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View Full Version : Calling out All Deathknight tanks for help



AbbyGale
10-01-2009, 12:35 AM
I'v been having problems on my death knight getting threat and holding it . i feel that its my gear or my spec i really use some help .my charter profile is listed below please lend a hand let me know what i can do to better my skills and charter

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Lethon&n=Tankgirls)


1.Enchants.
What enchants would best fit to tank with a death knight

2.Gems
What Gems would best fit to tank with a death knight

3.Weapons
What 2 hand weapon would best fit to tank with my death knight

4.Spec
What Spec would best fit to tank toc . ulduar , naxx , and so forth

5. Rotation
What rotation would best fit to tank

6.Glyphs
What Glyphs would best fit for tanking

7. Hit Cap
What is the hit cap for tanking as a death knight

zaubade
10-01-2009, 12:52 AM
first of all this belongs in the halp section... second of all... erm all of this is already answered on this very web site

KnThrak
10-01-2009, 06:45 AM
What zaubade said, but I want to highlight this point:


What Spec would best fit to tank toc . ulduar , naxx , and so forth

Independant of any other consideration, if your lacks are constantly~always missing 10% AP (Blood), 20% Meleehaste (Frost) or 13% spelldamagedebuff (Unholy), you found your "best spec" already. The synergy gained will easily outplay any other difference between the trees.

skinard
10-01-2009, 07:16 AM
1= SSG
2= hit/sta exp/stam till u get 263 hit and 26 exp then u can do dodge/stam
3= the one u are useing is fine because u need the hit. if u can get more hit the edge or rune from h 5 man toc is nice, and moorostrike is nice for the dodge.
4= i haven’t tanked with frost spec but it looks more attractive for 5 mans because of HB. 5 mans tends to have bigger pulls for how many tanks are there. i really like blood for harder hitting instances because of the survivability you get from all the self healing.
5= no idea i haven’t tanked with frost but if its a bigger you can HB BB DS DS BB BB
6= i am not sure about your glyphs you are using but i like glyph of rune strike
7= 8% which i think is 263 hit ratting


i haven’t been tanking on my DK for very long but this is what works for me

lyd
10-01-2009, 07:49 AM
your gear is fine. I would suggest losing morbidity and unholy command and spec 5/5 bladed armor. that change alone would do alot to help your threat problems.

to explain a little further: you are losing half the benefit of morbidity as frost because you use frost strike instead of death coil. and with Howling Blast (particularly glyph'd howling blast) you have enough snap aoe aggro to not require the shorter cooldown on death and decay. DnD should be used to set up initial aggro on a group of targets. after that, you should be using howling blast exclusively.

You should also keep in mind how you benefit from your glyphs. are resisted taunts a problem for you? consider that you have 3 long-range damaging abilities to snap aggro on a mob: Icy Touch, Howling Blast, and if need be, death coil. you also have 2 taunts in case the first one is resisted. unless you're in ToC 10/25 heroic, I have trouble seeing the need for glyph of dark command, especially when your biggest problem appears to be sustained threat, not resisted taunts.

Frost LOVES obliterate, and if threat is a problem, you might consider replacing your glyph of dark command with the Obliterate glyph.

I run a DW frost set-up, and here's my single target rotation cycle:

IT = icy touch
PS = plague strike
BS = blood strike
OB = obliterate
FS = frost strike
PE = pestilence (glyph'd)

first rotation:

IT PS BS BS OB (FS dump)

ideally, this is my second rotation, which I lock into:

OB OB PE BS (FS dump)

on aoe packs, i lead with a DnD if I've got set-up time, and follow with IT PS PE. I then rotate Howling blast, Blood boil, pestilence, and obliterates (for rime procs).

I use glyph of disease and incorporate pestilence into my rotation to refresh diseases instead of re-casting icy touch and plague strike. this frees up GCD's for free howling blasts and FS spam, and reserves Killing Blow procs for Frost Strike and Howling Blast. my FS spam is also propped up by DW scent of blood and Glyph'd frost strike. this rotation wouldn't work for you though, because you're using sigil of the unfaltering knight, and you can't stay locked in the second rotation or else your defense proc would drop. so your cycle would probably start with the first rotation, and since you have 2/2 epidemic, you could probably just fit in 3 OB's in your second rotation, then go back to the first, with Frost Strikes everywhere inbetween, when possible.

I think the Bladed armor change will help you tons though. I used to have threat problems as frost before picking up bladed armor, and I haven't really had problems since.

Kazeyonoma
10-01-2009, 09:13 AM
first of all this belongs in the halp section... second of all... erm all of this is already answered on this very web site

Bingo.

Moved.

Theotherone
10-01-2009, 09:37 AM
I agree with the posts that it appears your issue might be resolved with a few tweaks to your talent tree and your glyphs.

I would remove the points from Unholy Command and Epidemic - you really don't need the shorter DG cooldown once you starting holding threat and since we use Howling Blast so much, Frost Fever is almost always up. Icy Reach is not really necessary, we're tanks we get up close and personal with the mobs. Hungering Cold is really a PvP talent, we use Howling Blast or Icy Touch to spread disease and bosses are immune to Hungering Cold. Runic Power Mastery is not too useful, we should be dumping Runic Power on a regular basis.

So now we have 9 points to play with. I would keep Morbidity, I like it and I glyph for DnD, nothing solves and aggro issue like DnD. That said, I understand the arguments against Morbidity and don't really disagree, but I have my comfort zone with pulls and liberal use of DnD is part of it.

Max out Bladed Armor, will help with threat a great deal.

Put 2 points into Merciless Combat, extra damage to help end a fight is always a good thing.

Now you have a choice, you can put 2 points into Chill of the Grave for runic power generation or remove the point from Deathchill and put three points into Scent of Blood. I like Deathchill so I go the Chill of the Grave route, but the Scent of Blood route is well accepted.

For glyphs, I'd change Dark Command for DnD (but like I said, I rely on DnD). For your minors I suggest Horn of Winter, Glyph of the Ghoul (who wants to carry corpse dust around and Pestillence (extra reach for you diseases).

I've found that Blood Boil is a great way to hold, get aggro. Spread your diseases around and detonate them - works wonders.

As for your hit - carry along some Snapper Extreme 40 buff to stamina and 40 to hit. With that you're at 266 i.e. hit capped plus one.

You going to want to put an Eternal Belt Buckle on your waist. If you were so inclined you could put a +20 Hit (Rigid Kings Amber) in the prismatic socket, and hit cap yourself that way.

Anyway, hope this helps.

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Alexstrasza&n=Theotherone)

Fathom
10-01-2009, 10:19 AM
1.Enchants.
What enchants would best fit to tank with a death knight

Mostly straightforward:
Weapon: SSG or Swordshattering (if you can't hit 540 def with gear, or very close, go SSG, if you can I personally think Swordshattering has a slight edge)
Bracers: Stam
Chest: Stats or Defense (dk's tend to fight the def cap unless you're dw'ing tanking 1hs, so generally def)
Cloak: Titanweave
Gloves: Armsman
Boots: Tuskarr's Vitality (7 less stam that Greater Fortitude, but you can't make up the runspeed as easily as you can get 7 stam elsewhere, with the obvious exception being unholy tanks)
Head/Shoulders/Legs: All have one obvious tanking/stam enchant



2.Gems
What Gems would best fit to tank with a death knight The short answer is stamina in everything and an austere earthsiege.

The slightly longer answer is just enough def to push crits off the table, stam for everything else except for the one purple dodge/stam or parry/stam to activate the austere earthsiege, and other colors if a socket bonus provides a significant amount of stamina (i.e. probably 7+)



3.Weapons
What 2 hand weapon would best fit to tank with my death knight
2h DK tanks should be looking for stam and threat stats on their 2h. Prioritize high stam, and some combination of Str/Agi/Expertise/Crit/Hit. Haste is a threat boost but not a great one. Sockets are also a plus as they allow more stam to be socketed.

Inevitable Defeat, Worldcarver, Obsidian Edged Blade, etc. are the kinds of weapons you should be looking for.



4.Spec
What Spec would best fit to tank toc . ulduar , naxx , and so forthNo tank spec is 'best' for whole ranges of instances. They all have different flavors to how they play, so your comfort with a spec's particular style is going to be the driving factor for how effective it is, that said:

Blood - Tends to run with larger health pools and mitigate through self healing. This gives it a slight effective health advantage that makes it popular for progression tanking because it gives healers/tanks who are pushing the limits of their gear some breathing room. Slightly clunkier AoE mechanics that mean Blood tanks work a bit more to control groups.

Frost - Similar to blood, but mitigation/effective health through better avoidance/damage reduction than the bigger health pool. Probably the most flexible/warrior-like spec with strong single target and aoe threat, will provide good if not excellent performance on just about everything. Aoe threat relies on short cd's though, so add spawns can sometimes pop in the 3-5 second gaps between reapplications of Pest/HB.

Frost DW - Subset of Frost, drops some threat/raid utility to pick up more straight tank stats on the weapons, probably the most avoidance of any of the specs.

Unholy - Less EH/mitigation than the others as a base, but Bone Shield's non-standard duration mechanic can give it nice advantages on some bosses. Most consistent AoE threat, which means some fights (like Arena Tanking on Thorim) are much more trivial than for the other specs. Somewhat Pally-like in threat mechanics. Can provide slightly more unique raid utility (with AMZ/Ebon Plaguebringer) than the other specs.


5. Rotation
What rotation would best fit to tank

Due to the lack of threat added attacks, single target threat rotations work exactly like single target dps rotations for that spec, with the exception that spamming rune strike generally means the RP dump section of the rotation is lighter.

Almost always, the silver bullet for fixing your single target threat is to rune strike more, it's pretty much mandatory either to macro it to everything you touch while tanking, or bind it to a key you can hammer spastically throughout the fight. The difference between RS every time is available and you have RP and not is almost always measured in thousands of TPS.

AoE rotations follow similar Disease->Runes->RP dump logic, except a) you'll need to devote a blood rune to pestilence to spread diseases, and you replace standard rune/RP abilities with the aoe you have available (i.e. swapping BB for BS on large packs, swapping HB for Oblit for frost, etc.). Unholy, and Blood may want to D&D on CD, Frost is usually better off saving it for picking up badly clustered mobs, as HB is generally a more effective source of AoE threat.



6.Glyphs
What Glyphs would best fit for tanking
Minors: Pestilence, Raise Dead, HoW, which are the only worthwhile minors for every DK spec for just about every role.
Frost: IT/Ob/RS and FS, pick two of the first 3 and FS.
Blood: Vamp Blood, Disease, and DS/RS
Unholy: Bone Shield, Unholy Blight, and either RS/Dark Death/SS/D&D (sorry, I'm less versed with Unholy tanking glyphs)


7. Hit Cap
What is the hit cap for tanking as a death knightStrikes: 8%
Spells (IT, Pest, BB, HB, DC, D&D): 16%
DW white hits: 24%

Don't go crazy trying to hit any of them. Getting 8% is pretty useful, but I still wouldn't gem hit over stam for them (unless, as said above, a hit/stam gem would pick up a stamina bonus)

Specific comments on improving your threat with your current 2h frost spec:
Ditch Unholy Command, Morbidity, RPM, Hungering Cold, Deathchill, and Icy Reach, as they're all crappy talents for Frost Tanks, Epidemic may also need to go on the chopping block. Get Bladed Armor at minimum, probably Chill of the Grave as well. Then decide if you want Imp Icy Talons or not. If you do, pick up those 6 points, if not get things like Merciless Combat, Epidemic, Subversion (now that they've de-sucked it, Scent of Blood may also be useful, though probably as a replacement for Chill of the Grave, as both are probably not necessary).

For single target: IT>PS>BS and Oblit til you run our of runes>FS if you have leftover RP after RSs>Ob until you need to refresh diseases etc.

For most aoe packs a lazy IT>PS>Pest>HB>BB rotation is enough to hold over most standard aoe. For a bit more effort you can tab target FSs around the group. If it's a badly grouped pull or a pull that comes bits at a time (e.g. phase 2 whelps on Ony), drop D&D to pick up initial aggro, then roll into IT>PS>Pest and continue as normal.