View Full Version : Help whats wrong ??
09-10-2009, 07:02 AM
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Caelestrasz&n=Slurloin)
what is wrong here ... i am dropping like a stone in Normal mode TOC ... and most instances .. i feel i have made the right gear choices and the right enchants and have very good stats ... even compared to tanks in guild progressing nicely through heroic modes
i have no idea whats going on here i feel like a clothy seriously ...
fully raid buffed i have just under 50k hp and almost 30% dodge my threat is fine .. pulling like 8k tps, im not doing stupid stuff like taking unnecessary dmg im using my cd's and trinkets and indestructible potions.
I just don't understand whats going on here im getting minced with no rational explanation
Your gear seems fine, so my suspicion would be either slow-reacting healers or things like not tank swapping quick enough of Gordok's Impale, Korolon's Crunch Armor and that kind of thing. I can't see any reason why you'd be squishy at all really (your gear is better than mine and I do okay, although I am a Paladin) so I can only think that your healers aren't getting to you quick enough or are going OOM or something. /shrug
Well looking at your gear, everything looks in order. Your at or maybe slightly better geared than myself and I have no issues at all unless the healer totally falls asleep or I make a bone headed pull.
You say ToC and other instances, I'm assuming you mean 5 mans? But even in 10man ToC on normal you should have no issues at all.
At your gear level, without knowing anymore details or seeing a WWS report it's kind of hard to say, but I'd lean towards bad healing. Provided your group is decently geared and not total idiots you should roll just about anything in the current content.
09-10-2009, 07:21 AM
Yeah, we are just speculating without a post of some logs. Try gathering one for us to browse. In the meanwhile, if it's a guild run, tell us rough raid composition (class/spec).
8k threat is great, your threat stats are not too bad. Your health pool is more than sufficient for job, and your avoidance/mitigation looks OK. You can't do much more in the avoidance department due to DR.
Based on gear drops (lucky bastard) he means Reg ToC 25. If anybody is having troubles with reg toc 5 man in his gear I would ridicule them right off the boards (and ask them to return their ebay account).
09-10-2009, 07:23 AM
i was talking about 25 man toc normal .. i did say instance .. i ment raid soz ... ive been thinking healers to ... i just cant wrap my head around it
09-10-2009, 07:26 AM
*slaps the beef haunch* Raid composition man! Don't beat yourself up, we don't think its you! Unless you are standing in the fire/poison/etc.
ToC-25 can be a bit horrendous if you get a Snobold on you and a slow-to-taunt OT as three stacks begins to hurt a lot - get a Paladin to bubble you if you get more than two at any point and have a "/cancelaura Divine Protection" macro for switching it off.
But yeah, my best guess is going to have to be either insufficient healing or DPS that's low enough to mean the healers are beginning to have trouble. I just can't see from your gear how it could be you because if you're doing 8k sustained TPS then you're also playing your class right...
Knowing your raid composition will help though, as they others have said. Things like Judgements of the Just, Vindictation / Demo Shout, Disarm and Stoneskin Totem all help your survivability a lot and you miss them when they're gone.
09-10-2009, 08:06 AM
our healers are pulling quite large hps 3-4k hps (is that good compared to the healers in your guilds ? or bad ) ... next raid ima check the actual hps on myself compared to others in the raid and try and find the problem ... tbh i think they assume because of my gear that i can live forever and don't need to be healed maybe ?? who knows
09-10-2009, 08:23 AM
1) Heal meters are relatively irrelevant, it's not like DPS charts. Yes, 3-4k looks nice, but if it is high overhealing then it could be 1-2k effective. Clearly, if you are getting crunched, there is something in healing strategy that could be tweaked given that they can push out alot of heals. Maybe they are healing themselves out of mana in 3 seconds flat? Once you are sucking mana vapours some of the regen abilities come with healing penalties (divine hymn and divine plea come to mind)
2) Speaking as a healer, I've had well geared tanks go down on my watch, not because they aren't healable, but because the DPS are so epeen focused they don't take any measures to survive and a healer has to step in or risk losing all the DPS. They don't understand that dead DPS = no DPS. Some of this can be masked by great healers just pushing out insane raid heals at unnecessary rates at lower content, but when as a raid you are at the limits of your capabilities, these stupidities become evident. As a tank, if you notice your raid constantly losing health large amounts of health and you are going down, it's because the healers are trying to keep everybody alive. Simply letting the stupid DPS die doesn't always work, because tanks and healers alone cannot always down a boss in time.
3) If your DPS is low but your tanks and healers are great, as a team the tanks and healers cannot last long enough to wait for slow DPS to overcome a boss. If 90% of the DPS is not doing at least 4k DPS average, that's a problem for ToC 25. Some variation is ok, since people get hit by snobolds, have to stop to remove poison Debuff, scrambling out of charge means no DPS, etc.
09-10-2009, 08:32 AM
I'm not as well geared as you, but I can tank mobs like Gormok, etc. so you should have no problem... although the 8k threat may actually be a detriment in a fight like Gormok, where you have to trade aggro. There've been a few times I've gone down hard and fast because I wasn't watching my aggro close enough and Deep Wounds/Shield Slam crits pulled aggro back onto me while the healers were focused elsewhere... If you're having trouble on Gormok or another boss fight with tank swapping, you may want to stop dpsing when you're not primary target and simply wait for your taunt time to reapply your attacks. As for bosses where you're simply main tanking it... no idea. Probably, as others have suggested, a problem elsewhere in the raid. Tanks are tough, but "tough" means you can take two or three hits from a raid boss before you die.
09-10-2009, 08:35 AM
I've been tanking as a warrior for years. I've successfully tanked all of BC including sunwell pre-3.0, and all current hardmode content except anub25. I have always prided myself as being a very durable tank. Healers used to tell me how much easier I was to heal compared to other top-end warriors and even feral druids in sunwell. During Ulduar progression, I never even noticed a difference between myself and equally-geared DKs (except for their ability to use 1min cooldowns to cheese some fights). Ever since 3.2 tho, healers are always commenting on how squishy I am compared to our paladin tank on just about every fight. I don't know if you are comparing yourself to other tanks or not (or if your healers are), but if you are tanking side-by-side with an equally-geared paladin you ARE squishy in comparison. Sad but true.
Ride it out and pray to the wow Gods that they buff protection warriors for Icecrown.
Btw, if you AREN'T tanking alongside a paladin, try specing into imp demo shout. It makes a big difference. For ToC hardmodes, I'd also suggest using stam on your shoulders and gloves. Pushing hp to the absolute maximum (40k is a good goal for starters) seems to help a lot, and I've tried quite a few different setups in there already.
09-10-2009, 08:53 AM
I just reread your post and noticed you said NORMAL ToC..... If you are honestly dying that easily on normal mode with your gear, either you are tanking with your back to the boss (which I'm sure you aren't) or your healers are not healing you properly and/or your raid is not keeping debuffs (and buffs on you) up properly. There is absolutely no reason you should be dying on normal ToC with your gear.
09-10-2009, 10:14 AM
Logs or what boss/how/where exactly are you dropping will help surely.
Are you trying to solo tank gormok? How many stack are you switching?
If you tell more of a story maybe we can help out better.
09-10-2009, 04:47 PM
yes it is normal toc 25 i am getting crunched on, after reading some of what u guys are saying these are all things i have suggested to healers and dps ... this has gotten so bad i have actually called a guild meeting to discus this matter constructively, a few of my deaths are on gormok but a lot of them are just on random stuff ... like last night in 10 man toc normal i dropped like a stone tanking dreadscale when he was enraged .. yes he does extra dmg then but surly not enough to hurt me that much ...
but after reading what u guys are saying im quite sure those are quite a few of the factors that might be in play here
we are always swapping gormok at 2 or 3 stacks .. depending on what happens in the set of those stacks (ie a taunt resist, snowbolds on a tank things like that) hopefully the guild meeting will produce good results.
also after some of your advice i have informed our healers that i will now be checking hps on individual players to find out who is soaking up my precious heals ... if there is any mod that does this very well id appreciate some one letting me know :)