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Ciderhelm
09-05-2009, 10:46 PM
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Hello and welcome to the TankSpot Crusader's Coliseum raid guide! My name is Aliena and in this video I'll go over the strategy we use for the heroic 25-man version of Northrend Beasts, the first encounter in the heroic Trial of the Crusader raid instance.
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In the heroic Northrend Beasts encounter you won't be faced with any brandnew abilities, but are instead presented with a very tight enrage timer of approximately 520 seconds or 8.7 minutes as well as hefty damage increases. Additionally, every mob in the encounter including snobolds gain around 30% more health.

You fight the same enemies as on normal mode in all three phases, but while a new enemy only appears after you defeat the last one on normal mode, they're on a set spawn timer in the heroic version. Approximately 150 seconds after engaging the event, Acidmaw and Dreadscale will spawn, and 340 seconds after engaging the event, Icehowl joins the fight. This is a very tight time limit and you may have to be prepared to pick up new incoming enemies while finishing off the prior beast.

First, let's talk about the changes to the Gormok portion of the encounter. The most dangerous part about Gormok is the extreme amount of tank damage he deals. He will use his Impale ability every 10 seconds on the highest threat target. Impale now deals 150% weapon damage and puts a 5k bleed on the target that ticks every 2 seconds for 45 seconds. This effect stacks and it's highly dangerous to have tanks take more than 2 stacks of the debuff. To avoid incredible spike damage, it's advised to use a three tank rotation with a new tank taunting every 29 seconds.

Alternatively, it's doable to take two tanks, have them take three stacks and use blessing of protection on them after the other one taunts. This gives you room to take another DPS class, but greatly increases chances of tank deaths.

Finding a way to reliably deal with impale stacks is the most important part about phase 1. Killing snobolds as quickly as possible is also of utmost importance. They effectively prevent any caster they attach to from casting any non-instant spell and you won't really have any extra time to kill them on the phase change, so getting rid of them as they spawn seems the smartest way to deal with them.

Lastly, staggering stomp now hits for approximately 12000 damage instead of 9000 and the snobold's fire bombs deal 8000 damage per second instead of 6000 and will additionally place a dot on you that ticks for 2000 every 2 seconds for 20 seconds.

After 150 seconds, Acidmaw and Dreadscale will join the fight. Have tanks ready to pick them up even if you're still working on Gormok. The same general buffs apply to those two, and with the tight enrage timer it's important that this phase is executed correctly and you don't lose any raid members.

Your raid needs to make sure never to stand in front of a worm - their frontal abilities hit a lot harder and can easily mean a death especially for a caster. To properly minimize damage and chaos from paralytic toxin and burning bile, it's advised that every raid member pulls up their range frame and stays 10 yards away from everyone else. Both paralytic and burning spray inflict around 15000 damage in the heroic version and the worst thing that can happen in this phase is either debuff spreading to multiple people. Make sure to always keep track of where a person with burning bile is in case you get hit by the toxin and quickly move towards them as to not get completely paralyzed and die to the stacking debuff.

The slime pools have their damage upped from 7000 to 9500 damage per second to anyone standing in it. This is especially dangerous for melee, no one can afford to take more than 2 ticks at all. They also stay up for a minute instead of 45 seconds, which means they end up covering more room so try to move around them. As always, you want to kill Acidmaw before Dreadscale. Once Acidmaw dies, Dreadscale enrages and his debuffs get more menacing, but he should die quickly. As in the last phase, have a tank ready to pick up Icehowl if you're lagging behind on DPS a bit. He'll join the fight approximately 340 seconds in.

The biggest change to the Icehowl phase is that you no longer gain a speed buff after he uses Massive Crash. If he focuses you or a raid member close to you, plan your fastest escape route (make sure no pillar is near you) and start moving as soon as possible. It's of utmost importance that Icehowl never hits a raid member, because his Frothing Rage cannot be tranquilized on heroic mode and you will need the increased damage he takes to beat the enrage timer.

Other than that, Whirl now deals 14k damage instead of 10k, Arctic Breath inflicts 30000 unmitigated damage instead of 20000, and Ferocious Butt had its unmitigated damage upped to 90000. Use cooldowns as you see fit on this. Ranged DPS have to keep their distance to Icehowl so they don't get caught in whirl and lose valuable DPS time.

I can't stress enough that the timer is very tight, so use every trick in the book to maximize raid DPS and most importantly, don't die! That about covers the heroic changes to the Northrend Beasts.

Thanks for watching this movie! As always, feel free to ask questions or add suggestions either on YouTube or in the strategy thread on TankSpot.com. Also, TankSpot Donors can download all of these movies in High Definition directly from our servers -- so if you'd like to learn more about that, justclick the second link in the movie information box!


Hi, I'm Lore from Tankspot, and this is a short addendum video to our Northrend Beasts guide. I'll be explaining an alternative to the normal taunt rotation that helps minimize instant tank deaths in Phase 1 due to Gormok's Impale ability.

This strategy calls for two tanks trading back and forth, and two Paladins for Hand of Protection. If one of your tanks is a Paladin, a second Paladin is not needed.

You should begin with your best-geared tank on Gormok, who will hold him until 3 stacks of the Impale debuff. Positioning of the tanks as well as the rest of the raid is done exactly as normal. The only changes with this strategy involve specifically when taunts, cooldowns, and Hands of Protection are used.

Once the first tank has taken 3 stacks of Impale, the second tank taunts. This tank will hold Gormok for 4 Impales. By now, Gormok will have started to stack his Rising Anger buff to increase his damage. Minor cooldowns such as trinkets or Last Stand can be used here to help lower the chances of an instant kill. Try to time them so that they're still active when the 4th Impale lands. He Impales every 10 seconds, so for example a 20-second trinket could be used shortly after the 2nd Impale and still be active for the 4th one.

After the 4th Impale, the first tank's 3-stack will be just about to fall off, so he taunts Gormok back. The second tank gets a Hand of Protection, or in this case uses Divine Shield, to clear his 4-stack, letting the healers focus entirely on the first tank. Gormok's Rising Anger will have several stacks by this point, so the first tank should be ready to use trinkets and minor cooldowns. He'll be taking a total of 3 Impales before the second tank taunts again.

When the second tank taunts again, he should immediately use a major cooldown such as Shield Wall or Icebound Fortitude if possible. Paladins will be unable to use Divine Protection due to Forbearance, and instead must rely on Ardent Defender or an external cooldown. The first tank should get a Hand of Protection to clear his 3-stack, and remove it with a cancelaura macro, because the second tank will only be taking one Impale before the first tank taunts Gormok back again.

By this point, Gormok should hopefully only be able to get one or two more Impales out before he is defeated. The first tank should use a major cooldown also, and if possible, he should try to time it to still be active in case a second Impale lands. There's only a window of a couple seconds in which this is possible, so it will be tricky.

Using this strategy greatly reduces the chances of an instant tank death due to Gormok's Impale and melee swings landing too closely together. Both tanks will have small Impale stacks going into Phase 2, but those shouldn't be too difficult to heal through, and external cooldowns can be used to help. For more information, including our full 25-man strategy, check the Project Marmot forums at Tankspot.com. As always, if you're watching this on Youtube, just follow the link in the movie details. Good luck!

Rafus
09-06-2009, 01:13 AM
yeah, another video by Aliena. love her ;)

Coldknight
09-06-2009, 10:46 AM
Ok i have said this befor if you find this useful but the best way to prevent whirling strike is have the tank get his back against the wall while he tanks icehowl. This way he will not be knocked back and icehowl will never get a chance to hit range.

Magnuss
09-06-2009, 10:51 AM
Ok i have said this befor if you find this useful but the best way to prevent whirling strike is have the tank get his back against the wall while he tanks icehowl. This way he will not be knocked back and icehowl will never get a chance to hit range.

In order to maximize DPS time I put his back to the wall and made sure that all melee were pushed right against the wall and attacking. As a warrior tank I can charge back in him when knocked back and reposition if necessary, but this allows melee to go full on for the longest duration possible. It made the difference between low health enrages and a slaughtering kill.

Bohuslav
09-06-2009, 04:17 PM
Thank you for this video Aliena. I am just wondering if it is possible to avoid getting the paralytic toxin altogether. I have noticed that due to the increased damage, it is extremely hard to run close enough to the Dreadscale tank to drop the debuff without dying in the process. I have a terrible time with this problem due to the distance that I must maintain from other raid members, and I have died while running toward the tank (who has also died because I was running and not healing). As a resto shaman I must remain still long enough to cast my bigger spells so if it is possible to just avoid the toxin in the first place that would be amazing.

Kazeyonoma
09-06-2009, 04:51 PM
tried this in 10 man, and wiped at 4% it is VERY tight in terms of enrage timer.

Magnuss
09-06-2009, 04:54 PM
Thank you for this video Aliena. I am just wondering if it is possible to avoid getting the paralytic toxin altogether. I have noticed that due to the increased damage, it is extremely hard to run close enough to the Dreadscale tank to drop the debuff without dying in the process. I have a terrible time with this problem due to the distance that I must maintain from other raid members, and I have died while running toward the tank (who has also died because I was running and not healing). As a resto shaman I must remain still long enough to cast my bigger spells so if it is possible to just avoid the toxin in the first place that would be amazing.

Getting toxin on someone who is far from the tank can happen quite a bit and they wont make it to the tank in time. When this happens the only person who can fix it is the tank. The flame breath has a cooldown before he will use it a second time so when you realize you are not going to make it then the tank can wait for a new flame to hit him and move VERY quickly over to you (preferably not blowing up the raid with fire as he/she does so) and free you and then get the worm into a safe position/direction before the next breath.

Coldknight
09-07-2009, 12:02 AM
In order to maximize DPS time I put his back to the wall and made sure that all melee were pushed right against the wall and attacking. As a warrior tank I can charge back in him when knocked back and reposition if necessary, but this allows melee to go full on for the longest duration possible. It made the difference between low health enrages and a slaughtering kill.

Still your still having raid member to the wall. While tankspot is just putting him in the center which would be very annoying for people to keep running back towards him.

Alkaholiek
09-07-2009, 02:06 AM
Hey, I was wondering how you deal with the stacking buff on Gormok from the snobols? It seems to be a huge problem for us and we just can't heal it trough. Had the same in 10 man but after we luckely got trough phase 1 we didn't had any real problems.

So I was wondering if there is any way to remove the buff.

Also keep up the good work and thanks in advance,

Alka

Splug
09-07-2009, 01:51 PM
Hey, I was wondering how you deal with the stacking buff on Gormok from the snobols? It seems to be a huge problem for us and we just can't heal it trough. Had the same in 10 man but after we luckely got trough phase 1 we didn't had any real problems.

So I was wondering if there is any way to remove the buff.

Also keep up the good work and thanks in advance,

AlkaThe stacking enrage on Gormok is an unavoidable part of the encounter. You cannot avoid the stacks from mounting by killing him faster as the snowbolds' deploying seems to be health based. He will always build up to four stacks, and you just have to outheal the damage intake. If you are having trouble even with cooldowns being rotated, you may want to review the gear your tanks are using, as well as contemplate adding a healer. For the gear level that has been available up until this week, the encounter is tuned fairly tight both for survival and damage pace. Each week will go a long way to reducing the difficulty via gear income.

-Splug

Holybubi
09-07-2009, 03:28 PM
Been having a lot of trouble with this encounter on 25man.
On 10man it was much more simple for both DPS, healing, positioning wise.
We get P1 with about 1Mil HP left when the worms enter the arena, so we burn him down quickly. We also avoid on DPSing the adds that are on the melee, just keep dots running on them, attacked such as Heart Strike and Cleave will dmg them as well. We finish them off when P2 starts.
The trouble comes on P2, we waste about 10-15 sec trying to find a spot (as ranged) that is in range of the worm and out of range of everyone else.
After everyone are positioned we start getting the poision debuff on several targets, and unless you are about 15 yards from the tank with the fire debuff you will probably be stunned. No matter how fast you react. If a ranged that is about 30 yards of the tank gets it he's dead meat. We tryed using BL to get the worms down before P3 but all the time with positioning and constant moving i really dont see how its possible. Sometimes we get poison debuff without a fire debuff. so there is nothing to do be get stunned. Im really lost here, seen this fight from a Tank POV would be better with all do respect.

Cetyrz
09-07-2009, 07:56 PM
Just a quick question for those that may be able to help. My guild currently only runs 10 man content, we occasionally pick up a 25 man ulduar pug but predominantly only have access to the t8.5 items through tokens or VoA. We cleared the new bosses in ToC when they unlocked every wednesday night (and with exception of the champions) typically have everything down to a 1-2 shot. We don't have much in the way of Ulduar hard mode gear as we are still working on Yogg due to some roster issues. We decided however to go into 10 man TogC this weekend and give it a few go's. We currently have 1 warrior MT, DK OT, 3 Healers (Disc priest, Paladin and a Shaman) 2 rogues, a ret pally, Boomkin lock / hunter depending on who is free (last night we took the boomkin insead of the lock).

We found that even with 2 stacks of impale we were losing tanks fairly quickly, our best attempt was getting to phase 2 but gormok still had 50% health left. Both myself and the other melee classes are currently DPSing the snobolds as it takes quite a while for just two of our ranged to get them down, so resultantly even if we get to phase 2 it's a wipe.

Should we be keeping our melee on gormok at all times and letting the ranged burn down the adds as they pop up?

Also just wanted to point out I don't know if it was hotfixed in normal mode too but Gormok is NOT disarmable in heroic, whereas he was for us in regular last week.

schroey
09-07-2009, 09:20 PM
Hello!

May I inquire the amount of healers you run with for the heroic beasts? I can't find any info about your raid setup for your video and my eyes can't see the grid too well :D

Thank you!

Aliena
09-08-2009, 01:28 AM
We had 6 in that vid. 5 would probably do though.

Meteorius
09-08-2009, 06:39 AM
The stacking enrage on Gormok is an unavoidable part of the encounter. You cannot avoid the stacks from mounting by killing him faster as the snowbolds' deploying seems to be health based. He will always build up to four stacks, and you just have to outheal the damage intake. If you are having trouble even with cooldowns being rotated, you may want to review the gear your tanks are using, as well as contemplate adding a healer. For the gear level that has been available up until this week, the encounter is tuned fairly tight both for survival and damage pace. Each week will go a long way to reducing the difficulty via gear income.

-Splug
My gorup has currently been having issues with 10 man heroic gormak as well. We found that having a warrior and pally tank helps with absorbing the stacking debuff though. The pally starts off the fight, gets 4 stacks then calls for the warrior to taunt. The pally then bubbles and it drops the stacks. When the warrior gets 4 stacks, the Pally taunts and bubbles the warrior dropping his stacks. We still didn't get past him, but it seems to have worked. I also heard that warriors can disarm Gormak as well. Is this a good way to do it? We also had an issue healing, we went in with 2 healers (Priest and Tree), and they are geared and know their stuff, but just couldnt keep up, should we add another healer to the mix or will that mutilate our DPS? Ranged DPS were getting killed quick from the fires, since it kills us in 2 ticks, any way to avoid that other than watching what direction the snobols are tossing the fire?

Meteorius
09-08-2009, 06:50 AM
What would be a great 10 man make up for this? What kind of and how many tanks, what type and how many healers, and any specific DPS classes needed? My group currently runs with a Warrior and Pally Tank, Priest and Druid Healer, and Dps consists of 3 mages, a elemental shaman, a DK, and a shadow priest. Any suggestions on the group make up? :D

swelt
09-08-2009, 06:52 AM
Quite a lot of stuff in one big ramble there Meteorius. Here's a few answers:
- You can't disarm him in heroic mode
- Impale hits harder and harder over the course of the fight because of Rising Anger, the buff gormokk gets when he throws off a snowbold. The dot, while a big factor in tank deaths, is not the only thing you need to be thinking about, but the impale hit itself. Going to 4 stacks is risky, but you can mitigate that risk with good coordination of cooldowns. "whatever works best for you"
- Going with 2 healers is risky in 10 man. If one of them gets a snowbold it's very bad. Going with 3 is a safer option.
- Fire is hot. Don't stand in fire.


We were doing some experimental attempts at heroic 25 man last night (not a good attendance night unfortunately, and the disconnect boss decided to join in too). We found going with 3 tanks we could get a very stable rotation and consistantly get to phase 2 with no tank deaths, but we are worried that the overhead of 3 tanks will screw us over in phase 3.

Meteorius
09-08-2009, 07:01 AM
Yea, sorry for the ramble and tons of questions, lol. I just need to get my group up to speed for this raid and can use all the advice I can get :-D

Blackwolfe
09-08-2009, 11:26 AM
We found going with 3 tanks we could get a very stable rotation and consistantly get to phase 2 with no tank deaths, but we are worried that the overhead of 3 tanks will screw us over in phase 3.

The best way to combat this is to make sure at least one of the three tanks is a DK or Druid (since they can very easily switch from tanking to decent DPS).

sycorax
09-08-2009, 11:28 AM
We've done fairly well on Uld hardmodes 10 and 25, and on toc 10H but for some reason are having a frustrating time on Northrend Beasts H25. We are getting thru gormok using heroism and have no snobolds up when Acidmaw and Dreadscale activate. The first part of the worm fight seems to go pretty well with 6 heals and 3 tanks we just have the tank getting burning bile run the debuff to ppl with toxin. It seems to work okay, although there is some disagreement still with how we do this. (IE is it better to run the aoe thru the raid to clear toxin off people, or should the tank move to a position outside the raid but behind the melee so ppl can still run to him and not have to be infront of the boss to clear their own debuffs?) either way we are mostly fine until the submerge and then everything goes straight to hell.

I believe that ppl just dont know where to be when the worms re-emerge. They dont want to grp up too much and dont want to be infront of the boss, that much we know. Nevertheless it seems like we STILL have ppl clumping up in the transition, and healers unprepared for the tanks to pick their targets back up. Id like to know if there is any predictability to where the worms will re-emerge so that our raid can be more or less in position, spread out and ready to go as soon as possible. Most of the time we have deaths due to mass burning bile, or an immediate tank death upon pick up.

fr0d0b0ls0n
09-08-2009, 10:56 PM
In the 2nd wyrm transition, Dreadscale (burrowed) will come near the center, usually a little to the left. Acidmaw can come near the door of the instance, or the door where the bosses spawn, you'll need a tank in each place.

The 3rd transition is easy, you must have Acidmaw down, so eveyrone can stay at one door (spreaded of course), and the tank at the other side.

And our tanks with burning bile go directly to whoever has the paralityc debuff crossing the raid if needed.

We killed yesterday in enrage, with 7 people alive, our dps is a little low. We needed to heroism in the 2nd wyrm transition...

alannia
09-08-2009, 11:40 PM
Just wondering if you have a screenshot or wws report of the dps done to downing northrend beasts in heroic 25? I read somewhere that the minimum raid dps for this fight is 5k, would that be a good guideline? In our last attempts we were having trouble getting Gormok down before the jormungars come up, because there was always 2-3 people dcing and then getting back online to find themselves dead due to fires. We're also using 3 tanks for gormok. I think we will be trying the strat where the range/healers with snobolds on them need to run and stack on the melee so that everyone can burn down snobolds asap, while leaving the snobolds on melee to get dpsed by cleaves, lb etc. This is so we'll have more dps on Gormok, although this means we might have the problem of having snobolds alive still when the jormungars spawn..

Lazyboy923
09-09-2009, 05:25 AM
Hey, I was just wondering, with the snobolds during Gormok, should all dps hop on them or just ranged. We were attempting this in my guild last night and ran across quite a bit of trouble. We had all melee remain on the boss and ranged go on snobolds, also only had 7 ranged and about 10 melee, All melee were pulling a pretty consistant 6-7k dps, but ranged were doing about 4k due to switching so I'm just wondering if we should try different way. Thanks for the help =] Great video

Aliena
09-09-2009, 06:33 AM
Just wondering if you have a screenshot or wws report of the dps done to downing northrend beasts in heroic 25? I read somewhere that the minimum raid dps for this fight is 5k, would that be a good guideline? In our last attempts we were having trouble getting Gormok down before the jormungars come up, because there was always 2-3 people dcing and then getting back online to find themselves dead due to fires. We're also using 3 tanks for gormok. I think we will be trying the strat where the range/healers with snobolds on them need to run and stack on the melee so that everyone can burn down snobolds asap, while leaving the snobolds on melee to get dpsed by cleaves, lb etc. This is so we'll have more dps on Gormok, although this means we might have the problem of having snobolds alive still when the jormungars spawn..

WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay (http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/7436082#damageout)

Kerg
09-09-2009, 02:50 PM
Just wondering if you have a screenshot or wws report of the dps done to downing northrend beasts in heroic 25? I read somewhere that the minimum raid dps for this fight is 5k, would that be a good guideline? In our last attempts we were having trouble getting Gormok down before the jormungars come up, because there was always 2-3 people dcing and then getting back online to find themselves dead due to fires. We're also using 3 tanks for gormok. I think we will be trying the strat where the range/healers with snobolds on them need to run and stack on the melee so that everyone can burn down snobolds asap, while leaving the snobolds on melee to get dpsed by cleaves, lb etc. This is so we'll have more dps on Gormok, although this means we might have the problem of having snobolds alive still when the jormungars spawn..

I did the math today, and assuming you get 3 charges from Icehowl for 45 sec. of double damage, I calculated that you need a minimum of about 82,000 DPS to down them in 520 seconds. So yeah, assuming you're running with a 3/16/6 setup, you'd need all your dpsers averaging about 5K dps.

In the meter posted above, they have about 90,000 dps.

Kahmal
09-09-2009, 09:28 PM
The major issue my guild seemed to come across was Melee + Burning Bile.

We wiped once because the melee got the Burning Bile and he Swooped instantly after, killing like 7 of us.

And when it doesn't kill us melee....we're not allowed to go back in and DPS the boss till the debuff ticks off...resulting in not having enough time.

ThrallWarrior
09-10-2009, 07:24 AM
We go in with 3 tanks set up, Prot warrior and 2 Prot pally.

Tanks rotation as follow: Prot warrior, Prot pally, Prot pally.
Round One: Prot warrior call for BOP once he get 2 stacks, Prot pally BOP himself after 2 stacks, and same for3rd tank.
-To reduce stress on Healer early into fight

Round Two: we used DS on tanks, and tanks also use SW.

I tend to die alot in round two :(

I don't think my gear is lacking...here is my armory link:
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Thrall&n=Warcheif)

Any tips will be helpful

thx

Holybubi
09-10-2009, 03:06 PM
How can you deal with Burning Bile on the melee? it gets very hectic if 7 people with this debuff are running all around the room trying to not hug each other.

Kahmal
09-10-2009, 06:08 PM
I'm dealing with the same issue there, that and while we're trying not to hug each other we lose good DPS time on the boss.

bludwork
09-10-2009, 08:41 PM
good video but seems a little light on specific details. I think most of us knows what happens (which the video shows) but not how to counter specific abilities

tenhitokiri
09-13-2009, 12:48 PM
Hi there,
Here's a tip we learned on gormak: when a caster gets a snobols they can still cast their usual spells (most of the times) if they force the cobol to lock a different school, so basically a destruction warlock can use drain life when they get a snobold, have their shadow school locks and keep using fire spells, shamans can cast lava burst so they can heal / dps and so on. This actually can help specially when learning the fight.

Btw, can someone confirm / deny if the worm's spit can be spell reflected? it will be another way to negate some damage and get a lil more threat.

Drogo
09-13-2009, 03:11 PM
We seem to have trouble with tanks getting insta gibbed on 25 man heroic when tanking Gormok. We seem to take 2 hits within 1 second dealing 50k - 60k damage.
After looking in my combatlogs i can see that Gormok didnt parry, so it shouldnt be the parry effect that Blizz said they would hotfix.
I dont believe its my gear either as i fully raid buffed is running around with 49k health:
Here is the Armory link: The World of Warcraft Armory (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Aggramar&n=Drogo)

pat
09-13-2009, 07:38 PM
Hello,

first our setup was 6 heal 2 Tanks 17 dps.
We use 1 pala and 1 Druid Tank.

We made Today about 20 trys and only 1 time a tank died on Gormok.
First the Druid Tanks up to 5! Stacks Important is that the druid uses Barkskin(-20% damage for 12 seconds) about 0,5-1 second before the 4th impale so it is still active on the 5th stack.

Then the Paladin taunts and the Druid gets Blessing of protection to remove the stacks.

The Paladin then Tanks to 5 stacks again until the third Stack there is no Problem because Gormok has only 2 to 3 stacks of his +15% damage buff.
The 4. and 5. impale does havy damage and if the paladin doesnt dodge the normal hit or parries it he will geht about 50k to 56k within 0,4 to 0,8 seconds.

The paladin has all hots on him and 2-3 healers try to time a heal with the incomming impale so at least 1 healer catches the half second between impale and the normal hit.

So the risk of death for the paladin on this 2 impales is not so high he can dodge/parry or he gets an heal between the hits and if all fails he has the new Talent Ardent Defender which saves his life 1 time.

After that he gets Blessing of protection and the druid takes 2 impale (again with barkskin yes it is ready again :) and then the paladin 1-2 impale depending on dps.


We avoid the problem with the firedebuff on meeles by splitting the meeles in 4 camps each 2 guys (only when acidmaw is the moving worm):
2 on the left side of acidmaw,
2 on the right side of acidmaw,
2 on the left side of Dreadscale,
2 on the right side of Dreadscale.

We had Icehowl on 7% today

Next time he is dead i hope :)

Since last hotfix Gormok doesnt parry haste anymore, so i swap 2 items with expertise for defense stats if you have no aggro problem and have some of such tankequip switch it.

Khue
09-14-2009, 11:42 AM
We use 2 tanks for the entirety of this fight. Skuj (Pally tank) and myself (Warrior tank) let the stacks from Gorrmak build to 5. At 5 stacks, the other one taunts. Typically we use personal CDs at 4 stacks. I tank first, this means I naturally let my stacks fall off. The pally tanks second, and uses hand of protection after we down Gorrmak to clear his debuff stack. We try not to let there be more then a 10 stack of debuffs divvied out but sometimes we are light on DPS and I have to pick up a second round. This is only a problem if there are no bubbles left going into Acid and Dread and even still, I typically only have 2 stacks left on me.

At the beginning of Acid and Dread, they both spawn in predictable places. Acid is static and spawns to the left while Dread is in motion and spawns to the right/center. Skuj picks up Dread and I jump on Acid. I place my back to the left back wall and when I am kicked I charge back. All DPS is focused on Acid at this time. Melee forms a semi circle around the back side of Acid while range sits 30 yards beyond them forming a little path between the melee and the range. In the event a range or melee gets the debuff, Skuj (who almost always gets burning bile) kites Dread through the trail and then hits the person who has the debuff. In the event I get the debuff distributed by Acid, Skuj kites Dread between myself and the wall behind me. We typically burn Acid down in 1 phase. If we are slow on DPS, we have acid down within 10-15 seconds of his motion phase. Once Acid is down, everyone moves to Dread.

Depending on how the Jormongers ended, the tank without any debuffs grabs the giant monkey. We use bloodlust on the first wall smash and the main tank by default blows a CD, gets Pain Supression, and receives the wings thingy from our holy priest applied just in case someone screws up and gets tagged by his charge. Bloodlust is only used, if he stuns himself.

Holybubi
09-14-2009, 04:18 PM
Finally got the bastards down today. 3 Tanks, 6 Healers, 16 DPS.
P1, Tank get 2 stacks. People with Adds run to melee, melee (excluding Kitty and retri) dps the adds down.
P2, Acidmaw got 2 tanks, when one get the poison the other taunts. Then the tank moves as close as possible to someone with the Fire debuff.
Melee spread into 4 groups of 2, 2 groups on each worm, Ranged kept distance as much as possible. Having max 1 player in their 10yard range.
We got into P3 with about 2Mil HP left on the worm. Tank picked up Ice howl and placed him in the middle while we were nuking down the worm.
After that its pretty straight forward, Used blood lust on the first stun and got him down couple of seconds away from his enrage timer.

Boneshield
09-14-2009, 11:06 PM
My guild has been running normal for a while now and have now started hard mode attempts. A few things we've found a few mechanics that might aid you in the fight.

In the fight against Gormok, you can spot the fire bombs as they travel through air, somewhat similar to General Vezax's shadow crash. They pop off from Gormok's back and then land on the player which gives that player a chance to dodge it before it lands.

Also, while the snowbolds cannot be taunted, they can be agroed by a tank if they pick up enough threat and are in range of the snowbold's melee. This means that the tank that is waiting for his impale stacks to wear off can find these snowbolds and pick up agro to stop them from interrupting any casters. The damage from impale is fairly predictable and the snowbold's melee is pathetic against a geared tank, but the tank needs to make sure he can get back to taunt gormok for the tank rotation. (fyi, if you are a prot warrior the snowbolds can not be charged)

Its a good idea to have a handful of DPS to be specificly on the snowbolds with target macros in order to increase DPS.

I hope this helps.

Ciderhelm
09-16-2009, 07:59 AM
Lore created an addendum for the encounter which offers a way our guilds have been successful using two tanks instead of three. It's embedded now (and will be downloadable shortly).

swelt
09-16-2009, 08:12 AM
So to summarize the addendum:
tank 1: 3 impales (No CDs)
tank 2: 4 impales then bop (minor CDs)
tank 1: 3 impales then bop (minor CDs)
tank 2: 1 impale only (major CD)
tank 1: 1 or 2 impales (major CD)

Is that right?

Ciderhelm
09-16-2009, 08:15 AM
So to summarize the addendum:
tank 1: 3 impales (No CDs)
tank 2: 4 impales then bop (minor CDs)
tank 1: 3 impales then bop (minor CDs)
tank 2: 1 impale only (major CD)
tank 1: 1 or 2 impales (major CD)

Is that right?
Precisely. It's very convenient.

Murdog
09-16-2009, 01:52 PM
So to summarize the addendum:
tank 1: 3 impales (No CDs)
tank 2: 4 impales then bop (minor CDs)
tank 1: 3 impales then bop (minor CDs)
tank 2: 1 impale only (major CD)
tank 1: 1 or 2 impales (major CD)

Is that right?

Depending on gear you can use a rotation as such which our guild has used the last 2 weeks.

We use a Paladin and Warrior (Myself).

Tank 1 (Paladin): 3 Impales (No CDs)

Tank 2 (Warrior): 6 Impales - Impale 1: No CD
- Impale 2: Use both Stam and Dodge Trinket
- Impale 3: Both trinkets will still be active Use Last Stand
- Impale 4: Last Stand is still active i get a GS or PS Depending on what spec our priest's are.
- Impale 5-6: Right before the 5th stack of impale i use unglyphed SW and that stays active upto just after the 6th stack in which the pally taunts immediately and i get a BoP, Clearing my stacks.

Tank 1 (Paladin): 3-4 Impales: Paladin tanks using outside CD's (Sacrafices, PS's and or GS's) in turn with havign AD availiable he can easilly tank gormok till dead.

Our paladin usually only aquires about a 4 stack max usually in turn he will BoP off after Gormok's death leaving both tanks free of DoT's which will help your healers mana immensely

Zuvassin
09-16-2009, 02:00 PM
With 2 tanks, do you then range tank Acidmaw with all DPS on Acidmaw (What classes work best? Warlock or hunter?). Also, do you have all rogues and hunters MD/TotT that target so they are able to keep threat while still popping Bloodlust. I know some guilds do it during Icehowl, but the few times we get to the worms, the poison debuff kicks our ass even if we stay spread out so our strat so far has been to burn down Acidmaw as fast as possible.

Thanks :)

Murdog
09-16-2009, 02:05 PM
We use 2 tanks on the moving worm at all times till Acidmaw is dead then we switch and have one tank take care of stationary Dread and one tank take care of moving Dread (Mainly due to the fact that the tank on moving dread will get burning bile and in turn will hit melee and others if he tanks stationary Dread afterwards)

bludwork
09-16-2009, 03:36 PM
So to summarize the addendum:
tank 1: 3 impales (No CDs)
tank 2: 4 impales then bop (minor CDs)
tank 1: 3 impales then bop (minor CDs)
tank 2: 1 impale only (major CD)
tank 1: 1 or 2 impales (major CD)

Is that right?

according to the addendum yes but please note, the maximum listed here is 13 impales. If he goes the full 150sec duration that's 15 impales. If your raid dps isn't high enough you might have to rely on external cooldowns towards the end.

Faction
09-16-2009, 04:58 PM
We use three tanks, but our feral (me) went in with a hybrid spec. We do a tank swap every 2 impales. I use my cool downs when I tank it for the second time (Impales 11 and 12) and then get a BoP. With smart gear/spec choices I can do twice the damage of a Pally/Warrior/DK tank on Gormok.

This allows for more control in phase 2 because you don't have to worry about a ranged tank getting aggro and can hero the second Acidmaw comes out. Also, since Icehowl is no longer taunt immune, there is some benefit there too.

More importantly though, debuff management needs to be perfect for smooth kills on the encounter. Fully talented Demo Shout/Vindication and Thunderclap/Judgement along with Scorpid Sting/Insect Swarm need to be up. Also, making sure the tank next in line to taunt has Inspiration/Ancestral Fortitude before he does so is key as well. Having both Improved devotion Aura and Improved Stoneskin totem helps as well. These things sound easy enough, but I bet a lot of the people who find Gormok hard forget something from the above checklist. While we still wiped like noobs to Icehowl enrages because people cant move, we had maybe 1-2 wipes due to tank deaths while learning this.

Trondhjem
09-17-2009, 06:47 AM
Actually we did it in our 10man raid like that:

lower geared tank takes 1 impale
better geared tank takes 5 stacks while using shieldwall when stack 3 is around 21s. after the 5th he gets bubbled
first tank again takes 3 stacks and gets bubbled
second one takes 1 impale
first one taunts again and gets 1 impale as well.

done

Eetabeetay
09-17-2009, 07:27 AM
My guild uses this tank rotation:

Tank 1: 5 stacks
@37s remaining on 1st impale stack hit heart of iron or royal seal of king llane
a trinket will last through 2 stacks.
@ 37s remaining on 3rd stack hit LS
it will last through the remaining 4th and 5th stacks

Tank 2: 4 stacks
Trinket off the bat
@ 36s remaining on 2nd stack hit SW (also pop a 2nd trinket here if you have one)
shield wall should last through the last 2 remaining stacks


Tank 1: 3-4 stacks
Trinket off the bat
Judge how long till gormok dies and time SW to last to the end of the fight.

Notes:
Tanks can double pot with Indestructible potions. If you have dbm, use the Next Boss timer and pop ur first pot @ 2:31. Pain sup can also be used wherever in this rotation that you see fit. Tank 2 will pick up dreadscale and Tank 1 will need a BoP at the end of P1.

Lore
09-17-2009, 09:41 AM
according to the addendum yes but please note, the maximum listed here is 13 impales. If he goes the full 150sec duration that's 15 impales. If your raid dps isn't high enough you might have to rely on external cooldowns towards the end.

There's an absolute maximum of 14 impales before the two worms start eating your raid, and if it's taking you that long to kill Gormok you're not going to make it through Icehowl anyway :)

Horacio
09-17-2009, 12:00 PM
This thread has been helpful in getting a better idea of what's going on but I am uncertain as to whether or not we possess the necassary firepower to get it done. We currently run 3 tanks with 6 healers and generally lose one tank somwhere in there on Gomok but the best we've gotten is 25% when the worms appear.

I made the suggestion today that we really get down on it with rotating cooldowns (Pain Supression/Guardian Spirit, Shield Wall, Last Stand, etc) Moving to 2 tanks seems awfully risky but....that said, having our pally tank go ret isn't going to produce the needed 25% more health to remove.

Last night I got nailed, through Last Stand (61,000hp) in .4 seconds......eww. But aside from that, we are not far off making it through with tanks still alive. I think we just need to confer with the healers and come up with a plan. At that point....we just have to pull out some more DPS.

feji
09-17-2009, 02:45 PM
Not sure if it's been clearly pointed out yet, but Gormok gains a stack of Rising Anger each time a Snobold comes out. On Heroic 25 man, only 4 Snobolds will come out. The timetable looks like this :
00s : Gormok Active
10s : Impale 1
20s : Impale 2
24s : Rising Anger 1
30s : Impale 3
40s : Impale 4
44s : Rising Anger 2
50s : Impale 5
60s : Impale 6
64s : Rising Anger 3
70s : Impale 7
80s : Impale 8
84s : rising Anger 4 (final)
90s : Impale 9
100s : Impale 10
110s : Impale 11
120s : Impale 12
130s : Impale 13
140s : Impale 14
150s : Impale 15

At 4 stacks of Rising Anger, any tank will be in danger of getting combo'd to death within 1 second by a melee swing+impale (from my experiences, I've seen a 27k melee swing max, and a 30k impale direct damage @ 4xRising Anger). We tank swap every 4 stacks, so I don't know how the 2nd tank manages his cooldowns while he tanks. I do not use any cooldowns for the first 4 impales, since Gormok only has 1 stack of Rising Anger at that point. For the 9th-12th Impales, I usually take the 9th Impale without any cooldowns, use Last Stand on the 10th+11th Impale, and Shield Wall on the 12th+13th Impale (if needed). however, I did get gibbed on the 11th Impale once by a 30k Impale + 15k Impale tick + 25k Melee swing, over a period of 1 second (I'm at about 65k HP with Last Stand active). Healing early on is not an issue, so use bubbles on the 2nd and 3rd tank transition; this also lets us enter the worm phase with minimal Impale's rolling on tanks.

For the worms, I think it's handy to have people realize that :
1) the worms alternate their stationary/mobile state every burrow.
2) the mobile worm will ALWAYS do it's special ability on it's tank/primary agro
3) the stationary worm will ALWAYS target a random person to do it's random ability
4) the mobile worm is the only one who will do it's breath attack, while the stationary worm is the only one that will do it's Sweep (15yard knockback)

So basically, the stationary worm can be faced any way, but people should be atleast 15 yards away from it to avoid getting knocked back. When Dreadscale is mobile, toxin people have to move towards the Dreadscale tank, and the Dreadscale tank can move around inbetween Molten Spews (there's 15-20 seconds inbetween each breath attack). When Acidmaw is mobile, burning bile people have to move to the Acidmaw tank to get his toxin off.

Krete
09-17-2009, 02:57 PM
Actually we did it in our 10man raid like that:

lower geared tank takes 1 impale
better geared tank takes 5 stacks while using shieldwall when stack 3 is around 21s. after the 5th he gets bubbled
first tank again takes 3 stacks and gets bubbled
second one takes 1 impale
first one taunts again and gets 1 impale as well.

done

This is how we were looking at doing it as well. We're in 10 man only gear, so our major concerns are a) can we survive (pally and warrior at ~45k buffed) b) can we 2-heal it c) can our 10 man only geared dps take them down quick enough. My gut feeling is that we'd have to 3 heal it, and with only 5 dps we wouldn't be fast enough. I think we're going to give it a try tonight. Just curious about your group setup and average gear level.

Andenthal
09-17-2009, 05:31 PM
Krete:
10 man is designed to be done in 232 gear. If you're still wearing a lot of 219 from Ulduar you might have a rough time. Otherwise according to Blizz, you're geared enough for it.

Crystalhaze
09-17-2009, 08:01 PM
my guild actually does a little different rotation to combat the debuffs. I don't know if it is intended, so it might get changed, but we have the first tank get 2 stacks of impale, and when the debuff is at 23sec left or so, the second tank taunts. The first tank taunts again when he has about 3 seconds left on his 2 stacks. Don't worry! You will not get a third stack! I have found that the 10 second internal cd on the impale will reset when he switches tanks. So the first tank will be tanking for 3 seconds with 2 stacks, 7 without any stacks, and then the process starts over again. Second tank taunts when there is around 3 seconds left on his 2 stacks of impale.

Another way to time it is to watch the main tank's stacks at the time. When there is 23seconds left on his 2 stacks of impale, the other tank taunts.

I for one think this might not be working as intended and could be hot fixed. So if for some reason in the future this strat no longer works, it got fixed. For now, it has worked the past several weeks in 10m for us.

Krete
09-17-2009, 08:53 PM
Krete:
10 man is designed to be done in 232 gear. If you're still wearing a lot of 219 from Ulduar you might have a rough time. Otherwise according to Blizz, you're geared enough for it.

Thanks, we've been clearing the Coliseum every week, but I'd say we're as a group 40% geared in 232 or higher (a few of us have picked up the 245 shouders), the rest is 219 with a little t8.5 sprinkled in. I feel a little better about the dps situation after tonight. We tried IC hard mode for the first time. It took 3 tries to get it right, but on the successful attempt our 5 dps took him down with the 2nd tank having about 30 seconds left on his debuff. I know its not a straight comparison with the impaler, but it made me think we may have a shot at it as far as dps is concerned.

Mr.Winkle
09-18-2009, 02:09 AM
Tried 10man HC lastnight, initally i was worried that our DPS might be a little low but actually we found we had much bigger troubles with keeping the tanks alive.

Initally tried 2 healing it and that's just a big no-no for us atm, although pally/shammy is a good combo for hps if you get a snowbold on a healer you're in trouble, 3 healers seems more sensible.

Trondhjem
09-18-2009, 03:43 AM
Source: Krete
This is how we were looking at doing it as well. We're in 10 man only gear, so our major concerns are a) can we survive (pally and warrior at ~45k buffed) b) can we 2-heal it c) can our 10 man only geared dps take them down quick enough. My gut feeling is that we'd have to 3 heal it, and with only 5 dps we wouldn't be fast enough. I think we're going to give it a try tonight. Just curious about your group setup and average gear level.We did it quite easily with a holy paladin and a priest, next ID with a holy paladin and a resto druid. I dont think you have to manage this with 2 healers since the damage should suffice with 3 as well

Actually we had only one melee (besides 2 tanks ofc) in our setup, so the damage through Staggering Stomp wasn't much of a threat.
Last but not least, we were Ulduar25 (226) geared.

Deathstryke
09-18-2009, 03:48 PM
So, to be clear, all dps focuses down snobolds on Gormok? Or does ranged stay on the boss?

On the Jormungar's, does all dps focus down Acidmaw and then focus down Dreadscale? Or is dps split, with just more on Acidmaw so that he goes down quicker?

Crystalhaze
09-18-2009, 04:18 PM
So, to be clear, all dps focuses down snobolds on Gormok? Or does ranged stay on the boss?

On the Jormungar's, does all dps focus down Acidmaw and then focus down Dreadscale? Or is dps split, with just more on Acidmaw so that he goes down quicker?

My guild has only done it once on 10m hard mode. If you have enough ranged (3 or more) you can put them on the monkeys and have melee stay on boss. If a monkey gets onto a melee, you can have everyone switch to it since there is no run down time. Sometimes it can get hairy if a ranged dps gets a monkey and you start to get behind, but I have found this works best.

For the Jormungar's, we still burn down Acidmaw first then Dreadscale. We had our best tank on Acidmaw first while he gets burned down (for higher tps, the other tank couldn't hold it) and then had that tank go pick up dreadscale and just cycle cooldowns. I tanked it (feral druid) and just cycled through like so: barkskin, surv inst + trinket, pain suppression, barkskin again, and frenzied regen. By that time, he was dead.

Hope this helps.

Vetrosian
09-21-2009, 09:29 AM
Krete, as another 10 man raider that recently downed this I can tell you our biggest struggle was keeping tanks alive, I cannot see this being possible with 2 healers as bad luck with snobalds or fires will mean one can't heal and you're looking at a dead tank.

Our dps tended to average 4k+, casters a bit lower due to snobalds most people in 219 gear with a few bits of 226 from Ulduar hard modes and any 232 loot from our normal mode Toc clears.

We found it best to have all dps switch to snobalds as every snobald out either gimped a healer (potential deaths) or a dps (this is a dps race) once the 4th snobald launched people started using CDs before to burn that last one and Gormok down and to survive his blows until then.

With 5 dps it is doable, but it'll depend heavily on player skill/gear, buff synergies and maybe a little luck.

For the worms, we had ranged on Acidmaw at all times, melee on the mobile one, when Acidmaw became mobile we used CDs + Hero. Also had a ranged tank the rooted one and both tanks on the mobile one so they could swap and go help cure people.

Meloree
09-21-2009, 12:10 PM
We currently run 3 tanks with 6 healers and generally lose one tank somwhere in there on Gomok but the best we've gotten is 25% when the worms appear.

...

Last night I got nailed, through Last Stand (61,000hp) in .4 seconds......eww. But aside from that, we are not far off making it through with tanks still alive. I think we just need to confer with the healers and come up with a plan. At that point....we just have to pull out some more DPS.

We run 3 tanks and 6 healers as well, because the tuning of the fight never really pushed us to take any risks. That said, I don't see how you can have a real problem with tank deaths with a 3 tank rotation. The first rotation through, there's essentially no dangerous burst. The second rotation, each tank can cover both impales with personal cooldowns. The strongest geared tank should probably be first on the list, he'll be the only tank to take a third rotation, and he/she can use their stronger cooldown to cover both impales. Said first tank only has to deal with 3 stacks of rising anger during his second rotation, so Last Stand + trinkets should be completely sufficient there, and shieldwall makes the third rotation harmless. Raid cooldowns are an option if required, but they really shouldn't be.

Running 2 tanks and 5 healers means you're a) subjecting yourself to more RNG, as a snobold on a healer is that much worse, b) offloading difficulty from undergeared/performing dps onto probably also undergeared tanks/healers, again subjecting yourself to more RNG, and executing a markedly more complex strategy, and with additional complication comes additional failure modes.

61k hp with Last Stand means roughly 47k hp normally, which is, I think, probably a little bit thin for 25man Gormok. Week one, our weakest geared tank was at 50k raidbuffed (a DK), and we've yet to see a tank-death on Gormok. We've also yet to see Ardent Defender proc. Our progression kill was tanked by Paladin, Warrior, DK. Paladin tanked first (not a FotM thing, I've been guild MT since mid-Sunwell), Warrior second, DK third. Warrior and DK blew all personal cooldowns to cover both impales in thier second rotation, I blew trinkets on 2nd rotation, and shieldwall on third. I was also at around 54k raidbuffed at the time (warrior and dk both at just over 50k).

If you do find yourself forced into a 2-tank strat, I can't offer any advice from experience.

--
Meloree, <Edge>, Garona

PapaNasty
09-23-2009, 10:25 PM
We were initially trying this with a 3 tank rotation, but found that our warrior tank was repeatedly dying (So much so, that we would soulstone him each attempt). Thus we swapped to a 2 tank rotation between myself (prot paladin) and our feral druid, with our prot warrior dpsing (as prot spec / gear) and then he would tank the stationary worm in p2.

Likewise we only run with 5 healers since we were finding that the enrage timer was quite tight (1 pally, 1 disc priest, 1 holy priest, 2 rest druids). Also we found that tank deaths in p1 weren't due to lack of healing (well once or twice due to healers d/c until they sorted their connections, that was it), but rather tanks were either instant gibbed (Although this hasn't happened at all since they turned off parry haste etc for gormok) or died during the switch. With just 2 tanks however, healers already have their hots up + beacon set to the new tank without comprimising their healing at all on the existing tank. The bleeds themselves aren't really a danger at all, only the instant strike from impale itself.

In our 2 tank rotation, we each take 4 stacks of the debuff before the other tank taunts. We each pop an indestructable pot just before combat begins (as he says "battle on heroes") and then use minor cooldowns (trinkets / the 1min bearwall) once indestructable pots run out. As I'm taking the 2nd to last set of stacks, I bubble them off and then use divine sacrifice for 30% dmg reduction. Once Gormok dies I Hand of Protection our feral druid to remove his bleeds, and then immediately Hand of Freedom him to remove the immunity.

Also we have our ranged dps + most melee (ret pallys + rogues stay on boss as too much dps lost by changing targets), switch targets to snowbolds as soon as they jump onto someones back, as we need to eventually kill them anyway, and it's a large chunk of lost dps from their interrupts / stuns if we leave them up (and very dangerous if they are on our healers, particularly the holy pally)

This puts us into phase 2 without any bleeds up.



I will admit that our tanks are more consistently geared than most tanks on our server as we don't run MT loot (instead we run dkp and it just happens that all tanks end up equally geared since we all make just about every raid), so we were all 50k+ hp with full raid buffs (makesure at least 1 shaman drops stoneskin too since it stacks with devotion).


Anyway hope that my 2c helps some of the other guilds out there with it.

Sethrot
09-28-2009, 10:42 AM
thanks for the added video it help us get through phase 1 tonight. i have a question though i noticed on Lore's video that both tanks were on Dreadscale when he came up. what is the strat for that and maybe i could help us on the worms too(which looks like our next big hurdle)

Logist
09-28-2009, 01:30 PM
How can you deal with Burning Bile on the melee? it gets very hectic if 7 people with this debuff are running all around the room trying to not hug each other.

this is nail on what happens to us...



Finally got the bastards down today. 3 Tanks, 6 Healers, 16 DPS.
P1, Tank get 2 stacks. People with Adds run to melee, melee (excluding Kitty and retri) dps the adds down.
P2, Acidmaw got 2 tanks, when one get the poison the other taunts. Then the tank moves as close as possible to someone with the Fire debuff.
Melee spread into 4 groups of 2, 2 groups on each worm, Ranged kept distance as much as possible. Having max 1 player in their 10yard range.
We got into P3 with about 2Mil HP left on the worm. Tank picked up Ice howl and placed him in the middle while we were nuking down the worm.
After that its pretty straight forward, Used blood lust on the first stun and got him down couple of seconds away from his enrage timer.

Hi were having exact same problem.. according to guide/video it was my understading to burn acidmaw with all the dps? same thing happend as to you we got owned with fire debuff like you said instant almost all melee dead when that fire hit. now in video i guess you had less melee and this was possible so in our case if so many melee(8 i think) its better to spread melee on 2 worms? so all on acidmaw or split into er 4 groups of melee depends on the raid makeup?

could you elaborate a bit on this.. thanks!

Regards
Logist

Holybubi
09-28-2009, 02:22 PM
The key is spreading the melee. After that make sure people dont hug each other when acidmaw is dead.

Logist
09-28-2009, 05:12 PM
Ok gonna try this next time if there will be alot of melee on raid. Thanks alot for now! :)

edit: sry I have to ask :) in the movie it says: " it's advised that every raid member pulls up their range frame and stays 10 yards away from everyone else" urm some specific addon im missing here or built in feature or is this the range warrning from deadly boss mod for instance?

Sethrot
09-28-2009, 10:54 PM
Ok gonna try this next time if there will be alot of melee on raid. Thanks alot for now! :)

edit: sry I have to ask :) in the movie it says: " it's advised that every raid member pulls up their range frame and stays 10 yards away from everyone else" urm some specific addon im missing here or built in feature or is this the range warrning from deadly boss mod for instance?

you can do /range with dbm and bring the range check up

electronicmaji
10-06-2009, 03:08 AM
My guild has been trying this for the past couple nights but our tanks get keeping one shotted.

It seems that first of all, no matter what our tanks do, the impale debuff does not fall off our tanks unless the get four stacks of it. Then they have to wait the normal amount of time. But if they have two stacks and switch and wait it never falls off.

Furthermore, it seems our tanks are taking too much damage, and the amount put out is just unhealable.

Our guild doesn't have the dps to down the snobolds at the same time as downing Gormok, if we don't all focus on him, and have a group focusing on snobolds on tanks/healer, the jormungars come out, and by then its over. They're venom does far too much damage.

If I read correctly do the snobolds staying alive increase Gormoks damage output?

robbon
10-06-2009, 05:34 AM
you can get a pally to place hand of protection on the tank, it removes the 4 stacks of debuff and then simply have the tank spam a macro to /cancelaura hand of protection.

drae
10-06-2009, 05:48 AM
The de-buff will fall off at two stacks if you use a three tank rotation. It will fall off approx 2s prior to a new impale being applied.

We found it easiest to assign a group of dps (5) to dps the snowbolds pretty much the entire gormok phase. It's usually our 3 hunters, our elemental shaman, and a misc. 5th.

Electronic - the damage gormok does goes up every time he launches a snowbold at your raid, Tanks should (must) be blowing cooldowns after 3-4 snowbolds have been tossed into the raid in order to survive the impale.

Smekl
10-08-2009, 12:45 AM
You had few mistakes there,
1. If a player gets hit by his charge, this can easliy be denraged using Tranquilizing shot (yes on toc25 HC).
2. Arctic Breath can be interrupted (yes on toc25 HC).

other than that, nice movie.

Daimon
10-08-2009, 09:03 AM
is there any DPS min cap for this fight? can any1 link some wws? we tried this last time and it was hard to dps kobolds/boss w/o getting the worms in the fight, do you recommend using hero on gormok?

Logist
10-11-2009, 11:14 PM
You had few mistakes there,
1. If a player gets hit by his charge, this can easliy be denraged using Tranquilizing shot (yes on toc25 HC).
2. Arctic Breath can be interrupted (yes on toc25 HC).

other than that, nice movie.

o rly? this is gooood info will try it this week

Zinfadel
10-14-2009, 12:32 AM
Edit, as my guild actually just completed this encounter.

Comp

Tanks:
Paladin
Druid

Healers:
Holy Priest
Resto Shamans x2
Resto Druid
Holy Paladin x2

Heavy Melee DPS comp, 2 mages, 2 warlocks, 1 of each other caster spec.

P1:
Used the 2 tank rotation w/ the paladin tank handling the impales on himself and the druid tank.
Melee focused on the snobolds in the melee group and ranged focused on the the snobolds in the ranged group. We had about 15 seconds to spare, once we got people to stop dieing to fire bombs.

P2:
All DPS was on Acidmaw till we burned him. We had a cat druid go to bear to tank the stationary worm. Our main tanks stayed on the mobile worm and switched off as each of them got a debuff. We also BLed at the start of P2 and we were getting Acidmaw down to about 30% before he submerged. Dreadscale would die shortly before Icehowl became active. Doing it this way, it's possible to have a big bunch of people get bile at once. Healers just have to be ready for that and have everyone spread out that get it, even melee. It also makes a big difference to have your ranged use /range 10yds and keep spread out.

P3:
We all just burned Icehowl down hard. A few things to note though:
1) When he casts arctic breath, the target of the breath can be broken out by anything that cancels out a stun. Blink works really nicely here. If that's done, his arctic breath will be interupted.
2) While he's stunned after a charge, he does not build threat nor does he parry. Your dps can go ape shit, and your melee can actually get in front of him to melee to mitigate the amount of people arctic breath hits.(Note, some other sites have this reported as well, but may not be 100% accurate)
3) No matter how you tank him, tank him on a wall. We had the Tank tank him facing a wall, so that he does not get thrown back. However, your melee can inch up towards his side, so they're not getting parried but are as close as possible to his front. They can try to position themselves so his knock back knocks them into a wall, which will significantly increase your melee output. We thought about tanking him w/ his back towards a wall, but we didn't want our tank to get thrown too far out. We would've had another tank taunt off of him, but we didn't want him to become taunt immune.

World of logs link to the winning kill. (http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/DTTC8Jocluva80cr/sum/damageDone/?s=8115&e=8648)

Jorge
10-15-2009, 02:05 AM
You had few mistakes there,
1. If a player gets hit by his charge, this can easliy be denraged using Tranquilizing shot (yes on toc25 HC).
2. Arctic Breath can be interrupted (yes on toc25 HC).

other than that, nice movie.

(been corrected on enrage dispell, see below)
His breath cannot be interrupted directly.


2) While he's stunned after a charge, he does not build threat nor does he parry. Your dps can go ape shit, and your melee can actually get in front of him to melee to mitigate the amount of people arctic breath hits.


Watch your threat meter of choice and you will see the threat table is very alive. So time your Tricks of the Trade and Misdirection to give the tank some help.

Glittersmith
10-15-2009, 02:06 AM
Please don't spread false information.
In ToC-25 heroic Tranq Shot does nothing against his enrage after he trampled someone. Nor can his breath be interrupted directly.

Don't spread false information Tranq shot do work on hardmode to.

Jorge
10-15-2009, 02:14 AM
Don't spread false information Tranq shot do work on hardmode to.

Do you have any logs for this? Last time we had an enrage (2 or 3 weeks ago) our hunters screamed like little girls that tranq shot wouldn't work and tanks should best be using a CD now. :)

Glittersmith
10-15-2009, 02:16 AM
Our hunters did calm him down last week in hardmode, will try to dig up a log for it.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/ftHrBo8E2dYURlhv/details/58/?s=4323&e=4875)

That is for beast hardmode last week, as you see he was enraged for 2,4sec before he got tranqed.

Oh and to see what I am talking about you should go to the tab "Buffs Gained".

Jorge
10-15-2009, 02:32 AM
Our hunters did calm him down last week in hardmode, will try to dig up a log for it.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/ftHrBo8E2dYURlhv/details/58/?s=4323&e=4875)

That is for beast hardmode last week, as you see he was enraged for 2,4sec before he got tranqed.

Oh and to see what I am talking about you should go to the tab "Buffs Gained".

Well, I stand corrected:
[21:56:32.245] Gilathir (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/ftHrBo8E2dYURlhv/details/5/?s=4323&e=4875)'s Tranquilizing Shot (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/ftHrBo8E2dYURlhv/spell/19801/?s=4323&e=4875) dispells Icehowl (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/ftHrBo8E2dYURlhv/details/58/?s=4323&e=4875)'s Frothing Rage (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/ftHrBo8E2dYURlhv/spell/67659/?s=4323&e=4875)

Thank you very much.

Torrc
10-18-2009, 10:57 PM
This is our first Beast kill on heroic 25 on our first week of attempts. We used a 3 tank rotation, but this next week we are probably going to use the 2 tank rotation that lore posted. looks terrible here, but just watch it in HD.

YouTube - Heroic 25 Northerend Beast

smartikat
10-22-2009, 10:44 AM
Question to all...

My guild has been working on this for a few weeks (25 man heroic). The biggest argument of all is "Snowbold".

On the few attempts we "Ignore" snowbolds unless it is on a healer, we can get to phase 2. On those attempts we "Kill" snowbolds with ranges only, we usually lag behind schedule by 15-20% HP of the impaler.

3 tanks, 6 or 7 healers, Range / Melee 50-50 break.

90% of the DPS are 5-6k DPS capable. And when any player got snowbold, he drops about 1k dps (at least).

No, standing in fire is not an issue. Obviously have 3 snowbolds up at the beginning of P2 is. However, it's a trade off between making the timer or having to handle 3 bosses for 30 sec (which is extremely chaotic).

So, my question is that... Should I force them to kill the snowbold as it spawn and push them hard on it? Or keep what we are doing and kill snowbolds at the beginning of p2.

Kazeyonoma
10-22-2009, 10:55 AM
We always have whoever is snobolded to run into the melee, and have the melee target switch to the snobold, and kill it while cleaving/aoe hitting the boss (snobolds are immune to aoe/2nd target effects) and we kill them while fighting gormok.

Sometimes we'll kill gormok right as the wurms come and the other 2 tanks have to go pick em up, but realize that the "next boss" timer that DBM reports is when the next announcement is made, there's still probably 5-15 seconds that you have before the bosses actually engage. Going into p2 with snobolds is bad because you'll never meet the timer for icehowl. We go into p2 with no snobolds, and probably <3 seconds of loss dps on the wurms sometimes (and most times we don't even have loss of dps, it's a perfect transition) and we STILL end up having to tank icehowl for 5-10 seconds while we finish off the last wurm. So if you need to spend more time in p2 fighting snobolds and having diminished dps because of them, I imagine you'll never make it when icehowl comes in.

I think my guild runs 5 healers maybe 6, but definitely not 7, if you're running 7 it might be too many, and make sure all of your dps is putting out over 4.5k probably 4.8k minimum. It's a very hard fight, and if you're saying it's taking you 30 more seconds if you kill snobolds during phase 1 to finish off gormok after phase 2 begins, your dps isn't going hard enough.

Savallia
10-23-2009, 01:37 PM
One thing that we do in our guild to help out our healers is we cast Levitate on all the healers what that does is when he tosses fire on us it hits and we drop down and it puts out the fire. ergo we dont have to move all you need do is have levitate cast on you again and your good to go and continue doing as you do. Hope this helps =D

sycorax
11-03-2009, 11:02 AM
we've been running some pretty smooth heroic beasts encounters since we got our raid to actually make sure they are spread in the transitions. We use 6 healers and 3 tanks, one feral druid and 2 prot pallies.
For Snobolds, we have ranged and heals run into melee and everyone targets them and kills them. We normally are done with about 5 seconds left before the worms spawn, but if not we try to leave the feral druid tanking gormok while the 2 pallies bubble off the impale stacks and pick up the worms.
We have our best geared prot pally on acidmaw while all dps burn him down. The other prot pally and our feral druid trade off tanking dreadscale so that when one gets the burning bile the other taunts the boss. This frees the debuffed tank to move toward whoever has the paralytic toxin as they (usually its 7 melee) move toward him as well. After the first burrow finishes we use heroism to finish off Acidmaw and use the rest of the hero buff to get dreadscale down far. One big danger we found at this part of the fight where acidmaw and dreadscale are both up, is that when the raid is getting burning bile its easy for there to be confusion with who exactly should take that debuff to the tank with toxin. We had 3 ppl at a time running to the MT and blowing him, the melee and themselves up while trying to free him. We just had a designated person call out one person to do the running, but you could also just use the fact that the game puts raid icons on ppl with debuffs. there will always be at least a skull person so just have that person be the one who runs to the tanks.
Generally we have one more burrow and dreadscale dies shortly after coming up for the last time. Its very helpful here to remember that while dreadscale is rooted you have to be spread out but can be infront of him since he doesnt spray. This is when its dangerous for melee to be on the boss because of the risk 7 burning biles present. When the boss is mobile, spreading out doesnt matter but you cant get infront of him.
Icehowl is easymode. Tank him against the wall, make sure not to be near a wall that still has a gas cloud spreading from when dreadscale was moving about. Dps make sure to position themselves so that when icehowl does his charge thing they arent at risk to be tossed toward any remaining poison clouds. Melee dpses from the tanks position so they dont lose dps to the whirl. Heals spread out so all dont get frozen at once, and if ppl have pvp trinkets equiped they can use them if they get targeted with his breath. If the person who is actually targetted by the freezing breath uses the trinket it ends the breath and no one gets frozen. Really great for keeping dps time
As a healer in this fight id say the biggest worry on the icehowl part of the encounter is making sure to preshield or hot the raid before the boss does his charge attack. The knock back causes a large amount of damage so ppl should be topped off and hots should be ticking during the stun.
For the fight as a whole, the biggest help i saw was our healers constantly yelling at the dps to spread out spread out spread the @$% out in the worm transitions. After that it was mostly cake

lanfear
11-17-2009, 06:32 AM
What addon is being used here that lets her know when CoH and PoM are ready?

autumnsgoddess
11-17-2009, 08:04 AM
we have been bringing a priest in to cast levitate during the beast boss to avoid being hit with fire on casters, it seems to work well.

Csteel1
11-17-2009, 06:46 PM
I really like the add-ons you are using in the bottom video....what are they? i can't figure it out....thanks

Mal

Essarim
11-18-2009, 09:49 PM
we have been bringing a priest in to cast levitate during the beast boss to avoid being hit with fire on casters, it seems to work well.

My only qualm with using this strat is that it may be considered an exploit. I brought it to my guild, and many seemed to think the same. Is there some mechanic I don't know about that would allow for this to be working as intended?

Sharoman
11-19-2009, 08:22 AM
Just a simple question.
In your movie you your using a swiftness potion right after Icehowl charges at your members. is there a reason why you dont have a hunter use apsect of the pack?

Unknowhero
11-19-2009, 03:04 PM
TOGC25 northrend beasts we got icehowl to 0.4% hp left(70k hp) prety fcked up lol that's like 1second later enrage timer and we had him :(

Shodowz
12-01-2009, 11:33 PM
Anyone know if Effective Health or running a SBV/SBR set would be more beneficial ?

Gormok hits ridiculously hard and coupled with the stacks of Impale, What are the other tanks especially warriors running for this fight ?

Tazlex
12-02-2009, 01:50 PM
You want effective health mostly, but having good armor and avoidance to compound with that health is super effective? Also you want to balance cooldowns and possibly use cooldowns from other raid members to reduce the damage taken.

Kazeyonoma
12-02-2009, 01:59 PM
armor = part of effective health.

Vetrosian
12-12-2009, 01:51 AM
Anyone know if Effective Health or running a SBV/SBR set would be more beneficial ?

Gormok hits ridiculously hard and coupled with the stacks of Impale, What are the other tanks especially warriors running for this fight ?

How many stacks of Impale are you letting your tanks take? We found more than 2 caused deaths, so we have our tanks taunt when their own debuff has around 2-4 seconds left on it, Gormok seems to delay impalling after a taunt, although I'm not sure if it's different in 25m

Shodowz
12-14-2009, 06:11 PM
we use pally - warr - DK tanks

Pally first eats 4 impales, then we start the 2 taunt rotation - After every spell lock about 3 seconds after that the impale lands, We just pop CD's for dealing with each.

We are very close had a 67k wipe on Icehowl :mad: lol, I am using a pure EH set for this, just wasnt sure if thats what all the other tanks are using for this fight and the rest of ToGC 25.

Wesarp
12-26-2009, 11:57 AM
In 10 man should this strategy be used too?
We have had a couple of tries on northrend beasts and always wiped because of the tank died.
In our raid we had:
2 Tanks, Warrior and Death Knight.
3 Healers, Priest, Paladin and Shaman
3 Ranged DPS, Warlock, Mage and Hunter.
2 Melee DPS, Rouge and Druid.

Maybe the DPS isnt so important, but its just if you had a trick to use one of the DPS's in this fight :p

Wesarp
12-26-2009, 12:30 PM
In 10 man should this strategy be used too?

And im referring to the Addendum video to Gormok ;)

martyrinsane
05-31-2010, 03:07 PM
I'm dealing with the same issue there, that and while we're trying not to hug each other we lose good DPS time on the boss.

I have been having the same problem (kinda) in 10 man heroic...90% of the time I will have burning bile or the toxin and after 2 ticks I die because usually the healers are on the tanks.I'm a hunter so would aspect of the wild be useful for the toxin at all?