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View Full Version : Was told I don't have the gear to tank Ulduar o.O



Venom Rush
10-08-2009, 08:38 AM
As the title states, I was told last night by the assigned MT(guildie) that I don't have the gear to tank Ulduar. This only came up on the Ignis fight where the MT assigned me to tank Ignis as he said that "handling the adds is more difficult than tanking Ignis".

We wiped roughly 4-5 times on this fight which I'm completely convinced was the fault of the healers in that they were being silenced by flame jets.

Needless to say the MT kept blaming the wipe on me not having the gear. So I'd like to ask you all here what your thoughts are on this.

WoW Armory (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Ahn%27Qiraj&n=Unruley)

P.S. My HP was sitting just over 34k fully raid buffed.

manbearpig
10-08-2009, 08:42 AM
Your MT was wrong.

morelore
10-08-2009, 08:46 AM
34k raid buffed is a little low, especially if this was 25. Even if they're not getting locked out by the jets, its several seconds that you can't be safely healed except by instants, so depending on your healer comp you may need the EH to soak several hits. 34k puts you in danger of gibbing.

I wouldn't kick you out for it, but I would make sure the healers were ready with backups to get you healed during the jets.

Venom Rush
10-08-2009, 08:49 AM
Your MT was wrong.
Thanks for clearing that up. A few more comments from others confirming this would be great. It'll make my case more solid. Thanks.

Venom Rush
10-08-2009, 08:49 AM
34k raid buffed is a little low, especially if this was 25. Even if they're not getting locked out by the jets, its several seconds that you can't be safely healed except by instants, so depending on your healer comp you may need the EH to soak several hits. 34k puts you in danger of gibbing.

I wouldn't kick you out for it, but I would make sure the healers were ready with backups to get you healed during the jets.
I forgot to mention that this was 10 man Ulduar

Wilhem
10-08-2009, 09:14 AM
Also, how fast was your raiding dispensing of the golems? I believe he does 10% extra damage for each one that is up.

Venom Rush
10-08-2009, 09:23 AM
Also, how fast was your raiding dispensing of the golems? I believe he does 10% extra damage for each one that is up.
I actually couldn't say. My focus was on tanking Ignis, watching CD's etc. I didn't notice more than one up at a time so I presume killing them wasn't an issue.

luv2tank
10-08-2009, 09:54 AM
i will agree and say that your gear is fine for uld 10, however-i think a few naxx25, voa10/25 and things like that can def. benefit you in the long run. Heroic epics are epics however tier sets and naxx epics that are suited for you as a dk can be more helpful for you as a tank. People forget that prior to 3.2, everyone else was still tanking uld10 as their starter in naxx25 gear or less. As for your gear being the blame for not downing ignis thats just plain dumb.

Padinbann
10-08-2009, 09:58 AM
I agree with what everyone has said u are geared enough for 10 Man Ulduar especially the first few easy bosses And just from curiosity what class is the MT anyways?

solocommand
10-08-2009, 10:03 AM
Your MT was wrong.

Venom Rush
10-08-2009, 10:16 AM
I agree with what everyone has said u are geared enough for 10 Man Ulduar especially the first few easy bosses And just from curiosity what class is the MT anyways?
He is a pally.

Daavos
10-08-2009, 10:25 AM
In order to tank tier 8 content you much have tier 9 gear. :P

JayM
10-08-2009, 10:29 AM
Wow your MT must have hi head up his @#$.

If your group is just geared for this fight.... and your best healer goes in the pot, well that can cause a wipe real fast.

Take a look at your recount and see how you were taking dmg. You can determine if your gear is ok. Goto the "Deaths" page and click on your name,the last few seconds of the fight will be shown, did you just slowly run out of HP or was Ignis taken huge chunks at a time? Even if he was hitting you like a truck, that is not a cause for a wipe, that is why we have healers... I expect you were flasked, and had a potion of industrutability? These will help a little, the potion during the healer silence is a self preservation move, and hell they last 2 min, and extra 3500 armor will mitigate he hits a bit.

Get a combat logger, and review after the fights.... how much are you actually not getting hit? As you cant carry a shield, knowing actually how much you mitigate is very important.

If this MT keeps givin you hell, well there are a ton of other guilds you can run with, so bounce, and find one that wants to find a way to beat the boss, not beat up the other players for a wipe..

Good luck

Wilhem
10-08-2009, 10:29 AM
lol Sadly it feels as if that's how people judge sometimes...

Theotherone
10-08-2009, 10:40 AM
I think your MT is "special". Did he ride the short bus to school?

One suggestion. You might want to move the 2 talent points from Icy Reach to 2 Handed Weapon Sepcialization - the 4% damage is better for threat and damage then the distance gain from Icy Reach.

uglybbtoo
10-09-2009, 12:10 AM
We wiped roughly 4-5 times on this fight which I'm completely convinced was the fault of the healers in that they were being silenced by flame jets.

Needless to say the MT kept blaming the wipe on me not having the gear. So I'd like to ask you all here what your thoughts are on this.



Gears fine.

Can I ask the obvious question were you straffiing the moment you saw him setup the jets to put the hot spot down.

Standing in that crap for any length of time will stress the healers ... its the biggest thing you can do to minimize damage.

Venom Rush
10-09-2009, 12:16 AM
I think your MT is "special". Did he ride the short bus to school?

One suggestion. You might want to move the 2 talent points from Icy Reach to 2 Handed Weapon Sepcialization - the 4% damage is better for threat and damage then the distance gain from Icy Reach.
Threat isn't an issue for me so I put the two point into Icy Reach for the purpose of using HB as a secondary pull option because DnD is usually on cooldown when I need to pull the next group of mobs.

Venom Rush
10-09-2009, 12:19 AM
Gears fine.

Can I ask the obvious question were you straffiing the moment you saw him setup the jets to put the hot spot down.

Standing in that crap for any length of time will stress the healers ... its the biggest thing you can do to minimize damage.
The second I saw Ignis casting scorch I started strafing. So I was never taking too much damage if any from it.

jaydee
10-09-2009, 12:26 AM
Your gear is ok. I had so much less gear that what you had when I started with Ulduar 10. Only thing I notice is your low dodge + parry. Maybe some enchants (prof and reputation enchants) could help, if they're not yet there.

Check if your healers are getting silenced during the jets, and if the adds are getting downed fast enough, because they buff Ignis for each one of them running around.

Also, in our guild, we find it best to use a DK tank for taking care of the adds, because of Chains of Ice. Kite them through the scorched patch, chain them as they go in, by the time they cross the patch, they're already molten. Run to the water, then taunt or grip them in.

Skaggi
10-09-2009, 02:50 AM
Hi there!

I'm quite at a loss. I can't understand people like your "MT" who blame others for several wipes and don't switch positions.

As others have mentioned DKs have superior utility for addtanking on Ignis and should be on that duty over a pally anyway (and yes, I play tankadin).

Your gear should carry you through the encounter if nothing goes seriously wrong >> Heals to pot and / or interrupted. Always keep a CD for that situation up your sleeve.

Other than that a log analysis would be needed.

To stop the flames you should get yourself an addon like Grimreaper or Recount where you can 'replay' the death of a tank and look what really was the issue.

And you should have a word with your "MT". Tanking is a team sport. If it doesn't work out, the raid is doomed later anyway.

Cheers!
skaggi

Hades
10-11-2009, 02:51 AM
Ok, here's my take on it. The other tank needs to do two things. The first, they need to know wtf they're talking about. You've got plenty of gear by both gear score and any other measurement you might want to bring into play. The second is that if the raid wipes with you tanking the boss, maybe the other guy needs to trade places with you.

Some things you might look into:
Plain and simple, more strength. You might not be having threat issues, but more strength will also up your avoidance due to a DK's passive "Forceful Deflection" which turns strength to parry. Not to mention you'll have better threat, which is never a bad idea. Also, Marrowstrike is a damn good weapon. Don't get it twisted, it's great. For a hunter. It'll do you solid until you get something with strength on it instead of AP, but when that option presents itself, dive on it so long as it's not too big of a damage downgrade. DKs get exactly jack out of agility, as opposed to hunters who get double ranged AP from agility, much like DKs do with strength in a melee capacity.

luv2tank
10-12-2009, 11:58 PM
DKs get exactly jack out of agility, as opposed to hunters who get double ranged AP from agility, much like DKs do with strength in a melee capacity.

Every tank class benefits from agility. Mouse over it next time you are in game.

Venom Rush
10-13-2009, 03:44 AM
Every tank class benefits from agility. Mouse over it next time you are in game.
I was going to say ;P

DK's get crit and armor from agility. At least thats what my tooltip tells me.

Xianth
10-13-2009, 04:36 AM
I was going to say ;P

DK's get crit and armor from agility. At least thats what my tooltip tells me.

and dodge.

Denekawa
10-13-2009, 06:00 AM
Depends on which strategy you use. One employs taking out a construct at a time, the other just has you pick up each add as they spawn and tank them all. The latter requires well geared tanks because the stacking debuff will make it impossible to heal both tanks in short order. It's an all out DPS burn from start to finish.

If you are on adds and use the one at a time approach, the adds hit for nothing, it's the fire damage that you take while kiting them through the fire that will kill you if you don't mitigate the damage in some way. This is why you usually have a class that can slow or lock down the add in the fire while not actually in the fire themself. Have someone root the construct in the fire, chains of ice them in the fire, what have you. The idea is that the construct stays in the fire, you don't. If you rotate OTs on the adds, there is less damage per OT than if just one OT does the adds.

To be quite honest, both tasks are relatively easy to do, the OT job requires more movement than the MT job, that's pretty much it.

As for parry, it is the one stat that has the highest diminishing returns for a DK because of our racial. I would never socket or itemize for parry at all. If the gear comes with it, fine, but I would never go out of my way to acquire it. Dodge is always a better stat to work towards. Stam of course being a no-brainer.

Venom Rush
10-13-2009, 08:13 AM
Well since posting my OP I have replaced the 3 blue items I had and replaced my HoL trinket with Essence of Gossomar. The only way I can get upgrades now is by doing Ulduar or getting badges of triumph (and perhaps a few VoA runs, but nothing terribly exciting in there)

Haruk
10-13-2009, 08:16 AM
I think you gear is fine. The combo of your gear and your tanking spec though might not be the best. Blood tanking doesn't have the damage mitigation that the other specs have so it relies on a larger health pool. The health pool + Vampiric Blood + self healing help the Blood tank a lot. I have the same issue so I went to Frost and then Unholy tanking and I did better in both specs. I settled on unholy though for is extra magic mitigation as my raid has plenty of tanks that have high physical attack mitigation.

Bashal
10-13-2009, 08:32 AM
Yeah, your gear looks fine to Uld10 to me. Your group's makeup, buffs available, and the general skill level of the rest of your group can affect things greatly though. They may be accustomed to putting more emphasis on the tank's gear (a common theme) to overcome any shortcomings in the rest of the raid.

Or it may just be the "zomg u cant tank heroics with <30k hp" syndrome at work here.

Venom Rush
10-14-2009, 12:51 AM
To stop the flames you should get yourself an addon like Grimreaper or Recount where you can 'replay' the death of a tank and look what really was the issue.
How do I 'replay' deaths with Recount??

Venom Rush
10-14-2009, 12:53 AM
I think you gear is fine. The combo of your gear and your tanking spec though might not be the best. Blood tanking doesn't have the damage mitigation that the other specs have so it relies on a larger health pool. The health pool + Vampiric Blood + self healing help the Blood tank a lot. I have the same issue so I went to Frost and then Unholy tanking and I did better in both specs. I settled on unholy though for is extra magic mitigation as my raid has plenty of tanks that have high physical attack mitigation.
My frost spec is my main spec and is the one I use for Ulduar. I just picke dup blood to see what all the hooha was about ;P

Mert
10-14-2009, 05:00 AM
As people have said, DKs are definitely great for tanking the adds on this fight - while it could be seen as a "harder" job (and to be fair, tanking adds is often the more complicated tanking role) DKs have a range of tools available to them that really help. Chains of Ice can keep them in the fire until they're almost molten, Anti-Magic Shell can be used for those times where you simply have to stand in the fire, Deathgrip can pull stray adds that get in the raid or pull Molten adds straight into a pool... and so on.

As a Paladin all he can really do is stun them for 10 seconds in the fire and... well, just stand in the fire and take it.

10-man Ulduar was tuned for people in full Naxx-10 gear and it's been nerfed since then! Now that you can get a range of 200-226 epics plus a 232-245 or two simply from running Heroics and nothing else, nobody should be realistically claiming you're "under-geared".

Sounds to me like he was probably struggling with add management due to his class not being optimal for the role and blaming it on you. Maybe the healers weren't getting silenced by Flame Jets but were having to spend too much of their time focussing on him standing in the fire?

When you guys get to Iron Council he'll probably say you should be on Steelbreaker because "tanking two bosses is harder". Sigh.

Fledern
10-15-2009, 12:25 AM
What Mert said. Pala & warrior tanks have to stand in the scorch so they can pick up the add after it goes molten & resets aggro (while the healers are aoe healing the raid, thus generating massive aggro). Tanking adds IS usually harder but not in this case as a DK. Getting the right man for the right job is what raid leading is about.