follow me. Also I have done it on 25 man with success but then we have used more tanks D.S.

Veliron
10-13-2009, 08:15 AM
Thank you for this guide, as I know there have been many strategies that people have come up with and just needed to hear from one of the primary sources.

In my runs through Onyxia (10 and 25), I served as the OT for most of the raids. The keys to success in my opinion is coordinating on grabbing the whelps in the second phase. As the OT, my responsbility was gathering as much whelps as possible and had about two DPS AoE the whelps down. The MT was to gather whelps also, but mainly take on the Elites. What we decided on many pugs was that the MT and OT take one side of the whelps' nest and then join up close to the entrance where the elites would come in. I saw that this was the most effective method.

In the 25, the same strategy was implemented, but we had a total of 3 tanks to help out with controlling the adds/elites.

For reference, I am a pally tank, which many groups chose me automatically as the OT.

ngtes
10-13-2009, 09:12 AM
The warlock seems a little unskilled as a caster dps. His cast bar isnt continuous. There's like a 0.3 second stoppage time of casting after each spell cast. And don't say it's cuz of latency cuz I know of people with 800 latency maintaining a continual cast bar.

Chamenas
10-13-2009, 09:22 AM
In 10 man, both tanks gathered the whelps in the initial spawn since so many come out at once. After that, one tank would pick up the Guardians, and the other tank would pick up whelps when they spawned. I've found that whelps don't generally spawn from both sides from that point on and are fairly manageable. I bring them to the center before dps opens up and tell anyone with whelps on them to come to the center so that I can pull them off.

bonekrusher
10-13-2009, 06:25 PM
When onyxia goes into phase two. We have everyone stack up in the center of the room and let the two tanks fight for aggro. After the last welp is in, we call for dps. The welps are down with plenty of time to spare before the first elite add spawns. Also in 10 man, if your weak on melee dps (meaning You only have one and there under say 2.5k dps.) Keep a weak ranged on the elite add as well to help out. Last thing you want is two adds you have to watch for an aoe blast on.

Fadlan
10-13-2009, 10:07 PM
Anyone else have a problem where, at the start of phase three she eats the DPSers on her through Phase 2? Ive tried both taunts and had to HoP the second target before she would stick on me.

Composure
10-14-2009, 03:47 AM
I'm getting a lot of responses saying that the elite add's blast wave is not infact interruptable, I haven't been able to test this for myself due to class inability. Can I get some feedback here please?

Eoika
10-14-2009, 10:51 AM
The large blastwave is NOT interruptable. Its much like Stormcaller Brundir's Overload where DPS and tanks(?) will need to run away. I believe the thing that people believe is interruptable is the Ignite Weapon ability.

Ion
10-14-2009, 10:52 AM
Ignite is Disarmable. I was assuming by "interrupting" the aoe he meant "don't suck on dps and kill it before it explodes".

Darmaul
10-15-2009, 12:36 PM
EDITED TO ADD:
Ignore the content of my post below. There's a very good reason to take her to the back wall. Her knockback will actually knock you OVER the front wall and into the middle of the whelp cave.

All the strategies I've seen say "the tank should turn her around and bring her to the far wall"

I know that in the original version you definitely would want to do this because there could be respawns in the hall and anyone getting to close to the tunnel could bring in one early. There was also a need to split up sides evenly because whelps would spawn from either side and you had to "handle it".

However, I have yet to see a cogent argument for why NOW in the level 80 version you need to run the risk of getting out of range of healers and having people getting tail swiped while running along with her JUST to tank her at the far wall. Since she stops moving to cast Flame breath, it's actually quite easy for generally competent DPS and heals to overshoot their following distance and be in the wrong position while she's being moved.

The ONLY plus I see to moving her to far wall is that ranged dps standing behind her (OUT of range of tail) have a bit of extra time to dps her while she's running to her launch spot. But that generally only benefits ranged dps since melee generally can't keep up while she's moving.

Conversely, if the tank pulls her and just steps to his/her left and puts back against the wall to the left of where you come in, then there's zero chance of tail swipes, zero chance of being out of range of heals and dps is in range of her the entire time she moves to launch position and the 5-10 seconds of free dps time while she lifts off and no whelps have yet spawned.

Chamenas
10-15-2009, 04:13 PM
I believe she still wing buffets in Phase 3, I've tanked it a few times, but, having always pulled her to the back wall, I haven't had a chance to notice. I've seen a tank drop a total of one time as a result of healers not keeping up as he pulled her back. But, to be honest, that's a fail on the part of healers who should be used to dealing with a tank that has to move for countless other fights.

Zxian
10-15-2009, 11:10 PM
To toot my horn for my main, an Assassination specced Rogue is highly beneficial for the initial clearing of the whelp spawns. When running the 25-man version of this, if the tanks pick up the whelps from the left and right sides of the room and bring them together, the "Focused Attacks" talent paired with Fan of Knives will essentially give the Rogue infinite energy, making their ability to spam FoK limited only by GCD. I don't have a screenshot of recount after the fight, but the burst damage is rediculously high. This usually isn't too big of an issue, but clearing adds faster is never a bad thing. Rogues can also make sure that they help the tanks pick up aggro by popping Tricks of the Trade on them while spamming FoK.

Fluxx
10-19-2009, 03:26 AM
* Every Man for Himself is the Human racial.

I always manage to get feared and tail swiped into the whelps. >.<

Reaction Timer (http://www.topendsports.com/testing/reaction-timer.htm)

Now go train :P

at the tail swipe, just get at her side... Not at the back.

Chamenas
10-19-2009, 07:05 PM
Interesting issue. I've downed Onyxia several times, but have now wiped... 5 times in a row? Mostly due to whelps spawning as she deep breaths. I'm trying to figure out how I'm supposed to pick up aggro when she deep breaths. By the time it's over the adds are on the healers due to any healing they might have done, and by the time I can try to get to them they have too much aggro from healing themselves to live.

I'm out of ideas on what to do.

Zxian
10-20-2009, 01:47 AM
@Lulia - it would be helpful if you could indicate what class of tank you play. Paladins and Death Knights likely have the easiest time picking up whelps, but I can see how it would be difficult for a warrior or, even worse, druid to pick up all the whelps in those scenarios. I can think of two ways that the rest of the group can help out a bit. For the healers, try to get them to stick together as much as possible. This way, you're not having to run many different locations to pick up the whelps. Secondly, if a hunter can MD+Volley on the whelp "entrance way" just as they appear, it makes things much easier for you.

For the deep breaths, we've always had our people run to either side of the breath. For the most part, this makes two pretty distinct groups. If everyone is scattering every-which-way, it can make things quite a bit more difficult.

Fluxx
10-20-2009, 01:50 AM
Interesting issue. I've downed Onyxia several times, but have now wiped... 5 times in a row? Mostly due to whelps spawning as she deep breaths. I'm trying to figure out how I'm supposed to pick up aggro when she deep breaths. By the time it's over the adds are on the healers due to any healing they might have done, and by the time I can try to get to them they have too much aggro from healing themselves to live.

I'm out of ideas on what to do.

I see you are a DK tank. If you have problems with the little welps just trow a D&D near 1 side, and if she then uses here deep breath it will still be up near the side so you get most of the welps to you. You can also keep near her deep breath and pop magic bubble so you get protected by it so you can just get the aggro before healers do.

If its a big add its a bit tricky, You can just wait near the ramp were they come running out of. Or you can wait abit in the middle, DKs can death grip those adds so if you still miss it just dont let the healers get near the ramp because then they will get aggro before you can taunt.

Also the new version of DBM shows when adds spawn out of them self. So you can keep an eye for that as well.

Chamenas
10-20-2009, 06:36 AM
I'll update my DBM, but I have a relatively recent version and its whelp spawn timer is way off. It does not come anywhere near predicting them and is, as such, effectively useless. Since this is 10 man, the other tank is tanking the big add, and I'm collecting both sides of whelps. Luckily, on 10 man, only one side spawns a bunch (4 or 5?) while the other spawns only 2. However, I never know which side it's going to be, so I'm in the middle. What I'm talking about here is that I will see a side start spawning, head over to it, only to get the Deep Breath echo and run to a safe hiding spot. The whelps continue to spawn and when the deep breath is over are all over the healers because of healing aggro as healers healed people during the deep breath.

I've thought about tossing a D&D into a vague area in the deep breath where I presume the whelps to be, but, it doesn't seem particularly useful in that sense. If I miss them, then I waste my D&D and only have the snap aggro of Howling Blast to back me up. And no, Howling Blast does not have decent enough threat to retain aggro.

Maybe I just need to react to whelp spawning faster? Maybe I'm not supposed to solo tank that? I don't know, but it's very frustrating that that's what happened all night last night. In fact, one time, she had 3 consecutive deep breaths (all within like 5 seconds of the other), and the first one came right after a whelp spawn...

Kioku
10-20-2009, 07:26 AM
The fight is easy enough, as long as your tanks are decently geared. Our main tank (me, paladin) is Naxx25/Ulduar10 geared for the most part (32k unbuffed) and had no trouble tanking Ony, whelps, or big adds. However, our OT (warrior 29k unbuffed) was getting rflpwnt by the big adds. We switched him to dps and got our other pally into his tank set and the fight got much easier.

Our strategy--
Pulling-I pull Ony to the same spot mentioned in video. If you are having trouble with positioning her (I admit it, I turned her wrong once and walked back into a whelp pit), continue walking straight through her until she has turned completely around before turning around yourself, and use her as a guide as to where straight back is. The mini-map also helps.

P1- EVERYONE who isn't the main tank stacks up on her back legs. This way, they are out of the cleave, away from the tail, and in easy healing range. In our strategy, the focus is on staying grouped up, for the most part. We use Heroism as soon as the tank has good aggro, but this is only if your groups dps is rather low. In our case, it is available again in p3, where you REALLY want to have it. In a high dps group, I would save it for p3.

P2- when Ony flies into the air, EVERYONE... EVERYONE groups up in the center of the room. As we currently have no DK tank, this is our easiest way to be sure that our tanks can pick up the whelps. As soon as all the whelps are aggroed onto the tanks, all dps burn down the first wave of whelps. Once they are down, the group splits up as follows:
(1) Main tank remains on whelp duty. Keeping an eye out for whelp spawns and helping with large adds when needed,
(2) OT picks up the large adds--NOTE: These adds CAN AND SHOULD be disarmed by warriors or rogues. This is the primary reason for putting melee on these adds. Disarming them will stop their AOE ability, making healing much easier. We assign 2 melee (in our case a paladin and a warrior) to killing these adds. These adds are tanked at the Northern most wall, where they spawn from.
(3) Two ranged dps stay on Onyxia AT ALL TIMES after the first whelps are dead. Our other 2 ranged dps focus on her when there are no whelps, but when they spawn, they help the tank kill them to help the healers. (For us, our shaman and Arc mage stay on Ony, lock and fire mage do whelps. Whelp ppl can help melee with big adds, too, if they are getting behind.)
During this phase, we assign one of the ranged that never leaves the boss to call out the direction of deep breath. Also, we make sure that Ony isn't brought down again until all whelps and big adds are dead.

P3- Ony redescends from the sky, and MT picks her up again, and faces her against a wall. Our shaman drops a tremor totem in the tank/healer group, everyone stacks on her back leg again. This may take a little practice in positioning, as you want to be sure to tank her away from the whelp pits. As soon as Exhaustion is gone, blow heroism. Burn burn burn, pass out shiny loots!

I hope this helped!

Kioku
10-20-2009, 07:28 AM
Interesting issue. I've downed Onyxia several times, but have now wiped... 5 times in a row? Mostly due to whelps spawning as she deep breaths. I'm trying to figure out how I'm supposed to pick up aggro when she deep breaths. By the time it's over the adds are on the healers due to any healing they might have done, and by the time I can try to get to them they have too much aggro from healing themselves to live.

I'm out of ideas on what to do.

I would try getting your healers to stay near tanks. For example, the healer assigned to the tank on big adds should stay within about 10 yards of him, and the other healers should stay near the whelp tank.

Kioku
10-20-2009, 07:36 AM
All the strategies I've seen say "the tank should turn her around and bring her to the far wall"

I know that in the original version you definitely would want to do this because there could be respawns in the hall and anyone getting to close to the tunnel could bring in one early. There was also a need to split up sides evenly because whelps would spawn from either side and you had to "handle it".

...................

Conversely, if the tank pulls her and just steps to his/her left and puts back against the wall to the left of where you come in, then there's zero chance of tail swipes, zero chance of being out of range of heals and dps is in range of her the entire time she moves to launch position and the 5-10 seconds of free dps time while she lifts off and no whelps have yet spawned.

I've tried doing it like this too, and we found moving her to the back wall helpful for several reasons. First of all, because of the way that she aggros, positioning her on a close wall is... well, quite difficult. The tank must have their back against the wall, and the side walls are a bit more rounded. I could see it working in a group with a hunter who has a misdirect or something of that nature, but as we don't have one in my 10 man, I have found it better to just go to the back. Also, this puts everyone as far away as possible from whelp pits. It also gives dps a pretty good idea of when they can start dpsing, instead of guessing on how long they wait to give tank time to aggro. I tell my raid they can go ahead and lay into her as soon as I make it to the back wall. Tanks can pop a CD if necessary if they feel they will die before a healer can save them. I've never died on the initial pull, even with only a couple of hots on me.

Steelwind
10-20-2009, 08:26 AM
I am a big ol Bear and I have MT and OT this encounter on 10 and 25 man what follows is a post that I popped on the guild website and I reference the video on this site ffor the obvious reasons, but there are a couple things that i do a little bit different then the average bear, and I believe that my reasons are justified :) the easier u can simplify an encounter the faster you move on to the next one, I have macro's set up for all northrend boss encounters that are a lil tricky
So guys its pretty much the same fight thru and thru
here is a vid to watch that will assist you i am sure
the big thing to remember is getting tossed in with the whelps can 50/50 u towards a wipe its more like 80/20 if the OT/s (25) man = 2 OT are not paying close attention
if you are a ranged palyer its quite simple stay the hell away from the whelp entrance and stay away from the tail... Dragon rules apply to ony she has a bastardizing widow's cleave, justly named beacuse u will have your guts ripped out by her if u get to close to those giant front claws, her tail will send you outta heally range and into the whelps if u are hit the wrong way,
http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f206/56736-dustwallow-marsh-onyxia.html

so phase one goes til 65% once she hits that magic number she splits and hits the air lookin to frickasee' somebody,

during this phase one OT should be on one side of the whelp holes and The MT should be on the other the other OT should be dealing with the Big adds that come strolling down the tunnel that the raid enters from, whelps very simple gather them up in the centre of the room, don't go nutz on the DPS until the tanks have the aggro on whelps and they are centered together or u are just wasting valuable time and mana, DK's and Locks are stellar for the whelps aoe burn down, locks can SoC them and get right back on ony and DK D&D does a nice number on them get as much DPS on the whelps as fast as u can , for when the big adds come all melee needs to focus on burning the shit outta them prior to his blasstwave, MELEE GET THE F@#$ OUTTA THE BLASTWAVE cast by the big adds if u do not u will start a domino effect, healers become over taxed tanks become underhealed I am sure u see where i am going with this,

The main reason that the MT should not be on the big adds is due to the Ony drop n fry I have sen her do, if you are wise like me u create macros at 42% i spam a macro advising DPS to slow down on Ony until the adds are down, now some have said it should be spammed at 45 % I say BS to that, anyone know what 2% of 22million , or 2% of 6million is ?? its a S-load , if ranged dps stops and just the dots are on her at 42% she will be down to 41.5% with just the dots, once the adds are down ALL Raid members healers included toss dots throw weapons piles of bear poop tosss any and everything at her the MT needs to be over near where she is flying so he can pick her up straight away, soft DPS til the tank has her positioned on the floor properly, now i have seen several peeps tank her different ways but here is what I have found to work quite well and it seems to keep the raid from getting either feared or tossed into the whelps, position her on one side of the cave or the other , during phase one the tank pulls her straight back so that her ass is facing the entrance to the encounter, during phase three same idea but off to one side or the other ranged can stay closer to the middle of the cave and have less chance to fear into whelps and melee sits behind her front elbow and is far enuf away to not get feared into the whelps, have a shammy in the Tanks group from the start for tremor totem, and for the love of God if u are a prist and u have more then one priest in ur raid casst fear ward on the tank during phase 3 it makes her a much more relaxed encounter when her tail isnt thrashing about because the tank is running around feared and she follows his path, and so does her tail.

Other then that she is quite easy to drop on 10 and 25 man, DPS minimums for ony 10 3200 Ony 25 u should be bangin at a minimum of 3500 to 3600 it makes for an enjoyable raid when all people are geared and ready to go:)

Chamenas
10-20-2009, 09:27 AM
From what I've seen here, I think my best bet when whelps happen just before a deep breath on 10 man is this:

Instead of running over (since I'm a DK, lucky me) I can use my range to lay down a death and decay where the majority of the whelps are spawning. I can then run out of the deep breath and will likely have most of their aggro. And strays can be picked off by having their target run to me or the selective use of taunts and death grips.

Thanks

Steelwind
10-20-2009, 10:53 AM
From what I've seen here, I think my best bet when whelps happen just before a deep breath on 10 man is this:

Instead of running over (since I'm a DK, lucky me) I can use my range to lay down a death and decay where the majority of the whelps are spawning. I can then run out of the deep breath and will likely have most of their aggro. And strays can be picked off by having their target run to me or the selective use of taunts and death grips. Lulia

Yes essentially all u need is DPS with common sense they do not aggro ony til she is in place in phase 1 and with the 25 man ony one tank at each side of the whelp caves and one on big adds and its easy peezy whelp tank should be slowly making their way to each other with all of the whelps once they are both in the middle blast the buttocks off of em with everything u have D&D at the whelp entrance will be super duper to gain initial aggro and as u get closer to ur tanking partner blast it again, Big Bears Swipe = not a chance in hell a DPS is pullin off of me, I usually use CRoar when i get to the centre with the whelps and the other tank has made it there just because he can be freed up then if ness for another big add if there is one already in play, and another on his way down the tunn. I would recommend a /y or /RW for Croar for situations like these because once all the adds focus on u, a healer can get caught off guard, this whole encounter is a simple wash rinse and repeat process, again I stress the importance of the macro's that are easily made.... wiped 6xs in one encounter left the group and waited a day made all my macro's and have not had a wipe since. I would also recommend that for another month or so u ask everyone in vent if they know the encounter (if u use vent) and just have a guildie or a friend say " No never been here before" get those shy kids (and you know who you are) who never say anything about never being there before out into the open one way or the other :) hope it helps if u need any more suggestions feel free to come see me in game :)

Chamenas
10-20-2009, 12:19 PM
That wall of text is awful, I have to admit, even if you're only trying to be helpful. Split it up a little. I just wanted to say that I've downed Ony several times and I have no problem gathering whelps or keeping aggro. It was this specific situation that I ran into last night which I was having continuous problems with. If the whelps hadn't kept spawning right before a deep breath it would have been as easy as all the other times we downed her.

Darmaul
10-21-2009, 06:31 AM
All the strategies I've seen say "the tank should turn her around and bring her to the far wall"

However, I have yet to see a cogent argument for why NOW in the level 80 version you need to run the risk of getting out of range of healers and having people getting tail swiped while running along with her JUST to tank her at the far wall. Since she stops moving to cast Flame breath, it's actually quite easy for generally competent DPS and heals to overshoot their following distance and be in the wrong position while she's being moved.


So... funny story. There actually is a VERY good reason to tank her on the back wall. Turns out her knock back will actually knock you OVER the wall and into the middle of the whelp cave even when your back is right up against the wall. :o

Found this out last night in an epicly cool battle where for a short time I was tanking Onyxia and 80+ whelps "IN" the whelp cave after my amazing healers followed Ony into the whelp cave to keep healing me. Pulled her out of the cave, then aoe'd the whelps and then... moved her to the back wall and continued as per normal.

Steelwind
10-21-2009, 07:47 AM
Found this out last night in an epicly cool battle where for a short time I was tanking Onyxia and 80+ whelps "IN" the whelp cave after my amazing healers followed Ony into the whelp cave to keep healing me. Pulled her out of the cave, then aoe'd the whelps and then... moved her to the back wall and continued as per normal.

Did ya get ur achievement for it ?? :)

Darmaul
10-21-2009, 01:55 PM
There was much talk about that and after looking we determined that the whelps had to hatch withing 10 seconds of her lifting off (not sure if it's 10 sec before, after or both) and she was at still above 95% when she knocked me over the wall.

But we did decide that next we'd go for achievement and just have tanks run into caves while she's headed back for liftoff. They were pretty easy to pick up when you're in the cave with 'em.

uglybbtoo
10-21-2009, 08:32 PM
In 25 man you have 3 tanks and in the air phase, you have left pit tank, right pit tank and big adds tank there simply shouldn't be whelps free. Each tank has there own healer who stays close.

As pit add tank it's pretty cyclic pick up mob at your pit generate some agro on them walk them over to middle nuke down ... rinse repeat.

The dps need to be selective about what they are dps'ing onyxia, welps or big adds. Our usual instructions are if there are 2 big adds up all dps onto the skull marked big add. If welps are in middle range use 1 or max 2 full aoe cycles on them (if they keep aoe'ing they will most likely out agro the tank and die to whelps) then range goes straight back to onyxia. When she deep breaths everybody gets to side.

We find with those simple instructions even the most retarded pugs can do it.

SNB
10-22-2009, 08:04 AM
What we do in my guild is burn heroism towards the end of phase 1, since she runs off and just hovers in the air for quite a bit a tthe start of phase 2.
We try to burn her there as much as possible to shorten phase 2.

Ryoku
10-25-2009, 07:45 AM
what would you say would be the minimum mtying requirements for the 25 man version, i did the 10 version a couple of times now.
If you want her is my armory: The World of Warcraft Armory (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Les+Clairvoyants&cn=Ryoku&gn=All+in+one+all+the+days)

Fluxx
10-26-2009, 07:54 AM
what would you say would be the minimum mtying requirements for the 25 man version, i did the 10 version a couple of times now.
If you want her is my armory: The World of Warcraft Armory (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Les+Clairvoyants&cn=Ryoku&gn=All+in+one+all+the+days)

Well... id say you would be fine.
For more info on your current gear status and raids you should focus on you can go to wow-heroes.com

i found a direct link to your char. which is:
WoW Heroes - World of Warcraft PvE character info & ratings (http://www.wow-heroes.com/index.php?zone=eu&server=Les Clairvoyants&name=Ryoku)

kalharas
10-27-2009, 02:09 AM
This is a question related 25man Ony.

Last night we did our first 25man run after months (yay!) but Onyxia was a big trouble for us.

This was of course caused by lots of DCs when AOE was pouring down all they have on whelps but I died 2 times in a row before that even.


First death : When I started the pull and she first hit me with cleave of 27k and 1 sec later 20k of normal hit.

2nd death : Caused by a cleave of 25-27k followed by wing buffet of 26-27k (i think)again within 1 second during phase 1.


Now as these could be bad luck I wonder if more healing (along with no DCs) would be necessary. We had 5 healers ; 1 disco priest, 1 resto shammy and 3 resto druids.

Or is it because I should gear myself up (or any other tanks in that matter of course) a bit more? I know wow-heroes says I should focus on Toc25 and Ony25 but still it wouldn't hurt to ask :)

Elvira
11-06-2009, 03:44 PM
Kk i've bn tanking Ony both in Vanilla and her new Wotlk versions. but recently bn getting 1shotted when doing the pull on 25 man after several attempts got the pally tank to do it instead. now my question is is it me ie my gear or is there something we doing wrong [ie me] or is my gear not good enough for it The World of Warcraft Armory (http://armory.wow-europe.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Aggramar&n=Tyr%C3%AD) ----------------

Nephelai
11-06-2009, 07:28 PM
I have actually found that tanking her in a back corner works well for both phase one and phase three. I do this by kiting her strait up the middle, then sliding east along the wall until I am in the corner and she is up against the wall. Its good for the rest of the raid to know which corner you are going for so they can move up the room on the opposite side from the side the tail will be rotating on, but simple instructions save all but the densest ones.

During phase 1 this only has one advantage... the tail is as far as possible from either whelp cave entrance.. and in a place where nobody is likely to be hit by it to begin with.

During Phase 3 there is an added advantage to putting her lengthwise against the north wall... the tank is standing in a corner so the directions he can get feared into are controlled. You can't go North so the tail can't go south and into the raid. You can't go East either. If you fear in either of these directions you will end up against the wall and movement will be extremely minimal. South shouldn't be much of a problem because the raid is all around the midsection so they won't get hit by the breath. In fact only a very unlucky South West orientation combined with very unlucky timing on the breath attack, will cause the raid to get hit by the breath.

So no tail swipes on raid, very low probability of breath on the raid, and generally solid control of position when feared, make positioning her lengthwise up against the north wall seem optimal to me.

jjokeefe
11-12-2009, 06:27 AM
Is she tauntable when she lands for Phase 3? I believe, back in the olden days, you could not taunt her at all. Thanks!

Synapse
11-12-2009, 06:59 AM
Big thing for the AOE DCs(as a tank, this was pretty important for me to solve): Disable recount and any similar combat log tool. I went from "DCing within 5 seconds of 0,2fps whelp burning" to "Smoothly, at 60 fps, handling each of the many many whelps being burned by most of the raid".

Not hide, not reconfigure, DISABLE.

Steelwind
11-12-2009, 11:44 AM
Phase three = back wall with a twist if you so desire, I bring her along the back wall but not straight in , instead of a back wall approach as u do in phase one i have her tail turned either to the left or right whelp cave all DPS ranged and melee stay to one side of her, her tail is damn near at the cave entrance and everyone is far enough away from the cave entrance during her fear that extra adds are eliminated thru this process as well all healers are always in range of all raid members and we have " GReatT SuCCeSS, and then we ask Ony for Sexxy time" :)