PDA

View Full Version : Rage Generation problems [Fury]



Kneez
10-03-2009, 04:19 AM
Hello all you lovely chaps and chappettes at tankspot, ive been browsing a while to try to find the source of my problem, but any thread remotely close to my situation, always seems to be off by a alot, hence i figure i should make my own thread.

Atm im having some issues with my rage generation in both 10/25mans, i would consider myself fairly well versed in being a fury warrior, been at it for almost a year now, so i know my rotation isnt the problem, WW-BT-slam[when its up] and HC strike at 70+ rage.
Ive got a feeling it might be my build, a fellow warrior in the guild runs with 5/5 in unbridled wrath, and from what we've spoken about he seems to get a fairly high rage intake compared to me.
Our setups in both raids seem to be fairly consistent, so that kinda outs that variable.

TL;DR: Im getting rubbish rage generation in both 10/25mans and its hampering my dps by about 1k in each sector, currently getting around 3.5k in 10mans, and about 4.5k in 25mans :/. Wondering what i can do to up this.

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Jaedenar&n=Kneez)
38% crit unbuffed is the tooltip reads wrong like it usually does.

I know with my gear i shud be getting alot more.

Weren
10-03-2009, 06:42 AM
Hello all you lovely chaps and chappettes at tankspot, ive been browsing a while to try to find the source of my problem, but any thread remotely close to my situation, always seems to be off by a alot, hence i figure i should make my own thread.

Atm im having some issues with my rage generation in both 10/25mans, i would consider myself fairly well versed in being a fury warrior, been at it for almost a year now, so i know my rotation isnt the problem, WW-BT-slam[when its up] and HC strike at 70+ rage.
Ive got a feeling it might be my build, a fellow warrior in the guild runs with 5/5 in unbridled wrath, and from what we've spoken about he seems to get a fairly high rage intake compared to me.
Our setups in both raids seem to be fairly consistent, so that kinda outs that variable.

TL;DR: Im getting rubbish rage generation in both 10/25mans and its hampering my dps by about 1k in each sector, currently getting around 3.5k in 10mans, and about 4.5k in 25mans :/. Wondering what i can do to up this.

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Jaedenar&n=Kneez)
38% crit unbuffed is the tooltip reads wrong like it usually does.

I know with my gear i shud be getting alot more.

You've got better gear than me and doing the same/less damage than me. I don't use Anger Management or Unbridled Wrath, so I want to say I think it's your rotation. I don't know the point at which people find it better to switch to ArP gems but I assume it's a decision made when you have a Mjolnir Runestone or Grim Toll.

Can you provide any WWS, WOL, etc logs for people to review?

Destruyen
10-03-2009, 06:46 AM
when i go fury i take a 19/52 build, the deviation from 18/53 is anger management and 4/5 uw to help on rage. because my gear is optimized for arms (and i have sucky fury weapons), this lets me hs at 50+ rage and not rage starve myself.

to me it sounds more like a rotation problem honestly since with 277 hit as fury you should have 0 rage problems.

Kneez
10-03-2009, 07:37 AM
Hmmmmm, okay, im gonna see how raiding goes this week and work on my rotation a bit, hopefully that is the problem, i cant quiet make out what im doing wrong though, any thoughts?

Destruyen
10-03-2009, 07:40 AM
rage starvation as fury = too much hs usually...

Vissara
10-03-2009, 07:44 AM
I've been toying around with fury and the only time I've noticed a rage issue is an early HS. Granted I have a ton more hit than I need, but if you pop that HS too soon, you'll mess up the rotation

kemikalkadet
10-03-2009, 07:48 AM
Are you using berserker rage and bloodrage every time they're up? They can provide a hefty amount of rage when you rotate them often.

Strit
10-03-2009, 07:58 AM
My offspec is fury, and even when I'm fighting the dummies I don't get rage starved. Just remember to pop your rage generating cooldowns whenever you need rage and they are off cooldown.

HS's is only viable when you have 70+ rage as you know, but as I recall, HS doesn't generate rage as it replaces a white attack, so you "loose" rage regen with that. Which means, you shouldn't spam HS when you hit 70 rage, but just hit it when you see you are over 70. :)

Destruyen
10-03-2009, 08:06 AM
i have no problem with rage using hs at 50 rage and not using any rage gen cd's like imp. serk rage (dont spec it) or bloodrage. it really depends on your gear (alot of crit to get basically 2 rage hs's through the hs glyph) and the rest of your rotation.

Äggro
10-03-2009, 11:51 AM
One thing I noticed about your gear set up is. You have an Agi neck = Very bad. + both of your weapon are going off at the same time. this means if you use Heroic strike you get NO rage. NONE cause you wasted both swings, if you have a 3.5 and a 3.6, Your HS will get used, then you will have a melee swing. My rotation is WW + BT + slam proc (HS spam - I never stop using it). I use my Berserk enrage and my other rage CD when I need rage.

I used to have 2 edge of ruins, and Id go Rage starved so fast, now I have world carver and Edge of ruin, and never rage starved..

I would look into that if I where you.

Also your not expertise cap... Get it lol.

Rak
10-03-2009, 12:04 PM
One thing I noticed about your gear set up is. You have an Agi neck = Very bad. + both of your weapon are going off at the same time. this means if you use Heroic strike you get NO rage. NONE cause you wasted both swings, if you have a 3.5 and a 3.6, Your HS will get used, then you will have a melee swing. My rotation is WW + BT + slam proc (HS spam - I never stop using it). I use my Berserk enrage and my other rage CD when I need rage.

I used to have 2 edge of ruins, and Id go Rage starved so fast, now I have world carver and Edge of ruin, and never rage starved..

I would look into that if I where you.

Also your not expertise cap... Get it lol.

The agility neck is excellent and judging by his other gear, the best one available to him. Agility is not a bad stat depending on your character and currently agility necks are BiS for fury. Saying if you have two of the same speed weapons and HS you will get no rage is false, and I'm sure most warriors can tell you this since it's pretty common to use same speed weapons (once again, two 3.6 speed weapons are BiS). 25 expertise is fine. Expertise SEP drops once you hit 25, so it isn't worth gemming for that extra 4 rating that is missing.

@OP: raid buffs and debuffs may play a big factor. Rage generation will scale with your raid's set up. You should make sure you have everything possible available to you in a raid setting.

kemikalkadet
10-03-2009, 12:07 PM
One thing I noticed about your gear set up is. You have an Agi neck = Very bad. + both of your weapon are going off at the same time. this means if you use Heroic strike you get NO rage. NONE cause you wasted both swings, if you have a 3.5 and a 3.6, Your HS will get used, then you will have a melee swing. My rotation is WW + BT + slam proc (HS spam - I never stop using it). I use my Berserk enrage and my other rage CD when I need rage.

I used to have 2 edge of ruins, and Id go Rage starved so fast, now I have world carver and Edge of ruin, and never rage starved..

I would look into that if I where you.

Also your not expertise cap... Get it lol.

Erm what? There's nothing wrong with having agility on a neck slot, not sure what your logic is behind that statement, infact the top 4 or so BiS necks or fury have agility on them. And where did you get the idea that i both weapons swing at the same speed HS will consume both weapon swings? HS always consumes the mainhand swing and has no effect on the off-hand swing, if it is doing that then it's a bug and you should report it. As for expertise, being 1 point under the cap it's often not worth gemming/enchanting or whatever to get it up to 26. The 0.25% chance to be dodged is so marginal and gemming or enchanting to cap will bring you over the dodge cap of 26, anything over 26 is 100% wasted so long as you're behind the mob.

Solasun
10-03-2009, 12:25 PM
Agility is generally a standard stat on necklaces - and it's not bad at all. Sure it doesn't bring everything that strength does but it does benefit crit. Dismissing agility - when more than a few Fury Warriors uses the agility meta - is rather narrowminded about the playstyle.

That said - if you find your weapon synch to be an issue try the following macros to replace your regular skills

Macro 1
/startattack
/cast Bloodthirst

Macro 2
/stopattack
/cast Heroic Throw

And it should desynch your swings.

Äggro
10-03-2009, 12:25 PM
Hmm - then why do you need to use HS at +70 rage?? Other people on my server spam it and never get rage starved.. And Agility only contributes to Crit (I was told) so if im wrong im sorry. But I went from 2 edge of ruins and had to use HS at +70 rage, now I have 2 offspeed weapons, and I dont go rage starved. Just speaking of experiance. If Im wrong, yet again. im sorry.

But I didn't know the 1 weapons was BiS im horde, I had know idea wtf it I thought it was some shitty weapon.
But I now see its like Duel-bladed-butcher

Destruyen
10-03-2009, 12:39 PM
You have an Agi neck = Very bad. + both of your weapon are going off at the same time.

agility necks are usually bis for both fury and arms, agi isnt a bad stat just dont gem for it. most of them have crit, ap, and arp on them which are great for both specs, while str necks only have 2 stats and most of the time hit is one of them. having synced weapons (same swing speed) doesnt make a difference as long as you know how to manage your rage. rage comes in bigger chunks but not as often as having off-speed weapons that makes rage comes in smaller chunks but more often. i actually prefer synced weapons since when i hs with my main hand, my offhand swings at the same time to give me rage back.

one of my questions on your gear though,is why did you put a purple gem in your ring to give you a +4 haste bonus?


But I didn't know the 2 weapons where BiS im horde
justicebringer = dual blade butcher (heroic version is bis, regular is not far off)
aesir's edge = aesir's edge (xt 10m hardmode)

kemikalkadet
10-03-2009, 12:41 PM
Hmm - then why do you need to use HS at +70 rage??

You only heroic strike above 60 rage as that guarantee's that you'll be able to hit BT and WW the split second they come off cooldown and wont have to wait for rage: 20 rage for bt + 25 for WW + 12 for a non-crit imp. specced heroic strike = 57 rage cost. if you get unlucky with off-hand misses and generate 0 rge you'll at least have enough to keep ww nd bt on cooldown.

Äggro
10-03-2009, 12:48 PM
I know about asiers edge dude, thats why I edited it lol

squats
10-03-2009, 01:06 PM
I know about asiers edge dude, thats why I edited it lol

Your main hand will always use "yellow" attacks, that is
Slam
WW
BT
HS

your off hand always swings at its independent swing timer and never uses a yellow attack.

@OP- Make sure your not missing your Slam procs, its a big issue with fury warriors, and it is possible to hit everyone one that procs unless your lucky enough to say.. proc it from HS, do BT, WW, and it procs from WW also.

other then that. practice on the dummy and find out when is the right time for you to use HS, its different for everyone because RNG doesn't favor some of us.

Rak
10-03-2009, 03:43 PM
Hmm - then why do you need to use HS at +70 rage?? Other people on my server spam it and never get rage starved..
I don't. I never stop HSing because I always have enough rage with two weapons of the same speed. But my gear is not the same as everyone's. Warrior gear varies wildly and seemingly small changes can have a large impact since so many factors interact to create your output.

Regardless, what other people on your server do or say really doesn't make something fact, so it would be nice if you could stop misleading people.

Destruyen
10-03-2009, 03:51 PM
ww uses a yellow offhand attack

Kneez
10-04-2009, 03:54 AM
one of my questions on your gear though,is why did you put a purple gem in your ring to give you a +4 haste bonus?


to activate my meta gem, was it an unwise decision? or you just nitpicking :P

kemikalkadet
10-04-2009, 04:11 AM
Your main hand will always use "yellow" attacks, that is
Slam
WW
BT
HS

your off hand always swings at its independent swing timer and never uses a yellow attack.



Not sure what you mean by that. All yellow attacks apart from heroic strike are cast independantly of your white swings, as in, they don't consume a white swing to cast them. Slam is slightly different in that it suspends your mainhnd and offhand swings while you cast them but it doesn't consume them. Whirlwind and bloodthirst however have no effect at all on your white swings, they don't affect the swing timer in any way and will be cast as soon as you press the button. And if you meant the main hand using the yellow attack as in the damage is based on MH.. this isn't entirely true either. Bloodthirst scales wholely with attack power and its damage is in no way related to weapon damge from either hand. Whirlwind damage is based on the weapon damage of both hands not just mainhand.


your off hand always swings at its independent swing timer and never uses a yellow attack.



The mainhand does too. The only two scenarios where your mainhand wont hit with a white attack while fighting is when you queue a heroic strike, which doesn't affect the actual timing of the swing at all, you'll hit with heroic strike when you would have hit with a white swing. The other is a casted slam which pauses the swing timer of both hands, it'll affect both your mainhand and off-hand although since we're talking about fury you shouldn't be using casted slams anyway.

Sorry for the derail, but theres a lot of misinformation here.



Edit:

to activate my meta gem, was it an unwise decision? or you just nitpicking :P
If you use a purple in your helm instead of your ring you'll get a +8 str socket bonus. This is far far more useful than +4 haste.