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View Full Version : Swipe Spam says what?



Liquidska
08-26-2009, 01:28 PM
I was a tank for Uldur 25 that had strong progression, I was part of the Alliance 2nd Yogg kill, but I have since relaxed back and generally just screw around in 10 mans with my RL friends lately. Since the patch specifcally though my AoE threat seems to be harder then normal. Swipe spam just 'aint cutting, I usally gotta lay down an Lacerate on each mob before I know its safe.

I got all my abilites bound with /maul on them, I always try to enrage before a pull so I can get the inital swipe and any following attacks of fast. My guild and a few random people I have found keep telling me that I am low on hit. Which, I suppose could be true but it has never really seemed to be an issue before. Hit has always seemed like an incidental stat, nice to have but not something you should pursue.

In light of my guild though, I have since thrown on +20 hit gems in to most of my yellow slots (Was using Agi / Hit and Stam / Hit before). I realize now that I skipped over my crab, I will hit that up when I get home. (Even though I would love to replace it) Any thoughts?

Isley Bloom (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Stormscale&n=Isleybloom)

Vanimas
08-27-2009, 11:52 AM
For awhile after 3.2, I felt like my AoE threat had gone down as well, but I contributed that to hearing other bears complain about it. At this point, I haven't really been having any trouble with Swipe/Maul spam for the various AoE packs...

Are you switching between targets while you're spamming the Swipe macro (in order to spread your mauls around)? Are you getting Tricks/Misdirect?

Maybe your DPS is just not waiting as long as they were in the past.... It really could be any combination of things.

Insahnity
08-27-2009, 12:15 PM
I too have found my DPS has gone down a bit with the latest patch. I was shocked when I had aggro taken from me in HToC 5 man after being tossed about by the orc warrior. Whereas before swipe+maul was all you needed, as the OP say, I'm having to tab target some lacerates for a little extra threat. I'm not saying I want to go afk while I leave a weight on a key bound to a swipe+maul macro, however, this is a bit of an issue when you have short contact periods (such as being tossed about, being forced to stop and restart between phases, or holding aggro on mobs with so few hit points that they die to DPS AoE before you land more than 3 swipes. and so on).

Liquidska
08-28-2009, 01:07 AM
Well it is refreshing to hear that I am not the only one who is having these sort of issues. I have always done my best to try and switch my target for swipe spam for exactly that reason. Spread the threat out a bit, have a few that the feral druids (or other single target classes) can open up a bit on. And to a lesser extent put out more infected wounds. Mitagates some damage I am sure.

Any thoughts on the actual +hit gems? After switching to them I have noticed my threat increased a bit but not enough to account for the health lose.

Timberton
08-28-2009, 03:06 AM
Maybe a long shot, but...

...is the venture coin idol Idol of Perspicacious Attacks - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=38365) best for swipe/maul spam ? or there's something that over takes it

If you are not using it, consider giving it a try, if you are using it...i don't know...

Chakka
08-29-2009, 12:24 PM
I would agree. Ive noticed a loss of damage output on my bear since 3.2. cant exactly put my finger on why yet. hmmmmm

Barta
08-29-2009, 06:23 PM
I noticed a little bit of a problem with aggro in heroics after the patch, but I attributed it to two things (correctly or incorrectly, this is just what I thought).

1. Geared dps'ers have new reason to run heroics.
2. Dps'ers have better gear since running said heroics.


I haven't noticed my dps dropped so much as others I'm running with has increased. Now, I have 241 hit and 31 exp without using any hit gems. I also run heroics with a slightly different gear setup that gives me 400+ attack power from swapping to a dps weapon and 8% more crit from swapping ring/trink/neck/cloak.

I don't know if Blizz stealth-nerfed swipe threat or what, but I have had to adjust things to compensate.

adizs
08-30-2009, 04:45 PM
I cant say I noticed any change in our ae threat. I tank the packs before Hodir and freya flowers quite comfortably for example. Heroics is hard to say but one thing is that your gear could have actually gotten better and you get less rage. I do heroics with 4 dps and no healer and I think 1 paladin has died once due to overagroing.

To answer your question about the gems Isleybloom. You are low on hit. But have you wiped or caused the raid to hit the enrage timer because your dps is threat capped? I myself wouldnt dream of gemming hit.

Liquidska
08-31-2009, 01:39 AM
To answer your question about the gems Isleybloom. You are low on hit. But have you wiped or caused the raid to hit the enrage timer because your dps is threat capped? I myself wouldnt dream of gemming hit.

Honestly I agree, this is more of an experiment more then anything else. I been tanking with this hit gem setup lately, while I do feel squishier (I only having a mere 60k with SI up), I have noticed my AoE threat is better. And no, only very rarely is single target threat an issue and if so there has always been MD / ToT / Salv available so the raid can do their thing.

In raids I have started to rely on the Warrior I work with to take a more active role on AoE threat packs, the hit gems have helped (sadly), I would sitll love to get rid of them and get some of my stam back, but if a tank can't hold threat, then they cease to be a tank. Up until I can gear a spear / staff with more hit on it it looks like the gems will stay. >.<

Darkchild
08-31-2009, 06:35 AM
Maybe a long shot, but...

...is the venture coin idol Idol of Perspicacious Attacks - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=38365) best for swipe/maul spam ? or there's something that over takes it

If you are not using it, consider giving it a try, if you are using it...i don't know...

^-- this a really nice one to use during aoe packs.

Other then that I'm on about the same hit as you but don't have that much trouble.

I can give you 2 pieces of advice:
1) tab around while swipe/maul spamming, the targets who get mauls are never gonna get away ;)
2) ask a rogue to tricks+fok you, it helps a shitload !

adizs
08-31-2009, 08:20 AM
In raids I have started to rely on the Warrior I work with to take a more active role on AoE threat packs, the hit gems have helped (sadly), I would sitll love to get rid of them and get some of my stam back, but if a tank can't hold threat, then they cease to be a tank. Up until I can gear a spear / staff with more hit on it it looks like the gems will stay. >.<

When you say AE threat packs. What are you referring to? I cant really think of any actual boss fight where AE threat is extremely crucial in Ulduar or Coloseum atm. Razorscale perhaps, Yogg to some extent (but in all fairness Maul Glyph should save you at Yogg unless you are donig yogg0 something I have not even tried so I am not really sure). Firefighter, especially on 10 man when you tank it alone, requires some ae threat. Freya has some ae threat but maul glyph is a life saver also here. Kologarn/Thorim maybe. Feel free to correct me if I missed some boss.

I myself strongly suggests you dont gem for hit and go for agi/sta instead unless you are causing a LOT of raid wipes.

Liquidska
09-02-2009, 09:30 AM
I am talking Trash mainly. XT packs, Trash for Hodir / Freya / Mimiron and trying to tank Thorim arena side. Although the part that is really hurting me is heroics, kids are pulling off me like nothing.

Something that someone suggested is that I am running daily heroics for the Triumph badges, but since everyone and their mother now has at least 2 peices of 8.5 the average threat of a pug has gone up but the likely hood of them actually attacking the mob that has a lacerate stack on it stayed the same.

What happens is I go to pull, I hit everything with a swipe so the healer doesn't get rofled, put up a mangle and lacerate on one mob that needs to be focused, then try to spam swipe to keep everything attached to me through the AoE or whatever. What happens is that the one that I put the mangle on is fine yet at least 1-2 of the rest of the guys will run off in different directions.

I realize that bear has some baked in +threat, but would +24 damage on swipe really make the difference? That sounds pretty minuscule.

adizs
09-02-2009, 03:35 PM
I very rarely put up mangle and lacerate on the mob that should be focused. I just let maul do the the job (maul is macroed into swipe) since I have it targetted. I do use mangle on nasty trash packs in raids to get the idol going sometimes.

If I were you I would NOT gem for heroics since iirc you are in a raid progressing guild and you should focus on that. My suggestion is to spam more swipe and less mangle/lacerate.

Chakka
09-02-2009, 05:08 PM
Yeah, i dont normally use lacerate if there are more than 3 mobs. just spam swipe and que up maul every time you can (rage permitting).

Keep in mind that maul damage is increased on targets that have bleed increasing debuffs on them, so if you get mangle up on 2 or 3 targets the mauls will be nutso and you will have gobs of threat.