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Ciderhelm
08-26-2009, 06:48 AM
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http://www.tankspot.com/forums/images/snowfall/donorbanner.jpg (http://www.tankspot.com/premium.php)

The UI seen in this video is Lore's UI (http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f211/45772-lore-s-ui.html)


Hi, I'm Lore from Tankspot, and welcome back to the Trial of the Crusader raid guide. In this video I'll be discussing the Twin Val'kyr, the fourth encounter available in the Coliseum raid instance.

Before the pull, you should separate out your DPS into two roughly equal groups, preferably with a mix of melee and ranged classes in each. One group will be assigned primarily to Edyis Darkbane, and the other to Fjola Lightbane. Once the fight begins, four portals will spawn around the room -- two light, and two dark. Using these portals will give you a buff called either Light or Dark Essence which does two things: absorbs all damage of the same type, and increases your damage done to the Val'kyr of the opposite type. So, at the start of the fight, everyone should click the portal of the opposite type of the Val'kyr they're assigned to -- light portal for Darkbane, and dark portal for Lightbane. Healers should click a portal at the start as well, but the color doesn't really matter.

Periodically throughout the fight, several small Light and Dark orbs will appear at the edges of the room and begin to float around. These will explode when touched, and deal a moderate amount of the appropriate damage type in a short radius. This damage can be absorbed by players with the same essence as the orbs, so when they spawn, everyone should quickly absorb any nearby same-color orbs. Aside from keeping those orbs from hitting other players, any time Light or Dark damage is absorbed by your essence, you'll recieve a stacking debuff called Powering Up. Once Powering Up reaches 100 stacks, you'll get a short term buff that gives you 100% increased damage to the opposite type.

About every 45 seconds, one of the two Val'kyr will use one of two random special abilities, one of which is Twin's Pact. This is a very powerful heal that will restore a very large amount of HP to both val'kyr if successfully cast. It needs to be interrupted quickly, but in order to do that you'll have to break through a damage shield that the twin casting the spell will put up beforehand. All ranged DPS who isn't currently attacking that twin should change their essence and switch targets until the shield is broken. Once the shield is down and the heal is interrupted, they can move back to their assigned target.

The second special ability will be either a Light or Dark vortex, depending on which twin is casting it. This is a raid-wide AOE that deals several pulses of the appropriate damage type. Everyone who is currently using the opposite essence will need to change quickly to absorb the damage. Note that this will increase your Powering Up stacks, so DPS who are close to hitting 100 stacks and need to change essense may want to consider moving over to the other twin temporarily. Otherwise, just change back when the AOE finishes.

Note that the twins have a shared health pool. Any damage done to one will be taken by both. The reason we spread the raid out between light and dark essence isn't specifically to split DPS, but to make sure there's enough of each to absorb all the orbs that come out, and keep from having the entire raid switching essence at the same time for a Vortex or Twin's Pact.

It's also important to note that the twins can absorb orbs and will gain the damage buff if they absorb enough of them. This is why we have the raid relatively spread around the room -- to make sure all of the orbs get picked up before they get to one of the Val'kyr.

In this kill, we have the twins positioned roughly evenly between the two portals on either side. If you prefer, you can tank them near a portal of the same color. This will make it easy for melee and tanks to change colors quickly if needed, but they'll have a longer run to get to the other portal and change back. We found it simpler to keep them in a more central location. Ultimately, the positioning doesn't matter as much as simply understanding the mechanics of the encounter and how to deal with them. Once you've got it all figured out, it's just a matter of execution.

It's also worth mentioning that the Light and Dark damage is affected by resistances. Dark abilities deal Shadow damage, and Light abilities deal Fire damage. Most of the Dark and Light damage should be getting absorbed by players using the proper essences, but accidents can happen, and Shadow or Fire resistance buffs and auras can help create a little extra margin for error.

Thanks for watching this video. As always, if you'd like more information on this or any other encounter, check the Project Marmot forums at Tankspot.com. If you're watching this on YouTube, just follow the link in the movie details. Good luck!


Hi, this is Lore from Tankspot, and welcome back to the Trial of the Crusader raid guide. This video will be discussing our strategy for the 10-man Normal version of the Twin Valk'yrs encounter.

The key to the Twin Valk'yrs encounter lies in the effective use of Light and Dark Essence. You can acquire an essence of a particular color by clicking on one of the portals which will spawn around the room shortly before the fight begins. While affected by Light Essence, you will deal extra damage to the Dark Valk'yr, Eydis Darkbane, and absorb all Light-based damage in the encounter. Likewise, when you have Dark Essence, you'll deal extra damage to Fiola Lightbane and absorb all Dark-based damage.

Absorbing damage is critical to your success, as not only does it make the job much easier for healers, but every absorbed hit will contribute to a stacking debuff called Powering Up. Once Powering Up reaches 100 stacks, you'll get a short term damage buff called either Empowered Light or Empowered Darkness depending on which essence you currently have active.

Periodically, several orbs of light or dark energy will appear at the edges of the room and begin to float around in random directions. When touched, these will explode for a fair amount of AOE damage. Players need to touch the orbs of the same color as their essence, and carefully avoid orbs of the opposite color. This is one of the primary ways for DPS to stack Powering Up, so ideally healers should be the opposite color of the group they're healing in order to avoid stealing orbs from DPS.

Roughly every 60 seconds, one of the twins will begin to cast one of two special abilities: Twin's Pact or Vortex. When Vortex is chosen, everyone in the raid needs to immediately switch to that twin's color if they aren't already, as the twin will begin to channel a high damage non-interruptable AOE that hits the entire raid. Both twins should be tanked near the opposite color portal in order to let everyone switch quickly. Keep in mind that when your essence changes, your damage buff will change to the opposite twin. Ranged DPS especially should switch targets during Vortex. Keep an eye on your Powering Up stacks as well -- if you're close to 100, you'll want to make the most of your incoming Empowered Light or Darkness buff.

When Twin's Pact is chosen, the twin casting it will shield herself and begin channeling a massive heal. All DPS needs to focus on that twin quickly, changing essence if necessary, in order to break the shield and expose the caster to interrupts such as Kick or Pummel. Healers and tanks don't need to change essence for Twin's Pact, and once it's been interrupted, any DPS that had to swap can switch back to their original essence.

Note that the twins share a health pool -- any damage dealt to one will be taken by the other as well. If you wanted, you could just have all the DPS use the same essence and focus entirely on one twin. However, it's best to split DPS somewhat evenly, for two reasons. First, it allows you to have DPS collecting both color orbs, which means faster Powering Up stacks. It also means you'll always have at least some DPS started already when Twin's Pact is cast, and you don't have to risk a heal getting off because the entire raid didn't swap targets fast enough.

The Twin Valk'yr encounter uses a very unique mechanic that can be somewhat confusing at first, but once you get the hang of it this is ultimately a very simple encounter. Just remember - Only touch orbs of the same color as your essence, make sure you're hitting the twin of the opposite color of your essence, and watch carefully for the cues to switch essences. If you'd like to know more information on the Twin Valk'yrs or any other encounter, check the Project Marmot forums at TankSpot.com. If you're watching this on YouTube, just follow the link in the movie details. Thanks for watching, and good luck!

Additional Links
Spiritus' Compilation of Twin Valkyrs Information (http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f218/54453-twin-valkyrs-encounter.html)
Twin Valkyrs: Simple Method to Get You Started (http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f218/54691-twin-valkyr-s-simple-method-get-you-started.html)

Note: With the updated "fixes" made by Blizzard, there is a raid wide AOE damage that occurs throughout the fight. The damage isn't game breaking but it does add to the amount of raid wide healing that needs to be done.

keynann
08-26-2009, 07:31 AM
We found that if one of the orbs on the ground is absorbed it gives several stacks to all members of the raid of the same type. To maximize dps we had all dps get the same essence and our healers would have 2 different and absorb the orbs for the raid (this was a very easy to fight to heal in 10 man). Also switching essences does not remove your stacks. We used this to gain a raid wide 100% damage buff very quickly during the fight where we used hero on our first one. During the heal it was simple enough to just have all the dps switch essences to break the shield and interupt. The twins can be tanked relatively close together and can be moved around the room to position your raid closer to the orbs to change essences quickly.

Iwchas
08-26-2009, 07:38 AM
Cool cant wait to watch it, and try it asap :)

Obara
08-26-2009, 08:03 AM
Wasn't mentioned in the video, but I assume tanks want the SAME essence as the Val'kyr they tank? And if so, is healing easy enough to just run with one healer for each tank? I'm thinking about 10-man.

keynann
08-26-2009, 08:10 AM
Wasn't mentioned in the video, but I assume tanks want the SAME essence as the Val'kyr they tank? And if so, is healing easy enough to just run with one healer for each tank? I'm thinking about 10-man.

No, tanks need to have different essence or they cant keep up on threat with the rest of the raid. Im a resto druid and found that this fight was incredibly light on healing in 10 man.

Purechaos
08-26-2009, 08:28 AM
I was surprised how easy this fight was last night. Did it with much ease, we have more trouble with faction champs then this lol.

None the less the most complicated thing i had for this fight was EXPLAINING what to do. After 1 wipe we figured it all out.

I prefer keeping them on their opposite portal, yeah its a longer run to not die when they cast. however i find it more important for getting the shield off and its more efficient since your running essentially to the portal ya want and the boss.

OVerall was kinda neat.....but like i said.....zomg the explanation was evil. So we decided to make a drawing to help better get the point across. il post it when its done.

Norik
08-26-2009, 08:33 AM
Ran last night in 10 man. I tanked the "light" side with the "dark" buff. Didnt seem to be getting all that hard. But enough to keep a nice rage pool.

Satorri
08-26-2009, 08:37 AM
That's interesting, Lore, you used a slightly different method than we did.

Rather than tanking between the two portals we tanked them each on top of the same colored portal and had dps pre-buff (the portals come out before the bosses) with the opposite color. Doing this we could click the same color buff really fast for the vortex, then use the speed increase from the buff to sprint over, switch back, and be back in place in a flash.

We were also playing with switching dps targets for the dps during the novas since tanking them like that will get everyone hit by the nova. Basically, say you're dpsing Darkbane, and she starts to nova, you click the dark portal, then turn and cast/charge Lightbane for the duration. If you're melee it's actually very easy because you can then click the light portal next to Lightbane when it's done and be right back on Darkbane. For ranged they still need to run out grab the buff and step back in, but with the speed boost that's a quick affair.

Fearghus
08-26-2009, 09:19 AM
No, tanks need to have different essence or they cant keep up on threat with the rest of the raid. Im a resto druid and found that this fight was incredibly light on healing in 10 man.

This is true about healing in 25 as well. We had a rough time clearing the Faction Champions last night and it took up the rest of our raid time. Those who remained (about half the raid) took a pull to see the fight. Since I was the only tank, I kept both of them on me, and even took an unprotected vortex and the few healers could keep me up. It might be possible that the tanks don't even take a portal buff unless threat becomes too much of an issue.

Falerwinn
08-26-2009, 09:41 AM
A couple things we learned while doing this last night.

1) they don't pull right away, so have everyone stay back where the npc to start the event is. This way you can get everyone set up with the right aura before you pull.

2) I haven't figured out why yet but tank dmg goes up from the non-shielded twin during twin pact. The easy way to solve this is to simply switch auras while the dps are burning down the shield, your threat doesn't matter at that point anyway. Just remember to switch back.

3) don't try to explain the whole fight at one time. people like to confuse twin pact and the light/dark vortex. explain each separately and you get to pull faster.

It's an easy fight, but I find it fun.

Flak
08-26-2009, 09:50 AM
I tanked the Light one, worship me.

Kazeyonoma
08-26-2009, 09:52 AM
we found that since they share an hp pool, stacking the two valkyr next to each other and using aoe type attacks help burn down the boss fight significantly faster, everything else is done the same.

Rettov
08-26-2009, 10:29 AM
What we did on this fight was stacked all our DPS on the dark one. Made everyone except the OT get the Light debuff. We stacked all the melee dps on the Dark boss and kept all the ranged and healers in the center circle of the room. Made it very simple to call out Light/Dark switches. If the light boss started to cast his Bubble Heal we would have everyone grab the dark buff and move to him. And everyone would just stay on him after the shield was broken and dps that one. Switching back and forth as needed. The shared health pools made it easy to do. This is by far the least challenging encounter in the place as we wiped once (It seems so complicated to explain but once you've "seen" it its simple) then we cleared in in about 3 minutes on the 2nd attempt.

Libertarian
08-26-2009, 10:33 AM
Stack the two valkyr up between the dark and light portal where the door is they come out. This lets you run between to the portals extremely fast. The bosses have a huge hit box so you can be almost at the portal and still hit at melee range. Healers do not need to attune. Range dps should spread around the bosses. Orb damage doesn't seem to matter at all.

wjb147
08-26-2009, 12:10 PM
That's interesting, Lore, you used a slightly different method than we did.

Rather than tanking between the two portals we tanked them each on top of the same colored portal and had dps pre-buff (the portals come out before the bosses) with the opposite color. Doing this we could click the same color buff really fast for the vortex, then use the speed increase from the buff to sprint over, switch back, and be back in place in a flash.

We were also playing with switching dps targets for the dps during the novas since tanking them like that will get everyone hit by the nova. Basically, say you're dpsing Darkbane, and she starts to nova, you click the dark portal, then turn and cast/charge Lightbane for the duration. If you're melee it's actually very easy because you can then click the light portal next to Lightbane when it's done and be right back on Darkbane. For ranged they still need to run out grab the buff and step back in, but with the speed boost that's a quick affair.

This right here. This strat reduces run time significantly, imo. As well, we had healers take the same portal as the boss they were on. That way they could soak the light orbs on the light boss' side, while the tank and dps on the light side could take the dark orbs, and vice versa. This allows you to keep your two groups separated and still have great orb coverage with no dps ramifications.

Predakhan
08-26-2009, 12:24 PM
I am not sure if this encounter is working as intended. For our guild we simply all went one color except the second tank and his 2 healers. We all just dps'ed one boss and only switch colors for the vortex. It obviously takes longer this way but was easier for people to understand. We just plowed through the one shield and ignored it when the other twin casted it.

I would not be surprised if Blizz upped the amount of healing.

Lore
08-26-2009, 12:40 PM
Yeah, like I mentioned in the video, there's several different ways to approach it from a positioning standpoint. One of the downsides to these bosses being so easy is that we don't have time to really play with the strategy much.

Crystalhaze
08-26-2009, 12:43 PM
I noticed that you didn't switch auras to break the first shield, which I noticed wasn't a huge deal since the raid dps was very high. My question, however, is can you still interrupt the heal once the shield has been burst if you don't switch auras, or are they immune to all your abilities. Not a big deal for 25m since so many can interrupt, this is more directed at 10m.

Lore
08-26-2009, 12:45 PM
I noticed that you didn't switch auras to break the first shield, which I noticed wasn't a huge deal since the raid dps was very high. My question, however, is can you still interrupt the heal once the shield has been burst if you don't switch auras, or are they immune to all your abilities. Not a big deal for 25m since so many can interrupt, this is more directed at 10m.

I didn't switch auras on the first one because I got confused :P I wasn't supposed to be switching targets anyway though as a melee DPS.

In 10man you want everyone to switch auras for the bubble unless you're heavy on ranged DPS. They're not immune to your abilities if you have the wrong aura on, however -- you just deal less damage. So kick, pummel, etc will still work.

Trustbuster
08-26-2009, 01:04 PM
If you tank the 2 valkyrs back to back (that is, the valkyrs are back to back in close proximity), you don't have to aura switch because melee doesn't have to move when they switch targets to break the shield. And as Kazeyonoma said, you get the added benefit of your cleave-type abilities (heartstrike, whirlwind, bladestorm, divine storm, etc.) hitting both mobs at the same time, upping your overall raid dps.

We broke every shield with every member of the raid, and nobody aura switched at all except to avoid the overload-type abilities. And I agree, it is technically possible to attune everyone to one color, have them all dps the opposite color, and beat this fight. Eg. both tanks attuned dark, all dps attuned dark, all dps attacks light mob and only switches to avoid the light overload.

I am sure that the hard mode will nix most of these strats and make it actually challenging. As it stands right now, unless your raid DPS is so bad that you can't break the shields down, this fight is probably the easiest in Coliseum.

Darksend
08-26-2009, 01:39 PM
That's interesting, Lore, you used a slightly different method than we did.

Rather than tanking between the two portals we tanked them each on top of the same colored portal and had dps pre-buff (the portals come out before the bosses) with the opposite color. Doing this we could click the same color buff really fast for the vortex, then use the speed increase from the buff to sprint over, switch back, and be back in place in a flash.

We were also playing with switching dps targets for the dps during the novas since tanking them like that will get everyone hit by the nova. Basically, say you're dpsing Darkbane, and she starts to nova, you click the dark portal, then turn and cast/charge Lightbane for the duration. If you're melee it's actually very easy because you can then click the light portal next to Lightbane when it's done and be right back on Darkbane. For ranged they still need to run out grab the buff and step back in, but with the speed boost that's a quick affair.

this.


Yeah, like I mentioned in the video, there's several different ways to approach it from a positioning standpoint. One of the downsides to these bosses being so easy is that we don't have time to really play with the strategy much.

and this

we spent at least 3x as much time explaining the fight than it took to actually kill them.

Lore
08-26-2009, 01:42 PM
I was explaining the fight to half of the raid midfight still on that kill :P

Kytana
08-26-2009, 01:52 PM
1st attempt we found a pattern, although it may just be coincidence. The light one always got the shield first, then the next shield would be on the black. It went back and forth like this. So on the 2nd attempt, we had all dps start out on the light side, waited for her to get the shield, broke it, then switched to the dark side. Dark eventually got her shield, we broke it, then moved back to the light side. This went on for a few mins, no deaths, easy kill on 25.

Anyone else experience the same predictable pattern or was it just luck?

Update: I just watched Lore's vid. Light got shield first, Dark got shield second. Pattern?

Kazeyonoma
08-26-2009, 02:16 PM
we got dark shield in 10 man first.

Kytana
08-26-2009, 02:26 PM
Ok so my next question is, has anyone gotten the shield on the same one twice in a row? Or does it always switch? I watched a few more vids on youtube, and have yet to see the same one get the shield twice in a row.....

Cupi
08-26-2009, 02:51 PM
Hardest part of the fight was explaining it to my raid, too.

All this "shadow" "light" ... "light" and "shadow".. Got so increadibly confused :D But until you count this as part of the fight, this was like the easiest fight i've ever accomplished against two guys having a "Boss" level.
The five men bosses are harder oO

Lets just all pray for heroic mode... Just one week left ;D

Kazeyonoma
08-26-2009, 02:57 PM
we had the light one shield twice back to back as well, it's random.

every 45 seconds or so I think just a random twin will do a special attack. that's the way it's coded.

Muffin Man
08-26-2009, 03:10 PM
We thought there was a pattern, shield, vortex, light, dark, ect. And our raid leader even called out the next one ahead of time.

Then we finished the fight with 3 dark vortexes in a row.


Wasn't mentioned in the video, but I assume tanks want the SAME essence as the Val'kyr they tank? And if so, is healing easy enough to just run with one healer for each tank? I'm thinking about 10-man.

I actually imagine the hardmode damage will be high enough that this is how it's done. Leading to some painful threat sensitivity since tanks will really be trading damage done for damage taken (you guys all wanted defensive stance! here it is!).

Grawr
08-26-2009, 05:27 PM
I was explaining the fight to half of the raid midfight still on that kill :P

Hahah same here, on our 1-shot 10 man kill with me being the only one who had any idea of the fight. Ridiculously easy with even a small idea of the mechanics.

Something interesting I found on 10 man at least was that the nova was not raid wide. We tanked them on opposite sides of the room, and when the Dark valkyr did her nova on the far side, our resto druid who was healing me on the Light side didn't switch - he still had his light buff. He didn't take any damage, being too far away.

Also on 10 man we missed 3 interrupts, because we were having people switch debuffs then switch targets, which took too long, then we had 3 (of our 6) dps die, but still made it through the fight. On 25 man this may be a lot harder to do, but if you miss an interrupt it's not the end of the world, just takes a bunch longer.

Edit: On another note, the shielding is random, we had Light->Light->Dark shield order.

Unwheel
08-26-2009, 05:34 PM
We one shot this boss in 25 (and even in our 10 man alt run), found the easiest way was to tank them back to back and just have dps go on 1 add then swap when they need to. Really dissapointed in this fight, thought it was gona be the first fight to actually require some concentration in totc.

Martie
08-26-2009, 05:42 PM
I read up on the encounter, but realized that there were a lot of unknowns, and that just explaining the basics would works best (it's important to note that this was ten man, and we had the best players in our guild there.)

So I said that there would be a black and a white buff, that you could get it from the portals, and that they'd absorbed the damage of the same color.

First pull, both me and the other tank take the buff of the same color as the valkyr - wipe.

Second pull, we mess around a bit, but we get them down eventually. We figured out on the fly what abilities there were and how to counter them. Here's what we did.

Spheres: Just run around randomly when you see them, sometimes you take some damage, sometimes you get a cool buff.
Heal: Ignore it. We ended up with most of our dps a single color, and we did enough dps for the heal to make the fight slightly longer, nothing else.
Big bomb thing: swap colors.

And that's about it. Even with the 20% extra damage they were hitting me for about 6-8k, which is peanuts to what I'm used to, and even though we lost a dps early on to something (no clue what), we could comfortably overdps the heals.

I devised a tactic for our guild to follow on our 25man run tomorrow that has all the dps take a single color, swap colors as instructed, and just burn one target. I'll use our druid tank to pick up orbs on the side that isn't being DPSed so she doesn't get the buff.

All in all, this fight had a lot of potential to be fun. It is, at least on 10man, way too easy though.

Muffin Man
08-26-2009, 07:06 PM
Looks like early release bugs can work in our favor:

Val'kyr Twins Bug Fixes | Raid | WoW Blue Tracker | World of Raids (http://www.worldofraids.com/wow-blue-tracker/us-forums/19378796625-val-kyr-twins-bug-fixes.html)

Remember normal difficulties means 10 and 25 man now =p.

I was pretty surprised how little raid damage there was... turns out it was a bug.

Sark
08-26-2009, 11:58 PM
I actually imagine the hardmode damage will be high enough that this is how it's done. Leading to some painful threat sensitivity since tanks will really be trading damage done for damage taken (you guys all wanted defensive stance! here it is!).

With the added bonus of the tanks taking the balls before the boss can get them!

Crystalhaze
08-27-2009, 12:09 AM
We had the patch implemented while we were in the encounter. All 10 of us got dc'd and were able to relog immediately. At the time, we had no clue what was going on. Later someone found that blue post. We had one real attempt before the hot fix, one wipe (cuz of dc) and a 3rd attempt and kill. Didn't notice any change.

On 10m, the only people that switched for us were dps. had 2 tanks and 2 healers, not a big deal to heal through when 1 tank and 1 healer are only ones taking damage.

Nitrous
08-28-2009, 03:12 AM
We did this last night and ten man. Here are a couple things we found out.

We tried the way that the tankspot video suggested and just found it to be too much of a hassle. It was hard for us to split the groups up evenly enough and the healers just got totally confused on picking portals.

Here is the strategy we used along with the raid make up.

Raid: 1 Holy Paly, 1 Disc Priest, 1 Resto Drood, 1 Arms Warrior, 1 Warlock, 2 Surv Hunters, 1 Blood DK, 1 Enhance Shammy, and a Frost DK Tank.

I tanked both Valkyrs and found that to be much easier and faster to down them than having 2 tanks.

What I did was picked both of them up at the start and brought them in between the 2 portals on the right side of the room. When the shields came up, it was easy for everyone to hit a portal and switch to the desired Light/Dark. They went down super quick and never got a heal off because of the extra damage we had from the extra DPS.

We found this be very easy and they went down very quickly without any surprises.

We are anxiously waiting Hard mode 10man, and we are going to attempt this same strategy in 25man this weekend(although I think we are going to have one of the DPS with a tank spec also, just in case we need another tank instead of the single tank).

Splug
08-28-2009, 11:05 AM
The changes from the hotfix have not made the encounter appreciably more difficult.

Tanks can survive an opposite-polarity vortex without any difficulty.

-Splug

breaklance
08-28-2009, 12:28 PM
I didn't switch auras on the first one because I got confused :P I wasn't supposed to be switching targets anyway though as a melee DPS.

In 10man you want everyone to switch auras for the bubble unless you're heavy on ranged DPS. They're not immune to your abilities if you have the wrong aura on, however -- you just deal less damage. So kick, pummel, etc will still work.

We ran a very heavy melee dps 10ToC and didn't need to switch at all for the sheilds, even after a melee had died(took 4 orbs of the opposite color simultaneously).

I missed my raid inv for 25man cause of stupid authenticating issues >.> but from the 10man it really didn't seem like anyone needs to switch to dps the sheild especially if your group is good about stacking the Empowering Light/Darkness. T

his may just be a difference between guilds just clearing Uld and guilds that were doing Uld Hardmodes, or 25man is very different but with multiple melee dps clocking in at 9-10k dps on 25man 6-7k on 10man for the encounter the shields seem trivial.

Hadj
08-29-2009, 04:26 PM
Ok so my next question is, has anyone gotten the shield on the same one twice in a row? Or does it always switch? I watched a few more vids on youtube, and have yet to see the same one get the shield twice in a row.....
Yeah had 2 dark shields in a row at the beginning, then 2 light vortexes,then light sheld and a light vortex again. Found it pretty easy to tank both of them alone in the middle of the arena just running to switch attunment if needed. That's in 10-man ofcourse. Will try the 25-man tommorow if we get past the champs.

Jameak
08-30-2009, 10:12 PM
This is a very simple fight in 10 man, supprisingly so as the explanation can seem quite daunting. The key points being you must break the shield and get off the interrupt everytime. We missed it a few times on our first attempt which drew the fight out a bit and eventually they enraged through eating some orbs - but then we smashed it on our second, even getting the salt n pepper achievement to boot!

We tanked the two twins each on their like coloured portal at the front. Tanks did not get attuned, only the dps did, and they swapped attunement on the eve of the AoE going off to avoid taking excessive damage, they then swapped back to their respective attunment. Tanks were just healed through as damage is rather light. We used shadow protection and fire resist aura to help mitigate some of the spell damage. We had ranged dps on one, melee dps on the other. Dps didnt go out of their way to get orbs, only block them from the boss to prevent them from being buffed.

Hard mode should be interesting.

LazarusAdam
08-31-2009, 04:04 AM
It should be interesting to see if this fight actually changes with the hot fix. Downed them with almost no difficulty.. looks like they might have an enrage timer, but need to see if that is true.

Cronaldo
08-31-2009, 05:21 AM
we one shotted him!!

Thanks Tankspot!

Predakhan
08-31-2009, 10:17 AM
This is a very simple fight in 10 man, supprisingly so as the explanation can seem quite daunting. The key points being you must break the shield and get off the interrupt everytime. We missed it a few times on our first attempt which drew the fight out a bit and eventually they enraged through eating some orbs - but then we smashed it on our second, even getting the salt n pepper achievement to boot!



This is not true at all. Obviously it depends on your level of dps but we just focused on one boss the whole (switching aura's only for vortex).

Jameak
09-01-2009, 06:02 AM
This is not true at all. Obviously it depends on your level of dps but we just focused on one boss the whole (switching aura's only for vortex).

I'm not sure how it isnt true. If your playing by the rules and not over-geared for the encounter, it certainly is 100% true, otherwise im sure anything goes and you could probably bash your keyboard with both hands and still win. It cant be denied that if you do the encounter in the manner in which it is meant (presumably on face value) to be done, its a very simple fight.

I'm sure many guilds are looking to this topic for advice on the encounter, many of which may not have the super dps that a well geared hard mode 10 or 25 man guild has, to which constructive comments and observations of this nature may help them succeed.

Cronaldo
09-01-2009, 06:55 AM
I'm sure many guilds are looking to this topic for advice on the encounter, many of which may not have the super dps that a well geared hard mode 10 or 25 man guild has, to which constructive comments and observations of this nature may help them succeed.

Indeed
agree
/clap

Chamenas
09-01-2009, 08:40 AM
I'm not sure how it isnt true. If your playing by the rules and not over-geared for the encounter, it certainly is 100% true, otherwise im sure anything goes and you could probably bash your keyboard with both hands and still win. It cant be denied that if you do the encounter in the manner in which it is meant (presumably on face value) to be done, its a very simple fight.

I'm sure many guilds are looking to this topic for advice on the encounter, many of which may not have the super dps that a well geared hard mode 10 or 25 man guild has, to which constructive comments and observations of this nature may help them succeed.

I think the point is this: You make it sound like it's a wipe if you miss 1 or 2 shields. Whereas the other poster is saying that's not true. If your dps is enough, then missing 1 or 2 shields isn't an issue. Will this be the case for all groups? No. But it at least dispels the notion that you should simply wipe it if they heal, which is about what one would gather from your post.

Jameak
09-01-2009, 09:32 AM
I put myself in the shoes of someone new to the fight and attempted to give information that may be useful to people just starting the encounter, having done it, I felt that the shield/interrupt was the most important part to get right. I accept that any experienced guild could easily catch up if they miss one or two shields, however, I am sure there are guilds out there that are walking the thin line between not enough dps and just enough dps, and missing a shield and subsequent interrupt would be a real big deal for them. If everyone new goes into the fight with the expectation that the shield must be broken, and the heal must be interrupted (as we all assume was intended to be) then they are more inclined to perform better when the time comes.

I think its also fair to say that the vast number of posts in this thread indicate how much of a push over this fight is, so the challenge (at least until hard mode) lies with the less experienced/geared guilds to which this information is more relevant (rather than a quick run down of what to do before leaping in and playing things by ear). I appologise if some of it seemed ambiguous, it was not my intention, but at the end of the day I stand by my comment, if you miss a shield and interrupt, you only make it harder on yourself so you should endeavour to prevent this. My opinion is that guilds that can catch up after missing a shield really shouldnt be missing the shield and interrupt in the first place.

Athrias
09-01-2009, 01:59 PM
After a couple of wipes to get a feel for it, I used a strat that seems to be totally off from what any of you guys are doing. We used a single pally tank with 3 healers (Pally, Disc priest, Holy priest), and had the group's OT go dps for the fight.

At the pull, the entire raid attuned to the same essence (We went with light, but it doesn't matter which you get). Upon pulling, we focused the dark twin, and stacked on top of a _dark_ portal. This way, if the Light twin casted vortex, we were all attuned and didn't have to switch targets or essences, and if the Light twin casted the heal, we were already right on top of the dark portal to make switching essences faster and the shielding twin was already at the group. The key to this is that any time you switch to the essence you're stacked on, the group moves back to the opposite type of portal at the next opportunity (not in the middle of a shield/vortex), to maintain the point of being able to switch essences rather quickly.

I would also like to note a few things:

1) In 25man or heroic mode, or if your tank isn't in enough gear to solo tank it, you can follow the same strat with two tanks.

2) This strat does mean that you will have orbs simultaneously damaging the group and giving the boss buff stacks, so be prepared for the extra healing.

3) To settle an apparent issue, I'm quite certain that my group didn't manage to break a single shield, let alone actually interrupt, but I found that our dps was still enough to keep a net loss of hp.

Feedback appreciated.

Empathic
09-02-2009, 05:51 AM
Just a note, it appears that with the introduction of Anub'arak Blizzard seems to have changed the fight to put in a raid wide AoE debuff that causes (on 10 man) 1500 damage from each boss based on their respective pools of magic. This damage can be partially resisted with auras and fully absorbed with the same type of shield. Not confirmed, but distance from the other twin may also play a part in whether the debuff is applied or not. This isn't raid breaking, as tank damage is still relatively low, but your healers should be made aware.

Chilek9
09-02-2009, 06:28 AM
I feel pretty dumb asking this, but we noticed, last night, that there was an AOE attack hitting us all in the 25 man version. It ticked every couple of seconds and became problematic in a hurry. Any info on this?

Kazeyonoma
09-02-2009, 09:18 AM
Chilek9

This was the ability that Blizzard has stated was malfunctioning the first week of the encounter.

What happens is each of the two valkyr's applies a raid wide aura debuff to anyone who is an opposing color and deals damage to them. Basically every couple of seconds the entire raid takes some damage which adds some healing stress to this fight. In 10 man last night I believe it was ticking for 1500 every 3 seconds. Just something for the healers to watch out for.

At first we though it had something to do with the light or dark attuned but we noticed either side was taking the damage regardless, they were just called something different. We also tested to see if it was because the two bosses were too close together, or if it was caused by light attuned players being next to dark attuned players (think pos/neg charges from Thaddius) but this also didn't hold true. I don't have any definite information on it yet but this is what we've discovered and we simply healed through it.

wafflecrew
09-02-2009, 12:44 PM
Took us a few attempts to do last night on 25 man mostly due to losing some dps from the new aura. on 25 regular it was ticking for about 2k, however it seems you can resist some of the damage from a pally shadow aura or a priests shadow protection buff.

Radius
09-02-2009, 02:36 PM
Does anyone see any issues with this strat?

All dps will get the dark essence and dps the light-chic

We tank both bosses near the light essence portal

Randomness every 45 seconds:
If the vortex (aoe nova) is cast by the dark-chic, all is good (cuz we have the dark essence)
If the vortex (aoe nova) is cast by the light-chic, dps click on the portal to avoid the damage
If the shield/heal on the light-chic, we are already burning down the shield
If the shield/heal on the dark-chic, the dps clicks on the portal and burns down the dark-chics shield

If in the above the dps clicks the portal and swtches essence we will drag both bosses over to the other portal to get ready if we have to change later.

Lastly, I think we need someone with the opposite essence running around absorbing all the orbs with their color so they don't hit the boss (and buff them)

It looks like anyone with an essence will be getting a dot debuff on them, so I don't think that the healers want one, since it only increases damage.

Daimon
09-03-2009, 09:23 AM
it sounds interesting, burning 1 down, the only problem i see is that too many ppl in 1 side will make the orbs dmg more, but also the raid heals easier...mmm.

Last night we had the same issue with the aura, it was not a big deal but the extra orbs they added were making us sweat.

Besides if you DPS the dark one, then you will use Light buff neglecting the light aura dmg from the other, and using Shadow Protection will reduce the shadow aura dmg, so is less dmg taken overall that way, since there is not any light protection buff from classes. I'm going to test that tonite.

Panzor
09-03-2009, 09:26 AM
It looks like anyone with an essence will be getting a dot debuff on them, so I don't think that the healers want one, since it only increases damage.
The stacking "debuff" is good for DPS and doesn't hurt your healer. When it stacks to 100 you will have a damage bonus to the opposite colored boss.

Radius
09-03-2009, 11:28 AM
The stacking "debuff" is good for DPS and doesn't hurt your healer. When it stacks to 100 you will have a damage bonus to the opposite colored boss.

I was refering to the light or dark essence from the portals. I was wrong in my point, the vortex does damage to people without an essence as well, so healers have to pick a side.

I think the problem with the strat I posted above is that everyone is grouped up, and trying to click the portal at once. My raid members weren't getting switched over fast enough because they were having problems clicking on it.

Also rereading the descriptions of the orbs from the video an opposite color orb does damage to people around you too. With more people grouped closer that means more damage going around.

Athrias
09-08-2009, 07:15 AM
Besides if you DPS the dark one, then you will use Light buff neglecting the light aura dmg from the other, and using Shadow Protection will reduce the shadow aura dmg, so is less dmg taken overall that way, since there is not any light protection buff from classes. I'm going to test that tonite.

This is not entirely true. Light damage is classified as fire based, and so a simple fire resistance aura helps reduce that a rather helpful amount.

Whatever strategy you use, I would strongly recommend that if you have a paladin of any spec, you ensure that he/she is close enough to the light boss that anyone taking that damage is under it's influence. Even better is to be positioned such that all raid member are influenced for the reason that light orbs will do less damage; this can, however, make things much more difficult for the paladin in question, if not for the entire raid.

Leeroydaman
10-04-2009, 09:56 AM
I found something interesting that happened in my guild's attempt on Twin Valkyrs. We were doing 25 man and towards 40 percent of the boss's health left, one of the tanks died. Now, this was going on during a twin's pact, so our crazy druid offtank who was tanking the one healing taunted the other boss and started tanking them both. We all called him crazy, but to our surprise, he was able to keep tanking both of them to the end when we killed the bosses. This sparked a new tanking trend in our 10 mans as now we only need 1 tank for that fight.

Heyababy
10-20-2009, 07:58 AM
Came to TankSpot looking for tanking info. Watched your video here of the twin valkyrs fight. Is this TankSpot or HeyLookAtMyCoolUISpot?

gogo_bg
11-27-2009, 04:39 AM
Can someone tell me what is the name of the addon that is on the top right cornner ( the blye bars one ) :P. It seems it keep track on players used abilityes and that is exacly what i am looking for ;}

Geluincendia
11-27-2009, 09:03 AM
The bars are Elkano's BuffBars (http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/elkbuffbars.aspx)

cerka
01-27-2010, 11:39 PM
ok so will a dk and pally beable to strangulate and arcane torrent and use mind freez and avenger sheild to interrupt

odinonehorn
01-29-2010, 11:50 AM
lore. you are my favorite. please do more vids.

phede
07-02-2010, 08:28 AM
Hi

I've a question: Should tanks change essence when vortex is casted?

Martie
07-02-2010, 08:33 AM
Hi

I've a question: Should tanks change essence when vortex is casted?
Depends on your healers and gear level, but popping a defensive cooldown should cover it.

phede
07-02-2010, 08:43 AM
Tyvm for the quick answer :)

Chamenas
10-08-2010, 05:16 PM
Depends on your healers and gear level, but popping a defensive cooldown should cover it.
As a DK, I would just AMS through it. Though any of the damage reduction CDs that other tanks have will work as well.