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Lowsodium
09-20-2009, 08:26 PM
Ok guys so i have played a hunter for 4 years and i just hit 80 on my pally and i am really interested in tanking. I took some gold and spent about 5k off my main and Auction House geared myself. I have tanked Normal Nexus twice, Drak theron Heroic, Utgarde Keep, Heroic CoS. I am having a serious Mana Problem and Multi Mob control. I Think its due to the over use of Consecration. But Im not sure.. I use the 969 rotation that i read about and i have no problems on single encouters .. But in COS i had seroius issues running out of mana and holding aggro when pulling 10 mobs or so. How often do i need to use consecration to keep aggro.. I throw in Holy Wrath sometimes to help but still to no avail. I have been tanking for less than a week so please any help make it noob friendly. I understand the dynamics of tanking but i am missing something somewhere. Such as the pull.. the initial threat buildup.. I useually pull with avengers sheild and sometimes ill hit like the far left mob with exorcism the hit the far right with avengers sheild to try and ge talot of threat right off the bat.. Thanks.

Just wanted to throw in there that i use divine plea everytime it up..

Lowsodium
09-20-2009, 08:26 PM
Oh and here is my armory profile.. check it out please

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Greymane&n=Lowsodium)

Maelstrom
09-20-2009, 08:41 PM
Quick question, when you're tanking are you using blessing of sanctuary? The mana return from it is very large, especially when you're tanking more than one mob. :)

Lowsodium
09-20-2009, 08:46 PM
oh yeah sorry bout that.. i Use Seal of vengance, Blessing of Sancuary, and yes righteous fury is up lol.

Niian
09-20-2009, 08:59 PM
You're missing out on a fair bit of threat/damage from only having 1 point in Seals of the Pure.

Who's pulling the mobs off you? If it's DPS attacking the wrong targets then thats their problem, not yours. If it's healer agro then it's your problem, because a healer should never generate enough threat to pull off you :)

Mark one before you pull, I normally pull with Hand of Reckoning now, because it's insta cast and does around 2k damage non crit. Throw your shield at any outer ones that will be killed later on then start going to town on the marked mob.
If people out-gear you by a lot you'll find it hard to keep up with threat. In my current gear (mix of naxx10, 25 and badge gear) I find Ulduar geared people riding my threat occasionally.

Maelstrom
09-20-2009, 09:03 PM
Alrighty. You mention you use divine plea every time it's up, that could be an issue. The protection talent "Guarded by the light" refreshes your divine plea buff constantly while you are tanking (Every time you make a melee hit or attack with a special melee ability, it refreshes divine plea to 15 seconds), the mana gained from this is enormous.

However if you're popping divine plea manually when it's already running, then you could run into problems. Generally guarded by the light means you only need to pop divine plea once per trash pack or boss, and even then if you pull the next trash pack within 15 seconds you'll refresh it again. My personal favorite is having the same divine plea running for a whole clear of halls of lightning :). Save your divine plea cooldown for when you need to stand around and your existing divine plea buff drops off (Healer getting mana, DPS afk, etc), that way you're always good to go on the pull with this general checklist.

1.) Divine plea just before the pull
2.) Holy shield up
3.) Avenger's shield the mobs
4.) Consecration as you run into position
5.) Hammer of the Righteous the mobs

Between 3 and 4 you can also use Avenging Wrath - Spell - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=31884) for 20% extra threat every 3 minutes, I generally save this for bosses, but it's personal preference.

Oh, and for Caverns of Time: Strat, getting a Glyph of Sense Undead - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43368) as a minor glyph and turning on sense undead is a little more threat. :)

I would say your threat issues are probably a result of you running low on mana, so I'd work on that first. It's all down to practice at keeping that divine plea ticking as much as possible :)

Niian
09-20-2009, 09:07 PM
Oh something I forgot to point out too:

Depending on the instance even in my gear I can OOM so very very fast. We need to take damage, to get healed, to get mana, as well as getting steady mana back from Divine Plea. If you find you're only fighting one or two mobs and mana is becoming an issue you can either skip out consecrate (as it's rather expensive!) or put on Seal of Wisdom.

A few times I've found myself finding a few mobs and letting them beat on me so Sanctuary can do it's thing. Horay for manabatteries.

uglybbtoo
09-20-2009, 09:29 PM
Unless armory hasnt updated correctly you have more serious issues than threat.

I am showing you at 513 def and with almost no gemming or chants. No frosthide leg armor, no belt buckle socket, No shoulder chant, No head chant it goes on and on.

A good place to start if armory is correct is here
Maintankadin • View topic - The Maintankadin Consolidated Gearing Guide. (http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/forum/index.php?f=21&t=19656&rb_v=viewtopic)

and for talents and glyphs start here
Maintankadin • View topic - 3.2 Specs: Summary of options (http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/forum/index.php?f=1&t=25089&rb_v=viewtopic)

Lowsodium
09-21-2009, 02:47 AM
Okay.. maybe i need a better informed answer on that .. if i add all the defense rating gear together i come up with 546 not including socket bonus. but my defense says its only 513.. what can i do to make this come up? and is there a trusted website that would tell me that.. i can regem, reenchant easy.. i know i need 540 to be capped.. i thought thats where i was at.. and keep in mind that ive been working on this toon for less than a week so he is severly undergeared.. and i dont have the correct rep for the SoH chants or anything like that.. which im working on..

Thaak
09-21-2009, 03:13 AM
The problem is you're counting defense rating and thinking its defense. It takes ~5(i think its 4.89) points of DEFENSE RATING to get one point of DEFENSE. You have a base DEFENSE of 400 from being level 80. You need 140 more DEFENSE to become uncrittable(135 for heroics). That means you need slightly less that 700 DEFENSE RATING to get 540 DEFENSE.

Hope that clears up your confusion.

Skaggi
09-21-2009, 05:53 AM
Ooooookay. Basics first. 540 defense you need and this guide helps when selecting the right gear.

http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f97/41986-cider-s-easy-540-defense-gear-guide.html

Btw. the "Guides" tab at the top supplies you with enourmous amounts of condensed 'something' ;)

Get yourself some trinkets ASAP even if they are only the account bound ones bought by the hunter. Missed stats are not on the plus side for tanks.

Keeping threat while maintaining mana is really easy for a tankadin in CoS when done correctly. Bless sanctuary, pop divine plea and hit every single mob in your way straight in the face. This will ensure divine plea doesn't drop of at all and all those dodge/parry/miss/blocks translate into mana. Why thank you little pesky ghouls! :D

Just tell your healer to stop healing between groups so he doesn't gather those ghouls and your DPS to only get away if you're actually 'standing in your consecrate'. Shoot your wrath at trash for added threat and survival since stunned mobs don't do damage and bosses won't be stunned anyway. Don't ever use wrath on those little ghouly mana batteries along the way... :D

Oh... and don't care to much if some of those ghouls run away. They're dead in two hits and so won't really reach DPS anyway. They're there for two reasons only: Keep the group infight so regging and rezz is not available and mana / rage / runepower reg for tanks.

Ah well... mass taunting them of your healer is not a bad idea anyway... ;)

That should get you started. Any more questions? Shoot...

Cheers!
skaggi

Lowsodium
09-21-2009, 02:44 PM
Hmm.. well in short.. you guys are awesome.. It totally clicked now.. Cant believe i missed that.. Funny part is i must have had a dam good healer because out of all the Heroics i have run i have only died twice..lol..So im on my way back to the auction house and im gonna re gem and enchant to get that defense up and then im sure ill have more questions later.. But for now im gonna implement all the things yall have posted up and see how it goes.. Thanks again all

Lowsodium
09-21-2009, 05:28 PM
Okay so i made a few changes and i got my defense up to 536.. take a look and let me know if this looks good for heroics.. Thanks again all

WoW Heroes - World of Warcraft PvE character info & ratings (http://wow-heroes.com/index.php?zone=us&server=Greymane&name=lowsodium)

Irat
09-21-2009, 11:26 PM
Your stats look fine for heroics. Get that last couple of points of defense and i would say that your right to step into Naxx too.

You are missing a couple of enchants but i am much more interested in your spec. Two points, firstly 1 point in SA should be enough, we have heaps of incoming mana from DP. 2nd you really shouldn’t be skipping JotJ for any tanking spec. 20% reduction in boss attack speed is a massive reduction in incoming damage, and you really can't afford to rely on someone else to have the effect up.

Skaggi
09-22-2009, 01:04 AM
Hey!

Impressive! Almost made it to a raid tank in one evening! :D

Get yourself the badge libram for extra blockvalue (just remember that block is only good for heroics and early raids) and the hodir shoulder enchant and you're ready for Naxx (assumed that gets you to 540 defense. If not, just drop that 6 stats gem for a defense one.).

From Naxx on upgrades will regularly fly your way so I wouldn't spend money on the glove enchant if you're not really missing something...

Try teaming up with an experienced tank, get him on voice chat and convince him that explaining what and why he's doing stuff is actually worthwhile... Was one of my biggest learning experiences when I started tanking.

Cheers!
skaggi

Lowsodium
09-22-2009, 10:03 AM
Okay so i turned in my relics.. exhaulted with SoH now.. im an idiot and forgot you could put any gem into the belt.. So im gonna go swap that right now.. I guess me next thing is to try and get the Red Sword of Courage from UP.. Hopefully by then ill have enough Emblems to grab my libram.. Thanks for all the help again.. And do yall think in my current gear i can survive naxx?

Maelstrom
09-22-2009, 04:57 PM
Yeah you should be good to go in Naxx :)

Skaggi
09-23-2009, 02:42 AM
Like hell you are!

I tanked a Naxx bosse in my healing set... why thank you, hyperactive owl for pulling that boss after speccing but before dressing in tank gear... :mad:

Not advisable... but doable... :D

Cheers!
skaggi