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Reev
10-01-2009, 07:06 AM
Hello all,

I'm getting a little frustrated with Anub'Arak 25 Normal. Our heals and tanks seem to be able to keep everyone alive pretty well, but our dps just hasn't seemed able to keep up.

Some background:
We are a guild who has cleared up to, but not defeated 10 man Yogg, and cleared everything up to Thorim and Mimiron in Uld 25, on whom we consistently wipe. I think we're close to killing Thorim, but we've had some issues with him despawning when he jumps into the arena.

On Anub'Arak, we've tried several strategies, including killing 2/4 adds, then returning to dps the boss, killing 1/4 adds, then returning to dps the boss, using only ranged to dps the adds, while melee stay on the boss, etc. No matter what we choose to do, however, the boss hits the enrage timer right around the time we hit phase 3, and we wipe.

I'm wondering if anyone could give me any advice, perhaps things they've done in their own guild to improve dps and get the other players to push their game to the next level. Advice on Anub'Arak is great, but some ideas in general would be even better.

It seems like most of our dps are around 3700 dps, with a few people up in the 5-7k range.

Brummer
10-01-2009, 07:44 AM
We run melee/Hunter heavy.

This last normal kill, no one switched to adds at all.
2 fury warriors, 2 ret pallies, 3 hunters, 1 rogue, 1 blood dk = a lot of cleave damage

Since the beginning of ToC, I bitch a lot when the adds are not dragged on top of the boss for a good reason. If you aren't doing this you should start.
On all the adds fights, NB/LJ/Anub(possible twins depending how smrt your dps is) you should be tanking the adds close to the boss for maximum cleave damage.

This last normal anub 25 kill the first wave of adds died from just splash damage alone. Then the second wave, we don't attack until he goes under, but we continue to cleave them the whole time.

This strat only works with a cleave heavy setup. As you don't want 4 adds up.

Our Anub tank always moves Anub close to the Frozen ground. And the add tank brings the two adds to that same patch.

Classes with longer wind-up times shouldn't switch off anub at all. Spriest, ret pallies. Affliction lock?

Ensure you have an MS on the boss before 30% as those first couple of ticks of leeching swarm heal him for a lot. Also ensure your MS on anub never switches off for adds sub 30%. And watch the hp of the raid sub 30%, too high means your healers are working against your dps and are healing him too much. Generally speaking everyone should be below 30% but the MT. Your offtank should be clicking Beacon of Light off after his adds die.

We run 2 tanks, ~5-6heals.


Hope that helps some, GL.

Reev
10-01-2009, 01:22 PM
We normally run 3 tanks, 6 heals. Can 1 offtank handle 4 burrowers at once?

Brummer
10-01-2009, 01:42 PM
I'm getting a little frustrated with Anub'Arak 25 Normal.

They spawn a wave of 2 at a time on 25 man normal and 10 man heroic. 1 tank holding 4 mobs would be bad, the first wave should be dead before the second wave spawns.

I off tanked 10 man heroic mode the other night, picking up both mobs. It wasn't easy but very do able. Would be easier for DK/pally tank. We didn't get the kill but that wasn't my fault, low dps as well. But we had a poor raid composition.

More details about your strat would be very helpful.

Reev
10-01-2009, 01:53 PM
Well one of the problems is that we've changed it up to try new things a few too many times, but the main strat we've tried is to have our Druid tank Anub close to where he's standing at the start. We have 1 range raid member take out the blue globes, and I throw sunders up on the boss while waiting for the burrowers to spawn. When they spawn, I pick up one, and the pally tank picks up the other.

We've variously tried tanking them far apart (on top of the permafrost of course) or close together, or even next to the boss. Generally we've tried having all our ranged (we're about 50% ranged, 50% melee right now) kill the 2 burrowers before returning to the boss. Often, before the second burrower is even half dead, the 2 new burrowers come out, so one tank will have 1 burrower and the other will have 2 at the beginning of phase 2.

When we've had just the ranged on the 2 mobs, they don't seem to die fast enough. When we put melee and ranged on the burrowers, Anub'Arak doesn't die quickly enough. We've tried killing only 1 burrower and leaving all the others up to get more dps time on the boss. We can do that and be fine in Phase 2, but again, we still don't have enough dps on the boss, and he enrages with ~30% hit points left.

I'm not only asking this from an Anub'Arak perspective, but also looking for help from anyone who has struggled with needing to bring up the total dps of his/her guildmates and might have some good tips/tricks/perspectives on it. Advice for the specific fight is helpful too.

Brummer
10-01-2009, 02:14 PM
Tough one. I have been guilds like this before, its not easy. Actually I have had some irl friends with similar problems. We went to forums and guides and read what they are suppose to be doing for rotations, glyths, specs, easy upgrades etc. And that helped most of them out.
My father actually plays, his alt hunter was doing 1200 dps in 5 mans, now he does 3.5k in 5 mans. He was doing basically everything wrong. Casual player, etc.

Most people when approached about their preformance get very defensive, it takes some tack and the right person to approach them without losing them from raiding or destroying your guild.
I would guess you have a lot of people doing things wrong if their dps is around 3700 on multiple mob fights.

Patience and working with them on an individual basis, or replacing them......
These questions or solutions become very hard and very personally.

As far as Anub goes, I would recommend Tanking the adds on the boss and the boss on/near frost. Using 1 offtank can help but your dps should be easily able to make up for using an extra tank.
There really is no excuse for the adds being alive when the next wave spawns if people are switching to them. Your strat is correct, sounds like people just need to play better.

Good Luck, thats a bigger problem then I can solve, sorry.

Griff
10-01-2009, 02:22 PM
Also, make sure that your people are properly flasked and fooded - these bonuses, while individually rather small, can aggregate into a pretty significant bump in overall dps.

Also, take a look at your raid comp and make sure that you're getting as many of the available buffs as you can.

Speed/wild magic pots during heroism can provide a nice extra kick in the pants as well.

A lot of successful dps is about being efficient. Try having your ranged folks set up macros for target switching to things like adds/orbs/anub.

Use a combatlog parse tool like Wowmeteronline or something similar and try to identify places where people can improve their play.

Phathead 009
10-01-2009, 02:55 PM
I definitely would not have 1 tank hold all 4 adds, because I believe they get a stacking buff that increases their damage by a percentage for each add that is up. Any more than 2 adds in my experience and the tank starts taking hits too big to heal through.

Also , are you sure your healer's aren't overdoing during phase 3. The raid I was with (pug) that cleared Anub 25 took a few tries to do it, and it wasn't until after the 2nd wipe that we realized that the druid healers were overdoing it on the hots and using tranquility. We had great DPS, but no amount of DPS is going to push through leeching swarm if your healers are giving Anubarak free health.

Reev
10-01-2009, 03:01 PM
We're only getting about 5-10 seconds into Phase 3 before he enrages, so it's not that. I think maybe we need to be doing more AoE. We've been single targeting down the adds, which is why I've been thinking 3700-7000 dps wasn't too bad, but it's sounding from y'all like there should be more AoE flying around?

Reev
10-01-2009, 03:16 PM
OK, the only WoWMeterOnline report I have is from a raid I wasn't in, and it's piss poor, or I'd share it. A lot of the dps on that report are doing in the 2k range. I think it must have something to do with the switching around on targets so much, since usually they do so much better. Obviously we never would have gotten past the Twins with such cruddy dps... :(

Griff
10-01-2009, 03:40 PM
The game itself isn't very complex - your people may not be carrying their fair share of the dps water, but in many cases, its likely something that you can troubleshoot to help them improve.

Gear choices, gemming and enchants can come into play as well as ensuring your dps team are using the correct rotations.