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araisbeck
09-21-2009, 04:53 PM
I have not started yet, but I will be leveling a Warrior soon. I can't play WoW yet, so I'm just trying to get everything that I'm going to do planned out before I start leveling my character.

My question is about professions. I was originally planning on leveling Mining and Skinning, to gain as much money as possible while leveling, so that I could buy some good tanking gear once I hit 80. Looking over Cider's 540 Defense Guide and Polar's Pre-Naxx guide made me realize that I will need some AH gear, most likely.

I've been looking at some experienced Warriors armories recently, however, and see that the most popular combination of professions for end-game raiding is Jewelcrafting and Blacksmithing together. Now I'm wondering if I should level either Blacksmithing or Jewelcrafting while leveling, to get it over with faster. This, however, would severely cut into my savings when I hit 80.

TL;DR:

What is my best choice for professions when leveling up?
Mining/Skinning (for money)
Mining/Blacksmithing (to get a head start)
Mining/Jewelcrafting (to get a head start)

Martie
09-21-2009, 06:31 PM
Any choice of two from Blacksmithing, Jewelcrafting and Engineering is ideal for getting the most of your professions.

While the bonuses for most professions are, item points wise, the same, Blacksmithing and Jewelcrafting will allow you the most flexible choice of bonuses.
(Mining gives you a flat stamina bonus which is good for tanks, but only for tanks, really. Leatherworking gives you a bonus that isn't too usefull for tanks.)

I added engineering to the list because it has unique bonuses that can be quite good to have, there will forever be debate about this, though.

All gear that you can buy or make will be replaced eventually, and it's quite possible to make money using crafting professions. I'd dump leatherworking first (from what I've seen the market is rather full of the mats, and the bonus is the least usefull) and grab blacksmithing or jewelcrafting. You won't have to buy your stuff from the AH then, you'll be able to craft it yourself, and both work nicely together with mining.

Once you are a bit geared up and have a comfortable amount of money, drop mining as well and pick up one of the professions you don't yet have.

Of course, keeping mining is a perfectly valid choice, and I'd pick up either Jewelcrafting or Blacksmithing to go with it. While Engineering is a valid choice, picking it up would depend on your raid group having an engineer already (the first engineer in a raid group adds a nice amount of utility, the second and third relatively little.) Engineering also isn't as flexible as the other two.

Which one you should pick up I cannot tell you, pick whichever you like better, they are equally strong as far as I know.
Getting the top-end recipes for JC is slow - you will have to do four dailies per recipe or spend a lot of money/titanium ore on it. Getting the top-end recipes for Blacksmithing can be slow - they are raid drops from some of the harder raids.

While levelling your alt, keep all the ore and bars you find. You'll need quite a lot of mats to get your professions up, and from my experiences prices are low when you want to sell stuf, but high when you want to buy stuff.

araisbeck
09-21-2009, 06:53 PM
Thanks for all of the information, Martie. I'm still uncertain in a couple of places, however.

First, you said that the ideal way to level is with Mining + BS or JC. As far as I can tell, this will reduce my savings from Mining to 0, considering the funds of ore and money that will be needed to level either crafting profession. Should I still have a sizable chunk of savings at 80, if I spend a limited amount of money while leveling?

I'm thinking of going with Mining + JC, as JC seems to have some great end-game items to look forward to, that are semi-easily obtained. These include the Titanium Earthguard Chain, which I was planning on buying once I hit 80, but could instead craft on my own. My question that comes with this though, if you have any experience with this, is: How hard are the Jewelcrafting quests that reward you with the Dalaran tokens needed to trade in for some of the high-end JC recipes? (I did a small bit of research on wowhead)

Thanks!

Destruyen
09-21-2009, 07:11 PM
i would go with mining and skinning until around lvl 60-70 since most of that time you will be fighting alot of beasts to skin. mining will give you a head start on mats for either bs or jc as well as some funds for mount/training. once you hit 60, you should have enough money from dual gathering profs for your flying training and mount.

then you can switch to either bs or jc with some of the already stashed away mats with a decent mining skill to lvl one of them into the 300s.

araisbeck
09-21-2009, 07:41 PM
Thanks for the advice Destruyen. That sounds like a good idea. I will wait until 60 to pick up Jewelcrafting. I'll just make a bank alt and stock up on mats until then.

I wish I could mark two answers as the "best answer," since both of your replies helped me out. I'm going to mark Martie's as the best though, as his was the first reply.

Martie
09-21-2009, 07:44 PM
All my advise was meant as a "do this once you are 80 and have some cash" thing, sorry if it was unclear.
Just level up using skinning and mining, but try not to spend any money, as getting to level 80 carrying enough gold to get epic flying and some gear is a very nice thing.

If you want better gear, here's a trick I use. Go to Wowhead, and select the gear database for the gear you want. then filter it to only show quest rewards, and set the item level to fifteen to twenty higher then you are.
That should give you relatively short list of available gear, and only a few truly good ones. After selecting the good ones, see what level the quest requires, and if you can do it, try and convince a friend to help you do it, or get a group together for it quickly.
I've personally mostly focused on weapons for it (since for the most part, damage done determines questing speed, and your weapon determines your damage done.)

Note that the heirloom weapon is so good that you probably won't have to worry about anything else for weapons.

Here is an example of the list I'd make if I wanted an armor upgrade at level 40 for a warrior.
Armor - Items - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?items=4&filter=qu=2:3;sl=5;ty=2:3:4;maxle=60;cr=18;crs=1;c rv=0#0-2+1)
I know epics aren't an option, so I decided to select green and blue quality only, and since warriors aren't limited to just plate, I allowed leather and chain as well.

Since I know WoW, I can ignore anything that isn't doable as a quest (instances, or in too high level zones), but there are some nice little gems out there.

I'd finally spot Warforged Chestplate - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=11195) in there. It's in the badlands, a place where a level 40 with some help can survive, so I check the quest requirements. Minimum level 40, that's good, so I'd try and get some help in getting that particular item, knowing that it'll serve me well for at least ten levels, probably more.
(Note, Item level 57 means that for a BoE, it would mean you'd need to be level 52 to equip it.)

Just a tip. :)

Edit: Fixed a typo.

araisbeck
09-21-2009, 08:55 PM
Thanks for continuing to give advice Martie, you're a great help. A few questions about your last post, though. I hate to keep asking more and more. ><

1. You said level leatherworking and mining. Did you mean skinning and mining, or is there some money-making potential to leatherworking that I don't know about?

2. Would you suggest waiting all the way until 80 to switch to JC/BS, or rather 60 or 70, like Destruyen suggested?

I played WoW from vanilla until just before Black Temple came out, so I know a thing or two about the game. I quit right before Black Temple, but am now hoping to get back into it. Cataclysm was a great incentive. :)

I'm not worried about obtaining gear while leveling. I don't plan on spending any money on gear while leveling, as I know it will just be replaced, even if I do get to use it for 10 or so levels. Thanks for the tip on quest gear though. I may use that if I don't think my current gear is suiting me well. I plan on doing some instances along the way though, if only to get used to tanking before 80. I also don't have any "heirloom" items, as I haven't played since BC. I'm still not quite sure how you even obtain heirloom items.

Martie
09-21-2009, 09:12 PM
Yes, I meant skinning.
(I make whole-word typos sometimes, whee.)

My advice would be to keep on mining and skinning 'till 80.
In my opinion, any advantage gained from getting crafting professions before 80 isn't worth it.
True, you can make some gear, but it'll generally be worse then quest gear, and any advantage from the gear is short-lived.
If you keep skinning till 80, you should have another 1-2k gold when you hit 80, and that 2k gold will allow you to buy some very nice starting gear, or epic flying.

araisbeck
09-21-2009, 09:33 PM
Okay thanks, I will go for money-making up until 80. I'll make sure to save most of my mining mats though, for when I need to level JC and BS. Most of my money will be from quests and skinning, I guess.

Kurtosis
09-21-2009, 09:38 PM
Leveling w/ two crafting professions is crazy, unless your realm has a good economy and you're a master Auction House arbitrageur. Here are the general expenses you'll have to fork out for even before you hit 80:

1. Apprentice Riding (Lvl 20 slow riding skill + reg ground mount)
2. Journeyman Riding (Lvl 40 fast riding skill + epic ground mount)
3. Expert Riding (Lvl 60 slowflying skill + reg flying mount)
4. Artisan Riding (Lvl 70 fast flying skill + epic flying mount)
5. Skill training, which gets fairly expensive post 70.

Somewhere b/t 5500 and 6000 gold for all of those.
Apprentice Riding - Spell - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=33388)

At 80 you'll need a few hundred at least, more likely a few thousand, for gear (esp w/ crafted ilvl 226+ boe items regularly on AH post 3.2), and for your crafting professions (I find it costs about 3000 gold plus or minus to powerlevel crafting prof's from 1 to 450, so that's 6000g for two professions). So assume that as you level from 1 to 80 you will need to have gathered about 12000g worth in order quickly get your toon up to patch 3.2+ raiding par.

If you level with 2 gathering professions, auctioning everything, and saving every copper (eg, not buying gear from ah, just using quest gear and drops to upgrade as you level) you'll have a steady income stream and easily have all your mounts by the time you hit 70, or low 70s.

After that, you plan what you'll need to powerlevel your Raiding crafting professions, and farm all those before you start powerleveling. Make sure you've got all the mats, the 32 slot mining/bs/herb/ench/whatever bags, etc b/f dropping your gathering profs.

If you level w/ one gathering and one crafting prof, say mine/bs, you use all the mats you gather to level the crafting prof and make no money for the riding skills/mounts and other stuff as you level.

And if you level with two crafting professions, you'll be broke the whole way to 80, broke at 80, and still have two unmaxed crafting skills (the possible exception being tailoring/enchanting, since Tailoring is both crafting and gathering, and enchanting can gather from disenchanting the items you make to level tailoring).

Again, unless you're an AH master arbitrageur/trader, level to 80 w/ two gathering profs, save up everything you need to buy all your mounts, starter gear, and powerlevel two raid-optimal professions, before you drop one or both of the gathering profs. Once you drop those, your income stream dries up unless you've figured out another way to replace it, which depends much more on your realm economy.

araisbeck
09-21-2009, 10:10 PM
So Kurtosis, you suggest selling all of my mining mats while leveling for the money, and not saving? Instead, farming for them whenever I come to the point where I want to finally level up my crafting profs?

Also, what are the 32-slot bags you speak of? I haven't played in a long time, I don't know what those are, haha.

Martie
09-21-2009, 10:18 PM
He is, and while it's not bad advice, he also suggests powerlevelling your crafting professions, which would probably include buying back the stuff you sold.
Which is the reason why I suggested saving it all.


Bags are as follows now.
Netherweave bag is the 'standard' bag to start out with. They cost a dozen gold or so, depending on your server. 16 slots. I'd say that getting a set of these would be your first goal.
Frostweave bags are, at 20 slots, the ones you upgrade them with. Prices should vary from 60 to 100 gold.
Several professions have special bags for them, as you should know. The biggest version of those are 32slot bags. They should be under 100 gold as well, though there are exceptions.

He also forgot to mention cold weather flying as something needed at 80 (or earlier). That'll set you back another 1k gold.

araisbeck
09-21-2009, 10:24 PM
Kurtosis's idea sounds valid, since I will need that money to buy my mount skills and some gear to start with at 80. I can farm for the mats/money needed to powerlevel the professions when I'm ready, and I'll already have all of the basics I need. (epic flyer, etc.)

I do seem to remember the profession-specific bags. If I remember right, though, they can only hold stacks of mats for that profession. Am I correct?

I remember seeing that you need cold-weather flying, and that it costs 1k.

Kurtosis
09-22-2009, 11:31 AM
He is, and while it's not bad advice, he also suggests powerlevelling your crafting professions, which would probably include buying back the stuff you sold.
You buy all those mats if you have enough gold left over after buying your epic flying skill and mount and starter tank gear. Or you can spend a weekend re-farming most or all the mats you need to powerlevel two professions b/f dropping your gathering profs. Once you've got an 80 w/ epic land and flying mount, refarming is pretty fast, and like Fishing it's a grind you won't have to do again. OP's choice.

I have one 80, four 70s, and various lower levels (had alt-itis all through BC), and this method is the most reliable way I've found to fund the really expensive necessary things as quickly as possible.

Only exception being mastering trading on the AH (which can be done at any level on a developed enough server economy), but it's risky and on many realms you're competing against gold farmers and full-time gamers who do nothing but scan the AH all day for mis/underpriced stuff and relist, de, mill, prospect, craft and/or resell. Requires alot of addons like Auctioneer, MarketWatcher, ATSW, LilSparky's Workshop, etc. For someone asking this question, going gathering x2 till you have everything you need for end-game that gold can buy is guaranteed to work.


I remember seeing that you need cold-weather flying, and that it costs 1k.
True, forgot about that. Available at 77 for your first character on the account (and at lvl 68 via heirloom item for all subsequent toons). Add 1k to my estimate.

Kurtosis
09-22-2009, 11:37 AM
I do seem to remember the profession-specific bags. If I remember right, though, they can only hold stacks of mats for that profession. Am I correct?
True, though I've never needed them while actually leveling. Just fill up your character screen with your main and 9 bank alts, and mail everything to your bank alts when your main's bags fill up. Then either auction from your bank alts, or return to your main and auction from your main.

araisbeck
09-22-2009, 01:29 PM
Wow, 9 bank alts, haha. Thanks for all of the tips Kurtosis. I will be sure to follow all of your tips. I'm typing everything I learn from TankSpot into a Word document so that I can remember them all when I finally get to start playing again.

Phathead 009
09-22-2009, 01:30 PM
I STRONLGY suggest you level mining and blacksmithing together instead of mining/jewelcrafting. I say this from experience. My main (and first) WoW character is a warrior who had herbalism and mining when leveling. I dumped herbalism at endgame to do BS, then later dumped mining to get JC. I say keep mining and do BS first because there are some points leveling BS where you need tons of mithril and later thorium ore, and at least on my server these ores were even more expensive than cobalt or saronite (more than titanium pre 3.2). Being able to mine your own mats, while tedious, will save you tons of money when leveling BS. I would suggest the following path:

1-80 - BS + Mining - Use the mats you get from mining to level BS, and farm extra when needed. Save all the jewels you find.
80+ - Once you hit 80, spend a week or so mining all the saronite and titanium you think you will need, then ditch mining and powerlevel JC with your saved mats, buying bits and pieces from the AH when needed.

I cannot stress enough how much better it was to have mining and BS at my disposal when leveling. Being able to craft your own stuff and not having to pay for the mats makes life so much easier.

araisbeck
09-22-2009, 01:44 PM
Back in my days in vanilla, I had a Warrior whose professions were Mining/Blacksmithing. I leveled both all the way to 300, and found that the items I could craft with Blacksmithing were never worthwhile for my character, plus I was almost always broke, even with farming my own mats.

I think I'll take Kurtosis' advice and go with two gathering professions on my way to 80, so that I can get my necessary flying mount and some beginning tanking gear. I will definitely be farming my own mats for powerleveling BS and JC before I drop Mining though.

Kurtosis
09-22-2009, 02:58 PM
Wow, 9 bank alts, haha.
Heh, yeah at least they're free. Profession bags, especially the Wrath 32 slot Mine/JC/Ench/Herb/Inscr bags all cost several hundred worth in mats. A luxury when you can just mail stuff to bank alts instead.

Thanks for all of the tips Kurtosis. I will be sure to follow all of your tips. I'm typing everything I learn from TankSpot into a Word document so that I can remember them all when I finally get to start playing again.
Np, and I don't think these threads get deleted for a long time, so you can come back to it later. You can find it in Control Panel (top of this page) -> List Subscriptions (left menu, near bottom). I still have a post in my list back in January 09, which is about when I started learning tanking and frequenting Tankspot.

nethervoid
09-22-2009, 03:35 PM
IMO Jewelcrafting and Enchanting are the best, as you save the most cash at lv 80 with these two professions. With JC you can just buy raw gems and cut them. With Enchanting you can DE the stuff that drops for either your own chant mats or to sell on the AH for more moolah.

With ench you get +30 (stam) per ring, so you still get the HP bonus. Blacksmithing is a gold sink. I have it, and hate it. It's not that useful past making a couple pieces you could just buy off the AH for dirt cheap anyway. Sure you can make titansteel pieces and sell them, but you'll have to spam trade as each piece will suck your gold dry via AH fees as the pieces don't move fast. Hell even the saronite blue tank pieces are worthless on the AH. They take 2-3 gold to list, and don't seem to sell for 10 days or more per piece. Not a lot of demand for them. At 20-30 gold list just to sell the item, you just LOST about 10g making that crap.

JC gems you can list for a few pennies and make gads of cash off of them, as demand for gems is very high, not to mention tips as there is always someone looking for a JC to cut a raw gem (saves them 30+ gold).

So, mining and skinning to 80, then switch to JC and Enchanting, IMO. Smithing is a gold sink, and doesn't really provide many better items than you can just get through drops or badges. Worthless. Let someone else make that stuff. I'm about to switch from BS to JC after I FINALLY get artisan riding - If I was a JC I would have had it by now.

TL:DR - Pick the professions with the most consumables with the highest turn over rate. All other professions suck.

araisbeck
09-22-2009, 04:29 PM
I was mainly choosing my professions for the end-game bonuses, not the items that they can make (other than JC, where the bonus is the JCer-exclusive gems).

Insahnity
09-22-2009, 04:51 PM
LW is a VERY good tank bonus, but it has maximum effect for bear druids. Even for warriors, it still provides 63 extra stamina (wrist patch gives 103 stamina instead of standard 40 stam enchant), or you can choose 70 resist to a particular school of magic (no other profession can do this). Leg armor patches are stupidly cheap, which cuts down on upgrade costs.

For tanking, I prefer taking smithing over JC. Sure, JC gives bigger bonuses, but frequently, you need minor tweaks when you upgrade tanking gear, and the two extra gem sockets on hands and wrists are great for that. And yes, levelling mining and smithing together is logical, not only so you don't go broke levelling your smithing, but also you get the stamina bonus along the way. You could go JC and smithing at the end, but your gear upgrades are going to be horrendously expensive, since you have no source of incoming materials aside from grinding dailies, which is mind-numbingly boring. You can do a few dailies and farm ores along the way.

If you wish to maximize stamina bonuses, which is really the generally accepted goal for tanks, it's in JC and LW, they are the only ones that offer 63 stamina bonus (Smithing, Enchanting, Mining, etc. all give 60 stamina only). However, it is an odd combo indeed, and for a measly 6 stamina.

Personally, I look at not only what bonuses it offers, but the cost of maintaining it, as I personally dislike dealing with the AH.

Thaak
09-22-2009, 06:36 PM
I personally wouldn't recommend leveling enchanting on your first toon, as it will severely reduce your income while leveling. All those quest items that you would have sold, you now have to DE to get mats to level your profession.

In addition, its hard to "farm" mats to level enchanting. Unlike BS/JC/LW/Eng where you can pick up a gathering profession and just spend a couple hours riding around mindlessly mining/skinning everything in your path, you instead have to hope you get enough from questing/random drops, and if you don't its off to the AH you go.

Tailoring pretty much follows the same rule. All that cloth that you could have sold for money (or turned into bandages to reduce your downtime while grinding/questing, resulting in more progress per hour), just turned into mats to level your profession.

On an unrelated note, I do not believe it has been mentioned yet, but as far as i know, all the "profession bonuses" are available once you get your skill in that profession to 400. So you don't have to worry about that last 50 points in either of the professions if you are just going for the raiding bonuses. Just something to have in mind when planning out the mats/money you'll need to level them.

Kurtosis
09-23-2009, 06:27 AM
I was mainly choosing my professions for the end-game bonuses, not the items that they can make (other than JC, where the bonus is the JCer-exclusive gems).
For endgame bonuses, BS+JC is still BiS for tanks. Not quite as much as it was pre-3.2, but it provides a level of stat flexibility no other profession pair can match.

I chose JC/Ench b/c I needed an income stream (BS is def a gold sink, and on my server so is JC w/out Mining). Here's what I learned:

I found that there is a sweet spot where BS really shines for tanks, which is when you're trying to upgrade your gear from H 5man ilvl 200 epics to Naxx+ ilvl 213+ epics and H ToC 5man ilvl 219 epics. During that transition it is damn difficult to maintain 540 defense while getting anywhere near the hit and expertise caps.

Being able to add 2 more gem slots to your bracers and gloves via BS helps immensely there, as do Northrend food and alchemy buffs. Enchanting unfortunately only has 3 ring enchants - Stam, AP, SP. Nothing for hit, expertise, or defense rating, so it's not too useful there.

However, once I got past that point to an average ilvl of around 217 (wow-heroes.com), this wasn't too much of a problem anymore, as my gear has lots more gem slots and almost all the defense, hit, expertise stats I need. Now I just gem for Exp and Stam, and use a food buff to hit the Expertise cap. Enchanting's 30 Stamina ring enchants are useful especially for Blood tank builds at that point.

I've never been a Blacksmith and am a noob tank, so I don't know if there are additional must-have benefits to BS once you pass avg ilvl of 220 or so. All it would allow me to do at this point is replace my Expertise food buff w/ a Strength or some other food buff, not game changing.

On the flip side, Enchanting is one of the better money-makers in the game. Both Enchanting mats and scrolls require zero deposit costs on the AH, and there is constant demand as people upgrade gear.

They're also not as difficult to farm mats for as BS's crafted gear moneymakers - Spiked Deathdealers, etc. Though if you're on a server with a good economy you might be able to make roughly the same amount selling BS crafted items infrequently as you can selling Enchants frequently, dunno.

Finally, what put Ench over the top for me, is Bliz's announcement that in Cataclysm they will be removing Defense Rating, and replacing it with talent tree abilities that make tanks uncrittable. Hence one of the main reasons to go BS'ing - stat flexibility - is being mitigated in the next expansion. In the next expansion, that 'sweet-spot' b/t heroics and raids where BS currently shines may not exist.

So for me, a reliable way to make money to fund my tanking and JC'ing is worth more than some additional stat flexibility that I find I don't need so much at my current and subsequent gear levels, and a big part of which looks to be going away next expansion.

nethervoid
09-23-2009, 10:01 AM
JC - Instead of +30 stam gem, +51 stam gem + I can save 30+ gold on each epic cut = I am not constantly farming gold to keep raid supplies up

Ench - +30 stam to each ring (cost is about 30g in mats I could have sold on AH) + I can DE lv 80 drops and sell them for more gold than just selling them to a vendor (farm reg ToC for abyss shards galore!) + I can mitigate buying ench mats from the AH because I supply my own = I am not constantly farming gold to keep raid supplies up

BS - I get two more gem slots (spend 300-400 gold filling those slots) + The gear I can make won't sell on AH because of low demand + BS items I make for myself are only useful for a very short period in gear life + I could just buy them from some other BS and save gold = Gold sink means I have to farm even MORE to keep raid supplies up

With BS being such a horrible gold sink, you'd think the items you could make with it would be way better than what would be available from drops in your level range (not barely better; WAY better), even if they're BS equippable only. I'm not really sure why bliz makes BS suck so much. lol BS either needs a lot of much better BS only items added to it, or (preferrably) bliz needs to add a bunch of 'must have' raid consumables to it for it to be worth having.

I sound bitter, because IMO bliz has really borked BS. Hate having spent all that money and time on it for it to be so imbalanced with the other professions. =(

araisbeck
09-23-2009, 11:43 AM
Now I have people trying to convince me to get Enchanting, hah.

Enchanting sounds like a great profession as well, and much less of a goldsink than Smithing. It also seems like it would be very easy to powerlevel at 80 by just farming some low-level instances for greens to DE. It also does seem to be a great money-making profession at 80.

My problem with Blacksmithing has always been the worthlessness of all of the items you create while leveling Smithing, like you said, nethervoid. However, the extra gem slots seems like a better bonus than +60 Stamina.

Can some people give opinions to sway me to one side?

Theotherone
09-23-2009, 12:54 PM
Now I have people trying to convince me to get Enchanting, hah.

Enchanting sounds like a great profession as well, and much less of a goldsink than Smithing. It also seems like it would be very easy to powerlevel at 80 by just farming some low-level instances for greens to DE. It also does seem to be a great money-making profession at 80.

My problem with Blacksmithing has always been the worthlessness of all of the items you create while leveling Smithing, like you said, nethervoid. However, the extra gem slots seems like a better bonus than +60 Stamina.

Can some people give opinions to sway me to one side?

With one toon there's no way to get exactly what you want. I have two that are leveled and a thrid on the way (yes I have no life).

80 Tank = JC (450) and Enchanting (450); and I'm pleased with this combo: stam to rings, Dragon's eye gems and I can make some money on gems and enchants.
80 Hunter = BS (450) and Mining (450);works okay, make some gold on the mining and some of the titansteel goods.
34 Pally = Herbalism and Alchemy (getting there).

I really like the access to epic gem cuts and enchants for all my toon.

Kurtosis
09-23-2009, 01:18 PM
Now I have people trying to convince me to get Enchanting, hah.
...
Can some people give opinions to sway me to one side?
Oh, I forgot to mention, that difficult transition spot b/t Heroics and Raids doesn't really exist anymore, since 5man Heroics now give Conquest Emblems (Ulduar lvl gear). Farm those for you ilvl 226 (and some 213) gear, and doing the H daily (2x Triumph emblems) will get you T9.1 shoulders and wrists in 30 days (30 emblems per).

Eg, a new toon just hitting 80 now will completely skip the point where Blacksmithing shines for tanks. Combine that with Defense being removed as a stat in Cataclysm (the next foreseeable time we could incur that sweet spot again). Bliz may make some changes to the profession then, but at this point its special utility for tanks appears to be fading.

nethervoid
09-23-2009, 01:19 PM
Well the way I look at it:

+60 stam from enchanted rings
+60 stam from 2 more stam gems

Same benefit, but the cost of 2x+30 stam enchants is about 60-80g whereas the 2x+30 stam gems are about 300-400g plus 60 or so gold to create the extra sockets in the first place. Now add to that the ability of a chanter to make money at 80 vs a BS. Chanting wins easily. I make additional money every time I run a 5 man and shard a drop! All I have to do is list it on the AH (the AH list fee is tiny compared to plate).

I'm also basing this on not switching out gems a lot. Once I epic gem a slot, it's staying gemmed that way. lol

I want to like BS (cause I love making armor and weapons!), but it's so crappy I just can't keep it. Once I get the gold for artisan flying (which I would have had sooner if I leveled JC instead of BS) I'm dropping BS.

araisbeck
09-23-2009, 01:21 PM
With the combination of JC/BS isn't it actually +102 stamina from the 2 extra slots? Because you can make the JCer-only +51 gems?

nethervoid
09-23-2009, 01:52 PM
No because you can put those gems anywhere. The JC bonus and BS bonus are not related to each other. You get +42 stam for being JC (diff between 2x+30 gems and 2x+51) and +60 stam from 2 extra gem slots from BS.

In my case I'm Ench/BS, so I get +60 stam from ring chants and +60 from 2 extra gem slots (if the gems I had in place were epic). So total for my professions is +120. If I drop one or the other, the bonus from the prof I did not drop is not affected.

Kurtosis
09-23-2009, 02:36 PM
Post 3.2 all the profession bonuses were equalized in degree. Eg, you get roughly the same stam bonus from BS, JC, Ench, Mining, etc. The difference is that sometimes tanks need something other than stam, like Expertise, Hit, Defense, that Enchanting and the other professions can't provide. BS and JC can, and that extra flexibility was why BS/JC has been considered BiS for tanks.

I just don't know if it's really BiS anymore, since Conquest gear has so many gem slots already, and Cataclysm will remove the single major tanking stat.

araisbeck
09-23-2009, 03:40 PM
Thanks everyone. This is how I am looking at going now: I will level to 80 with Mining/Skinning. At 80, I'll drop Skinning for JC, and powerlevel it with the help of my Mining. Then, once JC is at 450, I will drop Mining for Enchanting, and powerlevel that.

Sound good?

Kurtosis
09-28-2009, 12:38 AM
Yup. Or you can just keep Mining, since it provides the same stat benefit to tanks as Ench does (+60 stamina).

You'll have to figure out which is more profitable based on your realm economy. Mining is free mats, and Titansteel still sells very well. But once you finish questing and dailies and spend most of your time instancing and raiding, you'll collect less ore.

There are few to zero nodes in most instances, which is why I eventually dropped Mine for Ench - had finished questing and dailies and wanted a second profession that could make me money running 5mans and raids.

Ench mats you either have to buy on the AH (either the mats or the greens and blues to de), or run alot of instances and Greed on everything hoping to collect some stuff to DE.

Tradeoffs, tradeoffs.

nethervoid
09-28-2009, 04:31 PM
lol This is exactly what I did too. Dropped mining for enchanting once I capped in BC.