View Full Version : I'd like some constructive criticism please

08-15-2009, 02:57 PM

I'd like some constructive criticism on what I could change to benefit myself the most as a paladin tank. I seem to recall reading that the talent spec I had was great until I reached a certain gear level and then to change it to something else. I dont recall what that thresh-hold was nor what to change it to.

If you have time, I'd like you to look at my armory profile. Take a look at the gear I'm wearing and the talent point distribution.

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Bonechewer&n=Goldmonger)

Generally speaking I'm trying to obtain most of the T8.5 gear that's available that increases my avoidance; I'm at 100 our of 102.4 atm. I'm trying to get shield block where I can, but most of all; I'm trying to reach the 40k self buff mark. So I'd really appreciate any comments and advice on what and where my biggest upgrades would be, and or talent changes that would help.

Thanks in advance.

08-16-2009, 08:33 PM
I've added my armory link. I figured after 40 views, and no response that maybe it's because I didn't make it easy to link at.

Thanks for any comments/suggestions

I did like the suggestion I was reading in these forums to do this:

You may also wish to consider changing from {3/5 Conviction, 2/2 Persuit of Justice} to {2/2 Vindication, 1/5 Conviction, 2/2 Persuit of Justice}

I think since I dont have a warrior or any type of debuff that this would be quite useful. But -46 AP on a boss... ugh doesnt seem like much. Unless it's modified by a stat or something

08-17-2009, 02:03 AM
But -46 AP on a boss... ugh doesnt seem like much. Unless it's modified by a stat or something

Boss Attack Power works on a completely different formula to Player Attack Power. The formula is:

(DPS_from_AttackPower + Base_DPS) * Multiplier.

Base_DPS and Multiplyer are different from boss to boss, but DPS_from_AttackPower is pretty static and is effectively nullified by Vindication and Improved Demoralizing Shout. The Multiplyer value is higher for special attacks and, therefore, Vindication scales hugely with hard-hitting specials. Since you're now effectively just using (Base_DPS*Multiplyer) if you have Vindication up, you can reduce most Ulduar bosses by around 20% with certain specials such as Thorim's Unbalancing Strike cut by almost 50%.

So yeah, 46AP isn't much against a player (ie. it's useless for PvP) but due to the way mob mechanics work it's right up there with Judgements of the Just as one of your strongest mitigation talents :)

08-17-2009, 02:10 AM
As for your gear, it's mostly fine though you almost certainly want +40 Stamina on bracers instead of +12 Defense Rating. Your gem in Mark of the Relentless should probably also be a flat +30 Stam to maximise its value. As a general rule, you should stack Stamina in blue and colourless sockets, plus any piece with a weak socket bonus (less than +9 Stam in my opinion). Red sockets would use either Dodge/Stam or Agi/Stam and yellow sockets would use Def/Stam.

I know it can be a pain to stay above the Defense minimum at at times but you should be able to get a bit more EH out of your gear simply by switching your gems around to meet socket bonuses of +12 Stam and ignoring the others. You'd also gain a lot by running Naxx-10 until you get Repelling Charge to drop from Thaddius, as this is a straight upgrade to Seal of the Pantheon.

Good luck and feel free to ask if you have any more questions :)

08-17-2009, 09:39 AM
the vindication talent scales to level. At level 80 with 2 points it is a 571 AP reduction or there abouts. It is one less than warrior demo shout with 5/5 in improved shout.

08-17-2009, 06:04 PM
Hey Gold,

Spec looks fine, I wouldn’t change anything there expect maybe to put some points in Vindication. Glyph of Hammer is a bit so so imo. I wouldn’t waste a glyph slot for trash.

A couple of things to consider in your gear. Firstly the socket bonus in the head is probably worth chasing, if you put an Eye of Zul in there you would lose 3stam and gain 10 Defense.

Secondly you have gemmed for Parry in the your shoes and belt. That probably really isnt worth it, even after the changes it gets hit pretty hard by DR so it doesn’t stack well.

Finally Lifeward really isn’t worth it on the weapon, if you want an EH enchant go for Blood Draining. If not go for Accuracy, agility or Mongoose.

08-18-2009, 05:43 AM
Thanks for the replies.

There's one or two more pieces that I'm trying to go for from emblems of conquest, and then I'm going to try juggling around my gems/enchants a bit so that I can max my avoidance and health. SO far I manage to get 34-35k self buff, but as a result my defense falls to 538. Now that's prefectly fine to go nuts in heroics; and last night on Lord Jaraxxus I noticed it mid fight that I had my wrong trinket in; thankfully I did not get slapped by the RNG. My ultimate goal is to be able to reach 40k self buffed at this point in time, last night I finally hit a new benchmark for myself as in full raid buffs I was sitting at 41k which I never thought I'd be able to do.

I will take the time to look at regeming and changing a glyph as recommended, I already changed my talent to go and get vindication. And yes; it is much more effective than a lousey "-46", if I'm not mistaken it reduces AP by -536 as I saw in the talent window. I read somewhere that it can reduce specific boss damage output by about 20%, and that's a no brainer for me since I dont have a warrior applying demo shout for our raids.

I am wondering about the glyph of salvation. I find that my threat sky rockets over everyone else in a raid, and I'm thinking that it could be pretty useful to reduce damage by 20% for 10 seconds while losing only 20% threat (since salvation is 2% per second for 10seconds) Obviously this would only be used when I know and see my threat is able to take a 20% hit like this. What do you think about this ?

08-18-2009, 05:53 AM
Since you have the Resilliance enchant on your shoulders, you are uncrittable even when your character sheet shows 536 Defense so don't worry too much about dipping beneath.

Having said that, Defense is superior to Resilliance in the sense that it gives you avoidance and that Ardent Defender is stronger when you're above 689 Rating (540 Skill), so keeping it above 540 will still enhance your TTL.

But the short version is don't worry about being slapped about by the RNG for going below 540 all the while you have the Resilliance enchant on your shoulders - there's still no way for you to eat a crit if you've above 536 with 15 Resilliance :)

08-19-2009, 09:02 PM
Well that's extremly comforting to know !

So, what about the glyph of salvation? Anyone have some positive experience with using it ?

I know paladins just got a hit to their TPS (or are about to) but I cant quite say how bad it was (or will be).

I am trying to find a suitable replacement for the Hammer of Righteous glyph though.

08-21-2009, 06:51 AM
I'd go with either Judgement for threat or Righteous Defense for guaranteed taunts, depending on your preference. Hammer of the Righteous is probably best if you're usually on add pickup rather than the boss (Rubbles on Kologarn, Razorscale trash, Thorim's Arena, etc) but for Maintanking one of the other two really. I personally go with Glyph of Judgement.

08-21-2009, 07:00 AM
So, what about the glyph of salvation? Anyone have some positive experience with using it ?

I've been using Glyphed HoSalv since 3.1. Lots of places where it is useful. It's a great mini-CD.

08-21-2009, 11:47 AM
It would help you a lot to train your Inscription to 400 for the awesome shoulder enchant. You'd loose some stamina, but stamina isn't everything.

08-24-2009, 10:06 AM
Sorry for bumping this, but as was talked about in this post; my weapon enchant is not really something useful for tanking I found out AFTER putting it on (heals on hit sounded good).

So I'm going to try to go for the following which I ripped from another post:

Threat = Accuracy
EH = Blood Draining
Avoidance = Blade Ward

I'll be going wit Accuracy since out of all the issues about tanking I sometimes see the threat from some 5k+ dps getting close (bloody warlocks!). I'm going to see how much accuracy increase my TPS.

Actually - since posting this I do have one question; TPS. Why does it seem to vary as much as it does and is this normal ? On some encounters I see 3-5k TPS, on others I see 5-8k and I've even seen about 11-12k TPS on some bosses in 25 man content.

I'm going to assume that BL, Avenging Wrath all has factors to play in it. Would a Test dummy be a good target to see my constant TPS without buffs or are there some known values for certain gear levels that you know I should be pulling ?