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Hayledge
09-29-2009, 03:28 AM
So, I'm in a ten man guild and we recently started doing hard modes. Tonight we did Iron Council, Hodir and Thorim. I'm our main tank so I get to do those fun fights like Hodir. Well, obviously threat is a huge part of that fight and I'm looking to maximize it. I changed up my threat spec a little bit after the raid tonight to get deep wounds. The thing is... I dropped focused rage for that. It's kind of scaring me already.

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Hellscream&n=Apochalypse&group=2)

During our Hodir attempts I had a few rage issues here and there due to mashing the heroic strike button. I just didn't let up on it enough in this situation. On our kill attempt I actually took less damage than our hunter as shown here: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis (http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ldxI3M9vWyo4UAmm/sum/damageTaken/?s=11066&e=11221) Granted, it looks like it didn't pick up frozen blows against me *shrug*
So with rage being so limited, I'm really looking to maximize threat. The thing is... I don't know if that's the way to go there. I obviously want to maximize survivability at the same time.. This is my more commonly used spec so I'm trying not to make it for only this fight or only for the very very high demanding threat fights but something I can continue to use overall.

I was hoping I could get some suggestions on what to change around talent wise or if I should keep it the same. I've seen some debate on where to go in a threat spec and it seems more to be based on the player, their gear and what they'll be doing so I figure the more input the better.

Oh, yes.. I know I'm quite low on expertise and a little low on hit. Drops have not been very kind to me and I'm hoping for the Twin Valk boots (tomorrow would be nice for those! too bad I have to wear FrR boots for Hodir) and I will be getting the 245 tank helmet this week for a rather nice boost.

Pruke
09-29-2009, 04:32 AM
The spec looks fine to me so I don't think you need to change it or the glyphs. I would suggest swapping out some of your gems with expertise/stam, I wouldn't go overboard but I would rather see it closer to 26 then it is now.

You can use old world rage pot right before the pull for rage, charge and just be smart about when to HS. Use SB/SS on the opener and if you feel your threats taking you a moment to get going tell the raid in vent to give you a couple of moments.

Something else would be if you have someone like a rogue or hunter in the raid have them ToT or MD on CD. If a 2nd warrior is present have them put up sunder for you at the start while you build threat. If you have a DK then you know TC is a waste and a ret paladin with demo then that is a waste so don't blow gcd's on those (unless it's multiple targets you are tanking)

Use expertise food since it will give you 4 expertise or if hit food if you would rather, just don't rely on the fish feasts.

Thats about all I can come up with at this time of the morning, good luck.

Daishan12
09-29-2009, 05:11 AM
A small change that could help with this fight if you're confident in your healers is changing glyph of shield wall for glyph of revenge. The free HS after every revenge will reduce the amount of rage burned through HSing. The SW glyph is nice to help the healers out with the frozen blows, but if you have a bit of frost ress gear and trust your healers, it could just be enough to keep your rage up!

Possibly swap out one of your trinkets as well, the survivability of your gear looks more than enough to cope with 10 man Ulduar! Drop one of the 2 trinkets fro some AP or expertise (maybe crit?).

A final couple of tips I picked up here were to intervene whoever was 2nd on threat when there is a flash freeze to give yourself some breathing space.

The spec on a whole looks pretty good. Focus rage instead of shield wall might help out if your'e having rage problems. Also deep wounds is good dps but not necessarily the best tps. Maybe drop points in there for cruelty or focused rage.

Griff
09-29-2009, 10:51 AM
A few things about Hodir.

1. Take advantage of the buffs you can - those haste buffs and crit buffs aren't just for melee and while you shouldn't be a priority for the crit buff, it helps alot when you get it and consider some crit buff food for this fight.

2. Planned aggro pulls are your friend. When ranged dps gets their full set of encounter buffs rolling, the can produce ginormous threat and this can be used to your advantage. If they are standing at maximum range, have them unload on hodir and pull aggro off of you. Hodir will run over to say hello to them and before he gets there, you throw a taunt on him and they pop threat reduction (shatter, hand of salv, etc) - now you've set your aggro above them, giving you a substantial lead. You need to coordinate with the dps so they give you a warning and you need to be quick with the taunt but if you can execute this, you will have zero aggro issues going forward.

3. As a previous poster said, change up your trinkets. The expertise trinket is pretty good, crit trinkets are good if you get the buff or the +90 strength DMC: Greatness card.

Hayledge
09-29-2009, 12:26 PM
Thank you for all the great answers everyone.
The helmet will put me up around 20 expertise and I forgot that I picked up Fervor of the Protectorate again for a threat set due to the extra expertise on that. I've been using expertise food almost constantly as of late as well. After raiding last night I went and farmed up enough mats to make another 3-4 stacks of it.

A big thing for Hodir is that my FrR gear is completely different from this stuff. I need to swap the gems a bit (haven't really changed them since I made it for Naxx back in 3.0) but I'm waiting to get that helm later this week to determine how much expertise I need to at least reach the soft cap.

*sigh* I had one major hiccup on Hodir last night when about 10-15 seconds in our elemental shaman started pulling 7k+ and didn't realize it. Needless to say I did NOT have any threat room built up yet.

One thing we did find and used on our successful attempt was having the first crit buffed raid member come up to me and the melee. It seemed much safer to put vigilance a melee (as they more often pulled higher numbers) so not only did it make sure that the I had vigilance on the right person at the beginning, but it gave me the buff as well. We got kind of lucky after that as our rogue was buffed next and he slid around closer to me, and then I was next to receive the buff as well.

I need to have a chat with our ret paladin to have him actually spec into the AP reduction talent as well.

I completely forgot about Intervene lowering someones aggro. One of those things that just slips by so I'll have to make sure to remember that :)

I'm hoping that I can get one of the expertise trinkets from 10 man ToC soon. We've only had one drop thus far and I'm obviously not going to take it for one fight over someone that could actually use it. I'll most certainly be switching one trinket out for a dps one though. On Hodir I've been using the 10 man Thaddius trinket to easily reach the defense minimum (and will be switching that to the Onyxia reward trinket as soon as I get the head. Our off tank got it the first week).

The shield wall glyph changing to the revenge one is a good idea as well. Speaking of which, I need to change my fun spec into a more progression oriented one it looks like.

Thank you very much for all the tips and pointers. It should all add up to make quite a difference and maybe I'll actually blink and take more than 3-4 breathes next time we do Hodir :P

Freehaven666
10-02-2009, 11:07 PM
A few things about Hodir.

1. Take advantage of the buffs you can - those haste buffs and crit buffs aren't just for melee and while you shouldn't be a priority for the crit buff, it helps alot when you get it and consider some crit buff food for this fight.

2. Planned aggro pulls are your friend. When ranged dps gets their full set of encounter buffs rolling, the can produce ginormous threat and this can be used to your advantage. If they are standing at maximum range, have them unload on hodir and pull aggro off of you. Hodir will run over to say hello to them and before he gets there, you throw a taunt on him and they pop threat reduction (shatter, hand of salv, etc) - now you've set your aggro above them, giving you a substantial lead. You need to coordinate with the dps so they give you a warning and you need to be quick with the taunt but if you can execute this, you will have zero aggro issues going forward.

3. As a previous poster said, change up your trinkets. The expertise trinket is pretty good, crit trinkets are good if you get the buff or the +90 strength DMC: Greatness card.
How is that parsibol to get str out of DMC: Greatness card wen you are a tank and your highest stat is stam??

luv2tank
10-03-2009, 01:04 AM
i have had your same issues and then some. While i have not attempted this on 25, our 10mans is made up of over geared mages pumping out 13k dps or less on this fight(insanity basically for threat). I mean they crit for 70k sometimes so it is really hard to keep agro. A few things i do, for one, vigilance the top dps. Sometimes during the fight you may need to swap this in the heat of the battle just to get any edge you can incase someone has a stormcloud + light + BL/heroism. Other than that i honestly do my main rotation and not worry to much about hs spamming. The main factors here are my mage players are really good. They spec into threat reduction just for the fight, also they use their clones and invisy whenever they can if they are starting to get close. My hunter in the group stacks the fire buffs at all times and free's the mage and md's to me whenever it is up. I bring a rogue in as well for this fight just for tricks to help give me a nice buffer. Honestly, threat in this fight is really hard to keep when ppl are putting out numbers like my group. We one heal this fight as well, so maybe if you have a rad healer and some ranged give it a whirl, hopefully they down the boss prior to them pulling aggro. good luck.