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DawnRider
09-23-2009, 07:10 PM
This is my first topic here. Wasnt sure where it goes. I checked other areas and figured it might go here.


Here is my armory:
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kil%27jaeden&n=Dawnrider)

It seems that lately(before the 3.2.2 patch) I started having a real problem with holding aggro. I think it might have to do with the T9 pants I changed, since I lost hit. But looking into it I read that Hit doesnt really make up a lot of our threat..so I think it might be my str or something I dont know.

I started to notice it during my guilds HM of Hodir, then it started to happen elsewhere, such as TOC10/25...I really need to get this fixed since I'm my guilds MT.

Any and all help for this would be great.

Worldie
09-23-2009, 07:55 PM
Priests. Tell them to stop shielding.

uglybbtoo
09-23-2009, 11:04 PM
Hey worldie explain because I know you are guru so not dismissing, I thought they fixed that 3.1???

Couldnt find exact reference to pallys but found warrior

From blue post

MMO-Champion BlueTracker - Upcoming Warrior Changes in 3.1.0 (http://blue.mmo-champion.com/10/7913071821-upcoming-warrior-changes-in-310.html)

QUOTE:
You now gain rage when damage done to you is absorbed, such as through a Power Word: Shield.


Personally never noticed problem with a priest shielding me so extrapolate plz.

Irat
09-24-2009, 12:22 AM
There is a bug atm where Priest bubbles are stealing casts if they hit at the right time:

PW:S Causing me to Steal spellcasts (Merged) (http://www.mmo-champion.com/class-priest/pws-causing-me-to-steal-spellcasts/msg1500709/?topicseen)

pretty bad if they steal a AS pull.

uglybbtoo
09-24-2009, 01:20 AM
LOL thats pretty funny ... the rest of our casts are instant so I guess its only the AS pull thats a drama.

Mačl
09-24-2009, 01:38 AM
May I be the first to offer a healthy WTF?

Tanks(esp with nice avoidance) live so much longer with a shield, an aegis and a kiss. In most cases that is exactly the amount of absorb that decides if the next hit is fatal or not.
As a disc priest I couldn't stop shielding. that's like asking rogues not to wield sharp pointy things for healt&safety reasons. IF this bug exists and I only say IF then it'd better be fixed soon.

The bug occurs on happy coincidence. If I don't shield the tank and he gets gibbed coincidence it ain't.

Worldie
09-24-2009, 03:41 AM
This bug exists, has been reported on multiple sources, including our holy and disc priests who were both told to stop pw:shielding tanks.
Some priest also reported it stealing a Taunt from the tank, you can guess how it ended.

Also one of the multiple proofs of this:
http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/5007/omghax.jpg
Check both his damage done, and the Soul Shards in inventory.

Mačl
09-24-2009, 04:20 AM
Shields are a very powerful mitigation tool for esp Disc Priests. Even if they only absorb 6k damage it can make the difference wether the next hit is fatal or not. The Weakened Soul debuff is also important because it means more crit, more Aegis, more mitigation while spamming heals. Esp with the relatively high avoid tanks have while using stam gear you can count on 10k+ damage absorb stacked on the tank in between hits.

I think giving up something like that for a freak occurance is quite quite foolish.

Blizz has cleaned up the glyph for PW:S. The healing effect used the crit chance of the target rather than the priests. I guess something went wrong while they implemented that. It could be that we should skip that glyph and pick up another one.

The soulshard and the observations made exclude a possible error on side of the damage meters.

Who volunteers to test my theory?

Synapse
09-24-2009, 05:55 AM
May I be the first to offer a healthy WTF?

Tanks(esp with nice avoidance) live so much longer with a shield, an aegis and a kiss. In most cases that is exactly the amount of absorb that decides if the next hit is fatal or not.
As a disc priest I couldn't stop shielding. that's like asking rogues not to wield sharp pointy things for healt&safety reasons. IF this bug exists and I only say IF then it'd better be fixed soon.

The bug occurs on happy coincidence. If I don't shield the tank and he gets gibbed coincidence it ain't.
The problem is that as soon as your shield does it's job, the tank will do his thing and all his threat will go to you. Do you want to taunt that guy with a spear thrice your size?
PW:S bug causes wipes.
No one is denying the power of PW:S for priests, we're just saying that it *is* a bug critical to the point you don't want to shield your tanks due to the risks involved.

Worldie
09-24-2009, 07:37 AM
The bug seembs to have been solved, i've done a heroic with our Disc priest today and while he was constantly shielding me he didn't steal any cast.

kallen
09-24-2009, 07:52 AM
I was told the bug is in the PWS glyph. If your priests has this glyph just swap it out til its fixed.

Zothor
09-24-2009, 08:21 AM
Hey guys - he doesn't mention priests at all, and that bug was introduced in 3.2.2. He said his problem started BEFORE the patch. So let's address his actual threat concerns.

Surprised nobody commented on the fight he mentioned - Hodir Hard mode. If your only threat problem is hodir, relax. That fight is DESIGNED to be a threat problem. The DPS can stack buffs better than any tank, even a paladin getting the spell damage buff, can deal with. Train one of your mages to stand at max range, have him pop mirrors when he gets the static buff, and then the moment hodir turns (when mirrors drop) taunt him back. He can invis off the threat after that and you'll have more aggro than you need for the rest of the fight. If he's at max range, you've got about a second and a half window to get the taunt in before he gets gibbed. Focus frame him and watch the timer on mirror images, you'll know exactly when he's about to re-hit the threat table.

Also... why the heck are you still using Libram of Obstruction? There is zero reason to use that anymore in 3.2.2, since Libram of the Sacred Shield, available on conquest badges, was buffed up to the appropriate level for shieldblock. Threatwise though for the hodir fight and any time you feel threat pushed, I'd invest in the ret libram. 200 strength with a 95%ish uptime is a stupid amount of additional threat.

You're also carrying dual prot spec, and I'm not 100% sure I see why. One is your Vindication/POJ spec, 1V+3C, a very standard high threat spec. THe other though... is 5V+3C, dropping vindication. It looks like you intend this to be your max threat spec, but then you take poitns and drop them in divinity? If you're not going to take Imp HOJ or DG, and you've got points to spare, throw them in Reckoning. It's not terrible anymore post 3.2 - it's still our worst threat talent, but Divinity is practically useless compared to extra threat.

What I'd reccomend more though is speccing out of crusade in your 2nd spec. Keep the Vindy/POJ 1V+3C spec for TOC, where almost all of the mobs fall under the 6% damage bonus catagory for crusade (humanoids, undead, elementals, demons).... but if you're having threat problems in ulduar, where the bosses are giants and mechanicals, spec a SoTP spec for your 2nd prot spec.

An example, modified from your current offspec:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sVZV0tA0urusIufdts0h)

Further, if this is primarily your Ulduar spec and you don't have a regular non-paladin tank taking care of general for you, you could move 1 point in Conviction to take 2/2 SA and solve the mana issues. I actually tanked Vezax just fine last night with 1/2 SA standing in to take the surge damage and sitting when I needed to get whacked :P

Ulduar is mechanically different because of the mob type issues on Crusade (Some call them DUH mobs since elementals used to not be included, but since they are now I like HUDE mobs). Don't stress.

Akeber
09-24-2009, 09:14 AM
Hey guys - he doesn't mention priests at all, and that bug was introduced in 3.2.2. He said his problem started BEFORE the patch. So let's address his actual threat concerns.

It's amazing how one short post that really didn't give any help derailed this thread so badly.

To the OP, while you're tanking do you watch Omen or whatever threat meter you use to get an idea what your TPS is. I know it's not very accurate as TPS rises and falls as you go through the rotation, but you should always be 6K plus. Are there specific classes that are closer than others, or is it everyone?

DawnRider
09-24-2009, 02:07 PM
Zothor (http://www.tankspot.com/forums/members/zothor.html): Thank you for actually trying to address my problem rather then prattle on about priests.

My guild and I discussed that about hodir, and they said that I held threat great on his HM 2 weeks ago, then suddenly I could barely hold it.

I'm still using Obstruction cause my badges are being spent elsewhere, but I do think I have the badges to get Libram of the Sacred Shield. I did concider the ret Libram also.

I have dual prot spec cause I was testing out the Vindication Spec. The first one with Divinity was my original just incase the Vin spec wasnt good. My guild did, VOA25, then TOC25, and the healers said I was much easier to heal, and I was taking less damage. My guild does ULD on off nights, mostly we are doing TOC 10/25. I switched my main prot spec to the Vind one.


You're also carrying dual prot spec, and I'm not 100% sure I see why. One is your Vindication/POJ spec, 1V+3C, a very standard high threat spec. THe other though... is 5V+3C, dropping vindication. It looks like you intend this to be your max threat spec, but then you take poitns and drop them in divinity? If you're not going to take Imp HOJ or DG, and you've got points to spare, throw them in Reckoning. It's not terrible anymore post 3.2 - it's still our worst threat talent, but Divinity is practically useless compared to extra threat.

that kinda confused me. the V+C parts...I take C to be Crusade..is the V Conviction?


ooohhh DUH = Demons, Undead, Humans...lol i wondered why they called it DUH mobs lol..dam :P

Akeber: Yes I do watch omen, and several times My raid has cought up to me in threat and even passed me.

I just feel like somethings wrong on my threat production now and i cant figure out wat it is