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lovecow
09-04-2009, 02:09 PM
im a dk tank with 29k un buffed health atm ^frost^ with my defense at 550 ive gone to point wear a good amount of my gems are 30+ stam my issue well question is about expertise will that increase my threat ^tps^ im currently haveing a few agro issues on bosses i was wondering if expertise would help my agro issue a little

Gordonoth
09-04-2009, 02:18 PM
Taken from Wowwiki:
"The dodge and parry chances for boss-mobs is currently disputed, but combat parses tend to point at around 6.5% dodge and 14% parry.Assuming 6.5% dodge and 14% parry, a player would need 26 expertise (214 expertise rating) to negate a boss's dodge chance, and 56 expertise (460 rating) to prevent parries."
Im not sure how easy expertise is to come by but i think that being parry caped is unrealistic at low levels of gear.
As a general rule, if you are not holding your raid back by lowering your survivrabiltiy getting more Exp is good. You should also look into hit, as it preforms the same role as expertise. It isnt as good but it is easier to come by.

Hope this helps, as a paladin i dont have any class orientated advice, but they are the basic facts of expertise.

Insahnity
09-04-2009, 03:16 PM
TL: DR Maintain 26 expertise one way or the other, and hit <> expertise.


Taken from Wowwiki:
"The dodge and parry chances for boss-mobs is currently disputed, but combat parses tend to point at around 6.5% dodge and 14% parry.Assuming 6.5% dodge and 14% parry, a player would need 26 expertise (214 expertise rating) to negate a boss's dodge chance, and 56 expertise (460 rating) to prevent parries."
Im not sure how easy expertise is to come by but i think that being parry caped is unrealistic at low levels of gear.
As a general rule, if you are not holding your raid back by lowering your survivrabiltiy getting more Exp is good. You should also look into hit, as it preforms the same role as expertise. It isn't as good but it is easier to come by.

Hope this helps, as a paladin i dont have any class orientated advice, but they are the basic facts of expertise.

To clarify that statement -Regardless of high or low gear levels, hitting 460 expertise rating would require you to sacrifice so many other stats (generally, stam, hit and dodge/parry) that you would cease to be viable as a tank.

Mobs who Dodge your attack is a problem because you fail to connect, and parry means you also fail to connect AND you *may* (or may not) parry haste the bosses next attack. So, if you are at 26 expertise skill, you will get rid of that pesky problem, AND you will reduce parry chance to 7.5% (14% -6.5% reduction from 214 rating). For every attack that the boss does parry, it averages to .24 extra swings due to parry hasting, so 0.24 swings * 7.5%=0.018 extra swings. Now most tanks sport at least 40% avoidance (usually more), so that reduces it to a further 0.0108 swings that actually land. Now let's say the boss hits for 20k on your plate (or lard ass, if a fuzzy bear), and he gains an whopping 0.0108 extra swings, thats an extra 216 damage. I hope you are not worried about 216 extra damage, or even 648 damage for an insane 60k on plate hit.

To demonstrate its effect on threat, realize that expertise eliminates Dodge AND Parry at the SAME TIME. Up until you get rid of dodge, you get twice the effect of eliminating misses. Beyond that, there is some value in getting rid of some parries, but not "doubly good" as below 214 rating.

0 expertise rating - 6.5% dodge and 14% parry - you fail to connect 20.5% of the time.
99 expertise - 3.5% dodge and 11% parry - you don't connect 14% of the time
197 rating - .5% dodge and 8% parry - you don't connect 8.5% of the time
214 rating - 0 dodges, 7.5% parry - you don't connect 7.5% of the time

As for hit, it doesn't have "The same effect". Your have a chance to miss a level 83 boss 8% of the time (and out of the remaining 92% of the time, the boss can dodge or parry based on your expertise...), asumming a single weapon (I won't go into DW DKs). Increasing hit just decreases your chance to miss, it has no effect on the boss dodging or parrying, that's what expertise is for. Going beyond hit cap doesn't help you.

When anything tries to swing at something, one of the following things can happen (in order of precedence)

Order of precedence
Result
1 Miss
2 Dodge
3 Parry
4 Glancing blow
5 Block
6 Critical strike
7 Hit

Hit can lower or removes miss chance, option 1 (doesn't increase chance of hit)
Expertise can lower or remove Dodge and Parry, options 2 and 3
You can't do anything about glancing blows, option 4 (24% chance against bosses), but it still does some damage (70% of damage).
Blocks works the same way as glancing blows, but not sure how many bosses can block and how much they block.
Chance to crit does not avoid miss/dodge/parry/glancing blow/block, it reduces chance to hit (option 7) in favour of a critical strike.

So, if your hits don't miss (hit capped), aren't dodged (214 expertise rating), that leaves 7.5% for parries, 24% chance of a glancing blow for 70% of your damage, unknown block quantity, and the rest is either a hit, or a crit based on your crit percentage.

lovecow
09-04-2009, 09:26 PM
ok ty for the tips i appericate it josh :0