View Full Version : Help with Increasing DW frost DPS output.
09-28-2009, 01:09 AM
Alright here's the deal. I'm trying to gear my self up for future raiding. The thing is I'm not exactly geared badly but it's not the best in the world. I've got a fairly strong rotation. and as hard as I try I can barely push 2k to 2.5k in heroics. Not sure how the heck I did it but I pulled 4k on Patchwerk 10 the other day. I'm wondering out side of Daily heroic grinding bidding my time til I get Low Rent T-9 gear how I can boost my dps output to a level where I can be useful in Raids such as ToC and Ulduar 10s or even 25s.
as it stands my standard rotation is as fallows. Please bear with me but if you're a dk hopefully you're gonna understand my abbreviations.
part 1: IT-PS-OBLIT-BS-BS-- FS spam (runic Dump)
Part 2: HoW-OBLIT-OBLIT-OBLIT- FS spam (runic Dump)
Wash... Rinse... Repeat...
Some times depending on if I'm facing a boss I'll pop my ghoul before I use HoW in the second part of my rotation.
I will link my armory Pre T-9 shoulders before I am through to see if maybe it's a gem or gear issue. Could even be an enchant screw up on my part.
Keep in mind I am NOT exalted with the Sons of Hodir but I am working on it as hard as I can. And before we get to the simple why not just have stuff crafted...
A: I'm broke. I have less than a thousand gold between all of my toons.
B: I'm saving up emblems for Gear upgrades rather than spending them on Runed and Crusaders orbs. (granted saving for them is something I plan on doing in the near future.)
Long story short I've been busting my butt to ready my self for end game content. Naxx,OS and EoE raids are something just just doesn't happen on my server.. Unless it's extremely late night which I just can't do. I Run H ToC (5) every day and farm the normal ToC (5). I'm struggling and I just don't know what to do. So frustrated and broken in spirit I come to you all my last bastions of Hope. (over dramatic I know but it's kinda the bottom line.)
Any who here is my Armory. Please help me with this. Be it spec or anything I'm willing to bend over backwards to pull the 3 to 4k dps I see other players doing in my groups.
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Ghostlands&n=%C3%90anzig)
Hey... I took a look at your armory and was wondering on a few things...
Are you tanking or DPSing? the reason why i'm asking is because you specced Hungering Cold which has more uses in PvP in my opinion... you also specced into Improved Frost Presence which is mainly used for tanking... if they're just fillers then I would recommend some points into Icy Talons to help the tank instead... or better yet, put those points into Bladed Armor for the extra AP your armor will contribute to...
I would also change your rotation by abit to
- IT, PS, BSx2, OB... RP dump (single target)
- IT, PS, Pest, BB, HB... RP dump (groups)
the BSx2 before OB is to convert your Blood Runes to Death Runes and allow them some time to come off CD while you use OB and dump your runes...
for the second rotation... if it's on a single mob then go with OB instead of HB for the runes unless you've procced KM...
also, are you DPSing in unholy or blood presence?
I found that I'm pushing more DPS in unholy presence with two slow weapons
just my 2cents... hope this helps...
09-28-2009, 09:12 AM
Dont use HB unless rime is up.
Also, on that second rotation, dont use the BB, use the BS cause you don't get a death rune from blood boil.
Also, try this build in Blood Presence using the same rotation.
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=6&tal=0000000000000000000000000000320053503520030023 000331013512302003050030000000000000000000)
09-28-2009, 10:09 AM
Okay to address your questions. I am very much so DPSing and I do so in Blood presence. I find Unholy just throws off my rotation. As for the talent points in HC and IFP, they are just fillers. as to why I don't put them in Talons I never honestly thought about it. I might remove the points in subversion so I can put them somewhere a little more useful. like buying unbreakable armor for the extra strength even though it will only last about 10 to 20 seconds that's still a huge thing. I'm pretty sure that I'll be able to do something with the other points left over. FYI I am gonna put my filler points into Talons. that was a great Idea. as for my rotation vs. the rotation you suggested. I didn't notice a difference at all in terms of the cool downs on my death runes. (maybe there is a half second or so but it was something I didn't catch.) thank you for your input it is greatly appreciated.
09-28-2009, 03:49 PM
Looking at what I presume is your new spec (it seems to take into account some of the comments people made earlier in the thread), the only major nitpick I have is that you went 5/5 Icy Talons and then passed on Imp Icy Talons, which is a bit confusing, as the IIT is point for point the same value as Icy Talons, except it also provides raid wide windfury. I'd either make the choice to take all 6 points of Icy Talons/ITT or bail and use those points elsewhere (Probably 3/3 Subversion, 2/2 Imp Frost Presence, and 1/1 Deathchill, though for the record I'm a fan of ITT).
The most rest of my comments fall into the category of stupid dk tricks:
First, get used to using UA as an offensive cooldown every minute. While in the phase of your cycle where both your death runes are up and you're about to start your oblits, hit UA (activates with your death rune) then Blood Tap (reactivates your used blood rune as a death rune bringing you back to 2 death runes) and resume your cycle. With UA back on a 1m timer, UA and BT sync up exactly.
You may want to weave frost strikes in between oblits (either regularly, or when killing machine procs). The goal is to a) not waste killing machine on a IT rather than a FS or HB, and b) not lose potential KM procs by having a KM proc linger unused for 7-8s of a cycle.
More than blood or unholy, frost can use AMS as an offensive tool. You should be able to predict when you're likely to take AoE magic damage, dump your RP and hit AMS just before it hits and go to town with your free 130 RP.
This is more a stupid melee trick, but it counts for DKs too: unless you're dpsing in unholy presence, use a run speed to boots enchant. Almost every boss fight in the game has enough movement involved that the dps time gained from moving back on target 8% faster is almost guaranteed to outweigh the dps gain from any other set of stats available for that slot.
09-28-2009, 04:40 PM
Well Ladies and gentlemen I've gotten my t-9 shoulders and I've noticed an increase in my damage output. It wasn't much but it was significant enough that when I tested out my meters on the dummies in Orgrimmar I managed to pull a solid 2.7k with the above rotations. I'm gonna try to implement the Unbreakable Armor and Rune Tap in on my rotation and see what happens.
I know my bracers are Hurting me in the long run so that is something I'm looking forward to replacing. my question is now where? and what? the the enchant lol..
I'm Also working on leveling my blacksmithing to level 400 so I can socket my bracers and gloves with 2 +20 strength gems. As I've heard strength is king stat for Dks and their DPS.
As far as my enchants go I'm wondering if there isn't something I'm doing wrong there. Enchants are not a problem for me to get mainly cause I know several chanters and they are willing to help me with the mats. I know that I love the "Free Enchants" that Dks can put on our weapons but I'm positive that there is something better that i can put there. I also know that some of my other enchants can either be replaced or are fine. I just need to know what I'm doing wrong there.
Hi there, glad you had an increase...
oh yea... the BS 1st will give you about 2 seconds extra on your death rune cooldown... basically off the GCD of your skills if you're in blood presence... i know i'm just nitpicking :p
also, i agree on the bit where you only HB when rime procs and maximizing dmg through AMS when an AOE is about to hit...
one thing for me while trying DW frost dps is that with slow/slow weaps... i do much better in unholy presence (sry, no solid math except on the target dummy)... but my justification is that Necrosis and BCB procs off your auto attacks (which is increased as you're in unholy presence)...
@Dathe: BS instead of BB works if you want the Death rune, but for grps of 3 or more BB gives you better returns imho... sry, no solid math again (i'm bad at those) but that's what i've been seeing from recount based on my experience...
09-29-2009, 05:22 AM
When I played dw frost I noticed it did not play well in 5 mans. The rotation is to long and it relies to much on procs, which if you are constantly changing targets because the 1st or 2nd one is dead doesn't give you as many chances for KM or Rime to proc. So that could very well be the biggest part of the issue.
06-30-2010, 03:56 AM
I personally find DW in 5 man hc's to be quite good. I keep a steady 4k dps on trash and on 5 man bosses anywhere from 5.5-6.5k on 5 man bosses.I think alot of it will depend on gear weather you will perform well in hc's.
06-30-2010, 04:01 AM
O.o wow a serious old threat got resurrected... Prior to today, this was last posted in back in September.