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Ciderhelm
09-10-2009, 05:13 PM
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Hi, This is darksend and welcome to the TankSpot Crusader's Coliseum raid guide! in this video I will cover the strategy we use for the 25 man heroic version of The Twin Valkyr encounter.

If you'd like more information or would like to learn more about downloading this movie, click "more info" on the movie information box on YouTube to head directly to TankSpot! Also, be sure to subscribe by clicking the Subscribe button to the right to be automatically notified as we release movies.

The twins gain no new abilities on heroic difficulty. Instead you must deal with a significant increase in the number of orbs that spawn. The orbs now deal approximately 15K damage before resist if picked up by a player of the wrong atunement. In addition, the shared hp pool of the twins is increased to just over 39 million (up from just under 28 million), the shield now absorbs 1.2 million damage before breaking and allowing you to interrupt the heal (up from 700K), the constant aoe pulse now deals 4500 damage before resists every 2 seconds (up from 2500), and finally, the touch of darkness and the touch of light now deal 6K damage every 2 seconds (up from 3K) for 20 seconds. Even though changing atunements will immediately remove this debuff, we found it better to simply heal through the damage rather than take the DPS loss of having that person click two different portals half way across the room.

We found that the best way to deal with the increased hp and shield strength is to tank them on top of each other. This allows for cleave damage to be constantly hitting them. It also allows for quick swaps during shields. It is a very strict enrage timer and even if a single heal gets off it could mean a wipe to that enrage.

The way we deal with orbs is to attune all but 2 ranged to light and assign each one to one of the 8 points on the floor. They are to pick up all the light orbs in that area. 2 warlocks will attune dark and use demonic portal to catch as many dark orbs as possible to protect the other 6 ranged players.

as you just saw The first special used on this attempt was dark vortex. This is the easiest special to deal with using this strategy. Not only does it mean that healers do not have to move but by the time the ranged switch they have already eliminated most of the white orbs leaving only a few for melee and healers to dodge.

The next special was dark shield. This is the hardest one for us to deal with using this strategy because of the configuration of the ranged. we have 10 dps atunted to dark but only 6 atuened light. we save all 2 and 3 minute cooldowns such as trinkets for the first dark shield. Rogues continue to attack lightbane and use blade flurry and do full damage to darkbane despite being dark atunted. We do not have anyone switch atunements, we found the dps loss from running to portals and back cannot be made up for by the difference in doing half damage verses 50% more damage for such a short period of time. During dark shield it is important for the tank healers to switch to the lightbane tank and for that tank to use cooldowns as lightbane will dual wield for the entire duration of the dark shield and vice versa during light shield.

Light vortex is much more difficult than dark vortex. First, the healers are almost all moving at this point. Second, when learning this encounter we originally had every single ranged as light. we would constantly have 0 light orbs up and an abundance of dark orbs around the perimeter of the room. The only time dark orbs were ever being picked up is if they happened to randomly float into melee. It was as that point that we decided to have 2 ranged constantly cleaning up dark orbs. Even though excessive dark orbs during light vortex still remains a problem by having a paladin with aura master use it with shadow aura and bubble-divine sacing the raid that we were finally able to get through it cleanly with consistency. (I suspect that if you reverse our strat and use ranged at dark and melee as light you would see an exact reversal of the difficulty of light and dark vortexes)

We always use heroism on the second shield, even if as in this case it is a light shield. At this point we know cooldowns will be back up for a third one, (unless we get 3 shields in a row in which the third one is dark in which case we chalk it up to bad luck and try again). We almost never have problems with light shields even in the absence of heroism and cooldowns. Again make sure all lightbane tank healers switch to the darkbane tank for the duration of the shield and that the darkbane tank uses some kind of cooldown.

Darksend
09-10-2009, 06:15 PM
At squirrels request:

HEROIC CHANGES:


HP increased from 28 million to 39 million
more orbs spawning each doing more damage
Dark and Light shields which prevent heal interrupt now take 1.2 million damage to break (up from 700K)
Dark Surge and Light Surge now tick for 4500 every 2 seconds (up from 2500)
Touch of Light and Touch of Darkness now tick for 6K every 2 seconds (up from 3K) for 20 seconds


First shield:


All 2 and 3 minute cooldowns
Tank healers switch to the non-shielded twins target, that tank needs a cooldown


Second shield:


Heroism/bloodlust
No trinkets or other 2 and 3 minute cooldowns
Tank healers switch to the non-shielded twins target, that tank needs a cooldown


Light vortex:


Bubble-Divine Sacrifice the raid
Shadow aura aura mastery


Dark Vortex:


Make sure to switch if you are a ranged and not keep gathering orbs during it
Easiest of all the abilities


Key points:


Spread out range before the pull
Do not change colors for shields, just break the shield immediately
Heal through touches do not change color just keep DPSing
6 minute enrage (or just after the 8th special)

Squirrelnut
09-11-2009, 12:39 AM
Awesome, thanks :)

Kazeyonoma
09-11-2009, 10:00 AM
hrm, so in 10 mans do you think not switching colors and purely burning is enough to take down the shield because my guild couldn't get it even with bloodlust =T

Darksend
09-11-2009, 11:08 AM
It all depends on your raid makeup. Do you have melee on one ranged on another or do you split them 50/50?

Zoal
09-11-2009, 03:26 PM
The buff that the twin gets while the other twin has the shield up, does that happen regardless of distance apart or will it not happen if far enough away? We've done them every week on normal 10 man since they were available but it never mattered enough to figure it out.

Azuae
09-11-2009, 09:04 PM
this worked great for us on 10m hard tonight.

Muffin Man
09-12-2009, 10:42 PM
Thanks for the bullet pointing, but if I may nitpick. You mentioned a strict enrage timer in the video, but what is it exactly? And can you put it in the bullet points =p.

Seeing how tightly the dps is tuned on all of H-ToC so far, it'd be a great help in planning if your raid is ready for it I think (sadly we still need to get past beasts).

Darksend
09-13-2009, 12:59 AM
Thanks for the bullet pointing, but if I may nitpick. You mentioned a strict enrage timer in the video, but what is it exactly? And can you put it in the bullet points =p.

Seeing how tightly the dps is tuned on all of H-ToC so far, it'd be a great help in planning if your raid is ready for it I think (sadly we still need to get past beasts).


done

Muffin Man
09-14-2009, 05:46 PM
Much thanks.

Shivan
09-16-2009, 09:46 AM
So we are trying to get the 10 player Heroic done before doing 25 player versions. We tried this strat and variations of it on 10 player and ultimately got overwhelmed with orbs or were behind on the enrage timer. Any specific tips for 10 man would be appreciated.

Splug
09-16-2009, 10:53 AM
Orb damage is not nearly as dangerous in 10-heroic. We've been better off ignoring them and healing through the maelstrom, and just using a pure burn strategy.

-Splug

Shivan
09-16-2009, 01:43 PM
Thanks we will try that tonight

Brummer
09-18-2009, 07:57 AM
Rogues continue to attack lightbane and use blade flurry and do full damage to darkbane despite being dark atunted.This does not work for myself(Arms warrior). Sweeping Strikes, bladestorm(shows up as whirlwind), and cleave are all are not getting the bonus damage from me being Light attuned and attacking the Dark twin. The splash damage from cleave, sweeping, and bladestorm is NOT getting the bonus damage while I continue to target the Dark twin. To clarify, the splash damage that hits the Light twin is suffering the 50% reduced because I am light attuned.

Our combat rogue, blood DK both reported the same thing, that bladeflurry and heartstrike were NOT getting bonus damage.

Has there been a recent fix for the encounter? To stop the cleave strat. Anyone experienced the same?

Sargent
09-24-2009, 10:37 AM
Can anyone 100% confirm that your color aura does/doesn't affect damage done to the SHIELD?

I am under the impression that the aura color only affects damage done to a TWIN. The actual damage to the SHIELD is different.

feji
09-24-2009, 04:11 PM
Can anyone 100% confirm that your color aura does/doesn't affect damage done to the SHIELD?

I am under the impression that the aura color only affects damage done to a TWIN. The actual damage to the SHIELD is different.

The ABSORBS from the twins shield do take into account your light/dark essence. I looked through logs a little bit ago to see a shadow priest with light essence hitting darkbane for ~2700 mindflay ticks. Lightbane casted her shield, the shadow priest did not change auras and the mind flay was getting absorbed for ~900 a tick on Lightbane. The damage bonus/nerf according to Thottbot is +/- 50%, so 2700*2/3 = 1800 base mind flay ticks.

1800*0.5 = 900
1800*1.5 = 2700

I can post excerpts from the log if you want.

dcwarcraft
09-29-2009, 03:35 PM
What was the breakdown of Ranged Vs Melee in this encounter.

"The way we deal with orbs is to attune all but 2 ranged to light and assign each one to one of the 8 points on the floor. They are to pick up all the light orbs in that area. 2 warlocks will attune dark and use demonic portal to catch as many dark orbs as possible to protect the other 6 ranged players."

We planned on rollin with:
2 Tanks
7 Healers
9 Ranged
7 Melee

According to the strategy here it looks like you have 8 WHITE Ranged Catchers and 2 DARK Catchers (Warlocks).
Where are your healers or do you count them as ranged? What color do they take?

DPS breakdown for you was "10 dps attuned dark but only 6 attuned light"

Rak
09-29-2009, 04:07 PM
This does not work for myself(Arms warrior). Sweeping Strikes, bladestorm(shows up as whirlwind), and cleave are all are not getting the bonus damage from me being Light attuned and attacking the Dark twin. The splash damage from cleave, sweeping, and bladestorm is NOT getting the bonus damage while I continue to target the Dark twin. To clarify, the splash damage that hits the Light twin is suffering the 50% reduced because I am light attuned.

Our combat rogue, blood DK both reported the same thing, that bladeflurry and heartstrike were NOT getting bonus damage.

Has there been a recent fix for the encounter? To stop the cleave strat. Anyone experienced the same?
After reading this I went and did some analyzing of our logs. I can confirm that Blade Flurry damage is being halved on the same colored twin.


[20:56:43.694] Vegil Eviscerate Fjola Lightbane *17762*
[20:56:43.709] Vegil crits Fjola Lightbane *5239*
[20:56:44.413] Vegil Eviscerate Fjola Lightbane 2098
[20:56:44.803] Vegil crits Fjola Lightbane *5518*
[20:56:45.022] Vegil hits Fjola Lightbane 799
-----------------------------------------------------
[20:56:44.366] Vegil Blade Flurry Eydis Darkbane 8881
[20:56:44.709] Vegil Blade Flurry Eydis Darkbane 2620
[20:56:45.100] Vegil Blade Flurry Eydis Darkbane 1049
[20:56:45.772] Vegil's Blade Flurry fades
[20:56:45.928] Vegil Blade Flurry Eydis Darkbane 2759
[20:56:45.928] Vegil Blade Flurry Eydis Darkbane 399
This was the best example of non-absorbed blade flurry damage I could find to illustrate the proof. You can clearly see the huge initial crit and the following hits, ending with a much smaller hit, all being halved on the other twin.

Barogorn
09-30-2009, 03:28 AM
I was wondering if it is possible for 10 TOGC to run this setup:

1 TANK
3 HEALS
6 DPS

Is the incoming tank dmg too high to single tank them. As far as i can see tank takes minimal dmg when either of the twins is doing there special abilities unless its a nova of the opposite essence the tank has.

Dtain
10-01-2009, 11:37 PM
I was wondering if it is possible for 10 TOGC to run this setup:

1 TANK
3 HEALS
6 DPS

Is the incoming tank dmg too high to single tank them. As far as i can see tank takes minimal dmg when either of the twins is doing there special abilities unless its a nova of the opposite essence the tank has.

This is very posible this is how we clear it on 10m every week in my guild and an easy way to get salt and pepper.

Plagueblood
10-08-2009, 01:25 PM
When doing 10 man, this fight is extremely easy. We did it with 2 tanks (paladin and me, a dk), 3 healers (holy priest, resto shaman, holy paladin) and 5 dps (warlock, mage, boomkin, hunter, rogue).

Prot and holy paladin had lightbane with dark, rest of us had light and darkbane. Him and I tanked them on top of each other by the entrance. All of the DPS stood on the dark portal on the left side, attacking darkbane. When time came, they switched colors to break shield, easy win.

The big problem we are having is on 25 man, we can not break the shield of the color that we are even WITH bloodlust. Has this been changed or are we not doing enough damage? If you only do 50% damage and shield has 1.2mil then it would seem that we have to do 2.4 mil in order to break it (not realistic?) since we can break the other color shield (600k dmg done since its double dmg) about 2/3rds through the cast.

Any suggestions on how to deal with this?

Logist
10-08-2009, 03:31 PM
After reading this I went and did some analyzing of our logs. I can confirm that Blade Flurry damage is being halved on the same colored twin.


[20:56:43.694] Vegil Eviscerate Fjola Lightbane *17762*
[20:56:43.709] Vegil crits Fjola Lightbane *5239*
[20:56:44.413] Vegil Eviscerate Fjola Lightbane 2098
[20:56:44.803] Vegil crits Fjola Lightbane *5518*
[20:56:45.022] Vegil hits Fjola Lightbane 799
-----------------------------------------------------
[20:56:44.366] Vegil Blade Flurry Eydis Darkbane 8881
[20:56:44.709] Vegil Blade Flurry Eydis Darkbane 2620
[20:56:45.100] Vegil Blade Flurry Eydis Darkbane 1049
[20:56:45.772] Vegil's Blade Flurry fades
[20:56:45.928] Vegil Blade Flurry Eydis Darkbane 2759
[20:56:45.928] Vegil Blade Flurry Eydis Darkbane 399
This was the best example of non-absorbed blade flurry damage I could find to illustrate the proof. You can clearly see the huge initial crit and the following hits, ending with a much smaller hit, all being halved on the other twin.
Hi,

so basicaly this means that now even rogues and warriors, etc switch target? not color but target like everyone else?

when was this fixed btw?

thanks!

alannia
10-08-2009, 08:38 PM
What was the breakdown of Ranged Vs Melee in this encounter.

"The way we deal with orbs is to attune all but 2 ranged to light and assign each one to one of the 8 points on the floor. They are to pick up all the light orbs in that area. 2 warlocks will attune dark and use demonic portal to catch as many dark orbs as possible to protect the other 6 ranged players."

We planned on rollin with:
2 Tanks
7 Healers
9 Ranged
7 Melee

According to the strategy here it looks like you have 8 WHITE Ranged Catchers and 2 DARK Catchers (Warlocks).
Where are your healers or do you count them as ranged? What color do they take?

DPS breakdown for you was "10 dps attuned dark but only 6 attuned light"

I am also puzzled over which 10 dps were attuned to dark and which 6 dps to light, anyone able to clarify? So 6/8 white attuned ranged catchers were dps, then all 10 attuned to dark were melee? How about healers, which colour should they be attuned as?

Logist
10-11-2009, 02:06 PM
what if there is only 5 ranged available ? same tactics? or do i split some melee on white? we been trying this last night with 5 ranged on white and 1 on dark to no avail..

danturismo
10-15-2009, 03:31 PM
it's nice to see a kill video given all strategies we were trying were failing.

one thing i did not hear explained is:

who do the light attuned ranged players attack?

are all the dps in the raid attacking the same targets, or are they attacking darkbane to help the health pool go down that much quicker? from what it appears, the player tanking darkbane is light attuned so he/she should have no problems holding threat if all the light players are also attacking darkbane.

murk00
10-22-2009, 10:33 PM
Yes Actually I have a thread on forum and someone posted a strat with 1 tank and also has a link to youtube video also

http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f218/55282-heroic-10-man-northrend-beasts-post-ur-strat.html#post303862

defiancex
11-03-2009, 04:51 AM
Just curious, but does your guild still use this strategy Darksend?

Jakeoman
12-06-2009, 07:18 PM
Yeah... i need some help. 10man TOGC we have tried ever method thats out there and we cant seem to get past the light vortex... we have the whole raid but 2 ranged pick up dark and the orbs are no problem. When light vortex goes off our pally tank pops Divine Sacrifice on the raid and then he just dies... We have strong healers but there seems no way to heal him at all... and what is Shadow aura aura mastery

Wars
12-06-2009, 07:28 PM
Your tank should have zero problem living through a vortex on 10man provided he has sufficient gear to tank anything up to that point. He is remaining dark for the vortex correct?

Ok I just got what you are saying:

Everyone needs to get light during the light vortex. The paladin is going to be taking damage for you guys during that. That can not happen! Everyone minus the tank changes to the same color as the vortex. The tank pops a shield wall/CD and lives through the vortex. That's it. If people can't switch then you have zero chance of passing this encounter.

Jakeoman
12-07-2009, 06:30 PM
thx a bunch

Seerg
12-14-2009, 12:29 PM
Is this strategy still viable after 3.3 patch? Specifically because of the paladin's Divine Sacrifice nerf, that now isnt worth as much anymore?

Frostmizer
12-15-2009, 07:54 AM
Do either of the twins gain any new abilities by absorbing orbs?